Pelicans looking to get a top 5 pick?

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

I wouldn't worry about AD resigning, idk if any player has ever turned down a 5 year max contract, regardless of who he plays for.

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We have a team option in 15/16 and then he's restricted in 16/17... so he's not going anywhere for quite a while.

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

Everyone thought Jrue was untouchable, but we got him.

I still wonder if there is a chance we could do a sign and trade for parsons or gordon hayward, like ryno and a 1st, you never know, then sign blatche.

tyreke
jrue
parsons/hayward
ad
blatche

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Dell's proven he's good at prying away RFA's in sign and trades. I could see something like this happening.

I think SF is more important than C for this team. We need a SF that has great shooting and we need to improve our 3 point shooting this year. My number 1 guy would be to get Gordon Hayward. He's perfect for our team.


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Before you criticize what I'm bout to suggest, click the link and read below:
http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/celti...espnapi_public

If Dell loves Vonleh, sees him on par with Embiid, Wiggins, and Parker, and views him as the perfect fit next to AD...

If Vonleh is available at 6, would the Pelicans trade Ryno/Rivers for 6/Wallace? Would the Celtics do that?

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

Before you criticize what I'm bout to suggest, click the link and read below:
http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/celti...espnapi_public

If Dell loves Vonleh, sees him on par with Embiid, Wiggins, and Parker, and views him as the perfect fit next to AD...

If Vonleh is available at 6, would the Pelicans trade Ryno/Rivers for 6/Wallace? Would the Celtics do that?

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Think Ryno's a bad fit for them.

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Originally Posted by Pelicantoo

We have a team option in 15/16 and then he's restricted in 16/17... so he's not going anywhere for quite a while.

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Agreed, and when he is restricted we are the only team who can offer the 5 year max, other teams can only offer 4, but even if for some some out of this world reason he did sign another teams offer sheet we would match. he will be here for another 7 years. :)

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

Before you criticize what I'm bout to suggest, click the link and read below:
http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/celti...espnapi_public

If Dell loves Vonleh, sees him on par with Embiid, Wiggins, and Parker, and views him as the perfect fit next to AD...

If Vonleh is available at 6, would the Pelicans trade Ryno/Rivers for 6/Wallace? Would the Celtics do that?

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IDK if i would even do that if they said yes. Wallace is terrible. You would have a combined 25 million tied up in eric gordon and gerald wallace. IS Vonleh, a player who could bust like any, worth that? IDK.

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Originally Posted by Pelicantoo

Dell's proven he's good at prying away RFA's in sign and trades. I could see something like this happening.

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I can hope, but we don't have the salary to make it happen, unless dell could trade gordon for an expiring, which won't happen. We would have to trade ryno for an expiring to free up salary. But if it meant getting parsons or hayward, I would do it, I think either of those 2 guys would be more beneficial to this team than ryno. Then u get a cheap center like blatche to bang down low and let AD stay at his natural PF position.

ya know let's say we simply wanted to get in the draft for a role player or a prospect at a needed position

example: many people have mentioned Patrick Young. I agreed he could be a miscast bruiser but I doubt it and it's a gamble

one player that wouldn't be a gamble in my opinion is Jerell Stokes. Most years he would be in the late first like Dejuan Blair was.

but this guy is kinda like Blair but better IMO he is the second rated center in the draft in regards to efficiency.

2nd best in assists
3rd in FT attempts
1st in offensive rebounds
3rd in points per 40

6'8" 265 lbs, he would undoubtedly played minutes at C with last year's squa(7'2" reach).
and he's a 2nd rounder


stats from:
http://www.draftexpress.com/article/...ter-Crop-4611/

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

I can hope, but we don't have the salary to make it happen, unless dell could trade gordon for an expiring, which won't happen. We would have to trade ryno for an expiring to free up salary. But if it meant getting parsons or hayward, I would do it, I think either of those 2 guys would be more beneficial to this team than ryno. Then u get a cheap center like blatche to bang down low and let AD stay at his natural PF position.

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I don't think that's the case. I think we have around 6 million in cap space floating around, maybe 7 with Morrow Opting out. Ryno makes a little over 8 million, so in a sign and trade for around 14 million, we'd theoretically have the cap space to do it? What am I missing?

Also, If they took rivers with them for some nominal asset it would clear another 2.3 mil. Then, once you're over the cap, you can use the MLE on someone. I could be wrong here.

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Originally Posted by Pelicantoo

I don't think that's the case. I think we have around 6 million in cap space floating around, maybe 7 with Morrow Opting out. Ryno makes a little over 8 million, so in a sign and trade for around 14 million, we'd theoretically have the cap space to do it? What am I missing?

Also, If they took rivers with them for some nominal asset it would clear another 2.3 mil. Then, once you're over the cap, you can use the MLE on someone. I could be wrong here.

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Oh ya totally, kid you trade ryno u free up 8 million, that is what I was saying that we would have to do. Thats why i wanted to trade ryno for hayward and use MLE on blatche.

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

Everyone thought Jrue was untouchable, but we got him.

I still wonder if there is a chance we could do a sign and trade for parsons or gordon hayward, like ryno and a 1st, you never know, then sign blatche.

tyreke
jrue
parsons/hayward
ad
blatche

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That's actually my team in my 2k association ( with Parsons at the three) . Fun team to play with.


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Originally Posted by Sleeper

That's actually my team in my 2k association ( with Parsons at the three) . Fun team to play with.


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ha i might have to try that! I would love it in real life as well.

You run tyreke at pg and jrue at sg?

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

ha i might have to try that! I would love it in real life as well.

You run tyreke at pg and jrue at sg?

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I had tyreke in my 2k13 association last year before we signed him, so maybe these moves will come to life also haha.

Nah i run reke at the 2. I might try switching him to PG though.


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Man, is it a sport to trade ryno for anything, from crap to love? Trade him for this! Trade him for that! Jeez.

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Originally Posted by Sleeper

I had tyreke in my 2k13 association last year before we signed him, so maybe these moves will come to life also haha.

Nah i run reke at the 2. I might try switching him to PG though.


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I run tyreke at the 1 and jrue at the 2 when i play online, this way if i drive and get stopped i can swing it out to jrue for 3, if it's jrue and i drive and get stopped if tyreke isn't cutting to the basket he doesn't offer too much from 3. Try it out. For defensive match ups u can still make jrue guard the opponents PG. I just put him on which ever player is better. For example when i play the clippers i put jrue on cpm, when i play the rockets i put him on harden.

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

I run tyreke at the 1 and jrue at the 2 when i play online, this way if i drive and get stopped i can swing it out to jrue for 3, if it's jrue and i drive and get stopped if tyreke isn't cutting to the basket he doesn't offer too much from 3. Try it out. For defensive match ups u can still make jrue guard the opponents PG. I just put him on which ever player is better. For example when i play the clippers i put jrue on cpm, when i play the rockets i put him on harden.

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That happens to me all the time so it makes sense. I did send Tyreke to shooting camp in the offseason, so he's a little better at the three now but i'll still try it out. Thanks.


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I saw one possibility were the Pelicans could have this lineup:

Jrue Hoilday
Tyreke Evans
Dario Saric
Anthony Davis
Greg Monroe

Only guy you can't move is Davis, he is your franchise player. You don't want to move Jrue either because he is a top 10 pg on an amazing contract. That said, if the deal comes down where you can get a top 3 pick in a trade that includes a combo of Jrue/Gordon/Ryno/Rivers/anyone not named Anthony Davis, and you believe this new guy will be a top 3-15 player in the league, do it.

http://m.wdsu.com/news/offside-blog-...icans/26152242

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

I think you think this is true. About Dell's philosophy. But we really have no evidence that this is always true.

Think about it this way, we know for a fact that Dell will trade a draft choice for a young vet if there isn't a rookie he really like and believes in. We don't know what Dell will do of there is a rookie he really likes that he thinks is an ideal long term roster fit.

Last years draft was historically bad. We can't use the Jrue trade as evidence and say that's what Dell's philosophy always is.

If Dell was in a position to draft Wiggins, Embiid, or Parker and put them next to Davis, we'd expect him to draft a rookie. Maybe there is a player, Vonleh perhaps, that Dell really, really likes.

Like I said, we have no evidence that Dell is anti-rookie. Only the single sample of the Jrue trade

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It has nothing to do with being anti-rookie. It has more to do with the established timeline that both he and Monty have said this team is on. People love rookies, but maybe one or two play winning basketball their first year. And maybe one or two more the year after that. A guy like Vonleh will be, at best a 20 mpg guy his first year and will struggle mightily at times. Embiid may not play.

The objective is clearly playoffs next year, so if Dell (and Monty) sign off on trading a core piece for a guy who will give them much less next season, it would truly shock me, and I dont get shocked by much.

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

Oh ya totally, kid you trade ryno u free up 8 million, that is what I was saying that we would have to do. Thats why i wanted to trade ryno for hayward and use MLE on blatche.

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I know I've told you this before, I'm certain others have as well. . .but here I am again saying it.

You cannot use cap space and the MLE.

On a side note: this thread makes me sad with the suggested trades.

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Originally Posted by smcgull

I saw one possibility were the Pelicans could have this lineup:

Jrue Hoilday
Tyreke Evans
Dario Saric
Anthony Davis
Greg Monroe

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I wonder if bulls would give up both 1st rounders if someone took boozer off their hands or would that be too much. I could live with boozer playing center for a year if we could trade Gordon and a first rounder to someone. Maybe even add a protected future with it. Keep the one pick this year for a SF.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

It has nothing to do with being anti-rookie. It has more to do with the established timeline that both he and Monty have said this team is on. People love rookies, but maybe one or two play winning basketball their first year. And maybe one or two more the year after that. A guy like Vonleh will be, at best a 20 mpg guy his first year and will struggle mightily at times. Embiid may not play.

The objective is clearly playoffs next year, so if Dell (and Monty) sign off on trading a core piece for a guy who will give them much less next season, it would truly shock me, and I dont get shocked by much.

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Isn't it reasonable though to say that next year isn't what this tram's ultimate goals are about?

If Dell can pull off something that gets him a critical piece of our core during our "championship" years, it's worth it. Maybe he thinks he can move Ryno or Tyreke and replace 85% of their production next year with other off season roster moves. In that case you go get your future, and don't sacrifice that because you think you can compete for an 8th seed next season.

Whether we're a playoff contender or not in 14, will be IMO entirely determined by the progression of Davis and Holiday, how good our bench is, and how well we play defense.

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

Isn't it reasonable though to say that next year isn't what this tram's ultimate goals are about?

If Dell can pull off something that gets him a critical piece of our core during our "championship" years, it's worth it. Maybe he thinks he can move Ryno or Tyreke and replace 85% of their production next year with other off season roster moves. In that case you go get your future, and don't sacrifice that because you think you can compete for an 8th seed next season.

Whether we're a playoff contender or not in 14, will be IMO entirely determined by the progression of Davis and Holiday, how good our bench is, and how well we play defense.

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This might be a reasonable objective philosophy to have. It is not Dell and Monty's philosophy, though. So we can all ponder about what we would do, but I personally find it more productive to try to think about what Dell will do. Dell will not take a step back for the next 2-3 years even if it might mean taking two steps forward in years 4-6. He just won't IMO

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

This might be a reasonable objective philosophy to have. It is not Dell and Monty's philosophy, though. So we can all ponder about what we would do, but I personally find it more productive to try to think about what Dell will do. Dell will not take a step back for the next 2-3 years even if it might mean taking two steps forward in years 4-6. He just won't IMO

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If Dell is trying to get a top 5 pick and move a core piece in the process then it is probably to secure another young veteran that he just has to have. That is what we should focus on in this thread if anything at all.

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Originally Posted by PelicanFever

If Dell is trying to get a top 5 pick and move a core piece in the process then it is probably to secure another young veteran that he just has to have. That is what we should focus on in this thread if anything at all.

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Exactly. If it is true, which I don't believe it is, then Team X said, "Well if you want Y player, I need a top 5 pick."

Then, Dell got to work. Its not to take Vonleh or Embiid so that those guys can blossom in 2018, long after he has been fired.

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If Dell is trying to get a top 5 pick and move a core piece in the process then it is probably to secure another young veteran that he just has to have

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I only see 2 moves that make sense in targeting a top 5 pick. One is going after Kevin Love, it's always been presumed that all of this asset acquisition was a path to a bigger star player. Two would be a bluff to make someone else take a deal Demps is pushing. I found the phrasing of one of the accounts from another GM interesting, something along the lines of "The Pelicans are trying to jump up ahead of us to get guys we're targeting. Basically "You don't want to trade Gordon for Jeff Green, Danny? Good luck with Embid slipping to you."

Darkhorse - What if NJ said they would do Lopez for Gordon if we got them a high pick? Or Memphis wants to totally rebuild and says the same about Gasol, or Atlanta about Horford?

Could be some team out there willing to blow it up like Philly did last year that we don't even suspect.

If we have to give away ryno and gordon to take on lopez or horford i personally am not sure i would do it (especially in the first case). Gasol though, that's a whole different matter. I'd still like to keep ryno but yeah, can't have everything

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Darkhorse - What if NJ said they would do Lopez for Gordon if we got them a high pick? Or Memphis wants to totally rebuild and says the same about Gasol, or Atlanta about Horford?

Could be some team out there willing to blow it up like Philly did last year that we don't even suspect.

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Thats crazy I looked up specifics on Horford today because I was thinking the same thing.

Tyreke
Jrue
Tucker
AD
Horford

I can dig it.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Darkhorse - What if NJ said they would do Lopez for Gordon if we got them a high pick? Or Memphis wants to totally rebuild and says the same about Gasol, or Atlanta about Horford?

Could be some team out there willing to blow it up like Philly did last year that we don't even suspect.

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Offloading Gordon, and a pick for an already established center would be great. Although I'm not sure which I'd choose from those 3 options. Lopez is great but what's his injury history like? i know he was out for most of this past season. Same for Horford, but isn't he also the older of the 3? Gasol I think might be my first choice but I'm not 100% sure. But of the 3 teams, Nets, Hawks, and Grizzlies... Which could use an expensive SG? Surely not the Nets because they got Joe Johnson. I'd think the Hawks would be fine since they got that Lou guy. So... damn I'm leaning toward the grizzlies again?

I dunno. I'd say of those 3 in that hypothetical situation, Gasol is most likely option.

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

Thats crazy I looked up specifics on Horford today because I was thinking the same thing.

Tyreke
Jrue
Tucker
AD
Horford

I can dig it.

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we would likely be losing holiday in order to get a top pick

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Originally Posted by PelicanFever

we would likely be losing holiday in order to get a top pick

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Or Reke.

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Originally Posted by PelicanFever

we would likely be losing holiday in order to get a top pick

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Maybe, but I think Dell gave up too much to get him, he would go another route, maybe packaging ryno and a future first or something of that matter.

presuming I would remain healthy, I would love to obtain the rights to re-use all the wasted breath contained on this thread..... no matter what happens, there has been an abundance of it....

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Originally Posted by JunkHead

Offloading Gordon, and a pick for an already established center would be great. Although I'm not sure which I'd choose from those 3 options. Lopez is great but what's his injury history like? i know he was out for most of this past season. Same for Horford, but isn't he also the older of the 3? Gasol I think might be my first choice but I'm not 100% sure. But of the 3 teams, Nets, Hawks, and Grizzlies... Which could use an expensive SG? Surely not the Nets because they got Joe Johnson. I'd think the Hawks would be fine since they got that Lou guy. So... damn I'm leaning toward the grizzlies again?

I dunno. I'd say of those 3 in that hypothetical situation, Gasol is most likely option.

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After thinking about this for a few more minutes, I'd choose Gasol in this scenario. Memphis is in our division. Get gasol out of the picture and on this team and it will improve our record even more in theory. And yes, I quoted myself. I can do that. I'm an adult.

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Originally Posted by JunkHead

After thinking about this for a few more minutes, I'd choose Gasol in this scenario. Memphis is in our division. Get gasol out of the picture and on this team and it will improve our record even more in theory. And yes, I quoted myself. I can do that. I'm an adult.

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Gasol would be a perfect fit next to AD, they compliment each other so well

Gasol is a goliath, he's the 2nd best defensive center in the league IMO after Noah, he can bang, has low post offense and defense. Would love to have him.

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Originally Posted by ramsters60

presuming I would remain healthy, I would love to obtain the rights to re-use all the wasted breath contained on this thread..... no matter what happens, there has been an abundance of it....

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not really wasted breath. More like wasted.... finger pulses?

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

not really wasted breath. More like wasted.... finger pulses?

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Was thinking the same thing.

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

Gasol would be a perfect fit next to AD, they compliment each other so well

Gasol is a goliath, he's the 2nd best defensive center in the league IMO after Noah, he can bang, has low post offense and defense. Would love to have him.

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And removing him from a team we have to play 4 times a year doesn't help either.:P

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

not really wasted breath. More like wasted.... finger pulses?

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One man's wasted finger pulses are another man's finger exercise.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

This might be a reasonable objective philosophy to have. It is not Dell and Monty's philosophy, though. So we can all ponder about what we would do, but I personally find it more productive to try to think about what Dell will do. Dell will not take a step back for the next 2-3 years even if it might mean taking two steps forward in years 4-6. He just won't IMO

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Maybe Dell doesn't view trading his backup PF (coming off a 22 game season) and either his overpriced SG, or his SG that clashed with his coach at times, as taking as significant a step backwards as you do.

If he can also get a SF and a C through additional offseason moves, say Hawes and Dunleavy, maybe he's thinking he can walk and chew gum; fill needs to make the team better next season, while also getting an ideal pairing in the front court for the next 15 years.

It doesn't have to be one or the other. It can be both at the same time. Dell, Monty, Loomis, and Benson realize this teams championship window is 3 years from now, not any sooner.

So long as trading assets we currently have doesn't halt or reverse progression, I think they'll make moves that are in the best long term strategic interests the team.

Memphis is keeping Randolph and Gasol and retooling, not rebuilding. We have a better chance of getting the #1 pick from Cleveland and drafting Jabari Parker, than getting the best player from our division rival!

If Dell thinks that guys like Hawes or Dunleavy can move the needle at a similar level as any of the core 4, then put me on the Fire Dell train.

And I think we have totally different ideas about how patient our coaches and front office are. You want to be a champion in 3 years, you better get into the playoffs ASAP, because history says you have to go through a few years of trials and tribulations.

Again, I am not saying the philosophy of what you are proposing is wrong objectively. I am saying that Dell does not see it that way, and is not going to take a step back with his job on the line. For better or worse.

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

Maybe Dell doesn't view trading his backup PF (coming off a 22 game season) and either his overpriced SG, or his SG that clashed with his coach at times, as taking as significant a step backwards as you do.

If he can also get a SF and a C through additional offseason moves, say Hawes and Dunleavy, maybe he's thinking he can walk and chew gum; fill needs to make the team better next season, while also getting an ideal pairing in the front court for the next 15 years.

It doesn't have to be one or the other. It can be both at the same time. Dell, Monty, Loomis, and Benson realize this teams championship window is 3 years from now, not any sooner.

So long as trading assets we currently have doesn't halt or reverse progression, I think they'll make moves that are in the best long term strategic interests the team.

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All good points I would remove Benson's name from that list. Not sure he understands that we should be setting up for the future. Of course at his age I could understand why he wouldn't want to.

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Originally Posted by JunkHead

And removing him from a team we have to play 4 times a year doesn't help either.:P

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Another great point!

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

Memphis is keeping Randolph and Gasol and retooling, not rebuilding. We have a better chance of getting the #1 pick from Cleveland and drafting Jabari Parker, than getting the best player from our division rival!

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Why? Because that is what they said in the media, so there is no chance? Wouldn't a smart FO see that they have kind of hit a wall and at least think about selling at peak value?

Likely? No. But its not beyond reason.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

If Dell thinks that guys like Hawes or Dunleavy can move the needle at a similar level as any of the core 4, then put me on the Fire Dell train.

And I think we have totally different ideas about how patient our coaches and front office are. You want to be a champion in 3 years, you better get into the playoffs ASAP, because history says you have to go through a few years of trials and tribulations.

Again, I am not saying the philosophy of what you are proposing is wrong objectively. I am saying that Dell does not see it that way, and is not going to take a step back with his job on the line. For better or worse.

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You confuse me sometimes with your logic. Anderson as a member of this core is so valuable it should be insanely obvious we can't just trade him yet you don't think he'll command big dollars on his next deal.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

You confuse me sometimes with your logic. Anderson as a member of this core is so valuable it should be insanely obvious we can't just trade him yet you don't think he'll command big dollars on his next deal.

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First of all, I am trying to think like Dell. And yes, Ryno helps this team far more than any rookie would over the next 2-3 years. Years 4-10, that rookie could help more, but there is no universe in which (if all are healthy) that a guy like Vonleh helps your team win more games than Ryno this year.

And specialty players just don't get huge contracts. I mean, Ginobli is probably a top 10-12 SG of all time, but because he was never viewed as a pure starting 2, he never got a max type contract.

Anderson is a guy who needs to be in a particular situation to have his max value for a team. You gotta put him in a drive and kick or post and kick offense with a rim protector behind him. Conventional players have perceived value amongst all 29 teams, so the market escalates.

The issue here is Dell's job security or lack thereof. Personally, I would move Gordon and Ryno to go get Embiid, or at least consider it. But if we step outside of ourselves and think like Dell, I don't know what evidence we can possibly point to that would suggest he would go that route.