November 25th - New Orleans Pelicans @ Utah Jazz - 9-7

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Originally Posted by donato

Did anyone actually suggest we trade BI for LaVine?

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I would rather five away Ingram for nothing then trade him for LaVine.

I was BI hater, still am, but he showed a lot of improvement in shot selection last 6-7 games. I just want to see him keep it for longer time instead of going back to Demar Derozoan type of shots again.

Look at that selfish, stat hunting ************** smdh

Yikes!! Lotta potential assists on this screen. pic.twitter.com/AkVBm0mUAw

— Mike Cyprien (@CoachCyp_NOLA) November 26, 2023

Out of the 17 games that had a player achieve 21+ potential assists this month, only 3 of them resulted in <10 assists.

Chris Paul 23 potential vs 8 assists (game won)
Lamelo Ball 27 potential vs 6 assists (game won)
Brandon Ingram 21 potential vs 8 assists (game lost)

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Originally Posted by neworleanshoo

Saying the loss is "inexcusable" - while acknowledging several very reasonable and relevant excuses - is puzzling. Yes, they were without 2 top scorers; we were also without Zion, CJ, Trey, and Matt on a west-coast BTB which clearly affected us in the 4th.

I agree it was still a bad loss for many reasons (one being settling for a 3 from Dyson at the end.. we had to find Jordan or BI there, or just drive the paint earlier), but "inexcusable" it wasn't.

I also agree it's puzzling to rest Zion but play BI for nearly 40 minutes. (To me, Ingram is the one we should be more careful with to begin with).

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Why?

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Originally Posted by As I See It

Sidebar: Zeller's stats, in limited minutes, are quite impressive.

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So, is passing to a wide open Dyson Daniels considered a “potential assist”? If so, please don’t bother me with this ridiculous stat.

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Originally Posted by Freyfamilyreuni

So, is passing to a wide open Dyson Daniels considered a “potential assist”? If so, please don’t bother me with this ridiculous stat.

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Any idea how silly you are making yourself look. Just say it....

"I will take every opportunity to point out flaws in BI's game; even if I have to make shiot up."

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Originally Posted by As I See It

Any idea how silly you are making yourself look. Just say it....

"I will take every opportunity to point out flaws in BI's game; even if I have to make shiot up."

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Sigh. There is a reason why you can’t just look at statistics (especially these type of stats) and decide if someone had a good game or a bad game. You have to look at how these “stats” were generated.

So, early in the game, passing the ball to an open Dyson Daniels with plenty of time on the shot clock is a good basketball play. Late in the game, passing the ball to a wide open Dyson Daniels with little time on the shot clock, forcing a guy who has bricked every outside shot he took into taking an outside shot is a bad basketball play. If both of these generate the same stat, then that is a worthless statistic. And the simple fact is this stat would have been generated with help from the opposing team who was inviting us to pass the ball to Dyson Daniels because they knew he wouldn’t hit the shot.

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Originally Posted by Freyfamilyreuni

Sigh. There is a reason why you can’t just look at statistics (especially these type of stats) and decide if someone had a good game or a bad game. You have to look at how these “stats” were generated.

So, early in the game, passing the ball to an open Dyson Daniels with plenty of time on the shot clock is a good basketball play. Late in the game, passing the ball to a wide open Dyson Daniels with little time on the shot clock, forcing a guy who has bricked every outside shot he took into taking an outside shot is a bad basketball play. If both of these generate the same stat, then that is a worthless statistic. And the simple fact is this stat would have been generated with help from the opposing team who was inviting us to pass the ball to Dyson Daniels because they knew he wouldn’t hit the shot.

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i understand what you are saying........i said in the game thread that i dont like that they put dyson in those positions where he has to shoot a last min/game winning shot......ingram should have shot the 3 instead of passing to dyson....

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Originally Posted by 6warddude

i understand what you are saying........i said in the game thread that i dont like that they put dyson in those positions where he has to shoot a last min/game winning shot......ingram should have shot the 3 instead of passing to dyson....

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Apparently the NBA defines a potential assist as a pass where the recipient takes a shot without dribbling the ball more than once. So technically, if you had Cody Zeller wide open outside the three point line and kept passing him the ball for three point shots that had no chance of going in, each of those would be potential assists. So it’s not exactly a good statistic to measure whether someone had a good or even unselfish game.
After all, I can always pass the ball to someone at the end of the shot clock who has to take a bad shot. And even if my motivation was to avoid taking the bad shot myself, that would still be a potential assist.

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Originally Posted by Freyfamilyreuni

Apparently the NBA defines a potential assist as a pass where the recipient takes a shot without dribbling the ball more than once. So technically, if you had Cody Zeller wide open outside the three point line and kept passing him the ball for three point shots that had no chance of going in, each of those would be potential assists. So it’s not exactly a good statistic to measure whether someone had a good or even unselfish game.
After all, I can always pass the ball to someone at the end of the shot clock who has to take a bad shot. And even if my motivation was to avoid taking the bad shot myself, that would still be a potential assist.

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It's tricky with stats, because there are a lot of them which imply things, very few that outright say things, and they lack context. I do think that generally speaking, potential assists are a decent way of eyeballing something - if you watch a game and think ''wow, X guy is generating a lot of good looks'' the odds are that the potential assists number will agree, but as you say, it can also be misleading.

Another statistic that I've seen used to try and work out if someone is ball hog or not is passes received VS passes made. I think that can be a helpful metric (to give an extremely hyperbolic example, if someone receives 100 passes in a game and makes 0, that guy is a black hole by definition) but again, it's kind of incomplete because it can give the impression that guys who are exclusively play finishers (run and jump bigs, for example) are selfish which isn't really the case, among other reasons.

A lot of tracking statistics are, I think, more helpful to double check your eye than to use as metrics in and of themselves; if you think you see something, check the numbers and maybe surprise yourself or be confirmed, rather than just looking at those numbers in isolation as ''proof'' of a claim.

Just for reference, over the last 7 games (in which we are 5-2) the following players have passed more times per game than they have received the ball:

- Dyson (+2.5 more made than received)
- Jonas (+9.8)
- Herb (+4.5)
- Naji (+1.5)
- Matt Ryan (+0.3)
- Nance (+6.0)
- Cody Zeller (+5.5)
- JRE (+3.2)

The following have received more passes than made:

- Ingram (+16.6 more passes received than made per game)
- Zion (+8.6)
- Hawkins (+2.4)
- Jose (+3.8)

Ingram is the only player on the team who receives more than 60 passes a game (60.7). Second most is Dyson (49.4).

Ingram also has the longest average possession time on the team (4.4 seconds per touch). Second most is Zion (3.9).

Alvarado currently has the most dribbles per possession during the 5-2 stretch, at 4.88. Second most is Zion at 3.16 - Ingram's third in this stat, at 3.09.

Zion leads the team in points per touch (.399), with Ingram second (.378).

Jonas leads the team in paint touches (6.9) with Zion second (4.2).

Zion and Nance are tied at points per paint touch (1.33), with Jonas second (1.04).

All of these numbers only apply to games played since November 13th, they're all taken from the NBA website, and it's worth noting that obviously not everyone has played the same number of games here. Ingram has played all 7, for example, Zion has played 5, and Larry only 3, for example.

Just interesting numbers imo.