March 29th - New Orleans Pelicans @ Boston Celtics - 20-25

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03-30-2021, 11:22 AM
JJackisangry

The thing I enjoyed most about BI’s shot last night was where it was in the shot clock. ‘I’ll let the play develop, okay it broke down- let me create some space and get the shot off before the clock expires.’ I’m perfectly fine with BI taking difficult shots if it’s not right at the beginning of the shot clock. Make the defense work a bit first, and if route 1 isn’t a success- time for you to shine. A lot of times we get caught in iso and the defense can stay compact through the entire play. Boston was scrambling and BI took advantage
03-30-2021, 11:30 AM
13 - 3

Quote:

Originally Posted by As I See It

I hope it helps you as I know you think he is a "downgrade from Gentry" (your words, not mine).

I agree. Nothing like hiring and old retread to develop young talent and jam Eric Bledsoe ineptness down our throats. SVG is still a downgrade from Gentry. Maybe SVG is here on borrowed time till Griffin finds want he wants? Who knows? Also never sign a person named Eric again.
03-30-2021, 11:34 AM
Taker597

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJackisangry

The thing I enjoyed most about BI’s shot last night was where it was in the shot clock. ‘I’ll let the play develop, okay it broke down- let me create some space and get the shot off before the clock expires.’ I’m perfectly fine with BI taking difficult shots if it’s not right at the beginning of the shot clock. Make the defense work a bit first, and if route 1 isn’t a success- time for you to shine. A lot of times we get caught in iso and the defense can stay compact through the entire play. Boston was scrambling and BI took advantage

And a few other times, he got into a jam. He mad the right decision with an excellent pass to a wide open man.

I'm all for being tough on a player when he struggles, but gotta have that same energy when he does well.
03-30-2021, 11:43 AM
JJackisangry

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taker597

And a few other times, he got into a jam. He mad the right decision with an excellent pass to a wide open man.

I'm all for being tough on a player when he struggles, but gotta have that same energy when he does well.

Agreed. You can tell he was much more aware of the traps and doubles tonight too. Even when he did get caught, he found a way to use his length and pass it over the top.
03-30-2021, 04:10 PM
Creative

Finally We learn how to close out games... This is quite optimistic... Nice Win!
03-30-2021, 05:01 PM
PolishFan

Great game! I really like Daniels? sense of humor:) I like when he talks like Avery Johnson and when he makes the roadrunner sounds when Kira shows his speed. He really showed it when he got to a loose ball when he wasn?t the closest player to it. Also Ingram showed a lot resilience in this game especially that he kept being fouled and the refs didn?t want to call anything
03-30-2021, 05:39 PM
luckyman

Quote:

Originally Posted by PolishFan

Great game! I really like Daniels? sense of humor:) I like when he talks like Avery Johnson and when he makes the roadrunner sounds when Kira shows his speed. He really showed it when he got to a loose ball when he wasn?t the closest player to it. Also Ingram showed a lot resilience in this game especially that he kept being fouled and the refs didn?t want to call anything

I just wish AD would tone down his words per minute. He is often cutting off Joel to rush in and make a point. Let Joel finish his sentence then jump in.

Otherwise, AD has been building a nice reputation in media circles and has his own show on Sirius radio.
03-30-2021, 05:48 PM
PolishFan

Quote:

Originally Posted by luckyman

I just wish AD would tone down his words per minute. He is often cutting off Joel to rush in and make a point. Let Joel finish his sentence then jump in.

Otherwise, AD has been building a nice reputation in media circles and has his own show on Sirius radio.

I agree that he often gets too intense also with that power ball lottery but in general Pels commentary is just so much better than any National coverage
03-30-2021, 05:50 PM
PolishFan

It has been mentioned and I also wanted to say that SVG doesn’t get enough credit for the development of our young guys. I like his rotations more too. I just hope he doesn’t bench NAW when Lonzo comes back
03-30-2021, 07:12 PM
6warddude

Quote:

Originally Posted by PolishFan

It has been mentioned and I also wanted to say that SVG doesn’t get enough credit for the development of our young guys. I like his rotations more too. I just hope he doesn’t bench NAW when Lonzo comes back

i think he will bench NAW when lonzo come back.....

i think lonzo and NAW are a better back court defensively and maybe offensively too and you think he would start those two but stan may go with you dont loose your job due to injury or some weak out like that to justify bledsoe and lonzo starting.....who knows,,stan may man up and start lonzo and NAW and dont care how bledsoe feels about it....
03-31-2021, 06:50 AM
luckyman

Just thought I'd add this. Since the first Boston game on 2/21/21, here are what the clutch numbers look like for some notables.

Brandon Ingram - 40 mins, FG 10 - 22 (46%), 3P 4 - 10 (40%), FT 11 - 13 (85%), REB 6, AST 2, TO 1, STL 0, Points 35, Ofrtg 118.0
Jayson Tatum - 37 mins, FG 11 - 20 (55%), 3P 1 - 2 (50%), FT 0 - 2 (0%), REB 6, AST 2, TO 4, STL 2, Points 23, Ofrtg 88.3
Damian Lillard - 41 mins, FG 14 - 29 (48%), 3P 6 - 19 (32%), FT 19 - 19 (100%), REB 11, AST 3, TO 1, STL 0, Points 53, Ofrtg 136.3
James Harden - 33 mins, FG 10 - 22 (46%), 3P 0 - 5 (0%), FT 13 - 15 (87%), REB 11, AST 3, TO 1, STL 0, Points 33, Ofrtg 110.5
Zion Williamson - 38 mins, FG 17 - 23 (74%), 3P 0 - 0 (NA), FT 14 - 18 (78%), REB 10, AST 4, TO 0, STL 1, Points 48, Ofrtg 116.9
Ben Simmons - 49 mins, FG 5 - 11 (46%), 3P 1 - 1 (100%), FT 3 - 6 (50%), REB 17, AST 4, TO 6, STL 1, Points 14, Ofrtg 107.1
Ja Morant - 31 mins, FG 8 - 25 (32%), 3P 0 - 5 (0%), FT 5 - 8 (63%), REB 6, AST 7, TO 4, STL 1, Points 21, Ofrtg 110.8
Devin Booker - 29 mins, FG 1 - 14 (7%), 3P 0 - 6 (0%), FT 11 - 12 (92%), REB 5, AST 4, TO 3, STL 3, Points 13, Ofrtg 101.6
Kyrie Irving - 22 mins, FG 6 - 15 (40%), 3P 4 - 10 (40%), FT 7 - 9 (78%), REB 6, AST 6, TO 0, STL 2, Points 23, Ofrtg 114.3
Chris Paul - 28 mins, FG 7 - 17 (41%), 3P 0 -3 (0%), FT 10 - 11 (91%), REB 4, AST 3, TO 1, STL 0, Points 24, Ofrtg 104.8

So maybe, things are trending up for him in the clutch. So maybe, some folks can take Josh Hart's advice and stfu, chill, and enjoy the fact that this team has TWO young players that are growing. Both very capable of leading this team to victories.
03-31-2021, 07:16 AM
MichaelMcNamara

One issue with 'clutch', especially concerning us is that it only counts when the game is within 5 points.

So, that means when we are up 17 and turning it over left and right, airballing shots, missing free throws and let the team get back in it, none of that counts.

So, in that Celtics game, we didnt have any FG attempts "in the clutch" until Ingram hit that jumper. So, when Zion has 2 turnovers late and hits the side of the backboard on his shot attempt, none of that counts. Yet, those are "clutch" moments. That game could have been put away any time in those final four minutes and our guys, including Zion, were horrible.

I want to see what our stats look like in the last 6 minutes of games that at any point got within 5 points. That would be a better example of who this team is in the clutch and what they might be able to do in a playoff situation against a good team
03-31-2021, 10:37 AM
As I See It

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

One issue with 'clutch', especially concerning us is that it only counts when the game is within 5 points.

So, that means when we are up 17 and turning it over left and right, airballing shots, missing free throws and let the team get back in it, none of that counts.

So, in that Celtics game, we didnt have any FG attempts "in the clutch" until Ingram hit that jumper. So, when Zion has 2 turnovers late and hits the side of the backboard on his shot attempt, none of that counts. Yet, those are "clutch" moments. That game could have been put away any time in those final four minutes and our guys, including Zion, were horrible.

I want to see what our stats look like in the last 6 minutes of games that at any point got within 5 points. That would be a better example of who this team is in the clutch and what they might be able to do in a playoff situation against a good team

Exactly!! It's silly; until the threshold is passed, there are no clutch moments in a game?

Also, "Clutch Defense" (if there is such a measure) would be an interesting analysis, I'm sure.
03-31-2021, 10:41 AM
luckyman

True. You can also say it's unfair to Tatum since that 3 he knocked down over Adams doesn't count as "clutch", because it was a 6-point game, even if under 5 minutes.

Conversely, you can then say that shot for Ingram was even more "clutch" because it was just a 3-point/one possession game at that point, so a lot more riding on that shot.

But that's going to be true for everybody. So for the sake of comparison, it's a level field.

And I added the offensive rating to account for folks like Irving who haven't had as much clutch time in that span. And there are more offensive stats attributable to individual players than defense.
03-31-2021, 03:01 PM
Pelicanidae

Fun fact that doesn't really mean that much but that I saw anyway.

I was looking at the New Orleans Pelicans page on Basketball Reference, clicking through to get to this year's team to check out how the advanced stats were going, and I noticed something.

When you view a team's franchise page on BBall ref, it shows you their top 12 players of all time in win shares. Right now, the 12th highest win share player in Pelicans history is David Wesley, who had 10.7 Win Shares with the team.

Both Brandon Ingram and Zion Williamson are on pace to break that 10.7 Win Share total this season with the Pelicans.

Ingram has 9.4 total (5.1 last season, up to 4.3 this season so far) and with 26 games left to go this season, his per game minute average of 34.4, and his 0.13 WS/48 number, you would expect him to play a total of something like 894 more minutes this season. 894/48 = 18.63, multiply that by 0.13 for the W/S, you get 2.42. So Ingram is on pace to finish this season with 6.52 total win shares - add that to his 5.1 from last year would be a total of 11.62, which takes him over David Wesley to make it on to the Basketball Ref page as a top 12 Pel ever in terms of Win Shares.

If you do the exact same calculation for Zion, predicting his minutes for the rest of the season, looking at his WS/48, adding them to last years, etc, you get a prediction of Zion collecting 3.9 more Win Shares over the final 26 games (0.219 WS/48). Add that to the 6.6 he already has gives him a total of 10.5 for this season alone: add that to his 2.0 from last year gives him 12.5 Win Shares total, which would place him ahead of Ingram but just behind Baron Davis, meaning he would take the 12th spot, knocking Ingram down to 13.

This assumes that both players play every remaining game and don't see any significant changes to their minutes per game or effectiveness as players, which is of course making some big assumptions, so it's not to be taken too seriously.

But it is interesting that in only 94 games (Zion) and 134 games (Ingram) respectively, two guys on our current roster would make the top 13 in all-time Pelicans win shares.

Also lmao at Zion being on pace have the 12th highest Pels WS total in under 100 games. Absurd stuff. For reference, 10.5 total win shares (his projected total this year from this post) would just scrape out AD and CP3's shared record (tied at 10.4) for most win shares by a Pelican in a season before turning 21.
03-31-2021, 03:05 PM
Pelicanidae

For additional context, the top 5 single season Win Share totals in Pelicans history are:

1) 18.3 Win Shares - Chris Paul, 2008-09
2) 17.8 Win Shares - Chris Paul, 2007-08
3) 14.0 Win Shares - Anthony Davis, 2014-15
4) 13.9 Win Shares - Chris Paul, 2010-11
5) 13.7 Win Shares - Anthony Davis, 2017-18

Jesus Christ CP3 lmao
03-31-2021, 04:46 PM
MichaelMcNamara

Quote:

Originally Posted by luckyman

True. You can also say it's unfair to Tatum since that 3 he knocked down over Adams doesn't count as "clutch", because it was a 6-point game, even if under 5 minutes.

Conversely, you can then say that shot for Ingram was even more "clutch" because it was just a 3-point/one possession game at that point, so a lot more riding on that shot.

But that's going to be true for everybody. So for the sake of comparison, it's a level field.

And I added the offensive rating to account for folks like Irving who haven't had as much clutch time in that span. And there are more offensive stats attributable to individual players than defense.

I dont care about fair or unfair or whatever. I am just saying to take all those numbers with a grain of salt because it is not reflective of the new NBA.

I would modify 'clutch' as -- All possessions in the final 6 minutes of a game in which the score is ever within 6 points.

So, if it is 92-83 with six minutes left and at some point, the game gets down to a 5 or 6 point margin, then all possessions in that 6 minutes count towards 'clutch'

It might not be perfect but it would give you a MUCH better view of who performs well in those final minutes of a game when defenses ratchet up and your sets stop working

Either way, my overall point is that I dont think we are seeing much progress in our end of game, unless we get a truly favorable matchup, like when Boban was on the court in the Dallas game. We went at him 3 straight possessions and got 6 points and put that game away. But come the end of a playoff game, Boban will never be on the floor, so I dont really count that one. Sure, its nice to get a regular season win, but my goal is to always project how a team or player would fair in a playoff game and this team is horrendous in late minutes offensively. And for the life of me, I cant understand why Adams is on the court late. I think once we get a 5 man unit that doesnt include Adams, the results will improve. Then, next step will be Zion developing something in the 8-15 foot range
03-31-2021, 05:19 PM
luckyman

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

I dont care about fair or unfair or whatever. I am just saying to take all those numbers with a grain of salt because it is not reflective of the new NBA.

I would modify 'clutch' as -- All possessions in the final 6 minutes of a game in which the score is ever within 6 points.

So, if it is 92-83 with six minutes left and at some point, the game gets down to a 5 or 6 point margin, then all possessions in that 6 minutes count towards 'clutch'

It might not be perfect but it would give you a MUCH better view of who performs well in those final minutes of a game when defenses ratchet up and your sets stop working

Either way, my overall point is that I dont think we are seeing much progress in our end of game, unless we get a truly favorable matchup, like when Boban was on the court in the Dallas game. We went at him 3 straight possessions and got 6 points and put that game away. But come the end of a playoff game, Boban will never be on the floor, so I dont really count that one. Sure, its nice to get a regular season win, but my goal is to always project how a team or player would fair in a playoff game and this team is horrendous in late minutes offensively. And for the life of me, I cant understand why Adams is on the court late. I think once we get a 5 man unit that doesnt include Adams, the results will improve. Then, next step will be Zion developing something in the 8-15 foot range

Sure. Then someone else will have good reason that it should be within 9 points in the last 5 minutes. Or within 12 points in the last 7 minutes. That's a different discussion. And the recent Boston and Denver games are what I had in mind. Dallas was missing too many top players to even really consider it.

My point was that given the current parameters of "clutch", which have been used to show how much Brandon Ingram sucks within those parameters, he's actually been pretty good over the last 12 games, or 40 minutes played, of "clutch." Especially on offense.

That's all captain.

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