Oladipo

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

Why not move Gordon to PG and then you have a back court of Gordon And Dipo?

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Gordon is a turnover machine.

I would love a player from Zamunda on the Pels.

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Originally Posted by Inner_GI

Gordon is a turnover machine.

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You want your PG to have a good feel for his teammates even if he scorers a lot. That's one of Gordon's weakness. Not that he doesn't pass he just is a player that needs to focus on getting his. It would be like having Iverson as your PG just not nearly as gifted as a scorer.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

Personal feeling doesn't come into my decision at all. It's all about business. However anticipation is apart of the job. So is trusting your instincts. The Cavs got nothing of worth for LeBron because they couldn't read the writing on the wall.



You speak about Oladipo and uncertainty. There's not much certainty involving Gordon other than the fact he will make max money. I don't feel comfortable about Gordon capability to play the majority of the season next year or any years following. Matter fact the only thing that's been certain is EJ missing games as of lately. Let's not speak of Gordon as if he's a max player yet either. IF he can stay healthy people believe he can get there. Which involves two huge uncertain statements. Health and farther improvement. I rather make the gamble that doesn't cripple the franchise if something goes wrong.



1st we are talking about two completely none related issues. I would want Oladipo regardless if we had Gordon. I would want to trade Gordon regardless if Oladipo was available.

Next he has an opt out clause. So whether or not we have the last year, two really becomes about Eric and his desire or lack thereof for being apart of this team.

The Thunder attempted to trade Harden for Jonas V. Which was essential a draft pick. I think we all agree Harden has more value than Gordon if for no other reason than he's remains healthy.

The fact remains that there are more things that can go wrong than right trying to retain EJ pass this off season. This should not be the case when dealing with a guy on a max contract.

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Despite all this long winded heresay on what you "think" the future holds, here is the bottom on what we KNOW...we KNOW what Gordon can do, right now, on an NBA floor. Guessing about injuries and opting out is just that...a guess. We DO NOT KNOW how Oladipo's game will tanslate to the NBA, how his body will handle to rigors of an 82 game schedule, or what his ultimate ceiling will be.

There are much smarter ways to handle the Gordon situation than trading him and giving his spot to an unproven rookie that doesn't involve gut feelings for someone you have never been around nor spoken to.

If Oladipo is our starting 2 next year, we'll be looking for a new GM and coach and starting this whole process over again.

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Originally Posted by AD23forMVP

My problem with Burke is Dell has talked about what they want in their PG a number of times and Burke is not that.

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This; good point

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Originally Posted by luckyman

Despite all this long winded heresay on what you "think" the future holds, here is the bottom on what we KNOW...we KNOW what Gordon can do, right now, on an NBA floor. Guessing about injuries and opting out is just that...a guess. We DO NOT KNOW how Oladipo's game will tanslate to the NBA, how his body will handle to rigors of an 82 game schedule, or what his ultimate ceiling will be.

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So Gordon being injury prone is "here say"? LOL

You can not play the "uncertainty" card than speak about certainties you don't know about.

"We DO NOT KNOW how Oladipo's Gordon's body will handle to rigors of an 82 game schedule, or what his ultimate ceiling will be"

And all this rookie can't be counted on talk didn't stop all the Davis comparisons. If you are a GM and can't projected you suck at your job. Not that Demps will be high on Victor however if he is he shouldn't be afraid to trust his "instincts/gut feeling" and do what he feels is the higher percentage move.

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There are much smarter ways to handle the Gordon situation than trading him and giving his spot to an unproven rookie that doesn't involve gut feelings for someone you have never been around nor spoken to.

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Smarter like waiting until it's too late to get reasonable value in return. Like I pointed out with the Cavs.

And let's not talk like we don't ALL make judgments on players all the time we don't know personally. How many times has Cousins been called a head case? Don't get all righteous now. Gordon has made his fair share of comments/actions where it's not left field suspecting that he'll leave.

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If Oladipo is our starting 2 next year, we'll be looking for a new GM and coach and starting this whole process over again.

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And if Gordon gets hurt again we'll be looking for a new GM/coach, if he leaves and we get nothing in return we'll be looking for a new GM/coach. If he sees Davis or any other player we bring in via FA or draft as a threat like he did Blake Griffin we'll be looking for a new GM/coach, If he doesn't reach close to his ceiling on his max deal we'll be looking for a new GM/coach. Gordon can't stay healthy yet you are talking like he's been the model for consistency.

We are rebuilding it's a huge stretch to say we'll be starting the rebuild over from scratch after drafting and starting a rookie that has 3 years of big time college basketball experience.

Demps tend to like bigger guards. I think all of the guys he's brought in since he came here were pretty tall.

Expect the Hornets to take Porter or Oladipo.... lets stop kidding ourselves.

Demps and Monty wants athletisim and defense= Oladipo

They want players who plays hard =Oladipo/Porter

They want players who understand the game=Porter/Oloadipo


If we get the 3-5 pick, we are getting one of these guys. close thread/

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Originally Posted by Nola Hornet

Demps tend to like bigger guards. I think all of the guys he's brought in since he came here were pretty tall.

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He needs to overgrow that tendency because Vasquez playing heavy minutes ain't gonna cut it. And neither is just grabbing MCW or something.

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Originally Posted by Silverfoxx

Expect the Hornets to take Porter or Oladipo.... lets stop kidding ourselves.

Demps and Monty wants athletisim and defense= Oladipo

They want players who plays hard =Oladipo/Porter

They want players who understand the game=Porter/Oloadipo


If we get the 3-5 pick, we are getting one of these guys. close thread/

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You realize that you've just said Burke doesn't play hard or understand the game, right? And Burke is more athletic than Porter.

It isn't just Vasquez. Jack, Bayless, Dyson, Roberts, Sloan, and McNeal were in the 6-3 range.

I'd say every team in the league wishes their PG was 6'3" or so.

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

He needs to overgrow that tendency because Vasquez playing heavy minutes ain't gonna cut it. And neither is just grabbing MCW or something.



You realize that you've just said Burke doesn't play hard or understand the game, right? And Burke is more athletic than Porter.

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This there's nothing wrong with having preferences. However not allowing any deviation is the kind of stubbornness that gets even the smartest people canned.

If Demps sees Burke as a special talent and pass because he's barely 6' it will be a huge mistake IMO. OK no more Burke talk in Victor's thread.

Indeed.

Anywho, to steer back on track, I think Oladipo's ability to get his own shot isn't given enough credit. Or rather, what are people thinking of when they say "get your own shot"? Because it seems what they could be imagining is a bunch of And-1 Mixtape moves followed by a fade away jumper.

Demps and Monty wants athletisim and defense= Oladipo

Yet Demps trades for Anderson, Vasquez and Lopez which equates to no defense. Oladipo has too many weaknesses for the Pelican to invest into him. His outside shoot needs work; he shots 44% from the three line but takes less than two deep shots a game. His handle needs work; he is a straight line dribbler. He will immediately be a good on the ball defender but will take time to develop his offense. For Oladipo to have early NBA success, he needs to go to a fast pace team. He is a great match for a Denver like team. A team with GV as point guard is not for Oladipo. The Pelicans do not need another project.

The Pelican has to be on the OKC roadmap to success soon or AD's dad will be requesting a trade for his son. That is why I think Gordon is so important to the future of this franchise. Gordon is the only player on this team that can create and is a very good on the ball defender. He is by far the best all around player on the Pels. No SG in this draft can give you Gordon's skillset, I do not know whether Gordon WANTS to be here or not but I do know he nor Davis want to play for a losing franchise. My guess is the LBJ WANTS or would rather be in Cleveland than Miami but winning is more important to him than location.

I believe the Pelicans will select among three players now that Robinson is not available: Len, Shabazz and Burke. Detroit will attempt to jump ahead of the Pelicans for Burke, so this leaves Len and Shabazz if Detroit makes the move.

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

He needs to overgrow that tendency because Vasquez playing heavy minutes ain't gonna cut it. And neither is just grabbing MCW or something.



You realize that you've just said Burke doesn't play hard or understand the game, right? And Burke is more athletic than Porter.

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burke is not more athletic than porter

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Originally Posted by durun

Demps and Monty wants athletisim and defense= Oladipo

Yet Demps trades for Anderson, Vasquez and Lopez which equates to no defense. Oladipo has too many weaknesses for the Pelican to invest into him. His outside shoot needs work; he shots 44% from the three line but takes less than two deep shots a game. His handle needs work; he is a straight line dribbler. He will immediately be a good on the ball defender but will take time to develop his offense. For Oladipo to have early NBA success, he needs to go to a fast pace team. He is a great match for a Denver like team. A team with GV as point guard is not for Oladipo. The Pelicans do not need another project.

The Pelican has to be on the OKC roadmap to success soon or AD's dad will be requesting a trade for his son. That is why I think Gordon is so important to the future of this franchise. Gordon is the only player on this team that can create and is a very good on the ball defender. He is by far the best all around player on the Pels. No SG in this draft can give you Gordon's skillset, I do not know whether Gordon WANTS to be here or not but I do know he nor Davis want to play for a losing franchise. My guess is the LBJ WANTS or would rather be in Cleveland than Miami but winning is more important to him than location.

I believe the Pelicans will select among three players now that Robinson is not available: Len, Shabazz and Burke. Detroit will attempt to jump ahead of the Pelicans for Burke, so this leaves Len and Shabazz if Detroit makes the move.

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I hate to nitpick, especially since the rest of your post was good and I agree with almost all of what you said (except for the Len part). But who in their right mind would rather be in Cleveland than Miami?

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

Indeed.

Anywho, to steer back on track, I think Oladipo's ability to get his own shot isn't given enough credit. Or rather, what are people thinking of when they say "get your own shot"? Because it seems what they could be imagining is a bunch of And-1 Mixtape moves followed by a fade away jumper.

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Shooting off an attack dribble and good lateral dribbling moves. Oladipo is strong in a striaght line but tend to struggle having to dribble much laterally and he's not good pulling up on the attack. I feel if you have the handles these are things that can be gained.

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

burke is not more athletic than porter

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Porter has great length, great body control and skill, but he does lack explosiveness and isn't all that quick. Even if it's an B vs B- deal, it still puts Burke ahead.

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Originally Posted by durun

Demps and Monty wants athletisim and defense= Oladipo

Yet Demps trades for Anderson, Vasquez and Lopez which equates to no defense. Oladipo has too many weaknesses for the Pelican to invest into him. His outside shoot needs work; he shots 44% from the three line but takes less than two deep shots a game. His handle needs work; he is a straight line dribbler. He will immediately be a good on the ball defender but will take time to develop his offense. For Oladipo to have early NBA success, he needs to go to a fast pace team. He is a great match for a Denver like team. A team with GV as point guard is not for Oladipo. The Pelicans do not need another project.

The Pelican has to be on the OKC roadmap to success soon or AD's dad will be requesting a trade for his son. That is why I think Gordon is so important to the future of this franchise. Gordon is the only player on this team that can create and is a very good on the ball defender. He is by far the best all around player on the Pels. No SG in this draft can give you Gordon's skillset, I do not know whether Gordon WANTS to be here or not but I do know he nor Davis want to play for a losing franchise. My guess is the LBJ WANTS or would rather be in Cleveland than Miami but winning is more important to him than location.

I believe the Pelicans will select among three players now that Robinson is not available: Len, Shabazz and Burke. Detroit will attempt to jump ahead of the Pelicans for Burke, so this leaves Len and Shabazz if Detroit makes the move.

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This is a fair take on Gordon and his importance. However this ignore what has been the biggest issue with Gordon today his inability to stay healthy.

I'd rather trade Gordon if we can secure a pick that would yield us Oladipo and draft a play making PG like Burke or acquire one via FA. These are moves I feel much more comfortable with than tying the state of the franchise to Gordon.

Unless Davis just refuses to play for us(which I think we can all agree him doing is so unlikely it's barely even worth mentioning) we have control over his rights for at the very least 5 more years realistically 7-9 years. So I'm not concerned if he is a little fustrustated the 1st 2 or 3 years. Gordon on the other hand we only have 2 more years realistically just one year to convince him to stay put. We just don't have the horses IMO and won't have enough next year to put everything at risk just based on next year.

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

burke is not more athletic than porter

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Porter isn't a great athlete.

I would give speed, quickness, strength, and leaping all to Burke. Matter fact I'm not sure there's a physical category I'd give to Porter over Burke. *Is this still the Oladipo thread?:crytear:*

One thing you can't measure is that Oladipo makes big impact plays. Doesn't always have to be a buzzer beater or a shot from extra long distance. He's as liable to make a key offensive rebound and stick back as he is to make huge bucket in transition.

It's that It factor that you either have or you don't. And by being so athletic, it makes him that much more dynamic and it energizes the crowd because he does those plays with...exuberance.

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

One thing you can't measure is that Oladipo makes big impact plays. Doesn't always have to be a buzzer beater or a shot from extra long distance. He's as liable to make a key offensive rebound and stick back as he is to make huge bucket in transition.

It's that It factor that you either have or you don't. And by being so athletic, it makes him that much more dynamic and it energizes the crowd because he does those plays with...exuberance.

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I like guys who leave it all on the court that can't be taught. When you factor in he's one of the best athletes in the entire draft and have the basic skillsets to be at least a pretty decent scoring threat I like the kid a lot.

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Originally Posted by luckyman

How is putting faith in an unknown rookie any better? Basically setting yourself up to go in circles. Just think back to 2008 when it was Gordon coming out of Indiana. Exact same people on this board salivating over Dipo would be salivating over Gordon.

You have faith in Gordon because:

A.) He's only 24 and has loads of time to live up consistently to what he's ALREADY shown on an NBA floor
B.) The team already has cap space even if he stays to continue to build the roster
C.) Unlike with a Burke/GV scenario, you can say with 99% certainty that replacing Gordon with Dipo next year is a downgrade

Stop trying to rush young proven talent out of here when there is no need to at this moment.

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I admit that I like Dipo, and I think Gordon is a bad contract. That being said: Yes, the 2 spot would suffer a dip in production if we started Dipo over Gordon. But it's also important to remember that we're not trading Gordon for Dipo. You get something for Gordon as well. That something, plus Dipo, could very well make us a better team than getting Gordon. Just looking at one position over team production isn't the best way to evaluate a potential move.

1. With Davis there was no choice. There was a length and talent hole at PF. That position is also easier for a rookie to acclimate to. SG has to be the most difficult.

2. How can Gordon hold this team hostage? They are not cash strapped with his contract on the books. In your worst case scenario, he balls out to the point opting out makes any sense, meaning he's helped the team gain Ws and made the franchise more attractive with Davis still here. Otherwise, if its more of the same, opting out is not a wise choice and still gives the team time to wait for a better free agent market...which brings me to the next point.

3. What scraps do you expect to get for him right this summer? You want scraps now, plus more rookies, to unnecessarily drown the franchise in another season of more growing pains and more Ls, despite all the work they put in this season with Gordon and the young guys. Just like they did with Chris Paul, they've done everything they could with Gordon to help cease the nagging injuries. Let's trade him after we took our resources to fix him........;/

4. There is no reason for Oladipo to not come off the bench while gaining more skills should he come here. We do not have a gaping hole at SG and don't need to create one before he even steps on an NBA floor.

That my story and I'm sticking to it. Fin.

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Originally Posted by luckyman

1. With Davis there was no choice. There was a length and talent hole at PF. That position is also easier for a rookie to acclimate to. SG has to be the most difficult.

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Not sure what this is in reference to.

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2. How can Gordon hold this team hostage? They are not cash strapped with his contract on the books. In your worst case scenario, he balls out to the point opting out makes any sense, meaning he's helped the team gain Ws and made the franchise more attractive with Davis still here. Otherwise, if its more of the same, opting out is not a wise choice and still gives the team time to wait for a better free agent market...which brings me to the next point.

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He's a commodity if he walks and we get nothing in return it will be a waste. Sure playing well will raise his stock, but all that will be negated by the fact we will be acting from a position of weakness. At that point all teams will know we have to trade him or lose him for nothing. If we trade him now we can act from a position of strength. Keeping him is a option if we don't like the deal. It won't be an option if he announces he will opt out.

The reason Gordon will opt out despite injuries or down production are numerous. It could be as simple as he just doesn't like being here, but more likely is he'd have one more guarenteed year. If something were to happen during that season he would be screwed. Players hate playing in the last year of deals because anything could happen. Getting out of this deal sooner will allow him to sign another longer deal with more guarenteed money even if the deal isn't a max contract.

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3. What scraps do you expect to get for him right this summer? You want scraps now, plus more rookies, to unnecessarily drown the franchise in another season of more growing pains and more Ls, despite all the work they put in this season with Gordon and the young guys. Just like they did with Chris Paul, they've done everything they could with Gordon to help cease the nagging injuries. Let's trade him after we took our resources to fix him........;/

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First I addressed the scraps comment. If that's all we can get we move on. I'm not saying do anything stupid and if the market dictakes we can only get "scraps" we keep Gordon and move on.

The problem with the Paul era was our inability to get talent. We were too good to get high picks and not a destination for difference makers in free agency. We all know about the ownership situation now that we think it's better maybe it will get better. Maybe not I rather not bank on free agency to build this team. Yes it will result in more L's this year, but so would another Gordon injury plauged season and all that does is decrease his value.

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4. There is no reason for Oladipo to not come off the bench while gaining more skills should he come here. We do not have a gaping hole at SG and don't need to create one before he even steps on an NBA floor.

That my story and I'm sticking to it. Fin.

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We just don't know what Victor is ready for. This isn't a one and done guy. He's a junior and dominated in college toughest conference. He has a NBA body already and has NBA athleticism. Besides even if he doesn't start the next year it's not that big of a deal. You ask why rush to trade Gordon. I ask why rush the rebuild?