Is Vasquez the long term answer?

Just depends on your criteria of better pg for a rankings list, so I can see where he's coming from on his list. Not that I agree with all of them. I'd have gravy probably from 15-20

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nola Hornet

Ellis isn't a point guard and Calderon is 31... Come on man..

---

Okay so Vasquez is 15th or 16th. Doesn't make much difference. He is a middle of the road PG. If we fill our other holes we can win with him

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Inner_GI

Okay so Vasquez is 15th or 16th. Doesn't make much difference. He is a middle of the road PG. If we fill our other holes we can win with him

---

And my list shows how many quality PG's there are in the NBA. It's going to be harder to find a good SF than a good PG.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AD23forMVP

So you'd take Vasquez over Bledsoe, Hill, and Teague because they can't run the pick and roll?

I'm sorry, but I'm not the one going off personal bias/feelings. Call it fact, call it opinion, call it whatever you want but there is no argument for stating Greivis is better than those guys. There just isn't.

And if you want stats, Vasquez averages 0.74 points per possession, shoots 44% out of it, turns it over 22% of the time, and scores 36% of the time. Bledsoe averages 0.79 points per possession, shoots 43%, turns it out 15% of the time, and scores 40% of the time. George averages 0.86 points per possession, shoots 40%, turns it over 12% of the time, and scores 39% of the time. Teague scores 0.75 points, shoots 38%, turns it out 20% of the time, and scores 36% of the time. Now you read into that however you please, but there are the stats you asked for. We can talk about how well they defend the pick and roll too, if you would like.

---

Ofcourse, This team is heavily reliant on the pick and roll. The players on this team relies on the guards to create for them and do it at a high rate. Seems to me like you're just looking for a guard without accounting for what the team need. You can throw all that ppp out all you want but it doesn't account for assists. so it's flawed when you use it to judge Vasquez overall game.

I'd conjecture that we run so much pick and roll because we don't have any iso ballers anyway save for Gordon and maybe Rivers.

And you can't bring up running the pick and roll without mentioning how we defend it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eman5805

I'd conjecture that we run so much pick and roll because we don't have any iso ballers anyway save for Gordon and maybe Rivers.

And you can't bring up running the pick and roll without mentioning how we defend it.

---

With Team defense. No point guard defends the P&R by themselves. It's not practical. Williams has ran the pick and roll every year since he's been here with all of his point guards.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nola Hornet

With Team defense. No point guard defends the P&R by themselves. It's not practical. Williams has ran the pick and roll every year since he's been here with all of his point guards.

---

Dude, you know that guys like Rondo, Bledsoe, or even Lowry don't need to lean on their teammates as much as Vasquez does. And our rotations in general suffer when it comes down to the 2nd or 3rd pass and he has to rotate weakside. It's also not practical to willfully play at a such a defensive disadvantage.

He's what we have. And we should roll with GV for as long as it's sensible. But first juicy offer comes a long can't overlook it.

Don't even bother Eman.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eman5805

Dude, you know that guys like Rondo, Bledsoe, or even Lowry don't need to lean on their teammates as much as Vasquez does. And our rotations in general suffer when it comes down to the 2nd or 3rd pass and he has to rotate weakside. It's also not practical to willfully play at a such a defensive disadvantage.

He's what we have. And we should roll with GV for as long as it's sensible. But first juicy offer comes a long can't overlook it.

---

You remember what happened with Bradley and Rondo the last time they played Vasquez? He torched them in the pick and roll did he not?

Under Chris Paul about 20% of our shots came out of the pick and roll and two years later under Greivis Vasquez about 27% of our shots come out of the pick and roll.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AD23forMVP

Under Chris Paul about 20% of our shots came out of the pick and roll and two years later under Greivis Vasquez about 27% of our shots come out of the pick and roll.

---

That's a huge percentage is it not?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nola Hornet

You remember what happened with Bradley and Rondo the last time they played Vasquez? He torched them in the pick and roll did he not?

---

Vasquez in that game:
Missed a floater
Missed a floater
Made a layup
Turned the ball over
Missed a layup
Made a floater
Turned the ball over
Turned the ball over
Set up Davis for a foul

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nola Hornet

You remember what happened with Bradley and Rondo the last time they played Vasquez? He torched them in the pick and roll did he not?

---

Torching them on defense? Or are you talking about offense? Which I have no issues other than minor peeves.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nola Hornet

That's a huge percentage is it not?

---

The 20% under Paul is not, that's probably hovering around league average. The 27% is though, without a doubt. I don't think Monty runs it that much because he wants too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AD23forMVP

Vasquez in that game:
Missed a floater
Missed a floater
Made a layup
Turned the ball over
Missed a layup
Made a floater
Turned the ball over
Turned the ball over
Set up Davis for a foul

---

10 of his 15 points came in the 2nd half. 8 came in the 4th. Boston put Bradley on Vasquez early and was effectively bothering him before the team can set up the pick and roll. Vasquez decided to use his body and completely neutralized Bradley with the P&R. Then Boston decided to put Rondo on Vasquez in the second half and he torched Rondo on the P&R.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AD23forMVP

The 20% under Paul is not, that's probably hovering around league average. The 27% is though, without a doubt. I don't think Monty runs it that much because he wants too.

---

The reason was because Paul was coming off of injury and they didn't want him to over overexert himself. you should look at his % prior to Williams tenure and post tenure. That'll give you a better idea.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AD23forMVP

Under Chris Paul about 20% of our shots came out of the pick and roll and two years later under Greivis Vasquez about 27% of our shots come out of the pick and roll.

---

For someone who says that stats are overused and over emphasized when evaluating GV or players in general you're sure busting out a lot to do the opposite. :hihi: :coolg:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nola Hornet

The reason was because Paul was coming off of injury and they didn't want him to over overexert himself. you should look at his % prior to Williams tenure and post tenure. That'll give you a better idea.

---

We are talking about whether Monty wants to run a lot of PnR. Looking at the teams % of PnR before Williams got here is pointless. lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AD23forMVP

And my list shows how many quality PG's there are in the NBA. It's going to be harder to find a good SF than a good PG.

---

How many of those PGs are on the table? That's not really how it works.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Inner_GI

We are talking about whether Monty wants to run a lot of PnR. Looking at the teams % of PnR before Williams got here is pointless. lol

---

CP3 is the best P&R guard in the league. He runs it at a high percentage everywhere he goes whether the coach likes to run it or not. Ask Del Negro. There's a legitimate reason why we didn't run it as often that year. That has a lot to do with his injury. Even then, you have to accuunt for Jack's percentage as he ran the pick and roll as well that year.

I am glad you left Jarret Jack off of your list because obviously Monty and Del didn't think that highly of him before they shipped him off.

Dude just come off of a triple double and he isn't even a top 20 pg. Are they just giving these things out? Did he not just go against somebody you put on your list and get that triple double?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Purple Haze

For someone who says that stats are overused and over emphasized when evaluating GV or players in general you're sure busting out a lot to do the opposite. :hihi: :coolg:

---

The difference and importance in your standard per game/raw stats and analytics are quite large.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by UNO Gracias

I am glad you left Jarret Jack off of your list because obviously Monty and Del didn't think that highly of him before they shipped him off.

Dude just come off of a triple double and he isn't even a top 20 pg. Are they just giving these things out? Did he not just go against somebody you put on your list and get that triple double?

---

So who do you disagree with?

And Monty and Dell thought very highly of Jack. If you watched this team or listened to Monty talk at all last year that much is obvious. They just thought higher of his cap number on a rebuilding team.

I'd be willing to bet if Jack was still a part of this team he would be the starter this year. Now whether that's because he's a better player? I don't know, that's up for debate. But I do think Monty thinks more highly of Jack than he does Vasquez. Not to say he thinks Vasquez is garbage by any means.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AD23forMVP

The difference and importance in your standard per game/raw stats and analytics are quite large.

---

I know that, just found it ironic. :coolg:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by UNO Gracias

Dude just come off of a triple double and he isn't even a top 20 pg. Are they just giving these things out? Did he not just go against somebody you put on your list and get that triple double?

---

Jeff Teague isn't an upgrade. I've listed the 15-16 PGs I view as an upgrade, and Jeff Teague is more of a lateral move to me.