Pels Off season thread

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08-05-2021, 08:24 AM
new city champ

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

It will involve Charlotte. Graham and Jonas are 26 mil incoming as of right now

Instead of expiring contracts, couldn’t they opt to create a huge trade exception?
08-05-2021, 08:26 AM
donato

Can you reroute Temple or Satoransky for even more money?
08-05-2021, 08:30 AM
Conroy

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

It will involve Charlotte. Graham and Jonas are 26 mil incoming as of right now

That at least makes me feel better. It would just be extremely disappointing if we do the Mem trade to clear cap space and have everyone decline our offers. Then we pivot to a trade that has us sending a FRP and it ends up being for nothing.

I understand that locking into a core of Lonzo, Zion, & BI is risky but I think I would've rather kept the 10th pick, Adams, Bledsoe and matched Zo & Hart (kept Lakers and our own pick) with the 10th pick could've chosen b/w Bouknight, Moody, Kispert. Hindsight is 20/20 we didn't know Moody and Bouknight would be there so I'll roll with Kispert. Let's even go best case scenario and say we get Hield which roster do you prefer?

Scenario A
PG: Bledsoe
SG: Ball
SF: BI
PF: Zion
C: Adams
NAW
Kira
Kispert
Hayes
+2 more draft assets

Scenario B
PG: Graham
SG: Hield
SF: BI
PF: Zion
C: JV
NAW
Kira
Murphy
Temple
Hayes
-2 less draft assets

In scenario A I think it's likely Bledsoe gets bought out he would've essentially been an expiring right? Regardless he would've been benched for NAW / Kira to get more playing time. Scenario B has way more shooting no defense and less draft capital. I guess it comes down to A.) we have to expand the Memphis trade and B.) would you rather have Adams + 2 more draft picks to use in trades or JV and 2 less picks?
08-05-2021, 08:36 AM
DroopyDawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

How did we have him for two years and people still not know how to spell Redick yet?!??!?!?!

One 'D'

R-E-D-I-C-K

For the love of all that is holy!!!

:hihi:
08-05-2021, 08:36 AM
DroopyDawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by donato

Can you reroute Temple or Satoransky for even more money?

Can we even trade Sato?
08-05-2021, 08:45 AM
MichaelMcNamara

Quote:

Originally Posted by donato

Can you reroute Temple or Satoransky for even more money?

Not really and ita a LONG story but basically it would be much better to use Satoransky by himself than add him in to get maximum return.

Basically, if you add him, he will count as 5 mil. Not nothing, but if you trade him by himself, you can take a 15 mil player back
08-05-2021, 08:48 AM
PELICANSFAN

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

As a primer for today:

Pels can currently roll about 18 million into the Memphis trade. Send nothing out, take in a player making up to 18 mil.

Add Iwundu in there and its about 20.2 and add Gabriel its about 22.8. Add Hart (factoring in an 11 mil per year S&T), and it about 30 million.

So, that is to say that the Pelicans can take a lot of money back without giving up much/any - a very valuable tool in the trade market. Many teams are at the cap or close.

But once the Pelicans make the Memphis trade official (likely tomorrow), this ability disappears.

So, it would take Hart included to get Hield. If Gabriel and Iwundu are added, it looks very close.
08-05-2021, 08:56 AM
pjk481

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Not really and ita a LONG story but basically it would be much better to use Satoransky by himself than add him in to get maximum return.

Basically, if you add him, he will count as 5 mil. Not nothing, but if you trade him by himself, you can take a 15 mil player back

Can you elaborate at all on what the ?other opportunity? was that caused the Graham trade to change to include a first rounder?
08-05-2021, 09:28 AM
Darkhorse985

So will we be adding to the trade today? Who is looking to dump salary? Will we be taking on the ghost of Kevin Love for Josh Hart?
08-05-2021, 09:30 AM
pelafanatic

I’ve talked myself into being totally fine with Reggie Jackson and Bertans to close out free agency. Surround Zion and BI with elite shooting. That Bertans contract isn’t as bad as it looks
08-05-2021, 09:33 AM
Conroy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkhorse985

So will we be adding to the trade today? Who is looking to dump salary? Will we be taking on the ghost of Kevin Love for Josh Hart?

I really hope something happens today. I'm ready to evaluate this offseason as a whole.
08-05-2021, 09:33 AM
PELICANSFAN

Quote:

Originally Posted by pelafanatic

I’ve talked myself into being totally fine with Reggie Jackson and Bertans to close out free agency. Surround Zion and BI with elite shooting. That Bertans contract isn’t as bad as it looks

Don't see him as available now that the Wizards have been able to complete the Dinwiddie S&T without needing to unload his contract.
08-05-2021, 09:34 AM
PELICANSFAN

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conroy

I really hope something happens today. I'm ready to evaluate this offseason as a whole.

Curious to see what happens with Hart also Are we looking to move him at his request or could we re-sign him if all else fails.
08-05-2021, 09:35 AM
Darkhorse985

Quote:

Originally Posted by pelafanatic

I’ve talked myself into being totally fine with Reggie Jackson and Bertans to close out free agency. Surround Zion and BI with elite shooting. That Bertans contract isn’t as bad as it looks

I like the idea of Reggie Jackson and Bertans without giving up anything significant.
08-05-2021, 09:41 AM
pelafanatic

Quote:

Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

Don't see him as available now that the Wizards have been able to complete the Dinwiddie S&T without needing to unload his contract.

They have Kuzma, Harrel, Thomas Bryant, Rui, and Deni. I can?t imagine they want to play Vertans heavy minutes above some of those guys. I?d be they would love to get off that contract and add some flexibility. Could get and asset for taking on the contract
08-05-2021, 09:42 AM
pelafanatic

Hart probably makes the most sense for the Wizards. Would they consider Hart for Bertans and a protected first
08-05-2021, 09:44 AM
PELICANSFAN

Quote:

Originally Posted by pelafanatic

They have Kuzma, Harrel, Thomas Bryant, Rui, and Deni. I can?t imagine they want to play Vertans heavy minutes above some of those guys. I?d be they would love to get off that contract and add some flexibility. Could get and asset for taking on the contract

We'll see. His contract is not good (although the last year is only guaranteed for $5 million) and he would give us a backup 3/4.
08-05-2021, 09:47 AM
PelicanNation

Quote:

Originally Posted by pelafanatic

I’ve talked myself into being totally fine with Reggie Jackson and Bertans to close out free agency. Surround Zion and BI with elite shooting. That Bertans contract isn’t as bad as it looks

Reggie Jackson and Bertans are elite shooters now? Both players are ok but aren't elite at anything.
08-05-2021, 09:50 AM
pelafanatic

Quote:

Originally Posted by PelicanNation

Reggie Jackson and Bertans are elite shooters now? Both players are ok but aren't elite at anything.

I was more so saying generally elite shooting. But yes Bertans is an elite 3 point shooter. Jackson also shot 45% last season on catch and shoot 3s
08-05-2021, 10:05 AM
pelafanatic

I'd obviously rather Ingles than Bertans because Ingles is better and on a 1 year deal, but if you can get Bertans for nothing I'd do it
08-05-2021, 10:10 AM
Snarly

I think the Jazz made it pretty clear that they aren't dumping any of their good players.
08-05-2021, 10:15 AM
DaPelFromHell

I wish we could get Markkanen on a decent deal. If we got him I would be content with our team this year. Is Satoransky on the team? ESPN has Temple on our roster, but his name is missing. We have 15 players as of now and could only add someone if we get rid of a player to make room for him. I would likely make Didi and Jones two way players. I would love to bring back Josh Hart too if possible.

C: Jonas, Hayes
PF: Zion, Markkanen, Jones
SF: BI, Murphy, Naji, Iwundu
SG: NAW, Temple, Didi
PG: Graham, Satoransky, Kira

I would rather NAW come off the bench, but Temple is a rotation player. I could be content with a depth chart like this. We for sure need a backup 4 though.
08-05-2021, 10:16 AM
pelafanatic

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snarly

I think the Jazz made it pretty clear that they aren't dumping any of their good players.

Maybe I missed something. Last reports I saw said he was available.
08-05-2021, 10:18 AM
PELICANSFAN

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaPelFromHell

I wish we could get Markkanen on a decent deal. If we got him I would be content with our team this year. Is Satoransky on the team? ESPN has Temple on our roster, but his name is missing. We have 15 players as of now and could only add someone if we get rid of a player to make room for him. I would likely make Didi and Jones two way players. I would love to bring back Josh Hart too if possible.

C: Jonas, Hayes
PF: Zion, Markkanen, Jones
SF: BI, Murphy, Naji, Iwundu
SG: NAW, Temple, Didi
PG: Graham, Satoransky, Kira

I would rather NAW come off the bench, but Temple is a rotation player. I could be content with a depth chart like this. We for sure need a backup 4 though.

Think we only have 14 with Hart and Gabriel is not guaranteed. Jones could end up being a 2-way.
08-05-2021, 10:39 AM
msusousaphone

This is conjecture but points to Ingles not being in trade plans for Utah.

https://www.deseret.com/2021/8/3/226...s-trade-rumors

And this is just me speculating but I would think that if we had any interest in Markkanen we would have fit him into the Zo package.
08-05-2021, 11:07 AM
pelafanatic

We need to remind ourselves that Griff's plan has always been to trade for a superstar in the summer of 2022. I know it seems like we need to speed up that timeline because of Zion, but as long as we make thee playoffs this year we are fine. Just don't add bad contracts that you can't move down the line. Maintain your flexibility, and add guys on short contracts that compliment Zion and BI. That's the goal today. Don't over pay and don't lose flexibility down the line.
08-05-2021, 11:22 AM
PELICANSFAN

Quote:

Originally Posted by pelafanatic

We need to remind ourselves that Griff's plan has always been to trade for a superstar in the summer of 2022. I know it seems like we need to speed up that timeline because of Zion, but as long as we make thee playoffs this year we are fine. Just don't add bad contracts that you can't move down the line. Maintain your flexibility, and add guys on short contracts that compliment Zion and BI. That's the goal today. Don't over pay and don't lose flexibility down the line.

Don't know if it has ever been specifically 2022. It has been "when available." Heck, he tried hard to get Beal with the #4 as a center piece when we made the AD trade, but Washington had no interest. Had the opportunity come up this offseason, he obviously would hav done it.
08-05-2021, 11:23 AM
Fedupfan

Quote:

Originally Posted by pelafanatic

We need to remind ourselves that Griff's plan has always been to trade for a superstar in the summer of 2022. I know it seems like we need to speed up that timeline because of Zion, but as long as we make thee playoffs this year we are fine. Just don't add bad contracts that you can't move down the line. Maintain your flexibility, and add guys on short contracts that compliment Zion and BI. That's the goal today. Don't over pay and don't lose flexibility down the line.

How do we know that’s his plan? Considering, he hasn’t made one move we all think makes sense... I’m just curious. If he can’t get anyone to sign, how is he going to trade for a superstar and get them to stay? Not to mention he has given up his draft choices, which limits his ability to trade even more.
08-05-2021, 12:27 PM
pelafanatic

Quote:

Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

Don't know if it has ever been specifically 2022. It has been "when available." Heck, he tried hard to get Beal with the #4 as a center piece when we made the AD trade, but Washington had no interest. Had the opportunity come up this offseason, he obviously would hav done it.

I have it on decent authority that 2022-2023 was the goal. Of course, if something comes up before, you sniff around.
08-05-2021, 12:34 PM
msusousaphone

Yeah. I mean, it's a good plan. BI would be 24, Zion 22......our other young players would be coming of age, too. But when did it get leaked that it was THE plan?

I'd also make the argument that the Superstar plan is not our best course of action. Look at the Bucks. If we envision Zion as our Giannis and BI as our Middleton (I know they aren't exact matches, just loose correlation) then we're looking more for a Jrue and solid players to put around them as opposed to a Lillard or Beal.

It's hard to compare Zion and BI to CP3 and Booker but even on that roster, they're not rolling out with three superstar scorers. That's why I was so high on Lonzo. He is on a course to be that Jrue. The problem with Lonzo is he probably still sees himself as the #1 or #2.
08-05-2021, 12:40 PM
pelafanatic

Quote:

Originally Posted by msusousaphone

Yeah. I mean, it's a good plan. BI would be 24, Zion 22......our other young players would be coming of age, too. But when did it get leaked that it was THE plan?

I'd also make the argument that the Superstar plan is not our best course of action. Look at the Bucks. If we envision Zion as our Giannis and BI as our Middleton (I know they aren't exact matches, just loose correlation) then we're looking more for a Jrue and solid players to put around them as opposed to a Lillard or Beal.

It's hard to compare Zion and BI to CP3 and Booker but even on that roster, they're not rolling out with three superstar scorers. That's why I was so high on Lonzo. He is on a course to be that Jrue. The problem with Lonzo is he probably still sees himself as the #1 or #2.

I guess I'm leaking it on here right now. I've said it a few times before. Have some buddies that work for the Pels and other teams. I don't think it's any big secret
08-05-2021, 12:45 PM
Taker597

Man... I hope we don't waste that 1st hoping to expand this trade and it never happens
08-05-2021, 12:48 PM
pelafanatic

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taker597

Man... I hope we don't waste that 1st hoping to expand this trade and it never happens

That's definitely the worry I have
08-05-2021, 12:59 PM
pelafanatic

My hope yesterday was that the net move was so complicated, that is was taking extra time to get done. But I think that hope is a little naive at this point. Nothing is THIS complex

Starting to bet against a move that brings back a Hield or even a Bertans. Or an expiring....
— Mac (@michael_stokley) August 5, 2021

If Griff did actually light two firsts on fire only to bring in Graham and lose Lonzo for basically nothing, that would be a fireable offense imo. Not saying he should be fired, but that how bad of a screw up that would be. Trying to remain positive but we have about 12 hours.
08-05-2021, 01:02 PM
Lee2000

It should be evident that expanding trades is losing steam at this point and is likely to be nonexistent. It essentially allowed local media and fan bases to have something to talk about. I do hope I am wrong.
08-05-2021, 01:06 PM
Spaniard

I’m bracing for the woj tweet that says the Grizzlies/Pelicans trade has been finalized. It’s coming, and it’s going to be so sad.
08-05-2021, 01:12 PM
pelicanchamp

David Griffin is toxic

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
08-05-2021, 01:12 PM
MichaelMcNamara

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spaniard

I’m bracing for the woj tweet that says the Grizzlies/Pelicans trade has been finalized. It’s coming, and it’s going to be so sad.

Cant be official until tomorrow at noon, so we have 22 more hours left to hope
08-05-2021, 01:16 PM
Conroy

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Cant be official until tomorrow at noon, so we have 22 more hours left to hope

https://cdn.substack.com/image/fetch...bf_540x257.gif
08-05-2021, 01:18 PM
Taker597

Quote:

Originally Posted by pelafanatic

My hope yesterday was that the net move was so complicated, that is was taking extra time to get done. But I think that hope is a little naive at this point. Nothing is THIS complex

Starting to bet against a move that brings back a Hield or even a Bertans. Or an expiring....
— Mac (@michael_stokley) August 5, 2021

If Griff did actually light two firsts on fire only to bring in Graham and lose Lonzo for basically nothing, that would be a fireable offense imo. Not saying he should be fired, but that how bad of a screw up that would be. Trying to remain positive but we have about 12 hours.

I think the worst scenario is that we get the 8th seed and get swept. No picks. Griff probably saves his job.

I still see this team as a lottery squad. So, I think we'll be fine. Just more course correcting/subtraction ... And not much building.
08-05-2021, 01:18 PM
pelafanatic

As long as Josh Hart remains a free agent, I have hope that we're working something out. If he either signs takes the QO or re-signs, I think that's it for the offseason.
08-05-2021, 01:18 PM
Spaniard

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conroy

https://cdn.substack.com/image/fetch...bf_540x257.gif

Lol well placed
08-05-2021, 01:25 PM
MichaelMcNamara

Quote:

Originally Posted by pelafanatic

As long as Josh Hart remains a free agent, I have hope that we're working something out. If he either signs takes the QO or re-signs, I think that's it for the offseason.

Once the trades become official, having Hart's rights to sign and trade him become much less valuable. Right now, we can add him to the Memphis trade and take on 25+ million. Once those trades become complete, he would basically count as an outgoing salary of 5 mil. And cant be paired with Sato. You are talking about going from dozens of possibilities to very, very few once those trades become official
08-05-2021, 01:28 PM
pelafanatic

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Once the trades become official, having Hart's rights to sign and trade him become much less valuable. Right now, we can add him to the Memphis trade and take on 25+ million. Once those trades become complete, he would basically count as an outgoing salary of 5 mil. And cant be paired with Sato. You are talking about going from dozens of possibilities to very, very few once those trades become official

Yea I meant between now and the completion of the Memphis deal
08-05-2021, 01:47 PM
MichaelMcNamara

Again, maybe the Buddy deal isnt out there. Maybe taking on Bertans isnt worth it. I get all that. But take on Lamb or Looney and Laymen for a few 2nds and have a few more expirings for January and February. Doing nothing, and basically allowing what is a massive exception to expire would be indefensible to me

I always give the benefit of the doubt and say "If I know this, they must" but honestly sometimes I wonder with this front office. Like, no other FO would have given positive value for Adams last year. No other one would have put themselves so close to the lux tax by doing that and not sending to the Warriors when they could have. Could have gotten a high 2nd, the ability to use their MLE, and overall flexibility.

Like, just the dumbest things done time and time again and I truly wonder how they get to the decisions they get to. And the explanations I have been given via 3rd parties are some of the hokiest, fortune cookie things I have ever heard.
08-05-2021, 01:49 PM
PELICANSFAN

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Again, maybe the Buddy deal isnt out there. Maybe taking on Bertans isnt worth it. I get all that. But take on Lamb or Looney and Laymen for a few 2nds and have a few more expirings for January and February. Doing nothing, and basically allowing what is a massive exception to expire would be indefensible to me

I always give the benefit of the doubt and say "If I know this, they must" but honestly sometimes I wonder with this front office. Like, no other FO would have given positive value for Adams last year. No other one would have put themselves so close to the lux tax by doing that and not sending to the Warriors when they could have. Could have gotten a high 2nd, the ability to use their MLE, and overall flexibility.

Like, just the dumbest things done time and time again and I truly wonder how they get to the decisions they get to. And the explanations I have been given via 3rd parties are some of the hokiest, fortune cookie things I have ever heard.

If they finalize the deal as is, do we not get a TPE?
08-05-2021, 01:54 PM
Taker597

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Like, just the dumbest things done time and time again and I truly wonder how they get to the decisions they get to. And the explanations I have been given via 3rd parties are some of the hokiest, fortune cookie things I have ever heard.

Well, the Griff press conference starting to makes sense with him just vaguely talking in circles. Just a bunch of bs.
08-05-2021, 01:59 PM
MichaelMcNamara

Quote:

Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

If they finalize the deal as is, do we not get a TPE?

It would be much smaller. In the 6-9 mil range, depending on exactly how things are sent into the league.
08-05-2021, 02:03 PM
djrnno

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Referring to the players who actually create the value in the league as ''lunatics'' running the asylum, as if the people doing the work shouldn't have some degree of say in how their own working conditions are organised and how their own contracts are set up, is absurd.

Yes they should have some say in working conditions and contracts but players have had far too much control of the league for yrs. That is the cause of the imbalance in parity we have now . It takes a fluke like we saw this past season to have small market teams in the finals , not so in the NFL. EVERY team has just as much chance to win a championship. That's why they are #1 and and the NBA is a distant 3rd
08-05-2021, 02:04 PM
Conroy

At least we know tomorrow at noon is when all of this speculation will end? I'm looking forward to that.

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