This is truly an outlandish number of picks for a superstar, much less SGA
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I would literally lay out every pick to OKC and tell them, Just take whichever you want. Give me SGA TODAY
Nope. If we did this............
At the end of next season:
1. BI is already a Max Player
2. JV is UFA
3. SGA is RFA who would want to be a Max Player
4. DiDi is a RFA
5. Gabriel is RFA
6. Zion eligible for extension (Surely we will offer Zion a MAX extension)
7. NAW eligible for extension
8. JAX eligible for extension
Oh, and don't forget about the draft holds!!
OUCH!!!!!!!
SGA is a foundational piece to build around I doubt they trade him, but OKC has a crazy war chest of picks I wonder what this team will look like it the next 5 years. They won't get many/any free agents so Sam Presti will need to do right by those picks.
Sure, but I think we both agree that there are other routes that could also help Zion. The question, quite simply, is do you think just adding SGA makes us a championship team? It's a yes or no question.
Because if you do, then sure, throw the entire pick haul at it. Throw all the pieces.
If you don't, then I don't think it's justifiable. As has already been pointed out, completely voiding yourself of all of your long term trade assets - when you know SGA is going to demand a max and that we'll have to max Zion, as well as having extensions due for NAW and Jax - is putting yourself at a hard cap. We would no longer have any clear path towards adding major talent. We would be capped out completely, with very little in the way of draft picks to spend to improve, no young players coming in on rookie deals to replenish the talent pool, etc.
If SGA makes us a championship team in your eyes then I get it. It would be worth it, for the same reason AD was worth all those picks to LA, that Kawhi was worth sacrificing DeRozan to Toronto, and for the reason that Milwaukee was happy to give up their future for Jrue: championships are forever.
If you do not think he gets us there, then by spending everything on him you basically concede the idea of a championship to the dustbin.
Some people on this board prefer to be unhappy and that's fine.
I think this trade was a step in the right direction. I'm excited with Jonas and I'm interested to see what we do with 17. Every FO in the NBA has made mistakes. I'm not interested in holding grudges for the entirety of Griff's tenure, especially if he's willing to own up to it when presented with those mistakes. I'm happy he cut bait on SVG, Bled, and Adams after one season and didn't try to double down. Obviously he faces more criticism in the short term because he's admitting to his mistakes (which most GMs, including Dell, would not do), but it's positive for our long term outlook if he's flexible enough to not lock himself in a certain direction out of pride.
You'd still have $ this year to sign someone else. They probably wouldn't be a contender this year, but in a year or two I think absolutely they have the potential to compete for a championship. The core is so good and so young, and you assume they'd only get better. I guess it depends on how long you can keep most of the band together.
Say you went into the season with something like this?
Jonas/Hayes/Hernan-Gomez
Zion/James Johnson/Gabriel
Ingram/Naji/Didi
NAW/Duncan Robinson/Didi
SGA/Elfrid/NAW
1. It's a rough/vague framework with some of those names simply filler to give an idea. Hence, "something like this".
2. What's it matter if you come off the bench or not if you're still getting 25+ min per game? And at what point does more money than anyone else is offering matter more than starting?
Whether it really matters or not is irrelevant. We know it's something players care about and have aired grievances about in the past. Try that with an aging vet who knows their role and has earned their legacy and they sometimes buy it; trying ''what does it really matter if you're getting the minutes!'' to someone in their mid 20s and see how far it gets you.
Just saying, I think with most there's a sliding scale between that ego element and salary.
2nds have such a poor track record (non-lottery 1sts only are marginally better), and have such little value among NBA FOs, there was a conversation on radio the other day on if the NBA should just get rid of the 2nd round.
I think 27 of 30 NBA teams have all traded their original 2nd round pick this year.
And by my count, 17 teams have 2nd round picks this year. Meaning 13 have none.
There are many forms of compensation for trades. Including the TPE for uneven trades if one team has the cap room. Relatively speaking, 2nds are low on that list.
Here is a piece someone wrote on the subject. Doesn't go as deep as others I've read but close enough.
https://sportsanalytics.berkeley.edu...-treasure.html
Yes if we could add Lowry and Robinson. If we were to add a point guard and wing than I would look to add a power forward in the draft. So Garuba would make the most sense I guess. It really depends on how we feel about Naji, Iwundu, & Didi going forward as backups. I?m not the biggest Lowry fan, but he would make a huge difference to this team. Duncan Robinson would be a huge get if that could happen as well.
C: Jonas/Hayes
PF: Zion/Garuba
SF: BI/Naji/Iwundu
SG: Robinson/NAW/Didi
PG: Lowry/Kira
That would be a sick lineup for next year IMO. But since the draft is before free agency it’s kind of hard to draft based off that. But if we like what we have in Naji, Iwundu, & Didi than it makes since to add a 4. Backup 4 was our achilles heal(besides Bledsoe & Ball’s erratic play lol) until we got an enforcer in James Johnson. We should be solid at point guard with Kira, NAW, & whoever we add or keep Lonzo in free agency.
Hi Ilove JV this is your Friend lions from the grizzlies message board ,Hate to see JV leave great double /double machine but in the long run this should Help our Grizzlies get to that next Level. Happy to see your OK and looking forward to see JV have a GREAT season
Y'know, I'm glad for the little Pels/Grizz rivalry that's sprung up over the last few years. It's a really healthy kind of competition imo.
Like, we generally want them to do well (except when they play us), they have a likable team, and generally speaking they want us to do well (except against them). The media constantly tries to pit Ja and Zion against each other but every time the two interact, it's a friendly rivalry and Ja is constantly supporting Zion on twitter whenever anything comes up.
It's nice.
Nah, I should've been clearer. This year? Likely not. In the next 2-4 year window? Absolutely IMO. It's probably not a comp that holds up under interrogation, but dammit if SGA on this team doesn't make me think of that up and coming OKC 3 squad. At a certain point (provided we keep all three in this hypothetical) they just become too good to beat 4 times in a 7 game playoff series.
My issue with acquiring SGA is that it would make adding those additional pieces over the next few years very difficult, because it would mean that by the end of the year (assuming Zion takes an extension and SGA gets a max) we'd essentially have 3 max contracts on the books. Once you're in that position, you're basically capped out every year and making those extra moves becomes more difficult. Especially because the traditional way of getting around that is trading picks and obtaining ring-chasers for cheap but
1) Acquiring SGA likely costs us the majority of our pick hoard for the next 4/5 years, if not all of it
2) We've never really been historically successful in the FA market
Maybe have Zion/SGA/Ingram as a star trio would change that.
In the event that we're doing the SGA thing (which, again, long shots and hypotheticals here) it would have to be in the sort of scenario that Pelafanatic outlines in the other thread where we take advantage of his small contract this year to pile in talent now and hope to seriously contend in the next 2 years. Cause if you acquire him and then sit pretty as if that's enough, by the end of next year you'll find that suddenly your hands are very very tied.
Mhmm, which is why I'm not quite as ''100% just do it, don't ask questions'' as some other people are.
I'm in the ''SGA is really great but he alone doesn't make us into a contender therefore don't give up the world for him unless you have other ways to improve the team locked in''.
The situation Pelafanatic outlined in the other thread was a situation that ended up with SGA, but also potentially Lowry and Ingles.
You lose Bledsoe, Adams, Hart, and potentially someone like Lonzo or Kira (have to assume probably Kira would be required in the SGA move) and gain Lowry, SGA, Ingles, and Valanciunas and yeah I think that's much more in line with a team that can make a serious playoff run next year. A competitive second round team who, if they get lucky, could even make conference finals. By comparison, I feel like just adding SGA would make us a playoff team but probably a first round exit assuming nothing else gets added.
I don't think you would stuck necessarily. You still have BI to move if the pieces don't completely fit. It's not like any of Zion, BI, or SGA would depreciate in value barring a major injury, so they could all be moved for a haul if necessary. You would also have Lowry on what would hopefully be a fake 30 mil 3rd year to move in this scenario in order to add talent eventually.
Yeah, that's a fair point. And that makes me wonder if that's something Griff had in the back of his mind as far getting out of Adam's/Bled's contracts. If we make a run at SGA now, do we clear as much cap as possible to stockpile assets for an incoming run at a chip? Because that would be a major 3D chess move if so and Im convinced it had to have at least crossed his mind when he worked the deal with MEM. Though that potentially goes against his own mantra of "sustainable winning," but maybe having the magnifying glass put on him this offseason as a POBO has made him throw all that stuff to the wind :huh:
I'm not presuming the acquisition of Lowry in that post: that kind of thing fits into the scenario I was discussing at the very end where you take advantage of the fact that SGA's current deal is tiny in order to pile the talent in early. But you'd have to be confident that you can do that before making the trade.
You're right in that you're not completely stuck, you can always trade BI or even move SGA on later, but that's kind of my point. If you can't make that team contend then you have to dismantle it at least somewhat and start again with trying to find the right auxiliary pieces, which puts you essentially just in the position you started: two all-star starters, some pieces you got from trading another all-star calibre player, hitting the draft and trade market. You're just re-setting the process but with Zion another 2, 3, maybe 4 years older and your time run out.
Trade for SGA, sure. I love him and I think he was very probably a top 20 or 25 player last year - one of the best young guards in the league. But only commit massive resources to that trade if you're at least reasonably confident that you can improve the team on top of that as well. Just getting him isn't enough imo.
If there is a kind of under the table handshake agreement for Lowry in place, or Griff is super confident he can finagle Ingles as well (or both of those things) then I'm much more happy with. SGA's contract is only about $6m for this upcoming year so you can add stuff now that would continue on past his extension date. Add Lowry on a 3 year, add Ingles and you'd have his Bird Rights, etc. It's just dependent on how you do it that matters to me.
In a vacuum yep, I love SGA and he's great.
Yeah, but that kinda makes his argument though (and yours too). If we're lucky enough to make a run at Shai this year then we have to be serious about going all in with this team, both for the short and long term. We'd have to capitalize on our cap space this year before we're forced to max SGA going forward, we ride with the core we forge now for the next couple of years, and hopefully best case scenario after that we can move Lowry/BI/whatever win now piece we acquired this year for a nice haul of picks/players. That kind of potential retool wouldn't be possible though if we didn't prepare for that eventuality now.
The dream!