January 17th - New Orleans Pelicans @ Sacramento Kings - 4-7

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AusPel

Agree with this assertion

I don't think it's any coincidence that his explosion is returning with him getting in better shape

---

Don't forget that he was a legitimate 5/5 (could have been more) from the free throw line. His best overall game since last March (even if it was against the Kings).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AusPel

Exactly. I alluded to this earlier in the thread

---

Sorry, I haven't read the entire thread.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by As I See It

Sorry, I haven't read the entire thread.

---

That probably sounded fairly pompous :hihi: Sorry

Zion's FT form looked good, bending his knees like a champion

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by luckyman

It's going to be really interesting to see what SVG does when Lonzo is back. If he inserts him back in the starting lineup, I might not watch the game.

Even when NAW/Kira aren't shooting well, they do other things you need guards to do.

If Lonzo can be traded now I pretty much do it for peanuts.

---

In 48 minutes, the NAW / Kira combo gave us 10 assists and with no turnovers. Has Lonzo ever given us similar Per 48 Minute Production Numbers in these two categories?.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AusPel

That probably sounded fairly pompous :hihi: Sorry

Zion's FT form looked good, bending his knees like a champion

---

No...I'm not offended at all. We're Good

NAW and Kira in the last 3 games:

- 128 minutes
- 7 turnovers

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by As I See It

In 48 minutes, the NAW / Kira combo gave us 10 assists and with no turnovers. Has Lonzo ever given us similar Per 48 Minute Production Numbers in these two categories?.

---

In the last 3 games, NAW and Kira have combined for 128 minutes and 7 turnovers. That's 1 turnover every combined 18.2 minutes.

Lonzo thus far this year has played 301 minutes and 26 turnovers. That's 1 turnover every 11.6 minutes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

NAW and Kira in the last 3 games:

- 128 minutes
- 7 turnovers

---

They’ve been great

Jax coming out the shell. Naw coming out the shell. Kira unzipping his wrapper a little.

Last 3 games, win or lose...has been great watches.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

In the last 3 games, NAW and Kira have combined for 128 minutes and 7 turnovers. That's 1 turnover every combined 18.2 minutes.

Lonzo thus far this year has played 301 minutes and 26 turnovers. That's 1 turnover every 11.6 minutes.

---

You can't blame Zo for turning it over a lot, being that he's really aggressive driving the lane and making plays in the heart of the defense

wait

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by As I See It

In 48 minutes, the NAW / Kira combo gave us 10 assists and with no turnovers. Has Lonzo ever given us similar Per 48 Minute Production Numbers in these two categories?.

---

If he has it's been inconsistent, if not existent at all.

But I can tell you what Lonzo gives this franchise NAW/Kira doesn't yet...website clicks, eyeballs on LP, and some merchandise sales. And folks from Griff's level on up pay attention to those things. This is a business.

So from that standpoint alone Lonzo will probably get more minutes than he deserves.

At best he'll take Kira's minutes off the bench. But I know it's going to be more than that. Which will urinate me off.

A lot of praise for Kira Lewis Jr. tonight. You get the sense guys aren't just spouting platitudes either. “He’s going to be really good," Brandon Ingram said.

— Christian Clark (@cclark3000) January 18, 2021

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AusPel

A lot of praise for Kira Lewis Jr. tonight. You get the sense guys aren't just spouting platitudes either. “He’s going to be really good," Brandon Ingram said.

— Christian Clark (@cclark3000) January 18, 2021

---

Already looking like a 10+year vet compared to Lonzo. Beautiful stuff.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Ingram doing a lot of ''no, I don't think I will pass'' tonight. Odd for him, he's been a great passer all year so far.

---

That has a lot to do with coaching, Ingram is a very unselfish passer

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HornetGuru

That has a lot to do with coaching, Ingram is a very unselfish passer

---

We just got rein in on the 4th Quarter ISO Ingram, but to be a championship caliber team. You need an elite ISO guy to take over games.

Granted.... We don't need a whole 8 minutes of ISO Ingram for him to develop and get better.

https://youtu.be/26lVVVZ69Hs


Glowing praise of Lewis at the very end


I really enjoy SVG interviews. Just very honest and unfiltered.

Guess whose a 40% 3 point shooter.


Bledsoe.


And unsurprisingly...

Lonzo is a whole 30%.... Bye Felicia Rubio.

I'm glad this board attraction to Ricky Rubio is dead.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taker597

https://youtu.be/26lVVVZ69Hs


Glowing praise of Lewis at the very end


I really enjoy SVG interviews. Just very honest and unfiltered.

---

Almost makes me miss announcer Stan

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taker597

Guess whose a 40% 3 point shooter.


Bledsoe.


And unsurprisingly...

Lonzo is a whole 30%.... Bye Felicia Rubio.

I'm glad this board attraction to Ricky Rubio is dead.

---

Wouldn't it be the greatest present to us Pels fans if Lonzo never saw another minute in a Pels jersey?

Eh. This Lonzo bashing is getting a little out of hand. I don't think he's a longterm piece either, based on his performance to date, and I certainly wouldn't pay him anything approaching $20 million. But he's shown he can improve aspects of his game and I wouldn't totally discount the possibility that he could come back and play better than he has recently.

The key is achieving some consistency and where he is mentally. The last thing we (or any team) needs is a disgruntled role player who thinks he is a superstar. One thing that has stuck out to me since training camp is that Stan Van and Griff have spoken often of their vision of playing Lonzo off the ball, especially in half court sets as he doesn't drive to the hoop, isn't much of a threat in the pick and roll and not good from the line. Lonzo, on the other hand, still makes a point of referring to himself as "a point guard." It may be he is resisting the effort to make him into more of an off guard and doesn't want that role or doesn't think it's good for his NBA career.

Over his last 3 games, Jaxson Hayes holds a rebounding percentage of 24.7, including a defensive rebounding % of 34.2 and an offensive rebounding % of 16.3...His overall rebounding % and defensive rebounding % lead the #NBA over this span. #WontBowDown

— Pelicans PR (@PelicansPR) January 18, 2021

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by new city champ

Eh. This Lonzo bashing is getting a little out of hand. I don't think he's a longterm piece either, based on his performance to date, and I certainly wouldn't pay him anything approaching $20 million. But he's shown he can improve aspects of his game and I wouldn't totally discount the possibility that he could come back and play better than he has recently.

The key is achieving some consistency and where he is mentally. The last thing we (or any team) needs is a disgruntled role player who thinks he is a superstar. One thing that has stuck out to me since training camp is that Stan Van and Griff have spoken often of their vision of playing Lonzo off the ball, especially in half court sets as he doesn't drive to the hoop, isn't much of a threat in the pick and roll and not good from the line. Lonzo, on the other hand, still makes a point of referring to himself as "a point guard." It may be he is resisting the effort to make him into more of an off guard and doesn't want that role or doesn't think it's good for his NBA career.

---

Agree. I am all for the Pels exploring a trade for Ball simply because I would not want to commit huge dollars to him on a long-term deal. However, he is not the unplayable bum many make him out to be.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

Agree. I am all for the Pels exploring a trade for Ball simply because I would not want to commit huge dollars to him on a long-term deal. However, he is not the unplayable bum many make him out to be.

---

He is not completely unplayable: as champ details, there's an imaginable role in which he'd probably be actually fairly positive. The issue is that he doesn't seem to have any interest in playing that role, and instead forces himself into a position where he is clearly a negative.

The issue is in terms of role, opportunity cost (every minute you play him at PG is a minute you can't give Kira or NAW), and the impact he has on the team situation. He's not been very good this year, and that's just the reality of the situation. He wasn't very good last year either. Or the year before. At some point when a player continuously shows you nothing across various teams, coaches, team contexts, and roles, you have to just cut loose.

Everyone's said it: maybe when he's 26 or 27 he figures it out and starts dialing back the negatives and becomes a positive roleplayer elsewhere using his abilities to their best fit. But I'm not interested in paying him for the 3, 4, maybe 5 years it takes him to figure that out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

Agree. I am all for the Pels exploring a trade for Ball simply because I would not want to commit huge dollars to him on a long-term deal. However, he is not the unplayable bum many make him out to be.

---

Nobody is making him out to be an unplayable bum. The issue is the other guards on this team are better at what this team needs and this team's future outside of Bledsoe.

And even Bledsoe just needs time to acclimate to a new team. He also has been playing very well lately.

Just watching Ben Taylor's latest video on Shaq's peak.

Fun fact: during the Lakers 3-peat, Shaq did not take a single shot outside of 15 feet in the playoffs.

Turns out that if you're a historically dominant interior scorer who can do work off the ball, you can be very good in the playoffs without jumpers. Wild.

More Jaxson Hayes info:

More Jaxson Hayes goodness. For guys who have played at least 100 minutes, he is 11th in the league in box-outs per 36 minutes with 6.0.

Steven Adams is 9th with 6.4/ per36

— Shamit Dua (@FearTheBrown) January 18, 2021

Jaxson Hayes now leads the Pelicans in ORB%, DREB%, and Total REB% https://t.co/RCmfQ2v7L3

— Shamit Dua (@FearTheBrown) January 18, 2021

And a little on Zion:

Zion Williamson has been one of the most efficient Isolation players in the NBA through the first 12 games.

Pts Per Poss: 1.33 (6th)
FG%: 80.0% (1st)
FT Freq%: 23.8% (7th)
Score Freq%: 71.4% (2nd)
%tile: 93.1#Pelicans

— GHOST (@NolaGhostSports) January 18, 2021

Hayes seems to be learning from Adams. Good things

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Over his last 3 games, Jaxson Hayes holds a rebounding percentage of 24.7, including a defensive rebounding % of 34.2 and an offensive rebounding % of 16.3...His overall rebounding % and defensive rebounding % lead the #NBA over this span. #WontBowDown

— Pelicans PR (@PelicansPR) January 18, 2021

---

Impossible, Hayes sucks they say

Stats per 100

Jaxson Hayes 2019-20: 20.2pts, 11.1rbds, 2.4asts, 1.1stls, 2.4blks. 68.9%TS (67.2%FG/64.7%FT)
Jaxson Hayes 2020-21: 16.4pts, 17.8rbds, 2.4asts, 0.7stls, 2.1blks. 61.1%TS (55.9%FG/83.3%FT)

Foul rate is exactly identical, at 6.9 per 100 in each season.

So you can see, the efficiency from the floor is down a bit which is largely led by him shooting 33.3% over the first 5 games (he's been 60.7% from the floor since then) but the FT% is way up. So far this season he's 10/12 from the FT line, which is definitely low volume but still a good sign in terms of efficiency. I'd like to see his FTr increase: it was an astronomical 75.3% last year, and while I don't expect that this year, the drop to 35.3% is pretty huge. If he could scrape it up to 40% that would be great although of course, it's largely up to the refs which calls you get.

The rebounding increase is substantial though, and significant.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Stats per 100

Jaxson Hayes 2019-20: 20.2pts, 11.1rbds, 2.4asts, 1.1stls, 2.4blks. 68.9%TS (67.2%FG/64.7%FT)
Jaxson Hayes 2020-21: 16.4pts, 17.8rbds, 2.4asts, 0.7stls, 2.1blks. 61.1%TS (55.9%FG/83.3%FT)

Foul rate is exactly identical, at 6.9 per 100 in each season.

So you can see, the efficiency from the floor is down a bit which is largely led by him shooting 33.3% over the first 5 games (he's been 60.7% from the floor since then) but the FT% is way up. So far this season he's 10/12 from the FT line, which is definitely low volume but still a good sign in terms of efficiency. I'd like to see his FTr increase: it was an astronomical 75.3% last year, and while I don't expect that this year, the drop to 35.3% is pretty huge. If he could scrape it up to 40% that would be great although of course, it's largely up to the refs which calls you get.

The rebounding increase is substantial though, and significant.

---

Over the last few games. The offense has been much better at using our bigs down low.

I remember saying that Adam needs atleast 10 FGA per gane to not shrink the floor on Zion and Ingram. He's been consistently getting 7 and 8. Over the last three games. Hayes been getting those looks too. He's avaging 5.6 per game.

Our bigs getting 13-15 FGA game is a good soft goal to get every game.

The best philosophy to teach is too always keep the floor frok shrinking and we have a big problem with that with Ingram ISO.

Pelicans players points per shot so far this season:

Zion:
At-Rim: 1.29 (77/119)
Midrange: 1.00 (16/32)
3PT: 0.00 (0/1)

Ingram:
At-Rim: 1.21 (17/28)
Midrange: 0.98 (48/98)
3PT: 1.08 (23/64)

Lonzo:
At-Rim: 1.38 (11/16)
Midrange: 0.63 (6/19)
3PT: 0.95 (19/60)

Adams:
At-Rim: 1.42 (39/55)
Midrange: 0.94 (8/17)
3PT: 0.00 (0/0)

Eric Bledsoe:
At-Rim: 1.43 (15/21)
Midrange: 0.76 (11/29)
3PT: 1.28 (20/47)

NAW:
At-Rim: 1.15 (15/26)
Midrange: 1.00 (14/28)
3PT: 1.15 (15/39)

Jax:
At-Rim: 1.04 (13/25)
Midrange: 1.33 (4/6)
3PT: 0.00 (0/0)

Redick:
At Rim: 1.00 (1/2)
Midrange: 0.8 (8/20)
3PT: 1.05 (21/60)

Hart:
At-Rim: 1.41 (12/17)
Midrange: 0.67 (3/9)
3PT: 0.93 (14/45)

Just thought there's some interesting numbers in here. There are some that might look surprising at first glance, like Lonzo's high at-rim PPS, but that makes more sense when you look at how low the frequency is: of course he's generally efficient at the rim, he barely ever gets there. When he does they're usually just straight lay ins. More common is for him to do the weird stiff-arm floater that counts as a midranger in this data, and as you can see, Lonzo from midrange is basically the worst shot anyone on this team takes.

You can see Jax's midrange game: super low volume, but so far he hits them when he takes them.
You can see Redick's 3pt struggles: his 3s so far have produced barely more points per shot than a NAW midranger, which is not what you'd expect.
You can see that NAW is producing at least 1 point per shot regardless of where he's taking them, which is generally good.
You can see how Zion's points per shot at the rim isn't the highest on the team, but how his frequency is astronomically high: nobody else gets to the rim as often as he does. You can also see a relatively low volume but reasonably efficient trail of midrangers in Zion's shot profile this season. Of course, this includes runners/floaters/scoop shots as midrangers so it's not like he's hitting Jordan fadeaways every game, but it shows that he has some scoring prowess outside of the restricted area.
Worryingly, you can see Ingram's lack of rim-frequency as well as his massive reliance on a midrange shot that is the least efficient one he takes.

Been saying for awhile Hayes is raw and looks a little lost at times but the ability is there, the jumper is there, the freakish length and athleticism is there. SVG will work on his D. Now imagine Hayes being 20 pounds heavier and not losing much bounce running the floor with Zion while also shooting 85% from the stripe. I’m just curious who will be the big free agent in the future because the lineup looks set for the future, which it should be because these guys need to develop. I really don’t care about winning games right now, sure it’s great but I wanna see improvement, that coupled with our draft picks we could have a top 5 team in 2-3 years.

Kira
NAW
BI
Zion
Hayes

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Worryingly, you can see Ingram's lack of rim-frequency as well as his massive reliance on a midrange shot that is the least efficient one he takes.

---

This may be an old school take, but I think Ingram's midrange game opens the rest of his offense; so I don't necessarily think its a bad shot. Since he's not exceptionally quick, he needs the treat of the mid range in order to keep his defender off balance

I've been trying to tell people for months that people within the organization really like Jax. I think there's people that allowed the Instagram post on the Rookie/Sophomore game completely dissuade them from the idea that Jax could become a good basketball player (which doesn't make much sense to me).

This may surprise people, but using expletives on a social media post doesn't necessarily make you a bad person. Lack of judgement from a 19 year old? Sure. JJ Redick uses expletives in basically every interview and is applauded for it. He's not a dumb kid by any means.

3 years of competitive basketball experience. His ability to rebound outside of his zone is already tremendous. Tracking balls and pulling them down over his shoulder like he's Davante Adams. His main issue is the Pels don't have a guard that can get into the paint consistently enough to get him lobs, but Kira and NAW have both shown positive signs in this regard.

There was A LOT of group think when it came to Jax's abilities and potential, and I'm glad that he's starting to prove some of his skeptics wrong

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pelafanatic

This may be an old school take, but I think Ingram's midrange game opens the rest of his offense; so I don't necessarily think its a bad shot. Since he's not exceptionally quick, he needs the treat of the mid range in order to keep his defender off balance

---

There's a difference between having the shot to keep defenses honest, which I absolutely agree is a good thing, and what Ingram does right now, which is take more than three times the volume of shots from the midrange than at the rim.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

There's a difference between having the shot to keep defenses honest, which I absolutely agree is a good thing, and what Ingram does right now, which is take more than three times the volume of shots from the midrange than at the rim.

---

I don't put as much of the blame there on Ingram as I do on roster construction, which I'm sure you can agree with to an extent. It's nearly impossible for Ingram to get to the rim with the current starting unit.

We can all acknowledge that Ingram's life has been far too difficult this season. His percentage of catch and shoot 3's is down to 16.4% from 28% last season. That's effectively a drop from 5 catch and shoot 3s per game to 3. Inversely, his pull up 3s have risen from 1 to 3. This is both a result of Jrue's departure and Gentry/Finch firings, in my opinion. The Pels desperately need a guard that can shoulder some of the load, as well as set BI up for C&S 3s. He's shooting less than 1 wide open 3 per game on a team with Zion Williamson. That has to change

Did everyone realize who SVG had on the court for the Pelican final possession?

BI
JJ
EB
Kira
NAW (who got fouled and hit two free throws)

Absent was:

Zion
Adams
JH
JAX

As Dylan says, "The Times -- They are A' Changing".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pelafanatic

I don't put as much of the blame there on Ingram as I do on roster construction, which I'm sure you can agree with to an extent. It's nearly impossible for Ingram to get to the rim with the current starting unit.

We can all acknowledge that Ingram's life has been far too difficult this season. His percentage of catch and shoot 3's is down to 16.4% from 28% last season. That's effectively a drop from 5 catch and shoot 3s per game to 3. Inversely, his pull up 3s have risen from 1 to 3. This is both a result of Jrue's departure and Gentry/Finch firings, in my opinion. The Pels desperately need a guard that can shoulder some of the load, as well as set BI up for C&S 3s. He's shooting less than 1 wide open 3 per game on a team with Zion Williamson. That has to change

---

Some of that seems to be our lack of any cohherent offense identity. Maybe I don't know enough about basketball to pick up on this team's offensive structure, but it looks like we just let our players take turns playing ISO ball and hope that someone get hot.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Freyfamilyreuni

Some of that seems to be our lack of any cohherent offense identity. Maybe I don't know enough about basketball to pick up on this team's offensive structure, but it looks like we just let our players take turns playing ISO ball and hope that someone get hot.

---

In the current version of the NBA, the star on the best teams always has the ball in his hands at the end of a closely contested game. (See: LeBron, Steph, Kawhi, James, KD, Luka, Donovan, Damon, Giannis, etc.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pelafanatic

I don't put as much of the blame there on Ingram as I do on roster construction, which I'm sure you can agree with to an extent. It's nearly impossible for Ingram to get to the rim with the current starting unit.

We can all acknowledge that Ingram's life has been far too difficult this season. His percentage of catch and shoot 3's is down to 16.4% from 28% last season. That's effectively a drop from 5 catch and shoot 3s per game to 3. Inversely, his pull up 3s have risen from 1 to 3. This is both a result of Jrue's departure and Gentry/Finch firings, in my opinion. The Pels desperately need a guard that can shoulder some of the load, as well as set BI up for C&S 3s. He's shooting less than 1 wide open 3 per game on a team with Zion Williamson. That has to change

---

Oh for sure, I'm not putting all of the blame on Ingram. The offense has been so clunky at times, fairly often he's just taking the shots he can get and he's not bursty or physically strong enough to manufacture at-rim attempts himself on high volume. That's not a huge issue, every player has a few nitpicks, and you can build an offense around that: we just haven't. So it's hurting his performance, at least to some extent.

When I said ''worryingly'', I didn't mean it as in ''worryingly, Ingram is being a big dumb idiot!'', I just meant it as in ''worryingly, the shots we're getting out of our highest frequency scorer are not the best shots for him''.

That's partially why I'm hoping that we can keep feeding minutes to NAW and Kira. Whatever your view on Lonzo, it's clear that he isn't capable of handling a primary initiator role right now: if we want to maximise Ingram, we need to find someone who *is* capable of that.

Should be noted that I don't think anyone is really to blame. The roster just isn't at it's final state right now, and that is fine. We need to be patient