Draft Prospects Discussion

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

They also don't grow on trees. A lot of NBA players are one way guys or specialists, guys who only do one thing well.

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That's why you grow and develop them. Almost all the 2 way wing players in the leauge stay on the same team Hayward, Butler, Leonard, Giannis, and PG. All these guys were not high picks or seen as top prospects. They were seen as guys who could be great defenders and develop their offensive games. Unless the guy is superstar offensive level type player I don't want him if he can't play both sides with Heild and Murray they are not. That why I like a guy like Luwawu he's already a impact defender in one of the vest teams in the France league able to guard Pg's and sf's he has great size at 6'7 and a 7'2 wingspan. He has bounce like pg and over a year great developed his offensive game which shows great work ethic. These are the type of guys we need to take chances on. Guys like that never come on the market, meanwhile guys like heild who fit that Brandon Knight mold are always available to grab.

I seriously feel like picking Heild will be a big mistake. I see him as a poor defensive high volume scorer off the bench he ceiling is super low from what he already is.

How much would y'all give up to move up to draft Kris Dunn? (assuming he doesn't fall to us anyway).

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Originally Posted by 504ByrdGang

I seriously feel like picking Heild will be a big mistake. I see him as a poor defensive high volume scorer off the bench he ceiling is super low from what he already is.

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This is worst possible scenario but it can happen.

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Originally Posted by frankatank109

How much would y'all give up to move up to draft Kris Dunn? (assuming he doesn't fall to us anyway).

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Nothing we don't need guardsssssssssssssssssss, this draft is avg so we need to pick a prospects. Our biggest holes where we get 0 production is at the 3 and 5. Why does everyone want a guard so bad I don't get it. It's like one person likes someone and the fan base unites to all like him.

Who I want and who are they compared to

Ben- Super Draymond

Ingram- PG/KD hybrid he has the body of KD but not as gifted offensively and has the game like PG where he's either dominant or streaky

Brown- elite athlete, great defender, great size and strength He will be a defensive stud with a capable offensive game

Bender- dont know much about him

POELTL- defensive stud C great rim protector and post defender with decent athleticism

LuWaWu- He's in the Kawhi/Batum mold, if developed right a versatile athletic defender with a 3 pt shoot and has to develop his ability to create his own shot but is very capable.

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Originally Posted by 504ByrdGang

Nothing we don't need guardsssssssssssssssssss, this draft is avg so we need to pick a prospects. Our biggest holes where we get 0 production is at the 3 and 5. Why does everyone want a guard so bad I don't get it. It's like one person likes someone and the fan base unites to all like him.

Who I want and who are they compared to

Ben- Super Draymond

Ingram- PG/KD hybrid he has the body of KD but not as gifted offensively and has the game like PG where he's either dominant or streaky

Brown- elite athlete, great defender, great size and strength He will be a defensive stud with a capable offensive game

Bender- dont know much about him

POELTL- defensive stud C great rim protector and post defender with decent athleticism

LuWaWu- He's in the Kawhi/Batum mold, if developed right a versatile athletic defender with a 3 pt shoot and has to develop his ability to create his own shot but is very capable.

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In an ideal world, we pick an SF, but the only good-looking SF high in the draft is Jaylen Brown, and I just don't trust him on the offensive end, reminds me of MKG. In that scenario we should go for the best player available, and that is KD.

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Originally Posted by Silverfoxx

This is worst possible scenario but it can happen.

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Thats how it works with everyone TBH.

Simmons could end up as a jigsaw piece that never puts together the necessary jump shot to be a star and becomes a bit of a tough fit for most rosters. Leaving him as a weird Lamar Odom/Boris Diaw/Lebron James specimen that can't shoot.

Buddy Hield may be a glorified Marcus Thornton or he may become the next James Harden/Dwayne Wade or he may just land somewhere in the CJ McCollum area. The promising thing with Hield is that despite being a 4th year guy he is adding new major wrinkles to his game that I would be shocked if his development has plateaued from here out.

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Originally Posted by 504ByrdGang

Nothing we don't need guardsssssssssssssssssss, this draft is avg so we need to pick a prospects. Our biggest holes where we get 0 production is at the 3 and 5. Why does everyone want a guard so bad I don't get it. It's like one person likes someone and the fan base unites to all like him.

Who I want and who are they compared to

Ben- Super Draymond

Ingram- PG/KD hybrid he has the body of KD but not as gifted offensively and has the game like PG where he's either dominant or streaky

Brown- elite athlete, great defender, great size and strength He will be a defensive stud with a capable offensive game

Bender- dont know much about him

POELTL- defensive stud C great rim protector and post defender with decent athleticism

LuWaWu- He's in the Kawhi/Batum mold, if developed right a versatile athletic defender with a 3 pt shoot and has to develop his ability to create his own shot but is very capable.

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Problem is most of those guys are out of our range unless we get really lucky. We really let that boat sail when we decided to retain Ryno, put Gordon back in the lineup and keep trying for that sacrificial 8th seed.

So a guy like Hield becomes more realistic at 8-10. I agree there are a number of guys I would like to take a chance on over Hield but that might not be a realistic possibility. Luwawu might be the only one you listed still on the board when we pick.

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Originally Posted by N.O.Bronco

Thats how it works with everyone TBH.

Simmons could end up as a jigsaw piece that never puts together the necessary jump shot to be a star and becomes a bit of a tough fit for most rosters. Leaving him as a weird Lamar Odom/Boris Diaw/Lebron James specimen that can't shoot.

Buddy Hield may be a glorified Marcus Thornton or he may become the next James Harden/Dwayne Wade or he may just land somewhere in the CJ McCollum area. The promising thing with Hield is that despite being a 4th year guy he is adding new major wrinkles to his game that I would be shocked if his development has plateaued from here out.

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Heild isn't just a 4th year guy, he's 23. I see McCollum being his ceiling I see no Harden in his game. I just don't want another high usage ball dominant guy. We need a versatile defender that looks to rebound and makes quick passes. I don't see Heild as much of a diffenrce maker other than a good scorer.

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Originally Posted by N.O.Bronco

Problem is most of those guys are out of our range unless we get really lucky. We really let that boat sail when we decided to retain Ryno, put Gordon back in the lineup and keep trying for that sacrificial 8th seed.

So a guy like Hield becomes more realistic at 8-10. I agree there are a number of guys I would like to take a chance on over Hield but that might not be a realistic possibility. Luwawu might be the only one you listed still on the board when we pick.

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You're total right and around that range I rather choose a guy who has a chance to a impact player than one who's a safe pick with a low floor. I'm just not a fan of what Heild would add to this team, that last this is what we lack is scoring.

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Originally Posted by 504ByrdGang

Heild isn't just a 4th year guy, he's 23. I see McCollum being his ceiling I see no Harden in his game. I just don't want another high usage ball dominant guy. We need a versatile defender that looks to rebound and makes quick passes. I don't see Heild as much of a diffenrce maker other than a good scorer.

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He has made strides this year in a number of areas, including playing off the ball. You see many 3-4 year guys and they have plateaued or maybe even slightly regressed. You don't see that with Hield TBH. I admit I have done a much poorer job then years past keeping up with CBB so I say this as someone that hasn't gotten as many looks at Hield as I would like.



I'm at a point with Hield that I am not opposed to him(and might be slightly excited) if we unfortunately get stuck at the 8-10 spot.

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Originally Posted by N.O.Bronco

He has made strides this year in a number of areas, including playing off the ball. You see many 3-4 year guys and they have plateaued or maybe even slightly regressed. You don't see that with Hield TBH. I admit I have done a much poorer job then years past keeping up with CBB so I say this as someone that hasn't gotten as many looks at Hield as I would like.



I'm at a point with Hield that I am not opposed to him(and might be slightly excited) if we unfortunately get stuck at the 8-10 spot.

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Ive seen it, my whole thing is when has a player that old come into the leauge and made an impact? I just rather to fill a need and versitle scoring defenders should be #1 on the list for us. We've had way too many one way players these past season and as all the top teams have shown you won't win with that. Offense can always be developed if you have a strong work ethic defense is a physical gift. If I were a team like the Bucks, Sac, wolves, or nuggets who desperately needs scoring at that position that's the guy I want. We have 2 guy more than able to fill that role and where Heild would struggle to get playing time.

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Originally Posted by 504ByrdGang

Ive seen it, my whole thing is when has a player that old come into the leauge and made an impact? I just rather to fill a need and versitle scoring defenders should be #1 on the list for us. We've had way too many one way players these past season and as all the top teams have shown you won't win with that. Offense can always be developed if you have a strong work ethic defense is a physical gift. If I were a team like the Bucks, Sac, wolves, or nuggets who desperately needs scoring at that position that's the guy I want. We have 2 guy more than able to fill that role and where Heild would struggle to get playing time.

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Damian Lillard and Draymond Green are doing pretty well last I checked. Both 4 year college players. You could throw in JJ Redick, Chandler Parsons, and David West. That is off the top of my head.

Again though, I largely agree with you. I would easily take Brown, Simmons, or Ingram before Hield. But I just don't think we will have that option. Luwawu seems the only one on your list that will be around 8-10. And I am not sold on him. Mostly because I haven't seen enough to be swayed one way or another.

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Originally Posted by 504ByrdGang

Nothing we don't need guardsssssssssssssssssss, this draft is avg so we need to pick a prospects. Our biggest holes where we get 0 production is at the 3 and 5. Why does everyone want a guard so bad I don't get it. It's like one person likes someone and the fan base unites to all like him.

Who I want and who are they compared to

Ben- Super Draymond

Ingram- PG/KD hybrid he has the body of KD but not as gifted offensively and has the game like PG where he's either dominant or streaky

Brown- elite athlete, great defender, great size and strength He will be a defensive stud with a capable offensive game

Bender- dont know much about him

POELTL- defensive stud C great rim protector and post defender with decent athleticism

LuWaWu- He's in the Kawhi/Batum mold, if developed right a versatile athletic defender with a 3 pt shoot and has to develop his ability to create his own shot but is very capable.

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I would draft Luwawu simply to hear Schwann MURDER his name every week on the podcast.

We need a grown man, someone who can help right away.

Considering our timeline, we need EVERY YEAR of that rookie scale contract to be productive.

http://hoopshype.com/2016/02/28/hoop...-mock-draft-3/

Hoopshype latest Mock has us taking Hield.

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Originally Posted by N.O.Bronco

Damian Lillard and Draymond Green are doing pretty well last I checked. Both 4 year college players. You could throw in JJ Redick, Chandler Parsons, and David West. That is off the top of my head.

Again though, I largely agree with you. I would easily take Brown, Simmons, or Ingram before Hield. But I just don't think we will have that option. Luwawu seems the only one on your list that will be around 8-10. And I am not sold on him. Mostly because I haven't seen enough to be swayed one way or another.

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Green was 21 as a rookie

Lillard was 21

JJ was 21

Parsons was 21

Heild will be 23

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Originally Posted by Caffeinedisastr

We need a grown man, someone who can help right away.

Considering our timeline, we need EVERY YEAR of that rookie scale contract to be productive.

http://hoopshype.com/2016/02/28/hoop...-mock-draft-3/

Hoopshype latest Mock has us taking Hield.

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that's the problem with this franchise of being short sighted. I rather have a high impact guy in year 3-4 with no impact in 1-2 than a low impact contributing guy in 1-4. Those guys won't be huge game changers and to rely on them to do that would be bad for the org and be short sighted of drafting.

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Originally Posted by 504ByrdGang

Green was 21 as a rookie

Lillard was 21

JJ was 21

Parsons was 21

Heild will be 23

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Last I checked we talk about a persons NBA pique being in the 25-28 range. So I am not sure what angle you are going for with your argument.

On draft night Hield will be roughly 6 months older then Lillard was at his draft night. 2 months older then Draymond Green. He will be almost a month younger then Chandler Parsons was. This argument doesn't really hold up to scrutiny.

I get it that you want to go after the high risk/high reward type at a position of need and thats fine, but you are attempting to justify that by framing Hield as someone without any possible remaining upside or potential and that just isnt true.

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Originally Posted by N.O.Bronco

Last I checked we talk about a persons NBA pique being in the 25-28 range. So I am not sure what angle you are going for with your argument.

On draft night Hield will be roughly 6 months older then Lillard was at his draft night. 2 months older then Draymond Green. He will be almost a month younger then Chandler Parsons was. This argument doesn't really hold up to scrutiny.

I get it that you want to go after the high risk/high reward type at a position of need and thats fine, but you are attempting to justify that by framing Hield as someone without any possible remaining upside or potential and that just isnt true.

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I must have my info confused then, my fault. But I think Heild has a very low ceiling and doesnt fit a need for this team.

The more I hear this "the team wants someone who can help now and are likely to trade the pick or take a veteran college player" the more infuriated I get. This franchise is going to waste the career of the best 25 or younger player in the league because they have this "win now mentality. YOUR FRANCHISE PLAYER IS 22 FREAKING YEARS OLD AND IS ALREADY A TOP 5 PLAYER IN THE GAME. It's not Demps fault either, it falls squarely on the shoulders of Tom Benson wanting to see his team win now. We are getting all these "young vets" that by the time AD is in his prime at 27 years old they will all be 32 years and older and this team will really go into the **************. Such bad management.

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Originally Posted by 504ByrdGang

I must have my info confused then, my fault. But I think Heild has a very low ceiling and doesnt fit a need for this team.

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I can respect that. After all we have a core disagreement on a few guards on our team so I can understand why we both see the need level for that position differently. I do fundamentally agree with you at ideally swinging for the fences with the pick. I am just unsure who would be available at 8-10 that qualifies??

I don't think Hield likely ever becomes James Harden or Dwayne Wade but I do think his ceiling could be borderline all-star like Lillard. His floor is also higher then many of the other rawer prospects, which lowers the relative risk. At worse I see him as an efficient role player. I can also see him fitting well next to Jrue. Of course I would love a shot at Simmons, Ingram or Dunn but I think that is wishful thinking with our current win projection. There is also something to say for adding a fiery, solid IQ guy who hates losing to a rather stoic, often lethargic locker room. Who's skill set probably doesnt lend itself to the level of injury proneness most of our other guards have with their style out of college.

The more I watch him the more I warm up to him.

People knock his size to be an NBA defender but he actually has a wingspan slightly longer then Wesley Matthews with similar athleticism, half an inch shorter then Tony Allen and longer then Avery Bradley. Guys that have done just fine defending the 2 in the NBA.

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Originally Posted by N.O.Bronco

I can respect that. After all we have a core disagreement on a few guards on our team so I can understand why we both see the need level for that position differently. I do fundamentally agree with you at ideally swinging for the fences with the pick. I am just unsure who would be available at 8-10 that qualifies??

I don't think Hield likely ever becomes James Harden or Dwayne Wade but I do think his ceiling could be borderline all-star like Lillard. His floor is also higher then many of the other rawer prospects, which lowers the relative risk. At worse I see him as an efficient role player. I can also see him fitting well next to Jrue. Of course I would love a shot at Simmons, Ingram or Dunn but I think that is wishful thinking with our current win projection. There is also something to say for adding a fiery, solid IQ guy who hates losing to a rather stoic, often lethargic locker room. Who's skill set probably doesnt lend itself to the level of injury proneness most of our other guards have with their style out of college.

The more I watch him the more I warm up to him.

People knock his size to be an NBA defender but he actually has a wingspan slightly longer then Wesley Matthews with similar athleticism, half an inch shorter then Tony Allen and longer then Avery Bradley. Guys that have done just fine defending the 2 in the NBA.

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Those guys are know for their defense and are defense first while Heild is score first. We need more defenders and guys who want to get dirty less guys who are looking to shoot the ball.

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Originally Posted by AD23forMVP

The more I hear this "the team wants someone who can help now and are likely to trade the pick or take a veteran college player" the more infuriated I get. This franchise is going to waste the career of the best 25 or younger player in the league because they have this "win now mentality. YOUR FRANCHISE PLAYER IS 22 FREAKING YEARS OLD AND IS ALREADY A TOP 5 PLAYER IN THE GAME. It's not Demps fault either, it falls squarely on the shoulders of Tom Benson wanting to see his team win now. We are getting all these "young vets" that by the time AD is in his prime at 27 years old they will all be 32 years and older and this team will really go into the **************. Such bad management.

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In the draft we should take a prospect that has a high ceiling is we want someone to contribute right away get that in FA. Hardly has any rookie been a big contributor past the top 5 picks in their 1-2 years. I hate the term NBA ready players, because NBA ready players are usually the biggest disappoinments.

Any where he is a highlight of Timothe Luwawu he's a big contributor to a good team in much more competitive game than CBA. Look at his passing and shooting the athletic ability and defensive pressure he puts on guys.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OM5wXs8SQIM

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Originally Posted by 504ByrdGang

Those guys are know for their defense and are defense first while Heild is score first. We need more defenders and guys who want to get dirty less guys who are looking to shoot the ball.

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Ok but who in the 8-10 range satisfies those wants is my point? Most of the guys you listed will be gone at our likely spot.

Hield's scouting actually looks a lot like Matthews on the defensive end. Almost eerily so. The consensus is that he projects to be an adequate defender at the next level with room to grow into a good defender. He has good lateral quickness, good strength, solid on-ball skills, acceptable length but still has work to go on fundamentals and technique. But that pretty much applies to any player coming out of college. He certainly isnt a one way player. Though I doubt he ever becomes a lock down defender.

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Originally Posted by 504ByrdGang

Green was 21 as a rookie

Lillard was 21

JJ was 21

Parsons was 21

Heild will be 23

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Wrong. I'm a little sick of you just making up crap like it's actual fact. Hield will still be 22 when next season starts. Lillard was just 22 when he started his first season, same with Green, Reddick, Parsons was 23 in October before his rookie season.

You just flat out make stuff up hey dude, your arguments are pointless because they aren't factual.

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Originally Posted by Impose

Wrong. I'm a little sick of you just making up crap like it's actual fact. Hield will still be 22 when next season starts. Lillard was just 22 when he started his first season, same with Green, Reddick, Parsons was 23 in October before his rookie season.

You just flat out make stuff up hey dude, your arguments are pointless because they aren't factual.

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I admitted i was wrong, I guessed off the top of my head

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Originally Posted by N.O.Bronco

Ok but who in the 8-10 range satisfies those wants is my point? Most of the guys you listed will be gone at our likely spot.

Hield's scouting actually looks a lot like Matthews on the defensive end. Almost eerily so. The consensus is that he projects to be an adequate defender at the next level with room to grow into a good defender. He has good lateral quickness, good strength, solid on-ball skills, acceptable length but still has work to go on fundamentals and technique. But that pretty much applies to any player coming out of college. He certainly isnt a one way player. Though I doubt he ever becomes a lock down defender.

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I told you who I like Timothe Luwawu, I'm not interested in picking a guard or this constant win now approach with a guy who can contribute right away. I feel like if they don't change their approach with that mentality this franchise is doomed.

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Originally Posted by 504ByrdGang

I told you who I like Timothe Luwawu, I'm not interested in picking a guard or this constant win now approach with a guy who can contribute right away. I feel like if they don't change their approach with that mentality this franchise is doomed.

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Luwawu is listed at 195 pounds, he's not going to play SF in the NBA until he bulks up. I remember you saying Q-Pon isn;t a SF because he gets bullied by bigger guys, Luwawu will need 3 or 4 years to not be bullied by big SF's.

He's a tall guard with average speed, most mocks have him out of the lottery because he's not that great an athlete.

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Originally Posted by AD23forMVP

The more I hear this "the team wants someone who can help now and are likely to trade the pick or take a veteran college player" the more infuriated I get. This franchise is going to waste the career of the best 25 or younger player in the league because they have this "win now mentality. YOUR FRANCHISE PLAYER IS 22 FREAKING YEARS OLD AND IS ALREADY A TOP 5 PLAYER IN THE GAME. It's not Demps fault either, it falls squarely on the shoulders of Tom Benson wanting to see his team win now. We are getting all these "young vets" that by the time AD is in his prime at 27 years old they will all be 32 years and older and this team will really go into the **************. Such bad management.

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This is my argument from the beginning. And it's sad because alot of fans is buying into this way of thinking pushing for the quick fix and playoffs. Rushing the process and trying to put a bandaid on this franchise is what will make AD wanna gtfoh if it gets to that bad. Management philosophy is exactly what Mediocre teams throughout history does, and not championship ones. If fans are fine with just being "ok" and a fun team and not a championship contender, then maybe I'll be a loner pessimist, but I see what MM speech about championship or bust is all about. This franchise has to change its philosophy. Starting now and building correctly through the draft is the right way to go. No damn wishful thinking of getting a FA and resigning broken toys to play together with.

You take your damn L like a man and learn from it. The pride and ego of management is slowly becoming our downfall. Also as fans we have to understand the process. I'm sick of the whole stigma of building through the draft is "quitting" or tanking. It's not. It's like you guys have been brainwashed from Benson. We have to put our pride aside and think of the bigger picture.


NEWSFLASH: New Orleans received the most National televised games in the history of the franchise this year. Because media is ready for AD to take off and knows he will be a superstar. But CP3 and our best season still didn't Warner attnetion. We are a small market. Hell even new Orleans folks don't take the Pels serious.

We have to accept the reality that we are NOT a hot destination. We have probably the WORST medical staff in the league and we have a young Superstar in the making but no other true "players" Free agents are not gonna be banging on out door like you guys are assuming.

Dell knows this. Loomis knows this. This is why they were looking for young vets or very good players not "stars" during Dell era here. It's not gonna change now after a horrible embarrassing season displayed on national media.

The draft and slow building is the true answer for us guys. Please accept the truth

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Originally Posted by Impose

Luwawu is listed at 195 pounds, he's not going to play SF in the NBA until he bulks up. I remember you saying Q-Pon isn;t a SF because he gets bullied by bigger guys, Luwawu will need 3 or 4 years to not be bullied by big SF's.

He's a tall guard with average speed, most mocks have him out of the lottery because he's not that great an athlete.

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I've have yet so that knock on him. Everything I seen on him he can be a great defender at the NBA level. Of course it will take a couple of years to develop his NBA body he's a rookie. Batum was listed at 218 as a took he in his recent interview says hes around 210 and 6'7 without shoes. I like this guy a lot due to his defensive versitlity and passing with how athletic he is. People are ify on him due to the league he plays in where its more of an open floor game than the NBA.

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Originally Posted by 504ByrdGang

I told you who I like Timothe Luwawu, I'm not interested in picking a guard or this constant win now approach with a guy who can contribute right away. I feel like if they don't change their approach with that mentality this franchise is doomed.

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As someone else said he seems to be a reach at 8-10. I guess if you see him as a superstar no position for him would ever be a reach.

I just think we are stuck on a core disagreement about where Hield's ceiling is. You seem to think he is essentielly tapped out while I don't. So while we both have a similar mindset about our draft needing to be someone that can be another borderline all star next to Davis, we just disagree on whether Hield's realistic ceiling can be that.

The point of getting someone who has multiple college years is to get someone who isn't an idiot. It's amazing how many busts come mid lotto because teams go purely for potentially good players who are generally athletes first, basketball players second.

Look at Golden State drafting their championship team:

Klay - Junior college career
Steph - Junior college career
Draymond - Senior college career
Ezeli - Senior college career

They drafted young men who had played multiple seasons under high level coaching and ran serious offensive schemes. The reason I want Hield is because he will be able to and used to working within an offensive scheme. He is an ELITE shooter; Curry and Klay were both 40% college 3pt shooters, Hield is 47% right now on 8 attempts per game. Hield is built for the modern NBA. Drafting more polished prospects is how Golden State won their chip, not by gambling on 19 year olds who have proven nothing.

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Originally Posted by Silverfoxx

This is my argument from the beginning. And it's sad because alot of fans is buying into this way of thinking pushing for the quick fix and playoffs. Rushing the process and trying to put a bandaid on this franchise is what will make AD wanna gtfoh if it gets to that bad. Management philosophy is exactly what Mediocre teams throughout history does, and not championship ones. If fans are fine with just being "ok" and a fun team and not a championship contender, then maybe I'll be a loner pessimist, but I see what MM speech about championship or bust is all about. This franchise has to change its philosophy. Starting now and building correctly through the draft is the right way to go. No damn wishful thinking of getting a FA and resigning broken toys to play together with.

You take your damn L like a man and learn from it. The pride and ego of management is slowly becoming our downfall. Also as fans we have to understand the process. I'm sick of the whole stigma of building through the draft is "quitting" or tanking. It's not. It's like you guys have been brainwashed from Benson. We have to put our pride aside and think of the bigger picture.


NEWSFLASH: New Orleans received the most National televised games in the history of the franchise this year. Because media is ready for AD to take off and knows he will be a superstar. But CP3 and our best season still didn't Warner attnetion. We are a small market. Hell even new Orleans folks don't take the Pels serious.

We have to accept the reality that we are NOT a hot destination. We have probably the WORST medical staff in the league and we have a young Superstar in the making but no other true "players" Free agents are not gonna be banging on out door like you guys are assuming.

Dell knows this. Loomis knows this. This is why they were looking for young vets or very good players not "stars" during Dell era here. It's not gonna change now after a horrible embarrassing season displayed on national media.

The draft and slow building is the true answer for us guys. Please except the truth

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https://media.giphy.com/media/7rj2ZgttvgomY/200w.gif

And you can see the fan base falling for this by everyone wanting an NBA ready prospect. This team a complete overhaul and needs to grow together.

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Originally Posted by Impose

The point of getting someone who has multiple college years is to get someone who isn't an idiot. It's amazing how many busts come mid lotto because teams go purely for potentially good players who are generally athletes first, basketball players second.

Look at Golden State drafting their championship team:

Klay - Junior college career
Steph - Junior college career
Draymond - Senior college career
Ezeli - Senior college career

They drafted young men who had played multiple seasons under high level coaching and ran serious offensive schemes. The reason I want Hield is because he will be able to and used to working within an offensive scheme. He is an ELITE shooter; Curry and Klay were both 40% college 3pt shooters, Hield is 47% right now on 8 attempts per game. Hield is built for the modern NBA. Drafting more polished prospects is how Golden State won their chip, not by gambling on 19 year olds who have proven nothing.

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And then you have guys like Bennett and Beasly or Thomas Robinson or Bummer who were all killing college and were NBA ready but were all duds. Its a difference between being pure potential and having potential with flashes of skill. Luwawu plays in a league much tougher than the College bball on one of the best teams in that league while being a major key. So to say he plays for nothing is false.

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Originally Posted by N.O.Bronco

As someone else said he seems to be a reach at 8-10. I guess if you see him as a superstar no position for him would ever be a reach.

I just think we are stuck on a core disagreement about where Hield's ceiling is. You seem to think he is essentielly tapped out while I don't. So while we both have a similar mindset about our draft needing to be someone that can be another borderline all star next to Davis, we just disagree on whether Hield's realistic ceiling can be that.

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I can agree with that I think Heild will be a decent scorer but scoring can always be learned I'm not sold on him defensively. He's average in college and is the same size and stature as Gordon and as we seen with him unless you are an explosive athlete its hard to be a good defender. I know ppl bring up Wes but he came into the NBA as a defender first and learned to score. I rather the guy who can help fix our bottom 10 defense for the past 5 years over the guy who can fix our top 10 offense.

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Originally Posted by N.O.Bronco

As someone else said he seems to be a reach at 8-10.

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Looking at who's drafting in that area and what their needs are I think you might be able to trade to the back of the lottery and still get him. I like Hield but we HAVE to address SF at some point. We see what surrounding AD with guards gets you, an above average offense and a terrible defense. We're not likely to get a high level SF via FA anytime soon and we failed to trade for similar guys like Porter Jr and Oubre with about as good of a non draft pick asset as we're going to get, so we pretty much need to draft one, maybe even 2. I'd love to come out of this draft with Luwawu and Taurean Prince. Prince is a little older and bigger but more limited, strict 3 and D type. They'd make a good tandem and let you shift QPon to SG full time. Then all of a sudden you go from undersized bad perimeter defenders to long and athletic plus defenders.

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Originally Posted by 504ByrdGang

And then you have guys like Bennett and Beasly or Thomas Robinson or Bummer who were all killing college and were NBA ready but were all duds. Its a difference between being pure potential and having potential with flashes of skill. Luwawu plays in a league much tougher than the College bball on one of the best teams in that league while being a major key. So to say he plays for nothing is false.

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Not sure you're even arguing my point? Bennett and Beasley were both drafted after freshman years, Robinson was still athlete first, basketball player second and got exposed for being too small for his position.

I'm not saying Luwawu cannot be good, I'm saying it'll take him years to even touch what Hield is able to do. Even then it's a maybe.

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Originally Posted by 504ByrdGang

I can agree with that I think Heild will be a decent scorer but scoring can always be learned I'm not sold on him defensively. He's average in college and is the same size and stature as Gordon and as we seen with him unless you are an explosive athlete its hard to be a good defender. I know ppl bring up Wes but he came into the NBA as a defender first and learned to score. I rather the guy who can help fix our bottom 10 defense for the past 5 years over the guy who can fix our top 10 offense.

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He is above average in college.

Gordon lost a lot defensively because he is shorter(though a slightly longer wingspan) and with injuries his athleticism is just shot. People had high hopes for him defensively before all the injuries. Going so far as saying he could be an elite defender in this league. Hield isnt getting quite that level of projection but "very good" seems to be a common realistic projection. There is nothing preventing him from being a good defender. He has enough strength, lateral quickness, IQ and effort to become one.

Any player with the right measurables, effort and IQ can be a good defender. Taking a similarly raw talent offensively and turning them into an offensively versatile and proficient NBA player is historically much harder.

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Originally Posted by Impose

I'm not saying Luwawu cannot be good, I'm saying it'll take him years to even touch what Hield is able to do. Even then it's a maybe.

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And that's the biggest problem with this franchise looking for quick fixes and ignoring the real problems. Yes Heild can be a good scorer but that is not what we need. I rather surround AD with a team full of great defenders and ok scorers than a team full of great scores and ok defenders.

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Originally Posted by BP225

Looking at who's drafting in that area and what their needs are I think you might be able to trade to the back of the lottery and still get him. I like Hield but we HAVE to address SF at some point. We see what surrounding AD with guards gets you, an above average offense and a terrible defense. We're not likely to get a high level SF via FA anytime soon and we failed to trade for similar guys like Porter Jr and Oubre with about as good of a non draft pick asset as we're going to get, so we pretty much need to draft one, maybe even 2. I'd love to come out of this draft with Luwawu and Taurean Prince. Prince is a little older and bigger but more limited, strict 3 and D type. They'd make a good tandem and let you shift QPon to SG full time. Then all of a sudden you go from undersized bad perimeter defenders to long and athletic plus defenders.

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Listen I am with you, SF is at the top of my list of needs. And it isnt close.

I am just not going to pass up a guy I think can be really good in this league because he doesnt match my ideal position of need.

Like I have said, I need to do some more research on Luwawu, but outside of him, there seems to be a complete drought of SF prospects in our projected range of 8-10 and I am not sure I would be willing to reach for a guy projected anywhere from 20-30 like Taurean Prince simply because he checks off that box.

There are plenty of serviceable SF's who can defend around in FA. I agree with Bronco there is NO point in reaching for a SF if BPA is a SG or C because they are all positions of need.

I wasn't suggesting taking Prince with our 1st, I was thinking more like trading both of our 2nds for a late 1st to grab him. Or maybe if you can find a tradeback partner for our 1st, like getting the Cleveland pick from Phoenix, you could package that with one of the 2nds to move up to the mid 20s and take him.

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Originally Posted by Impose

There are plenty of serviceable SF's who can defend around in FA. I agree with Bronco there is NO point in reaching for a SF if BPA is a SG or C because they are all positions of need.

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Name one that is realistic?

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Originally Posted by 504ByrdGang

Name one that is realistic?

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Wes Johnson

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Originally Posted by Impose

Wes Johnson

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That guy sucks

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Originally Posted by Impose

There are plenty of serviceable SF's who can defend around in FA. I agree with Bronco there is NO point in reaching for a SF if BPA is a SG or C because they are all positions of need.

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I'm not saying you're wrong, but I think you're wrong to have faith that the team will be able to get one just because they're on the market. It's been the glaring hole on the roster since Ariza left. Fans lost patience with Aminu because Monty overplayed him because he didn't really have any other options. And we've replaced Aminu for 2 years with the same "plan" we had for replacing Lopez. Things got bad enough at center that we ended up burning a 1st to trade for a Lopez replacement. If that's the path we're on, and I don't think we have any evidence to suggest we're on another path at SF, then drafting some good SF prospects seems better than waiting for things to get so bad we make an Asik style trade for a SF.

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Originally Posted by 504ByrdGang

That guy sucks

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He and Pondexter can easily handle the SF position for another year, it doesn't have to be a long term signing. Fact is the guy has good size, good block/steal numbers, I've read Clipper fans giving Doc crap for not playing him more. He'd be fine for a 2 year contract with 2nd year a team option. Pondexter will play SF next year and if we're really looking for a long term answer go look at Mo Harkless lately in Portland, he's been good.

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Originally Posted by BP225

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I think you're wrong to have faith that the team will be able to get one just because they're on the market. It's been the glaring hole on the roster since Ariza left. Fans lost patience with Aminu because Monty overplayed him because he didn't really have any other options. And we've replaced Aminu for 2 years with the same "plan" we had for replacing Lopez. Things got bad enough at center that we ended up burning a 1st to trade for a Lopez replacement. If that's the path we're on, and I don't think we have any evidence to suggest we're on another path at SF, then drafting some good SF prospects seems better than waiting for things to get so bad we make an Asik style trade for a SF.

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There are lots of ways to acquire a SF, doesn't have to be through the lottery. Heck we can even force Tyreke to play it if we really feel like it. The only reason people are screaming for a SF is because Pondexter has been out and Gee/Cunningham can't shoot.

You are drooling over Luwawu when you haven't even seen the guy play but a few times max! Not saying he won't be good but having such a strong opinion on somebody you can't even watch makes very little sense.

Boston didn't want to trade Jae Crowder for Kevin Love. 2 way wings are becoming indispensable in today's NBA, perhaps the most important position outside of SuperStar. Wes Johnson and QPon isn't that different from Jason Smith and Stiemsma at center. If that's the plan I suspect we'll be trading our 2017 1st for a small forward sometime next year.