Game Day Thread! Pelicans vs Grizzlies 3/07/15

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Originally Posted by speedyG

What? He has been praised all season as a 3 and D guy. The Bucks have nobody that can score the ball without Knight, naturally his usage rate is going to go up.

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You keep acting like I am dissing the man. He is doing GREAT.

But I don't want to pay a guy big money to stand in the corner on this team and wait for his opportunity. And with Reke, Jrue, Gordon, Ryno, AD, etc. here, that is all a guy is gonna do. Unless we move 2 or more of those guys, we just don't have the shots for anyone else.

Get rid of Gordon and Reke or Gordon and Anderson, and then I would love Middleton. Until that day, though, I wouldn't spend big money on a guy who scores.

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Originally Posted by RENFO

Not buying the 'earn refs' respect' line. Call the fouls if they're fouls.

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I am not saying it is how it should be. Just saying it is how the league works.

Just watched the game. What a hot dam win. Thes types of wins are make the losses to the inferior teams that much more nut crunching. A little consistency is all this team needs and we could easily be a top 5 seed in the west.

Grizzlies shot 29 fts to our 13 on our home court. I'm sorry but that ish is ridiculous. Asik had 3 tos and hardly ever gets solo touches lol. Guy is goofy as hell. Ajinca has surprised me big time by the progress he has made. Def been a pleasant surprise for everyone for sure. Id rather has Ajinca at this point over Asik. Especially if Asik costs any more than 7-8m per year.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Not directed at you, just in general.

This narrative bothers me so much. Yes, we lost to some this year. But that 6-1 streak featured 5 sub .500 teams and another one who was/is playing terrible in Toronto.

We are an inconsistent team - as most young teams are. It's not like we beat all good teams and lose all our games to bad ones. Yet, it seems like the funny, snarky thing to say. I read it, literally, 50-100 times after any loss to a bad team.

This is an inconsistent team - partly because of injuries, partly because of youth, and partly because of lack of continuity. I don't think who we play against has nearly as much to do with the inconsistency as those three things.

Okay, I am done. Sorry.

Pels win!!

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We are 18-11 against sub .500 teams. Improving that record to 23-6 or even 24-5 and we are fighting for that 6-7 seed instead of being on the outside looking in right now. I think we will see a really nice jump from this team next year. We are In a brutal division. We are still growing for sure.

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Originally Posted by kclaboy504

We are 18-11 against sub .500 teams. Improving that record to 23-6 or even 24-5 and we are fighting for that 6-7 seed instead of being on the outside looking in right now. I think we will see a really nice jump from this team next year. We are In a brutal division. We are still growing for sure.

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If you use that logic then you have to do the reverse. By most objective measures we rank somewhere between 14th to 16th overall in the league. Weve beaten plenty of teams who are flat out better than us in a vacuum. Should we count how many of those games we should NOT have won? This most recent Memphis game comes to mind, as does thw 12 pt 4th Qtr comeback against the Maple Leafs, I mean the Drakes.

I missed the game but when I stole a score watch under the table at the restaurant and we were down 18...I knew it would make us play harder and come back. Great win.

Anthony Davis had 23 pts, 10 reb & 5 blk vs Grizzlies Saturday, his 8th 20-10-5 game of the season. Rest of NBA has 6 such games COMBINED.

— ESPN Stats & Info (@ESPNStatsInfo) March 8, 2015

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Yeah. No thoughts.

Those guys have fun over there. It's not a real board IMO. Kind of a bunch of people blowing off steam, trying to be edgy or funny IMO. Ethically, I could never go over there because of how often they are homophobic, racist, sexist, etc. Even if its just a joke, I can't support that kind of stuff.

But people need a place like that I suppose. Just a shame that there are 2-3 solid posters over there who waste their time trying to talk ball with a bunch of psychos.

To each their own.

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Lmao. You are full of crap. You took a shot first and then want to cry about it when people swing back. This board is no better than Pelicans Talk, and I would like to see an example of the racist, homophobic, sexist things you claim are frequently said over there. Let me guess that was just your typical BS that you like spew. Get off your high horse.

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Originally Posted by studentofthegam

Lmao. You are full of crap. You took a shot first and then want to cry about it when people swing back. This board is no better than Pelicans Talk, and I would like to see an example of the racist, homophobic, sexist things you claim are frequently said over there. Let me guess that was just your typical BS that you like spew. Get off your high horse.

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And you seem like you would do fine over there, so why waste your time here?

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

And you seem like you would do fine over there, so why waste your time here?

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I post on both sites. Both have their pros and cons but your childish attacks really is not a good look for someone who wants to be taken seriously as a blogger. And I am still waiting for some examples. That is a strong claim to make especially when you have nothing to back it up with

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Originally Posted by DefensiveMind

If you use that logic then you have to do the reverse. By most objective measures we rank somewhere between 14th to 16th overall in the league. Weve beaten plenty of teams who are flat out better than us in a vacuum. Should we count how many of those games we should NOT have won? This most recent Memphis game comes to mind, as does thw 12 pt 4th Qtr comeback against the Maple Leafs, I mean the Drakes.

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You totally missed my point in the post. If you want to play that game tho. We can play it. We are 7-12 in games against far more talented teams. So, no it really wouldn't work like that. We always play Memphis tough every year. Okc without durant doesn't count. Dallas, Spurs, clippers, Hawks, cavs, rockets, and the Blazers would all fall under the teams in that category. So, yea we aren't doing great against them. Anyways my point was we are actually doing a pretty good job of handling the sub .500 teams overall this year. If we could improve that mark NEXT YEAR to somewhere around 23-6 or 24-5 we could be in much better playoff position.

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Originally Posted by studentofthegam

I post on both sites. Both have their pros and cons but your childish attacks really is not a good look for someone who wants to be taken seriously as a blogger. And I am still waiting for some examples. That is a strong claim to make especially when you have nothing to back it up with

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Go search the 'f' word on that site (slang for a homosexual). 'B' word or 'P' word (ones that refer to women or acting like a woman) on that site. You will get no less than hundreds of hits. It is the sole reason I would never post over there. Like I said, I get it. It's boys being boys. Locker room talk, etc. I even said that I think it is needed as an outlet.

But to me, those are words that are offensive to people and I could never personally support a site that doesn't condemn that type of talk. Sorry it gets you upset, but it is an objective fact about that board. That language is used there and the mindset is promoted, even if unintentionally.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

I do not fully agree with this, but I do think that you need to understand some of the more subtle things about the game to appreciate Asik. Casual fans do not spend one second thinking about effectiveness of a guys picks, for instance.

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But,not all that you thread w/ are "Casual fans". Your definition of a casual fan is strictly perception on your part.
You thread as though, compared to you, everyone is a casual fan.
Whenever there is an actual thread on the subtleties of the game, it dies quickly.
Frankly, x's and o's of the game, I find much more interesting, than say, Is Westbrook awesome or not.. Does Tyreke have a shoe IQ.Is New Orleans too small of a city for OMER. Is poor grammar/typing a criminal offense.
We vent on this board & basically have no clue of the intricacies of locker room dynamics,certain nagging injuries,chemistry between certain players, et al. Understanding on court subtleties does indeed add immediate credence to one's position,but doesn't encompass everything we dont/cant know about in the practice facility.
I sit (Season Tickets) next to an attorney from Chicago at the games. He's here 15 yrs now,but still Bulls over Pelicans.
We talked about the Asik dynamic & Noah in Chicago.He said Noah gets torched for being basically a clutz on the offensive end! It's just a normalcy that people accentuate the offensive side & have blinkers on, when it comes to defense. when you dont see Asik cerebrally prodding players, i.e. leaning, bumping, holding the back of their jerseys. Never changing temperment, never raising his voice, getting Technicals. Gets hacked over and over, takes a beating, guarding the best in the league 75% of the nights.
So, MM, if you want to have a discussion about x's & o's, w/out the preconceived notion that you already know more than the person your threading with. Sounds like a winner.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Go search the 'f' word on that site (slang for a homosexual). 'B' word or 'P' word (ones that refer to women or acting like a woman) on that site. You will get no less than hundreds of hits. It is the sole reason I would never post over there. Like I said, I get it. It's boys being boys. Locker room talk, etc. I even said that I think it is needed as an outlet.

But to me, those are words that are offensive to people and I could never personally support a site that doesn't condemn that type of talk. Sorry it gets you upset, but it is an objective fact about that board. That language is used there and the mindset is promoted, even if unintentionally.

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They have a language filter setting on the site for people who are as sensitive as you. And I would not have a problem with what you said had you simply stated you didn't agree with the language used on the site. You went much further and started with your usual I am better than everyone attitude even to the point where you referred to the majority of the site as psychotic (seems like you are the one who is upset, not me.)

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

You keep acting like I am dissing the man. He is doing GREAT.

But I don't want to pay a guy big money to stand in the corner on this team and wait for his opportunity. And with Reke, Jrue, Gordon, Ryno, AD, etc. here, that is all a guy is gonna do. Unless we move 2 or more of those guys, we just don't have the shots for anyone else.

Get rid of Gordon and Reke or Gordon and Anderson, and then I would love Middleton. Until that day, though, I wouldn't spend big money on a guy who scores.

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I get if you don't want to pay him, but describing him as a scorer who cant impact the game without the ball, and then saying Danny Green is that guy, no.

Middleton is doing what Green is only better, younger, and without the Spurs system.

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Originally Posted by kclaboy504

We are 18-11 against sub .500 teams. Improving that record to 23-6 or even 24-5 and we are fighting for that 6-7 seed instead of being on the outside looking in right now. I think we will see a really nice jump from this team next year. We are In a brutal division. We are still growing for sure.

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Well that record against sub .500 took a dive as soon as 2015 hit. They are 9-9 against sub .500 since January and 9-4 against the rest.

Blame it on injuries, youth, coaching. Perhaps it's all three.

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Originally Posted by studentofthegam

They have a language filter setting on the site for people who are as sensitive as you. And I would not have a problem with what you said had you simply stated you didn't agree with the language used on the site. You went much further and started with your usual I am better than everyone attitude even to the point where you referred to the majority of the site as psychotic (seems like you are the one who is upset, not me.)

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It is not that it offends me. It is that it promotes this idea that minorities, women, homosexuals, etc. are inferior. And before you say the common response of "That's not their intention," please know that intention means nothing in those matters.

I do not think I am better than them, and never said so. In fact, I have never said I am better than anybody. That is something that insecure people tend to read from my words. Their interpretation. I simply said that I could not support a site like that too. And if you care about women, homosexuals, minorities, etc. then you shouldn't either until they institute new policies. But it is a free country and of course you can do what you wish.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

It is not that it offends me. It is that it promotes this idea that minorities, women, homosexuals, etc. are inferior. And before you say the common response of "That's not their intention," please know that intention means nothing in those matters.

I do not think I am better than them, and never said so. In fact, I have never said I am better than anybody. That is something that insecure people tend to read from my words. Their interpretation. I simply said that I could not support a site like that too. And if you care about women, homosexuals, minorities, etc. then you shouldn't either until they institute new policies. But it is a free country and of course you can do what you wish.

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You dont have to SAY it! Perception is reality!

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Originally Posted by Tinman

You dont have to SAY it! Perception is reality!

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And yet there are dozens to hundreds who interact with me on here or Twitter that do not feel like I think I am better than them. To me, it says more about the agent who feels this way than the one who is the supposed cause of this feeling.

I am 6'5". People can't make me "feel short", even taller people. Because I am secure in my height. I don't think about who I am in relation to others. Similarly, people who are secure in their intelligence never tell me that I am trying to make them feel dumb or inferior to me.

I have strong opinions, back them up, and try to engage in high end conversations where I ask others to do the same. If you don't like it, don't engage with me. Why is that so hard?

Lol how about those saints?

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

It is not that it offends me. It is that it promotes this idea that minorities, women, homosexuals, etc. are inferior. And before you say the common response of "That's not their intention," please know that intention means nothing in those matters.

I do not think I am better than them, and never said so. In fact, I have never said I am better than anybody. That is something that insecure people tend to read from my words. Their interpretation. I simply said that I could not support a site like that too. And if you care about women, homosexuals, minorities, etc. then you shouldn't either until they institute new policies. But it is a free country and of course you can do what you wish.

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Please stop with the backtracking and quit trying to deny what you said when it is posted in this very thread. You insulted the intelligence and content of the site and have even gone as far as labeling the majority of the message board as physcotic. In fact, your original attack on the site via Twitter had nothing to do with the language used, seems like that is just an excuse you have latched on to.

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Originally Posted by Tinman

You dont have to SAY it! Perception is reality!

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Yeah I suppose next time he calls me a psycho I should take that as he thinks we are equals.

Let's get back to the Pels. For those who don't like me, I couldn't care less. Just avoid me - it's not that hard.

As for the Pels, great win last night. Huge 4 game stretch for the team coming up with a brutal stretch looming after that. Also, fully expecting some real news about Ryno and Jrue by the end of this upcoming week.

Sorry I brought the site up. Did not know we had tigerdropping lowlifes on this forum.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Let's get back to the Pels. For those who don't like me, I couldn't care less. Just avoid me - it's not that hard.

As for the Pels, great win last night. Huge 4 game stretch for the team coming up with a brutal stretch looming after that. Also, fully expecting some real news about Ryno and Jrue by the end of this upcoming week.

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Smart move to bow out. Wasn't really looking good for you.

And agreed, team showed me a lot last night. These last 20 games should be fun. Has been a while since games in March actually meant something for the Pels

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

I do not fully agree with this, but I do think that you need to understand some of the more subtle things about the game to appreciate Asik. Casual fans do not spend one second thinking about effectiveness of a guys picks, for instance.

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I have been really watching Asik since I started dogging him to make sure I wasn't talking out of my ***, and I am going to stand by my statement that if we want to win a championship Asik can't be our center. He is so late on help defense because he is so slow, and is the catalyst of I think 7-8 pseudo turnovers per game. While he may set good screens, his screens are not nearly as effective because there is no reason for his defender to stay true to Asik, because Asik can't catch, and because if he does catch it it takes him a year to finish or he travels. I think he is a fantastic 1 on 1 defender against big boddied big men which is great, but that single ability I don't think trumps everything else.

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Originally Posted by heybigmatt

I have been really watching Asik since I started dogging him to make sure I wasn't talking out of my ***, and I am going to stand by my statement that if we want to win a championship Asik can't be our center. He is so late on help defense because he is so slow, and is the catalyst of I think 7-8 pseudo turnovers per game. While he may set good screens, his screens are not nearly as effective because there is no reason for his defender to stay true to Asik, because Asik can't catch, and because if he does catch it it takes him a year to finish or he travels. I think he is a fantastic 1 on 1 defender against big boddied big men which is great, but that single ability I don't think trumps everything else.

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I think the 7-8 number is an exaggeration. That would make him responsible for more than half our turnovers this season. That's pretty much impossible.

As for everything else, I disagree, but that is fine. My question is: You let him go this summer, what do you replace him with? The elite centers in this crop aren't coming and if you are on board with the Koufos/Ajinca people, then are you saying that those guys can be centers on a championship team, but Asik can't?

I will agree that Asik has deficiencies. What is harder for me to agree on is that we can replace him with someone better if we let him walk.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

And yet there are dozens to hundreds who interact with me on here or Twitter that do not feel like I think I am better than them. To me, it says more about the agent who feels this way than the one who is the supposed cause of this feeling.

I am 6'5". People can't make me "feel short", even taller people. Because I am secure in my height. I don't think about who I am in relation to others. Similarly, people who are secure in their intelligence never tell me that I am trying to make them feel dumb or inferior to me.

I have strong opinions, back them up, and try to engage in high end conversations where I ask others to do the same. If you don't like it, don't engage with me. Why is that so hard?

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You are Very sensitive. If you feel you've been intellectually challenged, you absolutely take it personal & make it a personal attack.
I dont dislike you. You're not important enough in my life to dislike!
I wont hold it against you that you are 6'5"
You like thinking that you are the Mensa Master & prematurely think that you are going into the converstion smarter than the person you are communicating w/
Certainly,not w/in your own circle, but behind the computer mask you are under the preconceived notion that you are the smarter one.

As I posted in 214, you think everyone is a "Casual Fan" compared to you.
As far as the Financial side of the game, you do present facts to back up your claims & I bow to you for expanding my knowledge on the subject.
But as far as subtleties of the game, you dont present facts, you present an observational hypothisis, as does everyone else. Nothing etched in stone, just opinion.
Your concept of INSECURE is silly. I dont feel insecure because you have substantially more knowledge than me in the Finance Dept. of te NBA. I listen, I learn!
You go into NO discussion thinking you can learn from another threader about anything. You are gonna show them just how wrong they are & how smart you think you are .
You talk down to those that you think you can talk down, too.
You've taught me a boatload regarding Financial intricacies, but believe me, you cant teach a lick about the subtleties of basketball.

Can we lock this thread?

The airing of grievences should be held during Festivus, or on pm. Not out here for the public to go wolf pack on somebody. You would tell somebody you have an issue with them in a private setting, correct? So why are we airing our problems out here, like it's an episode of Jerry? We are better than this. If we don't respect eachother enough handle these things in private we are no better than the animals.

Are there really people on here defending tigerdroppings? That place is quite possibly the most ignorant, backwards, racist, offensive sports forum on the web. If you want to forever lose a significant number of brain cells just wander over into the political forum for five minutes.

It is pretty much a running joke on a number of national sports forums. That's the sort of thing people are defending. I mean when I casually visited a football teams forum to get a little local insight into a player and saw a "most ignorant tigerdroppings posts" thread you can pretty much see how much of a laughing stock you are.

Please let's just move forward. My fault for engaging with those two.

Let's please talk Pels here. Not enough praise for AD & Asik for how pedestrian they made Gasol and Randolph look last night. Honest question - we get Ryno back but not Jrue, and somehow get Memphis in the playoffs; How does that series go?

This is why I only post on one forum for Pels stuff. No split loyalties from me!

Asik is a center you can win a title with if all your other parts function well. Look at the Bulls winning with Longley/Cartwright/Purdue/random tall white guy, or the Jazz teams they faced twice in the playoffs who started Greg Ostertag. Ben Wallace wasn't an offensive machine, he just played physical defense. The Spurs have been winning titles with mid tier centers since Robinson retured. The Heat started a random fan at center when they won their two titles. Sure many title winning teams started a top 1 or 2 center, but it's more often the team has one dominant big, and another big who is avg. Go and look back at NBA history, how often are both the 4 and 5 on title winning teams BOTH top ten in their positions?

We have AD. He is a dominant big. If Asik can clean a few things up with his game he will be better, but how our center unit plays, Asik certainly won't keep us out of title games. He won't win you games, but he won't be the reason you lose many.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Please let's just move forward. My fault for engaging with those two.

Let's please talk Pels here. Not enough praise for AD & Asik for how pedestrian they made Gasol and Randolph look last night. Honest question - we get Ryno back but not Jrue, and somehow get Memphis in the playoffs; How does that series go?

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I think we lose 4-2. But, next season the result would be reversed. Our lack of experience this year would be to much to overcome.

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Originally Posted by N.O.Bronco

Are there really people on here defending tigerdroppings? That place is quite possibly the most ignorant, backwards, racist, offensive sports forum on the web. If you want to forever lose a significant number of brain cells just wander over into the political forum for five minutes.

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That's offensive to ignorant, backwards, racist people.

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Originally Posted by UNO Gracias

Asik is a center you can win a title with if all your other parts function well. Look at the Bulls winning with Longley/Cartwright/Purdue/random tall white guy, or the Jazz teams they faced twice in the playoffs who started Greg Ostertag. Ben Wallace wasn't an offensive machine, he just played physical defense. The Spurs have been winning titles with mid tier centers since Robinson retured. The Heat started a random fan at center when they won their two titles. Sure many title winning teams started a top 1 or 2 center, but it's more often the team has one dominant big, and another big who is avg. Go and look back at NBA history, how often are both the 4 and 5 on title winning teams BOTH top ten in their positions?

We have AD. He is a dominant big. If Asik can clean a few things up with his game he will be better, but how our center unit plays, Asik certainly won't keep us out of title games. He won't win you games, but he won't be the reason you lose many.

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Yes..we bring a healthy Asik back, with an off season with the staff. I'm confident we'll see a better Asik.....

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Originally Posted by SaintPelican225

Yes..we bring a healthy Asik back, with an off season with the staff. I'm confident we'll see a better Asik.....

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When and how long has Asik been injuried? Im just hearing about this injury.

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Originally Posted by Silverfoxx

When and how long has Asik been injuried? Im just hearing about this injury.

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He was banged up after playing the last summer in the world games.....He missed 4 games early in the season because of an back injury. I guess the off season proved to be to much for him physically.

Looking at all centers, I guess it could be worse. MM is right, what you get for the money is about right.

It's tough to watch though, and I certainlybthought he was more athletic in the past watching him in chi.

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Originally Posted by lsutigers33

Looking at all centers, I guess it could be worse. MM is right, what you get for the money is about right.

It's tough to watch though, and I certainlybthought he was more athletic in the past watching him in chi.

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First time in his career coming off some pretty big injuries, then he has to play Int'l ball.

I am really curious to see how he looks next year with a summer off from basketball and some specific conditioning. I don't think it is a forgone conclusion that this is the exact version of Asik we would see for the next few years. Getting more acclimated with our systems and continuity with teammates will help too.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

First time in his career coming off some pretty big injuries, then he has to play Int'l ball.

I am really curious to see how he looks next year with a summer off from basketball and some specific conditioning. I don't think it is a forgone conclusion that this is the exact version of Asik we would see for the next few years. Getting more acclimated with our systems and continuity with teammates will help too.

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Except, I think he will play EuroBasket this summer. Still I think he's pretty serviceable as a starting center, my only problem with him is his inability to play with Anderson. Few years ago he was really good in terms of footspeed and blitzing pick and roll, so I kinda expected him to be able to cohabitate with both AD and Ryno. Unfortunately he's not this guy this year, so may be with health and time it will help.

Honestly I think Koufos is a better player than Asik. He is much more mobile, has good hands, and defends and rebounds at a high level. I will probably go more into depth later but I would pay Koufos more than Omer. He isnt flashy either but Koufos is a more well rounded player

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

I think the 7-8 number is an exaggeration. That would make him responsible for more than half our turnovers this season. That's pretty much impossible.

As for everything else, I disagree, but that is fine. My question is: You let him go this summer, what do you replace him with? The elite centers in this crop aren't coming and if you are on board with the Koufos/Ajinca people, then are you saying that those guys can be centers on a championship team, but Asik can't?

I will agree that Asik has deficiencies. What is harder for me to agree on is that we can replace him with someone better if we let him walk.

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"pseudo turnovers"-- i didn't say turnovers--- include horrible shots that have no chance of being made which are missed or blocked. David Wesley was talking about it watching the game, not saying that affirms they exist, but i think if we can make up things called the kobe assist, pseudo turnovers should exist as well.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

I think the 7-8 number is an exaggeration. That would make him responsible for more than half our turnovers this season. That's pretty much impossible.

As for everything else, I disagree, but that is fine. My question is: You let him go this summer, what do you replace him with? The elite centers in this crop aren't coming and if you are on board with the Koufos/Ajinca people, then are you saying that those guys can be centers on a championship team, but Asik can't?

I will agree that Asik has deficiencies. What is harder for me to agree on is that we can replace him with someone better if we let him walk.

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I didn't say there are better centers out there, all I said was I don't think we can win a championship with him. Even if we upgrade our 3 I don't think it happens. Thats why I think it is a priority to get a top dog center instead of a 3 when ever that is possible. Once again, I'm not saying that ajinca is better or koufos, all I'm saying, and i can't stress this enough, is that Asik should not be on this team the year we are trying to get to the finals. If that means he has to stay on another year or two thats fine, but with him on the court I don't think he gives us much chance.

You disagree with me about defenders not staying home against him? Which part do you disagree with? The fact that he can't catch, he travels a lot, or that he is very slow getting the ball up the rim? Next time you watch a game, watch how many turnovers asik has himself, including dropped passes that should have been caught, bobbled passes that are swiped, easily blocked shots, or out of control doesn't hit the rim wonders that never had a chance to go in in the first place.

Then watch how many times he could have helped on defense but was too slow to get over and make a difference. That is the only thing ajinca is better than asik at on defense. Ajinca albeit is also very slow, atleast can move over a little to help on penetration with his length. I would say help defense as a center in the NBA is one of the most important aspects of being a center though.

I always had the stance that Omer Asik is the least of our worries. he is the best overall center we have had since... Emeka?

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Originally Posted by UNO Gracias

Asik is a center you can win a title with if all your other parts function well. Look at the Bulls winning with Longley/Cartwright/Purdue/random tall white guy, or the Jazz teams they faced twice in the playoffs who started Greg Ostertag. Ben Wallace wasn't an offensive machine, he just played physical defense. The Spurs have been winning titles with mid tier centers since Robinson retured. The Heat started a random fan at center when they won their two titles. Sure many title winning teams started a top 1 or 2 center, but it's more often the team has one dominant big, and another big who is avg. Go and look back at NBA history, how often are both the 4 and 5 on title winning teams BOTH top ten in their positions?

We have AD. He is a dominant big. If Asik can clean a few things up with his game he will be better, but how our center unit plays, Asik certainly won't keep us out of title games. He won't win you games, but he won't be the reason you lose many.

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completely different game back then. Much slower paced, much more bruising, and you could sink down a lot more. Defense was much easier back then. Also, Micheal Jordan and Scottie Pippen helped as well as John Stockton and Karl Malone. Those guys all transcended the game. AD transcends the game, but he doesn't have a side kick who would be considered the best ever at something else.

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Originally Posted by UNO Gracias

Asik is a center you can win a title with if all your other parts function well. Look at the Bulls winning with Longley/Cartwright/Purdue/random tall white guy, or the Jazz teams they faced twice in the playoffs who started Greg Ostertag. Ben Wallace wasn't an offensive machine, he just played physical defense. The Spurs have been winning titles with mid tier centers since Robinson retured. The Heat started a random fan at center when they won their two titles. Sure many title winning teams started a top 1 or 2 center, but it's more often the team has one dominant big, and another big who is avg. Go and look back at NBA history, how often are both the 4 and 5 on title winning teams BOTH top ten in their positions?

We have AD. He is a dominant big. If Asik can clean a few things up with his game he will be better, but how our center unit plays, Asik certainly won't keep us out of title games. He won't win you games, but he won't be the reason you lose many.

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Lebron James and Dwayne wade transcended the game, they are a lot different than AD and Jrue or Tyreke. IM not saying we need a center who is ridiculously good, we just need one who isn't a negative on offense and a neutral on defense. He is a positive in rebounding. I think a center that could play with AD a little will open things up so much for AD, tyreke and Jrue, and make the inside out game a lot easier for EG. That is all

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Originally Posted by jegirouard

I always had the stance that Omer Asik is the least of our worries. he is the best overall center we have had since... Emeka?

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tyson chandler

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Originally Posted by heybigmatt

I didn't say there are better centers out there, all I said was I don't think we can win a championship with him. Even if we upgrade our 3 I don't think it happens. Thats why I think it is a priority to get a top dog center instead of a 3 when ever that is possible. Once again, I'm not saying that ajinca is better or koufos, all I'm saying, and i can't stress this enough, is that Asik should not be on this team the year we are trying to get to the finals. If that means he has to stay on another year or two thats fine, but with him on the court I don't think he gives us much chance.

You disagree with me about defenders not staying home against him? Which part do you disagree with? The fact that he can't catch, he travels a lot, or that he is very slow getting the ball up the rim? Next time you watch a game, watch how many turnovers asik has himself, including dropped passes that should have been caught, bobbled passes that are swiped, easily blocked shots, or out of control doesn't hit the rim wonders that never had a chance to go in in the first place.

Then watch how many times he could have helped on defense but was too slow to get over and make a difference. That is the only thing ajinca is better than asik at on defense. Ajinca albeit is also very slow, atleast can move over a little to help on penetration with his length. I would say help defense as a center in the NBA is one of the most important aspects of being a center though.

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I don't know how I can be more clear. I am saying that it is easy to point to all the things he does wrong, but it is hard to figure out who we get instead.

I also feel like there is some exaggeration here. Case in point, "He travels a lot". No, he doesn't. 0.4 travels per game. That is not "a lot".

At this point the microscope is so focused on Asik, and when you dislike a guy you tend to remember all the bad plays and forget the good ones. Is he great? Nope. But if he were to walk, I do not feel like this team could secure an upgrade this summer.