Game Thread: Hornets @ Thunder

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Originally Posted by nolaslim213

Dude.... Where have you been? Over the past week or so, Monty has been telling the media that he is frustrated and that there will be major changes next year. He said we don't have talent, so we have to play with energy. He said we will make major upgrades in FA, and he said a lot of guys on the team this year won't be here next year. Mondy and Dell absolutely don't "just like what they have."

Also, supposedly, Demps tried to trade Vasquez at the start of the season, but it fell through.



:hihi:

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You have a link to that trade or just spouting off? If you can prove we tried trading him at the deadline then you may be on to something with Monty and Del'a "wholesale changes" comments.

We have problems. A PG that has consistently put up double doubles is the last one.

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Originally Posted by UNO Gracias

You have a link to that trade or just spouting off? If you can prove we tried trading him at the deadline then you may be on to something with Monty and Del'a "wholesale changes" comments.

We have problems. A PG that has consistently put up double doubles is the last one.

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Joe Gerrity and Michael McNamara both said it was a trade centered around Vasques + expirings for Devin Harris.

Also, I don't think Demps wanted to trade Vasquez at the deadline because he doesn't want to take on salary, and teams will have more cap space after the season. I think he tries to move him for a draft pick OR package him with another player for a bigger piece.

U Vasquez lovers are blinded by the 8 assist per game stat. My goodness!!! The dude CANNOT STAY IN FRONT OF HIS MAN ON DEFENSE!!!! What don't u get about that?? He is a total liability on that end of the floor. He shoots more than Gordon,davis pretty much every game. He even shoots more than Ryno in many games. Dude thinks he's a 1 man army out there with his hero ball and it's not getting old. It's been old. He is a 2nd unit pg in this league and nothing more. U guys must not want to win a championship my goodness. Cause we ain't winning no dam championship with mr concrete shoes. I can tell u that right now. When he gets 3-5 of his assist a game by passing to Ryno for a 3 or a Gordon jumper why do u think that's so great?? Darren collision avg 7-8 assist under Monty in this same system. See his career after leaving here. You guys that are satisfied with having Vasquez as your starting pg just blows my mind.

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Originally Posted by kclaboy504

U Vasquez lovers are blinded by the 8 assist per game stat. My goodness!!! The dude CANNOT STAY IN FRONT OF HIS MAN ON DEFENSE!!!! What don't u get about that?? He is a total liability on that end of the floor. He shoots more than Gordon,davis pretty much every game. He even shoots more than Ryno in many games. Dude thinks he's a 1 man army out there with his hero ball and it's not getting old. It's been old. He is a 2nd unit pg in this league and nothing more. U guys must not want to win a championship my goodness. Cause we ain't winning no dam championship with mr concrete shoes. I can tell u that right now. When he gets 3-5 of his assist a game by passing to Ryno for a 3 or a Gordon jumper why do u think that's so great?? Darren collision avg 7-8 assist under Monty in this same system. See his career after leaving here. You guys that are satisfied with having Vasquez as your starting pg just blows my mind.

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Calm down. People here know Vasquez is slow and is not a good defender. I don't know if anyone is disagreeing with that. The majority of people here say he would be a good backup.

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Originally Posted by HunnyB

Calm down. People here know Vasquez is slow and is not a good defender. I don't know if anyone is disagreeing with that. The majority of people here say he would be a good backup.

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I'd agree with this, especially because of his intangibles, but at what price? If he'd sign for $4 mil/year, I'd be cool with it, but I'm not sure he wants that now that he has tasted the life of a starter.

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Originally Posted by nolaslim213

I'd agree with this, especially because of his intangibles, but at what price? If he'd sign for $4 mil/year, I'd be cool with it, but I'm not sure he wants that now that he has tasted the life of a starter.

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I guess in due time we shall see. ;)

What I like about Greivis is his size for a point guard. I guess if he were faster then maybe he would be able to stay in front of the faster point guards and that would make him a better defender. He doesn't necessarily have to make All-Defense teams or anything like that and if he had better floor vision, then I guess he might be close to perfect.

Vasquez will get traded eventually since we see rivers as the future, i just cant wait to find out for who.

I also feel GV could have more assists if he ever figured out how to run the PnR effectively, but my problem with him is defensively. I understand playing defense as a PG nowadays is tough with all the screens they run, but he on-ball defense puts our defense in a bind because other guys have to help... which kills our rotations and lead to open 3s.

And is it me? Or do teams shoot extra-well against the Hornets? I mean they have record-setting shooting days against us its mind-boggling, Guys that can't hit jumpers in a gym by themselves turn into 3-point snipers against us. Sickening I tell ya.

I haven't watched this game yet.
Is it worth watching or am I wasting my time?

Thanks

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Originally Posted by kclaboy504

U Vasquez lovers are blinded by the 8 assist per game stat. My goodness!!! The dude CANNOT STAY IN FRONT OF HIS MAN ON DEFENSE!!!! What don't u get about that?? He is a total liability on that end of the floor. He shoots more than Gordon,davis pretty much every game. He even shoots more than Ryno in many games. Dude thinks he's a 1 man army out there with his hero ball and it's not getting old. It's been old. He is a 2nd unit pg in this league and nothing more. U guys must not want to win a championship my goodness. Cause we ain't winning no dam championship with mr concrete shoes. I can tell u that right now. When he gets 3-5 of his assist a game by passing to Ryno for a 3 or a Gordon jumper why do u think that's so great?? Darren collision avg 7-8 assist under Monty in this same system. See his career after leaving here. You guys that are satisfied with having Vasquez as your starting pg just blows my mind.

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Agree 100 percent!! If we are serious about winning we need a pg with better vision than GV. The guy is just not athletic enough either to compete with most other starting pgs. He does play with alot of heart though.

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Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN

I haven't watched this game yet.
Is it worth watching or am I wasting my time?

Thanks

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Wasting your time. No Davis, Gordon, or Smith.

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Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN

I haven't watched this game yet.
Is it worth watching or am I wasting my time?

Thanks

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I'd say the up until maybe 3 or 4 minutes left in the 2nd, it's worth watching. After that point, turn it off.

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Originally Posted by kdalw1

Agree 100 percent!! If we are serious about winning we need a pg with better vision than GV. The guy is just not athletic enough either to compete with most other starting pgs. He does play with alot of heart though.

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Vision isn't the problem. Because if he has better vision, we really don't need Vasquez to play much at all.

We need someone that can defend. Or at least someone off the bench quick enough to guard at least two wing spots effectively.

I didn't watch the game last night, so I am not talking about yesterday's game in particular, but too many times this season I have seen Vasquez get a rebound around the FT line and push the ball, with guys like Davis, Aminu and Smith running the floor hard with their hand in the air, GV looks at them and then stops at the 3pt line and runs "something", letting all the defenders catch up and prepare for the play. I don't know if he is just doing what Monty is asking him to with the whole singles not home runs thing, but not even talking about the defensive side (which we all know is just awful), a good PG should see that play/lane before it is there, trust in his abilities, and just react. Now I know every team wants to keep TO's down, but we have a few wings and bigs that can put more points on the board than we do on fast breaks. We can make a thread in itself to discuss GV's defense.

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Originally Posted by HunnyB

Calm down. People here know Vasquez is slow and is not a good defender. I don't know if anyone is disagreeing with that. The majority of people here say he would be a good backup.

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No they have a few on here that think Vasquez is an above average point guard and that's just not the case. They have a few on here who get all defensive behind Vasquez.

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Originally Posted by kclaboy504

No they have a few on here that think Vasquez is an above average point guard and that's just not the case. They have a few on here who get all defensive behind Vasquez.

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Vasquez is probably somewhere in the 12-18 range of PGs in the NBA. He is average, but, I agree, people get extremely defensive when talking about him. There are holes in Vasquez's game that are near impossible to fix. We can cover them up with other players at other positions if that is the way Dell wants to go; I'm not denying that fact.

Count me as one of the Vasquez defenders. Guys hasn't shown me enough to label him problem 1. 2, or 3.

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Originally Posted by nolaslim213

I'd agree with this, especially because of his intangibles, but at what price? If he'd sign for $4 mil/year, I'd be cool with it, but I'm not sure he wants that now that he has tasted the life of a starter.

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Yeah, at this point I don't see any scenario where Vasquez is still a part of this team two years down the road.

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Originally Posted by UNO Gracias

Count me as one of the Vasquez defenders. Guys hasn't shown me enough to label him problem 1. 2, or 3.

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If he's not 1, 2, or 3 are you saying that Gordon, Aminu, and either Davis or Lopez are more of an issue that Vasquez? That's crazy talk. If he's not problem #1 he is definitely #2 behind our SF position.

I just don't see how people can say Aminu is a bigger problem than Vasquez. Aminu does everything you want and then some except for, well, actually score. He does have decent FG% numbers though. I think with a better distributor you would see Aminu get a couple more dunks a game anyway.

You can't have Aminu being what he is if you're going to start Vasquez too. Darius Miller's skillset fits better with Vasquez than Aminu's, way I see it. But for some reason Miller can't get PT over Henry.

N/H

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NT3ePwDPp-Q

:hihi:

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

But for some reason Miller can't get PT over Henry.

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Maybe Monty knows what he has with Miller, but he is just trying to make 100% sure that he's tried all he can do before cutting X this off season.??

I think as the season winds down for the Hornets we'll see more of D. MIller on the floor, I see no reason not to. IMO the story is already written for Henry and Thomes.

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Originally Posted by HunnyB

N/H

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NT3ePwDPp-Q

:hihi:

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To be fair, from the screen it did look like the shot went in. Some announcers don't watch the action on the court but a monitor.

Still. Friggin'. Hilarian.

Not a word. Don't care. Hilarian.

I'm finally on the trade Vasquez wagon.

Yeah, I really like Vasquez, he just doesn't have the speed to keep up with the big boys. When you play teams with stud guards, GV is just out of his league.

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

You can't have Aminu being what he is if you're going to start Vasquez too. Darius Miller's skillset fits better with Vasquez than Aminu's, way I see it. But for some reason Miller can't get PT over Henry.

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I can't agree with that, I like Darius as developmental prospect, but he's more of a half court player that doesn't move well with out the ball, he's a catch and shoot guy. He's not long, bottom heavy and slow footed. But there is a place for him because he can improve, streamline his build, maximize his athletic ability by living in the gym and becoming a fitness nut.

I see him as a 3pt specialist in the Nick Anderson mold.

Vasquez needs guys around him that can make up for his deficiencies, long guys who can move well with out the ball, who can get themselves open for good looks, because Vasquez can't actually create for them. Great individual defenders who can contribute to team defense by making up for Vasquez getting beat and blown by.

Like when Monty switches Aminu on to the other teams starting PG, which he has done quite a few times this season, you really couldn't do that with Darius Miller when Vasquez is getting worked.

Aminu has everything you want except for the skills of a good scorer and for me 15 lbs of muscle. That can be worked on and skills can be acquired, again your core is still incomplete and the guys you do have are a few years away, Aminu has that time.

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Originally Posted by Inner_GI

Vasquez is probably somewhere in the 12-18 range of PGs in the NBA. He is average, but, I agree, people get extremely defensive when talking about him. There are holes in Vasquez's game that are near impossible to fix. We can cover them up with other players at other positions if that is the way Dell wants to go; I'm not denying that fact.

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I can agree with the bolded.

We struggle because we don't have enough talent. Our starters are around average or slightly better for their position, but that isn't going to cut it. We need more top-flight talent. The only person that would shock me if traded is Davis. Everyone else should be actively shopped and I imagine they are.

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Originally Posted by Kibner

I can agree with the bolded.

We struggle because we don't have enough talent. Our starters are around average or slightly better for their position, but that isn't going to cut it. We need more top-flight talent. The only person that would shock me if traded is Davis. Everyone else should be actively shopped and I imagine they are.

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I think u have to include Ryno with davis on that list. He isn't going anywhere.

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Originally Posted by kclaboy504

I think u have to include Ryno with davis on that list. He isn't going anywhere.

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Nope, he is eminently tradeable as he only has a major impact on one side of the court.

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Originally Posted by Kibner

Nope, he is eminently tradeable as he only has a major impact on one side of the court.

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:zzz:

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Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar

:zzz:

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What? He doesn't make an impact defensively. I don't see how that can be a controversial statement.

Maybe I should be clear that I don't want these guys traded but that the team should be going out to see what they can get for these players. Davis is the one that I would let other teams initiate the trade talks for rather than do that myself.

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Originally Posted by Kibner

Nope, he is eminently tradeable as he only has a major impact on one side of the court.

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He rebounds and plays average defense. That's way more than other Shooting PFs usually provide. Just saying.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess you just don't watch the game the same way I do. That's cool, but I see 6 pieces on this team I want to keep:

In Order

Davis
Anderson
Rivers
Smith
Aminu
Lopez

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Originally Posted by Inner_GI

He rebounds and plays average defense. That's way more than other Shooting PFs usually provide. Just saying.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess you just don't watch the game the same way I do. That's cool, but I see 6 pieces on this team I want to keep:

In Order

Davis
Anderson
Rivers
Smith
Aminu
Lopez

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Anderson plays average man defense but terrible help defense (similar to Bargnani). And playing average defense isn't being impactful. :p

I'd still prefer to keep Anderson, too. Hell, Rivers and Aminu are my favorite players on this team. My first ever sports jersey is a Mardi Gras Rivers one that I picked up at the Nets game.

The thing about these players that we want to keep is that they are also the only ones that other teams would want. We have to give up something to get something. I would initiate trade talks with other teams for all our players except Davis.

I wouldn't be super aggressive and try to trade them as soon as possible or anything. Think about it like making a price check. Keep making inquiries on our guys every so often and see if we like any of the offers coming back.

The reason why I wouldn't do this for Davis is because I feel that he can become a generational super-star type player. You can't really get a fair trade back for that.

The other guys we have, though, are not like that and we can get fair offers that improve our team for them. Just check out the offers for them every so often and see if they would be worth our while.

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Originally Posted by Kibner

Nope, he is eminently tradeable as he only has a major impact on one side of the court.

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Anderson fits our team well, and unless you get an unrealistically good trade offer, you don't move him. We were his highest bidder in FA, and we still got him on a relatively cheap contract. It's highly unlikely that we'll get an offer on him that's worth pulling the trigger on.

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Originally Posted by Kibner

What? He doesn't make an impact defensively. I don't see how that can be a controversial statement.

Maybe I should be clear that I don't want these guys traded but that the team should be going out to see what they can get for these players. Davis is the one that I would let other teams initiate the trade talks for rather than do that myself.

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if im looking to put together a championship contending team then he is def a key piece that is retained. thats how i look at it. also the contract we have him on is EXCELLENT and prob a top 5-10 contract in the nba

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Originally Posted by SeaLegs

Anderson fits our team well, and unless you get an unrealistically good trade offer, you don't move him. We were his highest bidder in FA, and we still got him on a relatively cheap contract. It's highly unlikely that we'll get an offer on him that's worth pulling the trigger on.

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i can guarantee u that many gms are kicking themselves in the a.ss for that too...he got tagged with the CANT DO ALL THAT WITHOUT DWIGHT...well he has proven all that to be bs