Pels Off season thread

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I still can't believe John Collins and ATL haven't come to some kind of agreement.

Collins is really good!

Last season:

Age 23
30/12/2 per 100s

64.5%TS (has never shot worse than 60%TS in his career) including 40% from 3 for the second consecutive season (3.5 per game)
Better than 75% at the rim for the second consecutive year
65th in the NBA in EPM, including being pretty neutral on defense
+2.7 RAPTOR, tied with Devin Booker for 44th in the NBA

Just really top tier production for such a young player, and he's not a huge defensive liability anymore either. And this year he was playing a reduced role despite not being happy with Trae's ball dominance, still putting up those numbers. He's really good.

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He probably wants near a max.

MM can you tell us anything about what the FO is doing regarding adding on to these Trades?

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Originally Posted by Speakthetruth

You don't think its possible for a 23 year to get better as a shooter?

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Its possible but I wouldnt bet on it and Im glad the Pelicans didnt either. Zo has had a weird looking shot since forever. Last season was his best shooting percentage ever, maybe he keeps getting better but its just as likely that he regresses to his mean.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I agree.

If the options from hereon out are sign inflated, over-long contracts to players that don't deserve them, or just go forward with what we have, I'd go forward with what we have.

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I think we’re fine with what we have with 2 elite players, all-star talent Center, and two potential breakout 2nd and 3rd year Guards.

Trading that FRP has me wishing we can sign DeRozan or Oladipo on a one year/16 mill type of Julius Randle/Pels deal to make up for losing that. But I’d be fine with just re-signing Hart on a cheap one year deal and a good backup big. Our roster is really good as is.

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Originally Posted by hornetzplaya

He probably wants near a max.

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He's produced at a rate that has earned near a max. And they've improved as a team with him playing precisely that role.

Oh no, the 23 year old top 60 player putting up 20/10 on 65%TS wants near a max!

This has been a reflection of where this franchise is at the moment. You have a group of men sitting in a room and men running in and out of the room saying "wait a little longer". Five years later the same event occurs. We are in sell mode gentleman. Is this a broker group, a used dealership or a basketball franchise?

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

He's produced at a rate that has earned near a max. And they've improved as a team with him playing precisely that role.

Oh no, the 23 year old top 60 player putting up 20/10 on 65%TS wants near a max!

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Hey I didn't say he wasn't deserving. Atlanta probably doesn't think so.

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Originally Posted by SeapeaNOLA

We are such a depressive fanbase

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Look at past history, and it's not hard to imagine why.

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Originally Posted by Speakthetruth

You don't think its possible for a 23 year to get better as a shooter?

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Lonzo will be 24 when the season starts. He’s a seasoned player already. It’s possible to still improve, but $20 mill a year for four years is too much against the cap on hoping for improvement. This will be his 5th season, he’s getting paid like an AS but hasn’t played like an AS. Rather the Bulls pay than the Pels

Past history only instills apathy for me. If nothing changes and everything is truly the same, why waste my emotional energy at all? It ain't changing much. I'm just on this ride until it inevitably ends which feels like forever so I'm putting my feet up and sitting it out.

No need to be depressed.

One can only hope there is a plan here. Unknown to most of us but one about to spring. Problem is most of us just don't see it. Desperation is not a plan really.

https://youtu.be/ov-Cv2OG8e8

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Originally Posted by Speakthetruth

You don't think its possible for a 23 year to get better as a shooter?

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I think he absolutely will which he has every year and I don?t see that all the sudden coming to a vault at such a young age. Not to mention he is like 2 years into a new shooting form something he had his whole life. I think his 3pt% can hover around 40% but he can really make improvements in others areas like his FT% and FG%. Just making slight improvements on those 2 each year will be an improvement. I think the Bulls will have a pretty dynamic backcourt and Lonzo might be a better fit with their roster then he is here.

OK NolaJake don't you go getting my hopes up for Brogdon again. Damn you.

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Originally Posted by SeapeaNOLA

Past history only instills apathy for me. If nothing changes and everything is truly the same, why waste my emotional energy at all? It ain't changing much. I'm just on this ride until it inevitably ends which feels like forever so I'm putting my feet up and sitting it out.

No need to be depressed.

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Why? We currently have 2 rising super stars that are 21 and 23 years old.. We have the 2 hardest things 2 get in this league and we have some nice young players that can make some serious jumps to go along with them. We have the best core group and youngest group then we have ever had while not being tired into a bunch of expensive contracts for old players that we had to beg with $ to come here. If Zion leaves for nothing then sure don’t waste any emotional energy. We have nothing but to be excited about the future from here and I don’t see how the past has anything to do with it. Did it negatively impact the Bucks the last few years? Many teams have 1 star/superstar but the teams that have 2 stars/superstars are all older and considered super teams. I would say we are sitting in a very good position right now and building around that doesn’t happen overnight.

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Originally Posted by neworleanshoo

OK NolaJake don't you go getting my hopes up for Brogdon again. Damn you.

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Man adding Brogdon would be huge! I like our starting lineup but adding him makes me love it not only for the starters but just makes our bench and rotations that much better as well.

Grant Hill is available

Do we know what happens to our 22 pick if it doesn't convey? Or the Laker one for that matter?

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Originally Posted by AusPel

Do we know what happens to our 22 pick if it doesn't convey? Or the Laker one for that matter?

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The Laker one becomes 2 seconds. I don't know about our 22 pick.

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Originally Posted by Taker597

https://youtu.be/ov-Cv2OG8e8

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I hope there is more to come. That’s all I can say. So, the nearly $20 million guys floating out there for possible trade include Brogdon, Buddy Hield, Harrison Barnes, CJ McCollum, and Bojan Bogdanovic. Porzingis and Simmons are also likely available but out of that price range.

With us not being able to trade our 1st round pick until 2024, Buddy Hield makes the most sense at this point.

Griffin appears to be significantly emptying the chest this off season by trading the 1st rounder for Graham. This very much could be Demps 2.0 if things don’t work out.

Im not satisfied with this. Dreams of getting Brogdon have vanished...
Graham is cheap but he is not the solution. I would rather play him as 6th man. He gives us same thing Lonzo did, with worse defense. I didn't want Lonzo back so i am happy with that, and i think Sato is underrated part of that deal. However, paying a 1st to sign a player that Hornets didn't even want is quite bad.
We didn't improve defense, we didn't improve "guard attacking the rim" part of our rotation.
We have the same team we had last year, only thing that can help us is if young guys improve (NAW and Kira, since Hayes is now a big question).

All things said, im still happy we didn't throw some retarded monster contract like other teams did for Fournier/Powell/Allen...
Waiting to see what are the numbers for Temple, hopefully not more than vet min...

If the Pelicans can somehow add buddy hield, then we can declare the off-season a big success. I don?t know how possible that is at this point tho

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Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth

If the Pelicans can somehow add buddy hield, then we can declare the off-season a big success. I don?t know how possible that is at this point tho

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It's very possible to bring in Buddy.

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Originally Posted by hornetzplaya

MM can you tell us anything about what the FO is doing regarding adding on to these Trades?

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Yes, they are calling all teams involved and asking if they would like for us to add another 1st rounder or two.

If buddy has about 3 years making 20per left and we really want him then I'm confused why we just wouldn't give it to dinwiddie? Unless it means guys don't really want to come here or maybe it was the relationship with beal that made him choose washington.

Brogdon, Buddy or Barnes would be great. Seems like that could use Hart, Sato and maybe a 1st to do it for Brogdon or Buddy. Barnes just flip for Hart and Sato.

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Originally Posted by Mrakar

Im not satisfied with this. Dreams of getting Brogdon have vanished...
Graham is cheap but he is not the solution. I would rather play him as 6th man. He gives us same thing Lonzo did, with worse defense. I didn't want Lonzo back so i am happy with that, and i think Sato is underrated part of that deal. However, paying a 1st to sign a player that Hornets didn't even want is quite bad.
We didn't improve defense, we didn't improve "guard attacking the rim" part of our rotation.
We have the same team we had last year, only thing that can help us is if young guys improve (NAW and Kira, since Hayes is now a big question).

All things said, im still happy we didn't throw some retarded monster contract like other teams did for Fournier/Powell/Allen...
Waiting to see what are the numbers for Temple, hopefully not more than vet min...

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Getting rid of Bled and Adams improved our team considerable and adding JV and Graham are nice. I do agree that Graham should be the 6th man coming off the bench and we need one or two more players that could help us really compete. But I'm not really mad at what Griff has done so far.

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Originally Posted by PELSGIRL

Getting rid of Bled and Adams improved our team considerable and adding JV and Graham are nice. I do agree that Graham should be the 6th man coming off the bench and we need one or two more players that could help us really compete. But I'm not really mad at what Griff has done so far.

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I'm not mad either actually I'm quite optimistic and I don't understand why so many people are melting right now. Mistakes were made but they were corrected (who never makes mistakes?)

Right now the situation looks like that:
- ZION a rising star who will be here for at least one more contract
- Ingram an all star who wants to be here
- Graham a much cheaper version of Lonzo with less potential but I like his fit better and yes he is much cheaper and yes he seems to be happy to be a Pelican
- bunch of promising young players: NAW, Hayes. Kira, Murphy
- ZERO bad contract, zero negative assets
- we still have draft picks and swaps (if the glass man gets injured and Lakers fail it will get even better)
- we still have cap space to sign somebody and we will have flexibility in the near future

IMO we are in a very good situation and it should be exciting to be a Pels fan now

I think a Josh Hart S&T for CJ McCollum makes sense for both teams. We want scoring/shooting and blazers reportedly wanted a defensive minded guard next to Dame.

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Originally Posted by PrepP

I think a Josh Hart S&T for CJ McCollum makes sense for both teams. We want scoring/shooting and blazers reportedly wanted a defensive minded guard next to Dame.

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Do you REALLY think that makes sense for both teams or are you a Pelicans fan and want a miracle like that? Because my gut tells me that if you were a fan of literally any other team, you wouldnt think that is remotely close to fair

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Originally Posted by hornetzplaya

It's very possible to bring in Buddy.

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Originally Posted by Coreyinthe504

If buddy has about 3 years making 20per left and we really want him then I'm confused why we just wouldn't give it to dinwiddie? Unless it means guys don't really want to come here or maybe it was the relationship with beal that made him choose washington.

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Buddy is actually worth that much and Dinwiddie isn't... Hield has a career 3pt percentage of 40.6 and Dinwiddie is 31.8. I prefer what the Pelicans did in signing Graham to a reasonable contract than overpaying for Dinwiddie. And if the Pelicans can land Hield, that means we come out of free agency with a team that actually makes sense. Damn that would be awesome.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Lonzo was fine being in New Orleans. Liked his teammates and his coaches.

But he didnt want to be a 3 and D in the half court. So, no....he didnt want to be here

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I'll be curious to see how much this changes. Lavine is an incredibly high usage guy, and Vucevic was a top 30 guy in terms of usage when he got to Chicago (was a top 20 guy for Orlando). For those 26 games he was on par with Harden, BI, Ja Morant, etc. Coby White isn't a slouch with wanting the ball either. It's not like he went to a team that's lacking high usage guys.

Literally the one move I don’t care for is including the 1st. What can happen next to make giving that up too make sense? Did Griffin blink when Charlotte called his bluff? Just have to continue waiting it out.

Still. Graham is interesting. Let’s see what happens.

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Originally Posted by SonOfNOLA

Peaked as a shooter. At the rate of his improvement, Lonzo won?t be possibly worth $21 million per year until the end of the contract. Way too slow of development with our core players trying to win now. Too slow for a no. 2 overall pick when Zion is dominant from day 1, or Ingram progressing into an AS in his 2nd and 3rd year. Or even his brother Melo as a rookie

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He is 23 years old. If he were on another team and we had just acquired him. many would be raving about the player we got. However, I understand that when a player leaves, we have to justify by making ridiculous comments like he has peaked at 23.

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

LiterLly the one move I don’t care Dor is including the 1st. What can happen. Next to make giving they up too make sense? Did Griffin blink when Charlotte called his bluff? Just have to continue waiting it out.

Still. Graham is interesting. Let’s see what happens.

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There was another deal worked out for Graham and then an opportunity came up and we switched it to a protected 1st. Like I keep saying, lets let the whole thing play out and evaluate as a while. I expect Hart and Sato out and a starter plus 2-3 good reserves in over the next few days. Then we can all give our opinions as a whole

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Originally Posted by SonOfNOLA

This will be his 5th season, he?s getting paid like an AS but hasn?t played like an AS. Rather the Bulls pay than the Pels

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Might want to check NBA salaries again.

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

Money talks.

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And yet, Bobby Portis stayed in MIL for $4.5M/yr.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

There was another deal worked out for Graham and then an opportunity came up and we switched it to a protected 1st. Like I keep saying, lets let the whole thing play out and evaluate as a while. I expect Hart and Sato out and a starter plus 2-3 good reserves in over the next few days. Then we can all give our opinions as a whole

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Intrigued what this previous deal was and what opportunity arose that made us switch it to a protected first.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

There was another deal worked out for Graham and then an opportunity came up and we switched it to a protected 1st. Like I keep saying, lets let the whole thing play out and evaluate as a while. I expect Hart and Sato out and a starter plus 2-3 good reserves in over the next few days. Then we can all give our opinions as a whole

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I've been predicting this since we traded Zo. No way we restrict Hart and trade for Sato without a plan to get rid of those two at the very least. For a starter level SG maybe? Then sign Millsap and someone else. That's my prediction

They add a good wing starter and somehow they immediately win me back over. Such a strange team to follow.

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Originally Posted by PrepP

I think a Josh Hart S&T for CJ McCollum makes sense for both teams. We want scoring/shooting and blazers reportedly wanted a defensive minded guard next to Dame.

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At some point today, you're going to see Hart traded for a $20 million guy and a protected first in either 2022 or 2023

Ingles name popping up again as possibly available on Hoopshype. No ties to Pels yet but day is still young!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by DarkHornet

Intrigued what this previous deal was and what opportunity arose that made us switch it to a protected first.

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Previous deal was likely the one reported of Lonzo to the Bulls, Graham to the Pels, and Sato to the Hornets, with a few other small pieces moving around. Not sure why it seems the Pels have so much trouble keeping things in house, but they sure have had an inordinate amount of leaks this summer, from the Grizzlies trade to the Trey Murphy pick and now this Graham deal

FREE AGENCY: Using a blend of @profitxai and @johnhollinger contract analytics, here's how newly-inked deals compare to their projections:

Below AAV projection = blue!
Above AAV projection = red! pic.twitter.com/OzU4AJ9rd1

— Tom Haberstroh (@tomhaberstroh) August 3, 2021

We're gonna look back on this Graham deal in 4 years and think it was an absolute steal. So surprised that, for now, there's no PO. Now the question is whether the acquisition cost was worth it. We'll find out in the next 36 hours

Ingles and Mills pls

Brad Daugherty on NBA radio right now criticizing Chicago for giving Lonzo that much money. Says Lonzo can't even get his own shot. He also simultaneously criticized New Orleans because "I have no idea what they're doing". LOL

Also said he doesn't think either team got better from this deal. Yeah. Duh. New Orleans isn't going to get better purely from letting Lonzo go for 2 bench players. They also don't get better by bringing him back, so what's the point of that comment? You can't look at their entire offseason based off that one transaction.

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Originally Posted by RobertM320

And yet, Bobby Portis stayed in MIL for $4.5M/yr.

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Odd outlier. The expectation is that there is a promise to pay him when they get bird rights. Huge risk for him though. Porter took less from Warriors as well to try and increase his future value.

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Originally Posted by pelafanatic

Previous deal was likely the one reported of Lonzo to the Bulls, Graham to the Pels, and Sato to the Hornets, with a few other small pieces moving around. Not sure why it seems the Pels have so much trouble keeping things in house, but they sure have had an inordinate amount of leaks this summer, from the Grizzlies trade to the Trey Murphy pick and now this Graham deal

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It was also reported at one time that Markannen was going to Hornets. Maybe they could not reach an agreement with him if that was the case.

I don't really care what anyone thinks about our offseason. At the end of the day, if the Pelicans can put together a complimentary roster for Zion and BI, add the necessary spacing, IQ, ball security, free throw shooting, and defense, I will feel really good about this squad. I am hoping we field an offense as one of the top spacing offenses in the league. I'm patiently waiting for the next several moves to judge Griffin and Langdon on their vision for this offseason.