Pels Off season thread

Lonzo was fine being in New Orleans. Liked his teammates and his coaches.

But he didnt want to be a 3 and D in the half court. So, no....he didnt want to be here

i feel like unless the pels explode next year, they put themselves in a lose-lose situation with this move. Just barely make the playoffs and you traded a pick in the teens for a guy who didnt change the team trajectory, miss the playoffs you keep the pick but the offseason was an abject failure because you traded a frp and 7 spots to be in the exact same spot you would have been sitting on your hands.

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

Money talks.

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For real. I believe that Lonzo wanted to be here. And by that I mean, I believe that if the Pelicans had just given Lonzo everything he wanted, he would have stayed.

But he wanted to play the lead guard for 4 years, $20m+ a year, and a Player Option. Chicago was willing to give it to him, we weren't.

He wanted to be here, but he didn't want to be here more than he wanted 20 million dollars and a player option at the PG position. Which is fine, but let's not kid ourselves.

No way that this is the last move of Pelicans FA

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Originally Posted by SonOfNOLA

No way this is the last move of Pelicans FA

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I mean, it literally can't be, Hart still hasn't signed somewhere lmao

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I mean, it literally can't be, Hart still hasn't signed somewhere lmao

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I can’t see how the Pels would end FA with this being the only significant signing or trade since FA began

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Originally Posted by Pelifan

i feel like unless the pels explode next year, they put themselves in a lose-lose situation with this move. Just barely make the playoffs and you traded a pick in the teens for a guy who didnt change the team trajectory, miss the playoffs you keep the pick but the offseason was an abject failure because you traded a frp and 7 spots to be in the exact same spot you would have been sitting on your hands.

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Waste another year of elite seems par for the course.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I mean, it literally can't be, Hart still hasn't signed somewhere (else) lmao

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Fixed that for ya. :P

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Originally Posted by JunkHead

Fixed that for ya. :P

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I mean, I'm hoping S&T

Also, while I am not one of these people, if you're one of the people who believe Vinson can just automatically improve any shooter, then you should be hyped about getting him in the gym with Devonte.

Graham shot better than 37% both of the last two years on insane volume, 12.5 per 100 in 19-20 and 14.0 per 100 in 20-21. Top 5 in per 100 volume among players who qualified in minutes.

If you believe Vinson can make anyone a better shooter, then just imagine Graham +3% from 3 on that volume. Insanity.

I like Graham. I hate to lose Zo, but I do like Graham.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I mean, I'm hoping S&T

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Gotcha

Graham averaged 9.9 potential assists on only 53 passes made per game last season. For comparison, Lonzo was 9.2 potential assists on 59 passes made per game. He has great vision and has never had anything like Zion or BI to pass to.

— Austin Robert (@Rowbear32) August 3, 2021

I like Graham a lot - but I do hate giving up a 1st when we basically got nothing for Lonzo. Dems the breaks but it sure feels like we're losing the GM game...

Paul Millsap?

Is it possible that we could still sign someone like Reggie Jackson? Graham may not be an upgrade over Ball, but he did sign for half the price

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Originally Posted by SonOfNOLA

No way that this is the last move of Pelicans FA

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Can't be. Looking at our cap, we have a lot of room under the tax. Could we overpay for Dinwiddie? Derozan?

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

Can't be. Looking at our cap, we have a lot of room under the tax. Could we overpay for Dinwiddie? Derozan?

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S&T Hart for Joe Ingles

>_>
<_<

The dream is alive

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Yeah, just totally disagree here. I've said since at least January that I wouldn't pay a cent more than $18m a year for Lonzo and that's true today. You don't pay $20m+ for complimentary wings unless they are elite and Lonzo is not.

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That is a totally different argument than your 1st. And I disagree with both.

Fair point about the salary. Lonzo will be one of the highest paid non-all star wings in the league next year. Only Heild, Powell, Brogdon, and CJ make more on non-albatrosses contracts.

But Ball is only slightly behind Barnes, Vanvleet, Lavine, and Grant annually. And Sexton, Lavine, Smart, Rozier, and Gordon could all pass him next year. the salaries continue to go up and this year has actually seen a slight stagnation in market costs. Good year to sign long term deals.

My point is that losing a under 25 year old solid starter for nothing is not good team building.

Hopefully grif has something I don’t see yet up his sleeve.

Free agent center Richaun Holmes has agreed to a four-year deal worth as much as $55 million to return to the Sacramento Kings, his agency Par-Lay Sports & Entertainment (@parlay_se) tells @TheAthletic @Stadium. Deal includes player option and trade kicker.

— Shams Charania (@ShamsCharania) August 3, 2021

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

S&T Hart for Joe Ingles

>_>
<_<

The dream is alive

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Joe Ingles isn't that great at the 4. What you trying to accomplish? BI at the 2?

Possibly unders for Holmes

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Originally Posted by Taker597

Paul Millsap?

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He would be a really nice fit on this team on the cheap if the Nuggets allow him to leave.

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Originally Posted by Savvy_Bird

That is a totally different argument than your 1st. And I disagree with both.

Fair point about the salary. Lonzo will be one of the highest paid non-all star wings in the league next year. Only Heild, Powell, Brogdon, and CJ make more on non-albatrosses contracts.

But Ball is only slightly behind Barnes, Vanvleet, Lavine, and Grant annually. And Sexton, Lavine, Smart, Rozier, and Gordon could all pass him next year. the salaries continue to go up and this year has actually seen a slight stagnation in market costs. Good year to sign long term deals.

My point is that losing a under 25 year old solid starter for nothing is not good team building.

Hopefully grif has something I don’t see yet up his sleeve.

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I also hope there is another move to be made.

In fairness as well, it's worth stating that Buddy's deal is actually declining so while he'll be paid more than Lonzo this upcoming season, he'll actually be paid less each season after that.

I also think CJ is overpaid, and that extra year on Powell's new contract is nasty.

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Originally Posted by Taker597

Joe Ingles isn't that great at the 4. What you trying to accomplish? BI at the 2?

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Screw it, why not?

Also, BI doesn't play 48 minutes a game.

Edit: this is partially joking, but in reality what I mean is, I don't really care about nominal positions. Both Ingles and BI can shoot, pass, and handle somewhat. They can both C&S and run a PnR. I don't really care which of them is technically playing which position, but they can take the floor alongside each other in my opinion.

Devonte Graham is who we end up with? Very underwhelmed, but that's the kind of free agents I expected to pull. Disappointed we didn't just draft Sharife Cooper he was there in the 2nd round. I think a lot of teams are going to kick themselves for passing on that kid. He walks into the league as a top 5-7 combination of ball handler and passes. Kids vision, handles, and passing are all elite already.

actually im not going to stress too much about a FRP. doesnt really matter when Tomas "czech jordan" Satoransky is going to make sure that's pick 30 anyway.

Holmes and his agent, Pedro Power, reached agreement with the Kings tonight. Sacramento has its starting center back. https://t.co/nAbzySlPJ0

— Shams Charania (@ShamsCharania) August 3, 2021

PEDRO POWER.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

Devonte Graham is who we end up with? Very underwhelmed, but that's the kind of free agents I expected to pull. Disappointed we didn't just draft Sharife Cooper he was there in the 2nd round. I think a lot of teams are going to kick themselves for passing on that kid. He walks into the league as a top 5-7 combination of ball handler and passes. Kids vision, handles, and passing are all elite already.

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^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Speakin' my language. sHARIFE!

He has to be moving Hart right in a S&T? Can't imagine we are done.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Screw it, why not?

Also, BI doesn't play 48 minutes a game.

Edit: this is partially joking, but in reality what I mean is, I don't really care about nominal positions. Both Ingles and BI can shoot, pass, and handle somewhat. They can both C&S and run a PnR. I don't really care which of them is technically playing which position, but they can take the floor alongside each other in my opinion.

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Well, if we are gonna abandon defense. Might as well just get lights out shooter. Feels like we are going back to Gentry logic. Atleast he's not a guard, I suppose.

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Originally Posted by Taker597

Well, if we are gonna abandon defense. Might as well just get lights out shooter. Feels like we are going back to Gentry logic. Atleast he's not a guard, I suppose.

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Ingles is a perfectly fine team defender! 80th percentile in D-EPM last year. Positive DBPM, +0.5 D-RAPTOR. He's not going to make any all-D teams but he's not bad at all. Good hands, generally solid positioning, decent footwork, knows where to be.

We're definitely not done. We have two trade that haven't been finalized yet with tradable players. So within the next day, we'll see what's gone happen. Plus with still a good amount of money (under the tax) left over we can still sign pretty decent FA's.

So, after this tank season we will have:

Brandon Ingram - 32mil
Zion Williamson - 13mil
Devonte Graham - 13mil
Jaxson Hayes - 7mil
Kira Lewis - 4mil
Nickeil Alexander-Walker - 5mil
Naji Marshall - 2mil
Trey Murphy III - 2.5mil

~78mil on the books and it will be our last chance to land a big name FA before Zion's max hits the books.

Obviously still more signings to happen, but just some perspective on what the longer game may look like and why Griff went for a cheaper guy in Graham.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Ingles is a perfectly fine team defender! 80th percentile in D-EPM last year. Positive DBPM, +0.5 D-RAPTOR. He's not going to make any all-D teams but he's not bad at all. Good hands, generally solid positioning, decent footwork, knows where to be.

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But we don't have perfectly fine team defenders. The vibe from what I'm getting is that we are about to be an awful defensive team with a blackhole bench... Again.

But I digress on that.

I wonder what happens to Derozan.


I guess there is no market for Derozan. I wonder what he'll go or even get for... Anti-clutch, can't shoot 3s, and poor defender.

Unsigned NBA free agents include:
DeRozan
Dinwiddie
Kawhi (listening but prolly LAC)
Schroder
Melo
Monk
Oubre
Reggie Jax
John Collins
Lauri
Blake
Drummond
Kieff
Iggy
Dipo
Otto
Hassan
Torrey
D Green
Patty
Lou Wil
Bruce Brown
Hart
Avery B
Frank N
Elf
Taj
Theo

— New York Basketball (@NBA_NewYork) August 3, 2021

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Originally Posted by Taker597

But we don't have perfectly fine team defenders. The vibe from what I'm getting is that we are about to be an awful defensive team with a blackhole bench... Again.

But I digress on that.

I wonder what happens to Derozan.

I guess there is no market for Derozan. I wonder what he'll go or even get for... Anti-clutch, can't shoot 3s, and poor defender.

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Eh, Idk. Kira and NAW both showed signs last year that they can defend alright - they were inconsistent, but there's moments. Zion wasn't a plus but he's certainly not as bad as people sometimes say, if he takes a normal step he'll probably be fine. Valanciunas is a good defender if used properly, and Naji/Trey/Herb is honestly a pretty solid defensive wing trio, though obviously who gets minutes is up in the air as of yet. Jax, again, lots of defensive progress last year, I have positive thoughts for him this season (assuming things go well and he's playing).

Basically what I'm saying is that I don't think we'll be an elite defensive team but I think we have the pieces to be at least okay. Not bottom 5 again :hihi: Maybe like, 16th in the league or something. Just fine.

You know, I know most people haven't really watched the Spurs recently because ... y'know, why would you? But DeRozan actually made some good strides in recent years. Wouldn't like his fit on this team, but he's good at basketball!

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Originally Posted by hornetzplaya

Unsigned NBA free agents include:
DeRozan
Dinwiddie
Kawhi (listening but prolly LAC)
Schroder
Melo
Monk
Oubre
Reggie Jax
John Collins
Lauri
Blake
Drummond
Kieff
Iggy
Dipo
Otto
Hassan
Torrey
D Green
Patty
Lou Wil
Bruce Brown
Hart
Avery B
Frank N
Elf
Taj
Theo

— New York Basketball (@NBA_NewYork) August 3, 2021

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Malik Monk

Free agent F Semi Ojeleye has agreed to a one-year deal with the Milwaukee Bucks, his agent Sean Kennedy of @excelbasketball tells ESPN.

— Adrian Wojnarowski (@wojespn) August 3, 2021

Bucks repeating now

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Devonte Graham (''not really a playmaker'') this year: 27%AST, 10%TOV
Lonzo Ball (the next Magic Johnson) this year: 25%AST, 14%TOV

okay.

Devonte is also, I repeat, a much better defender than some people seem to think. 68th percentile in D-EPM this year, +0.2. For comparison, Lonzo was +0.7 this year, 77th percentile. Not a huge amount better.

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People having problems with this trade but apparently being ok with paying Lonzo 20 mil a year genuinely confuse me.

Hart + picks in a double S&T for DeRozan?

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Originally Posted by hornetzplaya

We're definitely not done. We have two trade that haven't been finalized yet with tradable players. So within the next day, we'll see what's gone happen. Plus with still a good amount of money (under the tax) left over we can still sign pretty decent FA's.

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But FA has been open for almost 6 hours....we must be done

Otto Porter for part of the MLE would be nice. Wonder if we are looking to trade for Barnes. He could play backup BI and Zion or play in a lineup with both. He is a good veteran presence, good defender and shooter. He fills a need. However, unless they are just looking to unload his contract or really like Hart, could be a tough deal to pull off.

Excited to have you @Devonte4Graham!! New Orleans will welcome you with open arms! pic.twitter.com/3Ly9BNJIld

— Pelicans Discord (@PelicansDiscord) August 3, 2021

Oh look, someone who actually seems like they want to be here

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Originally Posted by Funcrusher

People having problems with this trade but apparently being ok with paying Lonzo 20 mil a year genuinely confuse me.

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Yeah it's weird. I get being annoyed with the first, I really do, but overall it's really not that bad. It's not like Graham is useless or something, and he's not expensive, and the fit makes sense.

I'm fine with today's dealings. Even the lotto protection on the Graham is deep enough. I'd be literally sick if they had signed Lonzo for that Chicago contract here.

Now if they can top it off with adding Dinwiddie at less than $20 mil count me satisfied. Buddy Heild is probably a pipe dream.

Dinwiddie/Graham/Kira/NAW would be a pretty material transformation of the weakest part of this team last year and a solid guard rotation with upside. You could even hold Dinwiddie out of b2b games and have a good excuse to give Kira those minutes.

Plus more if you want to go small. I don't expect Satoransky to stick around.

I'll always root for a guy happy to be in New Orleans https://t.co/Cg1HxXaMQJ

— Shamit Dua (@FearTheBrown) August 3, 2021

If we can get a couple more bigs. I'd like to have better size. I'd be pretty content.



*Make it almost mathematically impossible to play 4 guard line ups.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Excited to have you @Devonte4Graham!! New Orleans will welcome you with open arms! pic.twitter.com/3Ly9BNJIld

— Pelicans Discord (@PelicansDiscord) August 3, 2021

Oh look, someone who actually seems like they want to be here

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Him and Trey Murphy. Lol.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

Devonte Graham is who we end up with? Very underwhelmed, but that's the kind of free agents I expected to pull. Disappointed we didn't just draft Sharife Cooper he was there in the 2nd round. I think a lot of teams are going to kick themselves for passing on that kid. He walks into the league as a top 5-7 combination of ball handler and passes. Kids vision, handles, and passing are all elite already.

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Sharife can't shoot, but we still should have taken him