AD trade scenarios...

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Originally Posted by Pels4Life

Great 1st post...im with you little buddy.

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If we pass up Garland I'll cry real tears.

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Originally Posted by ML127

If we pass up Garland I'll cry real tears.

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Prepare to sob.

It's interesting that details of a potential Lakers deal have been leaked. That means either it's false, someone is loose lipped, or someone is driving an agenda.

The back and forth of trades that happen rarely get accurately spread around this way.

It's fun though.

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Originally Posted by Gant-

It's interesting that details of a potential Lakers deal have been leaked. That means either it's false, someone is loose lipped, or someone is driving an agenda.

The back and forth of trades that happen rarely get accurately spread around this way.

It's fun though.

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The Pelicans have a completely new FO, and the Lakers deal is still spilling everywhere.

Meanwhile, we know Boston are in negotiations but we have no idea what's being offered.

Sounds to me like the Lakers are just being messy and incompetent again.

If Lakers can trade Ball and future firsts for Beal then i would be ok with Ingram, Beal, and #4. That’d be about the only way i’d deal with Lakers


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Originally Posted by Sleeper

If Lakers can trade Ball and future firsts for Beal then i would be ok with Ingram, Beal, and #4. That’d be about the only way i’d deal with Lakers


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Definitely gonna need to figure what do with Ingram and his 2nd contract. Can gas him up and trade him at the deadline for future picks as well.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

The Pelicans have a completely new FO, and the Lakers deal is still spilling everywhere.

Meanwhile, we know Boston are in negotiations but we have no idea what's being offered.

Sounds to me like the Lakers are just being messy and incompetent again.

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That's most likely.

a 2020 pick in the mix would be nice...maybe a 2nd round we can use to combine with other picks next year to move up

Do we even know what the Lakers coach thinks about trading these pieces away?

Heheh

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Originally Posted by msusousaphone

Do we even know what the Lakers coach thinks about trading these pieces away?

Heheh

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wouldn't surprise me if they are all in discussions ...if not they dumb. I'm sure Griff and crew all talking.

I’m told that the Lakers contingent is irate that trade intricacies and specific names were leaked, yet again, by Pels front office. Lakers contingent believe this is being done by Pels to prop up AD’s trade value.

— Arye Abraham (@arye_abraham) June 12, 2019

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

If that is their offer, it concerns me that Boston must not have much of an offer thus far. If the Lakers have not even put everything in, they must not feel they have much competition.

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I think Boston is not wanting to part with Tatum they holding that back I think that’s why Griffin is waiting as soon as Ainge hands over Tatum deal gets done they playing hardball right now .


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Originally Posted by Gant-

I’m told that the Lakers contingent is irate that trade intricacies and specific names were leaked, yet again, by Pels front office. Lakers contingent believe this is being done by Pels to prop up AD’s trade value.

— Arye Abraham (@arye_abraham) June 12, 2019

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Completely disagree.

Lakers trade leaked back in February. Everyone blamed Dell Demps. It's now been made clear it wasn't Dell's fault.

Entire Pels FO changes, Lakers trade still leaks.

What's the common factor? Lakers incompetent FO. Notice we haven't heard anything about what the Boston deal is. Why? Boston has a functional FO.

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Originally Posted by Pels4Life

wouldn't surprise me if they are all in discussions ...if not they dumb. I'm sure Griff and crew all talking.

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In all the excitement, I forgot they settled on Vogel. Fail. :(

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Originally Posted by Gant-

I’m told that the Lakers contingent is irate that trade intricacies and specific names were leaked, yet again, by Pels front office. Lakers contingent believe this is being done by Pels to prop up AD’s trade value.

— Arye Abraham (@arye_abraham) June 12, 2019

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Damn Dell, you ain't even employed anymore and you're still leaking names???

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Welcome to the forum!

Lots of question marks surrounding Garland. Only played 5 games, isn't a fantastic passer, can't/won't defend, not massively athletic.

His one real skill is that he can shoot. There are even question marks about that though: his guide hand doesn't do much, and his release point is pretty low. Obviously that could change in the NBA, and he has the touch to make it work, but I don't know if his ceiling is as high as you suggest.

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Totally get that aspect of it. But his shooting is just so good, and he's still so young. I think he's a good enough athlete. Not Westbrook level, but no worse than say Lillard level.

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Originally Posted by ML127

Totally get that aspect of it. But his shooting is just so good, and he's still so young. I think he's a good enough athlete. Not Westbrook level, but no worse than say Lillard level.

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That's fair. I wouldn't mind him too much at #6, but I feel like at #4 Culver is a much better option. He's a little older, sure, but he's played so many more games that we can judge him a little more fairly. His size, length, defensive ability, and smooth game look like they're going to translate well to the NBA.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Completely disagree.

Lakers trade leaked back in February. Everyone blamed Dell Demps. It's now been made clear it wasn't Dell's fault.

Entire Pels FO changes, Lakers trade still leaks.

What's the common factor? Lakers incompetent FO. Notice we haven't heard anything about what the Boston deal is. Why? Boston has a functional FO.

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Ask Kendrick Perkins what he thinks of Dell Demps. I hope Griff adds Perk to the staff!


Anyway the players hated Demps. Fact!

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Originally Posted by 13 - 3

Ask Kendrick Perkins what he thinks of Dell Demps. I hope Griff adds Perk to the staff!

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This is not an attempt to defend Dell. I'm not getting into this discussion with you AGAIN.

We know that Dell didn't leak the info back in February. That's the ONLY point I'm making.

Whether you think he was great or horrible other than that doesn't matter.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

That's fair. I wouldn't mind him too much at #6, but I feel like at #4 Culver is a much better option. He's a little older, sure, but he's played so many more games that we can judge him a little more fairly. His size, length, defensive ability, and smooth game look like they're going to translate well to the NBA.

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My question on defensive ability is, is is it lack of ability, or lack of desire? I think it might be the latter, we'll see in the NBA. Remember, Lonzo Ball had a horrible defensive rep coming into the league, and he's turned into one of the better defenders at his position (when healthy).

My thing about Garland is, he's like the prototype of the type of guard that is successful in today's NBA. These flashy scorers like Dame. Pairing him at Lonzo in the backcourt would be sick.

I like Culver, but I feel his athleticism will cap his potential, and I have questions about his shooting. I wouldn't hate the pick though.

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Originally Posted by ML127

My question on defensive ability is, is is it lack of ability, or lack of desire? I think it might be the latter, we'll see in the NBA. Remember, Lonzo Ball had a horrible defensive rep coming into the league, and he's turned into one of the better defenders at his position (when healthy).

My thing about Garland is, he's like the prototype of the type of guard that is successful in today's NBA. These flashy scorers like Dame. Pairing him at Lonzo in the backcourt would be sick.

I like Culver, but I feel his athleticism will cap his potential, and I have questions about his shooting. I wouldn't hate the pick though.

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''Pairing him at Lonzo in the backcourt would be sick''

And where's Jrue, just vanished? Come on.

The thing about Lonzo and defense is that he always had the tools to defend. He's a PG who's 6'5 with a 6'8 wingspan. The potential for defense was always there. Garland is 6'3 and his wingspan is 6'4.5. He doesn't have that natural size advantage over most PGs that Lonzo has. For undersized defenders, the way you really get the advantage is with gritty hard work and high IQ. Garland doesn't seem, from the small sample size we had in college, to care much about defense, and doesn't seem to have natural instinct for it.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

''Pairing him at Lonzo in the backcourt would be sick''

And where's Jrue, just vanished? Come on.

The thing about Lonzo and defense is that he always had the tools to defend. He's a PG who's 6'5 with a 6'8 wingspan. The potential for defense was always there. Garland is 6'3 and his wingspan is 6'4.5. He doesn't have that natural size advantage over most PGs that Lonzo has. For undersized defenders, the way you really get the advantage is with gritty hard work and high IQ. Garland doesn't seem, from the small sample size we had in college, to care much about defense, and doesn't seem to have natural instinct for it.

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I'm wondering if Jrue is going to want to stick around for the youth movement. He's 29 and can be an asset via trade for a contending team.

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Originally Posted by ML127

I'm wondering if Jrue is going to want to stick around for the youth movement. He's 29 and can be an asset via trade for a contending team.

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Prepare to get scolded for wanting to trade Holiday.

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Originally Posted by ML127

I'm wondering if Jrue is going to want to stick around for the youth movement. He's 29 and can be an asset via trade for a contending team.

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The team has been preeeeeeetty adamant that they're not trading Jrue over the last couple of months. Given that his contract extends for multiple years, he won't be going anywhere unless he personally requests a trade. And given the fact that he's seemed pretty happy to embrace the idea of being the leader of the team, I don't see that happening.

Yes, it's true that he could possibly bring in good assets, but when you're bringing in a lot of youth you need good, intelligent, patient, and disciplined vets to guide them and bring them into their own. Jrue is the perfect guy to be that influence and leader.

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Originally Posted by MistaWhoDat

I think Boston is not wanting to part with Tatum they holding that back I think that’s why Griffin is waiting as soon as Ainge hands over Tatum deal gets done they playing hardball right now .


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And if he has not included Tatum at this point, Griffin may just be using Boston as leverage against the Lakers to get them to add another asset. Doesn't feel like Boston is all that serious or a deal would be done by now with them. I hope I am wrong.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...k-ad-deal-pels

Woj story:

''The Brooklyn Nets and LA Clippers are two teams with interest in Davis who've been able to gather traction in conversations with New Orleans, league sources said.''

''Davis' agent, Rich Paul of Klutch Sports, has indicated publicly and privately to the Celtics that Davis would leave Boston in free agency in 2020, essentially becoming a one-year rental for the Celtics.

Nevertheless, Boston is still determined to trade for Davis, a six-time All-Star and three-time All-NBA selection, and hope that he can be a lure to keep All-Star guard Kyrie Irving from leaving in free agency.

Irving had discussed the possibility of joining Kevin Durant as a free agent in either New York or Brooklyn, sources said, but Durant has been lost for the 2019-20 season after surgery to repair a ruptured right Achilles tendon.''

Some key quotes

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Originally Posted by 13 - 3

Prepare to get scolded for wanting to trade Holiday.

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He's new.

You should know better. :D

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

''Pairing him at Lonzo in the backcourt would be sick''

And where's Jrue, just vanished? Come on.

The thing about Lonzo and defense is that he always had the tools to defend. He's a PG who's 6'5 with a 6'8 wingspan. The potential for defense was always there. Garland is 6'3 and his wingspan is 6'4.5. He doesn't have that natural size advantage over most PGs that Lonzo has. For undersized defenders, the way you really get the advantage is with gritty hard work and high IQ. Garland doesn't seem, from the small sample size we had in college, to care much about defense, and doesn't seem to have natural instinct for it.

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Ehhh, I could be down for Garland. Shooter is a big need at the moment. We aren't aiming for a defensive build if we take the Lakers deal, anyways. So, we might aswell get the best shooter in the draft even if his sample size is super small.

I had my hopes for a more defensive structure team and picks going the Knicks route, but it looks DOA.

I wonder what kickstarted the Woj tweet.

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Originally Posted by Taker597

Ehhh, I could be down for Garland. Shooter is a big need at the moment. We aren't aiming for a defensive build if we take the Lakers deal, anyways. So, we might aswell get the best shooter in the draft even if his sample size is super small.

I had my hopes for a more defensive structure team and picks going the Knicks route, but it looks DOA.

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We kind of need to go for a defensive build. Jrue is a good scorer, but he's a defender at heart. Zion is an offensive dynamo, but his defense is top tier.

Good NBA teams play defense. The only team with a top 5 record this year without being a top 10 defense was Golden State.

Toronto has dominated Golden State in these finals through having a far superior defense. If ''we aren't aiming for a defensive build'', then we aren't aiming to win basketball games.

Edit: as a side note, as a fan, I also want my basketball team to be fun to watch. There's nothing less fun and more frustrating than watching a bunch of idiots run around like headless chickens on D and get bombed on.

Griffin's action are concerning me in terms of team building. Holiday should be on the trading block. We should not be actively seeking anything but draft picks and rookie contracts.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

The team has been preeeeeeetty adamant that they're not trading Jrue over the last couple of months. Given that his contract extends for multiple years, he won't be going anywhere unless he personally requests a trade. And given the fact that he's seemed pretty happy to embrace the idea of being the leader of the team, I don't see that happening.

Yes, it's true that he could possibly bring in good assets, but when you're bringing in a lot of youth you need good, intelligent, patient, and disciplined vets to guide them and bring them into their own. Jrue is the perfect guy to be that influence and leader.

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I don't want to move him. But I'm just thinking of hypotheticals and how that conversation with him could change once we re-shape the team centered around a bunch of core players under age 22-23.

Didn't we already figure out that Klutch/Lakers leak to Shams, and Griff has been feeding info to Woj?

So if in a Woj report, we know the Lakers are offering their three best assets, but don't know who Boston is offering, isn't it safe to assume that Griff is leaking this to get Boston to offer more?

I mean we just said 2 days ago that Griff/Pels are obviously Woj's source. Now we're flip flopping on that because what we want to believe doesn't fit our narrative.

The KD injury and the ability to still pay Kyrie a 5 year max has cracked the door open for Boston to still make a respectable offer... But it's not enough. Yet.

Opposite perspective

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&sour...60461239923885

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

Griffin's action are concerning me in terms of team building. Holiday should be on the trading block. We should not be actively seeking anything but draft picks and rookie contracts.

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Teams with a lot of youth need vets to guide them.

We already have a ton of youth on the team, in terms of Frank Jackson, Christian Wood, Kenrich Williams. Zion Williamson will be joining that group pretty soon, and whether he ends up in LA, Boston, or New York, the AD trade will bring in even more youth.

We are going to have 6 or 7 players under the age of 24 by the time AD is traded and the draft is over. Vet leadership is vital: we don't need to trade Jrue for more youth. It's no good having 9 players under 24 instead of 7 if the cost is losing all your intelligent veteran leadership.

Knicks: AD

Suns: Dennis Smith Jr

Pels: Josh Jackson, Mitchell Robinson, Frank Nlitikina, Kevin Knox, RJ Barrett, & Knicks & Mavs 2021

I would be fine with that cause I like getting two 2021 picks due to a loaded draft that year. I would take either Josh Jackson or Miles Bridges from the Suns. The Suns need a point guard, so Smith may be good enough since he’s a starting caliber point guard. I would try to get another pick, but 3 first rounders is alot considering the 2021 draft may be really special. I think RJ Barrett will be a stud and maybe Josh Jackson will be with more minutes. The Suns are stacked at the 3. In this scenario Jrue would likely have to play point guard.

C: Robinson
PF: Zion
SF: Jackson, Knox
SG: RJ
PG: Jrue, Frank

I think I still like the Celtics or Lakers trade possibilities, but I honestly think RJ Barrett has the chance to be as special as Zion. I think he could be the best player out of anyone listed in trade possibilities. He did lead Duke in scoring and was seen as the best recruit coming out over Zion. Plus it would have to make both those guys extremely happy to be playing together in the NBA.

What was that? More leverage you said? pic.twitter.com/JoLkXcYNMv

— The Bird Writes (@thebirdwrites) June 12, 2019

Was a lede buried in the article about LA/Boston being deep in negotiations.

Seems we have more leverage than some assume.

Here. We. Go!

Can the Lakers some how turn pick #4 into Bradley Beal?
CJ McCollum?
Rudy Gobert?
DeMar DeRozan?
��
My bet, AD headed to #Celtics as soon as tonight. pic.twitter.com/dJoAOI2HRo

— Fletcher Mackel (@FletcherWDSU) June 12, 2019

It's Fletch, so.... it's Fletch.

But there you go.

Attachment 6420

I made a thing.....my current fantasy.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Here. We. Go!

Can the Lakers some how turn pick #4 into Bradley Beal?
CJ McCollum?
Rudy Gobert?
DeMar DeRozan?
��
My bet, AD headed to #Celtics as soon as tonight. pic.twitter.com/dJoAOI2HRo

— Fletcher Mackel (@FletcherWDSU) June 12, 2019

It's Fletch, so.... it's Fletch.

But there you go.

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Fletch has turned his sourcing around more recently, but he does say "my bet," which indicates this is a hunch, speculation, not really anything he has heard.

For what it's worth I think Boston is more in play than people realize as well.

Lakers have a lot more to lose and with Durant down, Lebron wanting to win now, not when he is 36, if the Lakers don't get AD now they probably won't get him next season either. Ainge is probably smart enough to realize this as well.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Here. We. Go!

Can the Lakers some how turn pick #4 into Bradley Beal?
CJ McCollum?
Rudy Gobert?
DeMar DeRozan?
��
My bet, AD headed to #Celtics as soon as tonight. pic.twitter.com/dJoAOI2HRo

— Fletcher Mackel (@FletcherWDSU) June 12, 2019

It's Fletch, so.... it's Fletch.

But there you go.

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I think if Ainge was offering Tatum , Brown and Smart this thing would be done don’t you ?? Worries me they trying to keep Tatum


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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

Didn't we already figure out that Klutch/Lakers leak to Shams, and Griff has been feeding info to Woj?

So if in a Woj report, we know the Lakers are offering their three best assets, but don't know who Boston is offering, isn't it safe to assume that Griff is leaking this to get Boston to offer more?

I mean we just said 2 days ago that Griff/Pels are obviously Woj's source. Now we're flip flopping on that because what we want to believe doesn't fit our narrative.

The KD injury and the ability to still pay Kyrie a 5 year max has cracked the door open for Boston to still make a respectable offer... But it's not enough. Yet.

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Although it is possible, it does not sound like Griffin's MO. RP admitted in the SI article that he leaked the names before and now the Pelicans have changed their front office and yet the names are leaked again. Woj doesn't get everything he reports on from the Pelicans just like Shams report yesterday that the Celtics were still involved likely did not come from RP.

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Originally Posted by MistaWhoDat

I think if Ainge was offering Tatum , Brown and Smart this thing would be done don’t you ?? Worries me they trying to keep Tatum


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Like I said, it's Fletch. Many grains of salt involved with everything he says.

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Originally Posted by MistaWhoDat

I think if Ainge was offering Tatum , Brown and Smart this thing would be done don’t you ?? Worries me they trying to keep Tatum


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Feel the same way. If that is the case, I think this could be a one team race.

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Originally Posted by MistaWhoDat

I think if Ainge was offering Tatum , Brown and Smart this thing would be done don’t you ?? Worries me they trying to keep Tatum


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If it ends up being Boston, it'll more likely be 2 out of those 3, plus other nice things.

It’s gonna be Lakers, guys. Ainge is just doing Griff a solid

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

Feel the same way. If that is the case, I think this could be a one team race.

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Don't really agree there.

Griff clearly doesn't love what LA has to offer, or he would have taken it already. They're putting Ingram, Ball, and #4 on the table and he's telling them ''not good enough. Get another team.''

If there really was only one team offeringanything decent, Griff would have taken it, just like if Ainge was offering everything, Griff would have taken it.

He's sitting between the multiple offers he's getting and trying to leverage them all up. There may be favourites right now, but I think it would be silly to just assume there's a team that's basically got it locked in already.

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Originally Posted by MistaWhoDat

I think if Ainge was offering Tatum , Brown and Smart this thing would be done don’t you ?? Worries me they trying to keep Tatum


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Maybe just maybe this forum values the C’s assets more than griff or the coaching staff.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

We kind of need to go for a defensive build. Jrue is a good scorer, but he's a defender at heart. Zion is an offensive dynamo, but his defense is top tier.

Good NBA teams play defense. The only team with a top 5 record this year without being a top 10 defense was Golden State.

Toronto has dominated Golden State in these finals through having a far superior defense. If ''we aren't aiming for a defensive build'', then we aren't aiming to win basketball games.

Edit: as a side note, as a fan, I also want my basketball team to be fun to watch. There's nothing less fun and more frustrating than watching a bunch of idiots run around like headless chickens on D and get bombed on.

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I don't know. I get the feeling that Griffin wants to come out next season as playoff team. I JUST don't understand why we need to flip the 4th to get a star. Make Lakers give up future assets, not us. Lakers have no leverage. They need AD.. THIS YEAR. So, I rather burn lakeshow to the ground with a Knicks deal or Celtics deal unless they give exactly what we want.

One thing to remember is that the threat of AD walking away ASSUMES that LA will have the cap space to sign him in 2020.

If AD goes to Boston or NY, LA has two choices.

1) Burn another year of Lebron on one-year big contracts to fill out the team so that they can still have space in 2020 to sign AD.
2) Try and make signings from the multiple high quality stars in FA this year, spending the money that would be needed for AD next year.

It's not just a case of ''Oh, hey, if AD goes elsewhere, LA just needs to wait and they'll get him anyway.''

It's a case of ''if AD goes elsewhere, LA has to accept and waste a full year of Lebron, AGAIN, after Lebron's camp has already threatened trade demands if they can't secure something this year''.

Essentially, if LA don't get AD now, they might just not get AD at all.