Draft Prospects Discussion

Kawhi Leonard is my favorite player. I don't know how you can't root for someone like him. He's a perfect example of what hard work can do for a player. Not saying Brown is going to be Leonard but he is a very similiar player to what Leonard was just on a different level athletically. If Brown can just improve his 3 pointer like tons of player do then he's a star.

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Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25

Kawhi Leonard is my favorite player. I don't know how you can't root for someone like him. He's a perfect example of what hard work can do for a player. Not saying Brown is going to be Leonard but he is a very similiar player to what Leonard was just on a different level athletically. If Brown can just improve his 3 pointer like tons of player do then he's a star.

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Nah, Brown lack of IQ, feel for the game, touch around the rim, shot selection, defensive IQ, etc. Dude is pretty much a Aminu/Tyreke hybrid.

Its just every year we see a man beast in college with elite athleticism with minor skill who don't translate. The ones that do ratio is so low it's not worth it IMO.

Brown may thrive in the NBA, he may not, but the optimism of a "super college athlete" becoming a "superstar" is sooo cliche and I'm honestly tired of falli g for it.


The rest of the candidates at least all have some strong potential in one major field of skill. Brown is one injury away from being a bust because his main asset rely heavy on athleticism and nothing else.

Touch around the rim? He shot 75% around the rim so try again. Lack of IQ and you know this how? Considering his coaches and older teammates on the team raved about how well he knows the game along with how hard he works so I will take their word for it. He was a good on ball defender as well having poor help defense from his team. Everything you just said you are seeming to forget he is also a freshman. What was Dunn doing as a freshman? Did not have poor shot selection and actually played within his game pretty well. His bad shots were a big result of being in an offense that was 217th in pace running the clock all the way down causing bad shots for a lot of players. He's a lot more then just a super athlete and had a good season as a freshman in a system that does not fit him at all with players that do not compliment him in the slightest bit. He would fit in perfectly here for what we need and the system we run. He is a shot away from being a star here.

Lol everything you are saying describes Dunn as well and he's a junior. What most people like about Dunn is his athleticism. He turns the ball over, takes poor shots while still being a bad shooter, and Brown is better around the rim as well. Lol he's absolutely nothing like Aminu and very little like Reke so that shows you haven't watched much of him at all if any. Saying he is one injury away from being a bust? Lol what?

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Originally Posted by Silverfoxx

Nah, Brown lack of IQ, feel for the game, touch around the rim, shot selection, defensive IQ, etc. Dude is pretty much a Aminu/Tyreke hybrid.

Its just every year we see a man beast in college with elite athleticism with minor skill who don't translate. The ones that do ratio is so low it's not worth it IMO.

Brown may thrive in the NBA, he may not, but the optimism of a "super college athlete" becoming a "superstar" is sooo cliche and I'm honestly tired of falli g for it.


The rest of the candidates at least all have some strong potential in one major field of skill. Brown is one injury away from being a bust because his main asset rely heavy on athleticism and nothing else.

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That's kinda harsh on Aminu huh? He has shot 36% on 3's this year, and gets the third most minutes on a playoff team. t It did take too long to get there, for what we are looking for; but he is only 25.

That being said, I agree with you on Brown in the sense that we REALLY need a guy who comes into the league balling

A freshmanSF who has the versatility of playing SG which is our 2 biggest positions of need. Shows good ability to create for others and in an offense that actually gets out and runs would only be better. Has elite athleticism and strength being as good as anyone attacking the rim. Is a solid defender and rebounder that can only get better with experience. Is a very hard worker who is said to have good BBall IQ knowing the game very well. Has a shot that is not broken but needs some tweaking to develop consistency. He has everything you can't teach and the things he doesn't have are very very teachable skills. I would rather have a player that isn't held back by things that will never change like height/length and athleticism. Needing normal development should not scare anybody from taking a player when anybody we draft will need just as much. His shot isn't as developed as some others because they needed it there whole careers to be great and Brown didn't until recently. If I have the chance of taking a potential super star who needs to fix his shot while having just natural improvement from experience and coaching in other areas then I'm taking that player all day.

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Originally Posted by fullcourtpress

That's kinda harsh on Aminu huh? He has shot 36% on 3's this year, and gets the third most minutes on a playoff team. t It did take too long to get there, for what we are looking for; but he is only 25.

That being said, I agree with you on Brown in the sense that we REALLY need a guy who comes into the league balling

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Aminu isn't near the prospect Brown is. Brown is an elite athlete who gets to the rim like Aminu dreams he could. Has handles that Aminu will never have and a shot that was is much better at this points in their career. If Aminu can become a decent 3 point shooter then that's all the reason more to take Brown. We likely won't get a player who comes in just balling. Anybody we take will need to be developed and Brown has the potential to be the best. I would love to have some other players as well but Brown would be a great pick for our team. If you haven't dug into him much then do it and I'm sure you will come away liking him a lot. You are usually pretty informed on players so I trust your opinion and I trust that it will change in favor of him more. Most people that don't want him heard something or read he wasn't shooting well and blah blah. Lots of reasons for some of his short comings with the system being the biggest. I mean seriously 217th in pace when you have a player like Brown along with Rabb? That's an absolute joke.

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Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25

Aminu isn't near the prospect Brown is. Brown is an elite athlete who gets to the rim like Aminu dreams he could. Has handles that Aminu will never have and a shot that was is much better at this points in their career. If Aminu can become a decent 3 point shooter then that's all the reason more to take Brown. We likely won't get a player who comes in just balling. Anybody we take will need to be developed and Brown has the potential to be the best. I would love to have some other players as well but Brown would be a great pick for our team. If you haven't dug into him much then do it and I'm sure you will come away liking him a lot. You are usually pretty informed on players so I trust your opinion and I trust that it will change in favor of him more. Most people that don't want him heard something or read he wasn't shooting well and blah blah. Lots of reasons for some of his short comings with the system being the biggest. I mean seriously 217th in pace when you have a player like Brown along with Rabb? That's an absolute joke.

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I think everybody around here got that you really like Brown, but let's avoid non-sense. if you compare Brown and Aminu at the same age and same level, there's real similarities. Now do that mean Brown will have the same carreer as Aminu ? No but you can't act like it's the first time there's a lot of hype around one athletic wing that can't shoot in the draft and experience show that this kind of experiment doesn't finish well most of the time. So to take him at 6th just a major gamble on the future, that's it.

I like Dunn because he is a leader, and can take over a game. Also, being a senior you get a good sample size as to what he can do against better competition. That's my one fear with all 1 and dones. Save the trancendent ones like AD, Wall, Melo, etc. it seems like more of them are in over their skis, and don't have any sort of positive impact until year two if your lucky.

Put a gun to my head and say pick Dunn or a 1 and done, give me Dunn. If not for his skill, for his leadership.

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Originally Posted by Blattman

I think everybody around here got that you really like Brown, but let's avoid non-sense. if you compare Brown and Aminu at the same age and same level, there's real similarities. Now do that mean Brown will have the same carreer as Aminu ? No but you can't act like it's the first time there's a lot of hype around one athletic wing that can't shoot in the draft and experience show that this kind of experiment doesn't finish well most of the time. So to take him at 6th just a major gamble on the future, that's it.

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Please tell me Brown and Aminu actually compare at all? If he compares to Aminu that much then he does just about every player. He compares to Leonard, Butler, Wiggins, and Barnes more then he does Aminu. Ok and your point that he's not that first athletic player that couldn't shoot? Experience shows that all draft picks don't finish well most of the time. You know how many athletic players are studs right now in the NBA who couldn't really shoot coming out? Because there is a lot of bust players means what? There is a lot of bust players in every type of skill set. Still doesn't stop Brown from being arguably the best prospect outside of the top 2 players in this draft. What you are saying should be a knock to Simmons as well since so many athletic players who can shoot bust out.

Brown reminds me too much of Shabazz Muhamad and Stanley Johnson. Yes he can jump and has an NBA body, but I have yet to see him get around anyone while not in transition. Kawhi is a pretty unique player, being so good as he is without really being all that quick with the ball.

Yeah i dont see the aminu brown comparison at all. Brown is the superior shooter, athlete, handles, and better at the rim. Aminu is the better rebounder, and possibly defender.

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Originally Posted by Pelifan

Brown reminds me too much of Shabazz Muhamad and Stanley Johnson. Yes he can jump and has an NBA body, but I have yet to see him get around anyone while not in transition. Kawhi is a pretty unique player, being so good as he is without really being all that quick with the ball.

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He is on a completely different level then those guys athletically. He gets around people consistently in one of the slowest paced offenses in the country. He is rarely even in transition because his team doesn't get out on the break. Most of his work comes in the half court. He is great getting around people to the rim considering players already sag off of him while his teammates literally provide absolutely no spacing not even having 1 decent shooter in the lineup. Teams pack the paint with 3 players at almost all times. He has gotten plenty of practice having to make something happen with very little to no help which will not be the case here. The NBA is already spaced out more which suits his game attacking the rim. He would be in a lineup that includes Jrue and AD along with someone who can actually shoot at the 2/3 which is something he hasn't had the luxury of having. Also Gentrys up tempo offense suits his game perfectly compared to the 217th ranked pace he was in.

He is similiar to those players you mentioned shooting and size wise but they don't compare getting to the rim while Brown already has a very nice euro step that resembles DWades along with a few other moves. Also just look at how far Shabazz has come because of working on his game. I just don't see why a player needing some development scares people. It's not like all he offers is athleticism needing polish in every area. Lots of athletes don't have the handles he has or moves getting to the rim which are two very big things that can translate immediately. Being a freshman and having the ability to get to the rim the way he does in many ways is very impressive. He has a very nice looking post game as well having very good foot work and the ability to be great once he develops a shot to possibly add a fadeaway.

Of course he's not Leonard but I think he has the potential to be that type of player for our team. He is a hard worker and a very smart kid which is exactly what I'm looking for in a player that needs development like him. If he didn't have good work ethic while having poor IQ then I wouldn't draft him but that is not the case. With our shooting coaches I feel they can fix his shot and having Erman/Pack to get a hold of him at a young age he can be an all NBA defender.

Below you will find a link to most common insider opinion lately...
Bill Simmons f.e. likes him as a player, notices that scouts probably loves him. But for his future it might be better to return to Cal for a year.
But many of the insiders are biased, cause Brown is a type of player for new smallball era.

http://www.californiagoldenblogs.com...nba-draft-2016


here is something extra
http://www.sfchronicle.com/collegesp...ns-6878413.php

I want him to enter draft
he is not my first choice, but want him to be in top-7. to give us a possibility and choice...
Who knows what is the top-5 on Dell's and Alvin's list?

Pels should take for the 6th pick: Dragan Bender, Jamal Murray or Buddy Hield, in that order. I'm also intrigued with: A. Zizic, J. Poetl, G. Papagiannis and D. Sabonis.

And with a 2nd round pick they should take Patricio Garino (SG/SF), he is a great lockdown defender and a very good 3pt shooter, with high basketball IQ and a ton of intangibles. He is also a prominent member of Argentina's national team.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BXN2uiPvEI

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/...o-Garino-7063/

http://basketball.realgm.com/player/.../Summary/24744

http://collegebasketball.nbcsports.c...-championship/

My early season option for 2nd round pick - Nigel Hayes entered the draft without agent.

Wisconsin junior Nigel Hayes will enter the 2016 NBA Draft, but will not immediately sign with an agent, sources tell @TheVertical.

— Adrian Wojnarowski (@WojVerticalNBA) April 20th 2016

Brown, now it is your turn

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Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25

Touch around the rim? He shot 75% around the rim so try again. Lack of IQ and you know this how? Considering his coaches and older teammates on the team raved about how well he knows the game along with how hard he works so I will take their word for it. He was a good on ball defender as well having poor help defense from his team. Everything you just said you are seeming to forget he is also a freshman. What was Dunn doing as a freshman? Did not have poor shot selection and actually played within his game pretty well. His bad shots were a big result of being in an offense that was 217th in pace running the clock all the way down causing bad shots for a lot of players. He's a lot more then just a super athlete and had a good season as a freshman in a system that does not fit him at all with players that do not compliment him in the slightest bit. He would fit in perfectly here for what we need and the system we run. He is a shot away from being a star here.

Lol everything you are saying describes Dunn as well and he's a junior. What most people like about Dunn is his athleticism. He turns the ball over, takes poor shots while still being a bad shooter, and Brown is better around the rim as well. Lol he's absolutely nothing like Aminu and very little like Reke so that shows you haven't watched much of him at all if any. Saying he is one injury away from being a bust? Lol what?

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Not true about Dunn, his passing and IQ and Defense is what people like about him.

And anytime when someone has so many excuses to make up for their play (Brown) then i tend to not believe in them.

Beverly said Dunn didn't play good defense. How does Brown have bad passing IQ but Dunn has great IQ when his problem is turning over the ball and he's a junior? Only thing you can do is just make an excuse for his TOs like he's athletic and plays fast when that's not how it works. Dunn has some big concerns along with two serious injuries and he's a junior not a freshman. Brown needs development just like Dunn will need while he has even more potential at a huge position of need. The reasons you gave for him aren't even accurate in the first place.

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Originally Posted by pawel

Below you will find a link to most common insider opinion lately...
Bill Simmons f.e. likes him as a player, notices that scouts probably loves him. But for his future it might be better to return to Cal for a year.
But many of the insiders are biased, cause Brown is a type of player for new smallball era.

http://www.californiagoldenblogs.com...nba-draft-2016


here is something extra
http://www.sfchronicle.com/collegesp...ns-6878413.php

I want him to enter draft
he is not my first choice, but want him to be in top-7. to give us a possibility and choice...
Who knows what is the top-5 on Dell's and Alvin's list?

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Nice to see what people think who actually have studied the player instead of repeating what they heard and read. I think it's probably best for him just to get out of that system and in a place where they can actually take advantage of his skill set and put in the work needed to fix his shot.

Everyone wants a Kawhi, Paul George, and Gianni's but the don't want to take the same risk those same teams did when they drafted those guys.

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Originally Posted by 504ByrdGang

Everyone wants a Kawhi, Paul George, and Gianni's but the don't want to take the same risk those same teams did when they drafted those guys.

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Exactly!! All of those guys have serious flaws and took time to develop. The flaws they had were very fixable with hard work just like with Brown. If I have the chance to take a super star at my biggest position of need who needs to be developed while just getting experience and natural improvement I take that player. You have guys like Heild who I like but they have some limitations while still needing major development as well. Only thing some of these guys have better is a shot which we have seen time and time again is usually very fixable and improved on by players who want to. It's not like Browns shot needs to be completely broken down and fixed it just needs some tweaking and develop some muscle memory for consistency. People are un realistic on what it takes to get Leonard, Butler, and George acting like they never had problems.

I don't know who Beverly is, but he doesn't know Kris Dunn if he is going to say something so off the wall as "Dunn doesn't play good defense." The guy won the Big East DPOY, and his defensive skill is one of his better assets.

He does need to cut down on the turnovers though. With a 3.3 avg. he wont be on the court long unless that improves, but also avg. 2.2 stls a game will help balance it out. But look at this list of turnover leaders http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/...er-yearly.html , crazy how many of them are in the pros these days.

In other news, Antonio Blakeney opted NOT to enter the draft. Really happy about this. Normally, I think missing the draft doesn't help, but I want LSU to still field a decent team next year.

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

In other news, Antonio Blakeney opted NOT to enter the draft. Really happy about this. Normally, I think missing the draft doesn't help, but I want LSU to still field a decent team next year.

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Likewise. I feel like the only person pulling for JJ at times

Draft Comparisons: 2016 SGs
http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nb...isons-2016-sgs

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Hield was a standout in this category, as well, putting up the highest three-point percentage of the players listed the past few years, while also taking the highest percentage of his field goal attempts as threes, with 54 percent. Denzel Valentine wasn’t far behind, just over 44 percent from behind the arc, and almost 53 percent of his total shots from long-range, while also acting as Michigan State’s primary playmaker for much of the season.

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There was a bit more disparity in three-point attempts assisted, with players like Hield and Sheldon McClellan showing a good ability to create their own long-range attempts. On the other end, you have players like Murray and Beasley who both had around 90 percent of their threes being assisted.

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Kentucky went through great pains to free Murray for spot-shooting attempts in the second half of the season, after limited success when letting him create his own shots.

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Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25

Aminu isn't near the prospect Brown is. Brown is an elite athlete who gets to the rim like Aminu dreams he could. Has handles that Aminu will never have and a shot that was is much better at this points in their career. If Aminu can become a decent 3 point shooter then that's all the reason more to take Brown. We likely won't get a player who comes in just balling. Anybody we take will need to be developed and Brown has the potential to be the best. I would love to have some other players as well but Brown would be a great pick for our team. If you haven't dug into him much then do it and I'm sure you will come away liking him a lot. You are usually pretty informed on players so I trust your opinion and I trust that it will change in favor of him more. Most people that don't want him heard something or read he wasn't shooting well and blah blah. Lots of reasons for some of his short comings with the system being the biggest. I mean seriously 217th in pace when you have a player like Brown along with Rabb? That's an absolute joke.

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Good points. I like the thought of Brown now.

The thread has also contained points about Dunn recently that has made me covet him.

But when I watch Jamal Murray's highlights, and how quickly he launches his 3-point bombs, I start thinking about Steph Curry.

watch this again if you will.. http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=...B1&FORM=VRDGAR
(42 seconds/ 1:08 seconds)
that's some serious swag.

for the first time in my life I'm not coaching basketball nor really watching much NBA hoops but from what I gather the NBA is becoming a 3-pointer league; is it not?

I see articles about how contested 3's are a good thing????

It almost spooks me to pass on Murray's skills