AD trade scenarios...

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

This is beyond stupid.

You cannot sit here and still say we should have traded AD at deadline when by not trading him we won the lottery. No one can actually believe that.

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Before Irving wanting to go Nets and KD injury... Yeah. Not so much right now.

Still got Leonard to super team with...

The more i think about this, read forums, watch everything i can get my hands on i see this as the best course of action in my head. I was on board with the Knicks trade but i read a lot of uncertainly over there. We know Lakers want AD and there is a path to suit all parties.

AD to Lakers

Lakers give up the #4 2019 pick
Ingram
Ball
Kuzma
Random Pick (2020/2021)

Pelicans trade Ball to Phoenix who is interested in Ball and Lavar is speaking it into existence for the #6 2019 Pick

In all we get the #4 and #6 2019 Picks
Ingram, Kuz, 2020/2021 Picks
...with the #4 and #6 we can draft a solid PG @ #4 and use #6 either to trade down for a couple picks to say Nets in 2019, trade into 2020 for a 1st round, or pick up something we like.

Thats where im at.

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Originally Posted by Pels4Life

The more i think about this, read forums, watch everything i can get my hands on i see this as the best course of action in my head. I was on board with the Knicks trade but i read a lot of uncertainly over there. We know Lakers want AD and there is a path to suit all parties.

AD to Lakers

Lakers give up the #4 2019 pick
Ingram
Ball
Kuzma
Random Pick (2020/2021)

Pelicans trade Ball to Phoenix who is interested in Ball and Lavar is speaking it into existence for the #6 2019 Pick

In all we get the #4 and #6 2019 Picks
Ingram, Kuz, 2020/2021 Picks
...with the #4 and #6 we can draft a solid PG @ #4 and use #6 either to trade down for a couple picks to say Nets in 2019, trade into 2020 for a 1st round, or pick up something we like.

Thats where im at.

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We've heard mixed things about Phoenix and Ball. Rumours going around in the last week indicate that neither Phoenix nor Chicago would be willing to trade their picks in this draft for Ball.

Ingram... well... the risks and doubts surrounding him probably make up 25 of the 79 pages of this thread. Suffice it to say, I'm not interested.

#4 is still cool, I still like Culver, but I'm not sure about any of the PGs in this draft after Morant. Which is fine, because there will be better PGs in next years draft, which makes the 2020 pick from LA important. Will it be again good, if they have Lebron, AD, and possibly a third tier star like Kemba, Vucevic, or Butler? Nah. It would be pick #23 or something, which isn't selling me on the deal.

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Originally Posted by Pels4Life

The more i think about this, read forums, watch everything i can get my hands on i see this as the best course of action in my head. I was on board with the Knicks trade but i read a lot of uncertainly over there. We know Lakers want AD and there is a path to suit all parties.

AD to Lakers

Lakers give up the #4 2019 pick
Ingram
Ball
Kuzma
Random Pick (2020/2021)

Pelicans trade Ball to Phoenix who is interested in Ball and Lavar is speaking it into existence for the #6 2019 Pick

In all we get the #4 and #6 2019 Picks
Ingram, Kuz, 2020/2021 Picks
...with the #4 and #6 we can draft a solid PG @ #4 and use #6 either to trade down for a couple picks to say Nets in 2019, trade into 2020 for a 1st round, or pick up something we like.

Thats where im at.

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Why do we need a bunch of draft picks for this year? It's a weak draft. If can hoard a bunch of 2020 and 2021 picks. Let do it.

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Originally Posted by Taker597

Why do we need a bunch of draft picks for this year? It's a weak draft. If can hoard a bunch of 2020 and 2021 picks. Let do it.

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That works just as well. I do think though you do have to use the #4 atleast as you dont get much chances in top 4 picks. I think trading down 5 and below is a prudent approach.

Did MM start his elite board here yet?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

This is beyond stupid.

You cannot sit here and still say we should have traded AD at deadline when by not trading him we won the lottery. No one can actually believe that.

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You're incorrectly assigning causality. It's a fact that we didn't trade AD. It's also a fact that we won the lottery. There is no causality between the two because there is no way to determine how many games we win if he's traded before the deadline.

You guys are literally using the rules and logic from TV shows and comic books about time travel, as if that's a solid reason why we were right not to trade AD. I've thought this was a running joke, but some of yall really ascribe to this theory that if you change one thing, you definitely change everything.

Let's test this stupid theory out...
7.5 seconds left at the end the 4th game of the season against the Nets, Nets are leading and have the ball. D'Lo throws the ball away, followed by a Jrue jumper, and an Ed Davis technical foul. One of the dumbest endings to a basketball game I saw all year.

IF D'Angelo doesn't throw the ball away, Pelicans don't get Zion.

Here's another one.... the draft lottery is random. What if, I don't know, a ping pong ball bounces a different way. Then we don't get Zion. And instead we drop to 8th in the draft. Does that mean we should have traded AD, because if we'd tanked we would have had better odds?

Using the fact that we got Zion to justify not trading AD, is actually really stupid. If I drive drunk, and manage not to kill anyone, the result doesn't mean the decision was correct.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

We've heard mixed things about Phoenix and Ball. Rumours going around in the last week indicate that neither Phoenix nor Chicago would be willing to trade their picks in this draft for Ball.

Ingram... well... the risks and doubts surrounding him probably make up 25 of the 79 pages of this thread. Suffice it to say, I'm not interested.

#4 is still cool, I still like Culver, but I'm not sure about any of the PGs in this draft after Morant. Which is fine, because there will be better PGs in next years draft, which makes the 2020 pick from LA important. Will it be again good, if they have Lebron, AD, and possibly a third tier star like Kemba, Vucevic, or Butler? Nah. It would be pick #23 or something, which isn't selling me on the deal.

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I suggested it once before, but I'd actually rather a future pick and a player from Phoenix/Chicago, and not this years pick. I think that's a really workable deal.
Would Phoenix trade one of there wings and a top 4 protected pick next year for Lonzo? The pick could be top 4 next year, protected at #1 overall only the following year. I think they would do that.

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

I suggested it once before, but I'd actually rather a future pick and a player from Phoenix/Chicago, and not this years pick. I think that's a really workable deal.
Would Phoenix trade one of there wings and a top 4 protected pick next year for Lonzo? The pick could be top 4 next year, protected at #1 overall only the following year. I think they would do that.

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The only wing Phoenix has that I'd want from them is TJ Warren, and I don't think they'd give him up AND a pick unless the pick had very heavy protections on it, since even with Ball they'd still very probably suck. Their other wings are what, Josh Jackson and Mikal Bridges? I guess they have Kelly Oubre now too, and at one point I was a big fan of Oubre, but with Zion incoming I'd much rather have Warren.

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

You're incorrectly assigning causality. It's a fact that we didn't trade AD. It's also a fact that we won the lottery. There is no causality between the two because there is no way to determine how many games we win if he's traded before the deadline.

You guys are literally using the rules and logic from TV shows and comic books about time travel, as if that's a solid reason why we were right not to trade AD. I've thought this was a running joke, but some of yall really ascribe to this theory that if you change one thing, you definitely change everything.

Let's test this stupid theory out...
7.5 seconds left at the end the 4th game of the season against the Nets, Nets are leading and have the ball. D'Lo throws the ball away, followed by a Jrue jumper, and an Ed Davis technical foul. One of the dumbest endings to a basketball game I saw all year.

IF D'Angelo doesn't throw the ball away, Pelicans don't get Zion.

Here's another one.... the draft lottery is random. What if, I don't know, a ping pong ball bounces a different way. Then we don't get Zion. And instead we drop to 8th in the draft. Does that mean we should have traded AD, because if we'd tanked we would have had better odds?

Using the fact that we got Zion to justify not trading AD, is actually really stupid. If I drive drunk, and manage not to kill anyone, the result doesn't mean the decision was correct.

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The number combination of the ping pong balls would not have changed because we traded AD. So, that combination is a given. Trading AD though could have changed our record or the record of another lottery team. That is causation. If we do not get the exact same combination of numbers, we do not get Zion.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

We've heard mixed things about Phoenix and Ball. Rumours going around in the last week indicate that neither Phoenix nor Chicago would be willing to trade their picks in this draft for Ball.

Ingram... well... the risks and doubts surrounding him probably make up 25 of the 79 pages of this thread. Suffice it to say, I'm not interested.

#4 is still cool, I still like Culver, but I'm not sure about any of the PGs in this draft after Morant. Which is fine, because there will be better PGs in next years draft, which makes the 2020 pick from LA important. Will it be again good, if they have Lebron, AD, and possibly a third tier star like Kemba, Vucevic, or Butler? Nah. It would be pick #23 or something, which isn't selling me on the deal.

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You ever get tired to responding to everyone that post something about a Lakers trade lol we get it they’re all garbage and your not interested . [emoji2957]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

The number combination of the ping pong balls would not have changed because we traded AD. So, that combination is a given. Trading AD though could have changed our record or the record of another lottery team. That is causation. If we do not get the exact same combination of numbers, we do not get Zion.

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“Could have” never equals causation.

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Originally Posted by MistaWhoDat

You ever get tired to responding to everyone that post something about a Lakers trade lol we get it they’re all garbage and your not interested . [emoji2957]

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If you ever get tired of people talking about the topic that's at hand, then a message-board might not be the best place to hang out, imo

I keep talking about the Lakers pieces because I'm interested in the team, the trade, and what we get back from it. Just so happens to be the case that the Lakers are very much a part of that. So people keep bringing it up, and I'll keep replying. If you get sick of reading my takes, mute me.

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

“Could have” never equals causation.

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Unless you are confident that the trade would not have caused any changes in any of the records of the lottery teams, then it would have led to us not getting Zion. The lottery combination does not change because of a trade. Records could.

Suns offer Deandre Ayton , first rounder and T.J. Warren for AD, any takers?

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

Suns offer Deandre Ayton , first rounder and T.J. Warren for AD, any takers?

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I've considered that before. I think it would be better than the LA deal, especially if they packaged in multiple firsts, but still below Boston and probably below NY too. I'm not as big on DeAndre Ayton as a lot of people are.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I've considered that before. I think it would be better than the LA deal, especially if they packaged in multiple firsts, but still below Boston and probably below NY too. I'm not as big on DeAndre Ayton as a lot of people are.

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I would do a Devin Booker and the #6 pick 2019...maybe try to reach and get something in 2020.

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Originally Posted by Pels4Life

I would do a Devin Booker and the #6 pick 2019...maybe try to reach and get something in 2020.

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No way they move Booker imo. If they decide to enter the AD sweepstakes, it's to pair him with Booker, not to replace him. They're already extremely thin at the guard positions.

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Originally Posted by IamQuailman

Did MM start his elite board here yet?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

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What is up? It is coming soon!

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

No way they move Booker imo. If they decide to enter the AD sweepstakes, it's to pair him with Booker, not to replace him. They're already extremely thin at the guard positions.

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i agree...but a man can dream.

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

Suns offer Deandre Ayton , first rounder and T.J. Warren for AD, any takers?

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In a heartbeat.

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Originally Posted by IamQuailman

Did MM start his elite board here yet?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

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He DED

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

You're incorrectly assigning causality. It's a fact that we didn't trade AD. It's also a fact that we won the lottery. There is no causality between the two because there is no way to determine how many games we win if he's traded before the deadline.

You guys are literally using the rules and logic from TV shows and comic books about time travel, as if that's a solid reason why we were right not to trade AD. I've thought this was a running joke, but some of yall really ascribe to this theory that if you change one thing, you definitely change everything.

Let's test this stupid theory out...
7.5 seconds left at the end the 4th game of the season against the Nets, Nets are leading and have the ball. D'Lo throws the ball away, followed by a Jrue jumper, and an Ed Davis technical foul. One of the dumbest endings to a basketball game I saw all year.

IF D'Angelo doesn't throw the ball away, Pelicans don't get Zion.

Here's another one.... the draft lottery is random. What if, I don't know, a ping pong ball bounces a different way. Then we don't get Zion. And instead we drop to 8th in the draft. Does that mean we should have traded AD, because if we'd tanked we would have had better odds?

Using the fact that we got Zion to justify not trading AD, is actually really stupid. If I drive drunk, and manage not to kill anyone, the result doesn't mean the decision was correct.

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Look at it this way my buddy. We trade AD to the Knicks and he makes them better. Therefore, their draft pick in all likelihood becomes poopier. Also, our pick in all likelihood also becomes poopier without a disengaged Anthony Davis and young talent with something to prove. We lucked out for Zion, but it made sense not to trade him before the deadline. That and we had to allow Boston into the mix to drive the price up. You want as many suitors as possible and you want to know WHO has the desirable draft picks. For all we know the Lakers ended up with 12 and the Knicks get royally screwed as well. The Lakers package improved when they landed 4.

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

You're incorrectly assigning causality. It's a fact that we didn't trade AD. It's also a fact that we won the lottery. There is no causality between the two because there is no way to determine how many games we win if he's traded before the deadline.

You guys are literally using the rules and logic from TV shows and comic books about time travel, as if that's a solid reason why we were right not to trade AD. I've thought this was a running joke, but some of yall really ascribe to this theory that if you change one thing, you definitely change everything.

Let's test this stupid theory out...
7.5 seconds left at the end the 4th game of the season against the Nets, Nets are leading and have the ball. D'Lo throws the ball away, followed by a Jrue jumper, and an Ed Davis technical foul. One of the dumbest endings to a basketball game I saw all year.

IF D'Angelo doesn't throw the ball away, Pelicans don't get Zion.

Here's another one.... the draft lottery is random. What if, I don't know, a ping pong ball bounces a different way. Then we don't get Zion. And instead we drop to 8th in the draft. Does that mean we should have traded AD, because if we'd tanked we would have had better odds?

Using the fact that we got Zion to justify not trading AD, is actually really stupid. If I drive drunk, and manage not to kill anyone, the result doesn't mean the decision was correct.

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Shouldn't you be posting this after we trade AD for peanuts instead of the super awesome y'all Laker's package before the trade deadline (with non-lottery Lakers 2019 pick I might add)? It's not so much of a gotcha if the package is better now, but we still don't know. And we know it's all better because we got Zion. I don't know why it's so important for you to be "right" when you've already proven to be "wrong". It didn't work out. We would clearly be worse off if they listened to you, dumb luck or not. Move on, you lost.

Finally **heard** the full Griff quote from Feb/March on the Sedano Show re: Brandon Ingram. I’d read the quote, but never actually listened to it.

Dude...

Griff LOVES Brandon Ingram. I mean he LOOOOVES him.

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Originally Posted by donato

Shouldn't you be posting this after we trade AD for peanuts instead of the super awesome y'all Laker's package before the trade deadline (with non-lottery Lakers 2019 pick I might add)? It's not so much of a gotcha if the package is better now, but we still don't know. And we know it's all better because we got Zion. I don't know why it's so important for you to be "right" when you've already proven to be "wrong". It didn't work out. We would clearly be worse off if they listened to you, dumb luck or not. Move on, you lost.

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Ok. I mean, I don’t feel like I lost. But ok.

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

Finally **heard** the full Griff quote from Feb/March on the Sedano Show re: Brandon Ingram. I’d read the quote, but never actually listened to it.

Dude...

Griff LOVES Brandon Ingram. I mean he LOOOOVES him.

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Was that before or after the blood clot? I don't hate him. I see the upside possibility. But if he has a bad year it's going to be a disaster to pay him or just cut our losses.

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

Finally **heard** the full Griff quote from Feb/March on the Sedano Show re: Brandon Ingram. I’d read the quote, but never actually listened to it.

Dude...

Griff LOVES Brandon Ingram. I mean he LOOOOVES him.

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Firstly, that was prior to the blood clot.

Secondly, he clearly doesn't love him THAT much, or the deal would be done and he wouldn't be asking for LA to rope a third team in to add value to the move.

What I'd really love is for someone to find an instance of Griffin ever denigrating other players on a podcast or a TV show. Has he ever been asked about a player in an interview and NOT responded with positivity and praise?

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

Ok. I mean, I don’t feel like I lost. But ok.

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Ok. I don't see how you're making much sense, but that's just me. I think it was the right decision then, and in hindsight also the right decision looking back regardless of the lottery outcome, and now especially because of it. Oh well.

If the trade is weak, then you will have at least some argument. Maybe.

I still feel like there are options out there that have been relatively undercovered.

Woj was saying earlier on TV that he doubts Atlanta keeps all of their first rounders this year: they have three now, after the Brooklyn trade. Do Atlanta see Trae making that leap next year, and possibly accept AD in exchange for a deal based John Collins, #10, #17 from Brooklyn, and their 2020 FRP? They'd be keeping their #8, so they could add someone like DeAndre Hunter to add more shooting and defense, and then collect up vets to fill out the roster.

Almost definitely not, but that would be interesting.

Like people mentioned, Phoenix could always come out and offer Ayton, TJ Warren, #6, and their 2020 FRP if they were certain that AD + Booker would be a playoff combo. Doubtful, but they could.

Kinda sucks that we got corralled into LA/Boston/NY so early, cause if there had been a longer period of complete uncertainty, we could have had some fun conversations about teams that we now know are pretty unlikely to make an appearance.

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Originally Posted by donato

If the trade is weak, then you will have at least some argument. Maybe.

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We’re debating results now. We got Zion and AD didn’t get hurt. We cashed both of those results and I wouldn’t have bet on either. Too much risk. We also have Griff now and the awesome front office he’s building, so it just genuinely should feel to most like we made the right decision because things have all worked out this far. Doesn’t mean the decision was right. There was literally a ~94% chance it wouldn’t have worked out with us getting Zion. And most people wanted to wait expressly so that Boston could up the ante, and it was always clear to me that Kyrie was going to flake and Ainge wasn’t going to come through.

I think we’ll still get a good deal. Honestly no complaints at all from me, because it worked. It’s like that stupid step back Jrue shot too much this year. You go “No! No! No (then he makes it) ...yes!!”

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Firstly, that was prior to the blood clot.

Secondly, he clearly doesn't love him THAT much, or the deal would be done and he wouldn't be asking for LA to rope a third team in to add value to the move.

What I'd really love is for someone to find an instance of Griffin ever denigrating other players on a podcast or a TV show. Has he ever been asked about a player in an interview and NOT responded with positivity and praise?

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There’s no way you’ve actually listened to the quote. I’m convinced.

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

There’s no way you’ve actually listened to the quote. I’m convinced.

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Feel free to stick your fingers in your ears then.

Must be pretty easy, I guess. Hear someone disagree with you? Claim they're just lying.


On an unrelated note, I would like to highlight how absurd it is for you to claim that someone else can only think Y because they haven't listened to the quote, when you yourself admitted that you hadn't listened to the quote until tonight despite referencing it in your arguments frequently for months.

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

We’re debating results now. We got Zion and AD didn’t get hurt. We cashed both of those results and I wouldn’t have bet on either. Too much risk. We also have Griff now and the awesome front office he’s building, so it just genuinely should feel to most like we made the right decision because things have all worked out this far. Doesn’t mean the decision was right. There was literally a ~94% chance it wouldn’t have worked out with us getting Zion. And most people wanted to wait expressly so that Boston could up the ante, and it was always clear to me that Kyrie was going to flake and Ainge wasn’t going to come through.

I think we’ll still get a good deal. Honestly no complaints at all from me, because it worked. It’s like that stupid step back Jrue shot too much this year. You go “No! No! No (then he makes it) ...yes!!”

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I get that. But it DID work out. At some point results matter. And you're arguing a stance that is still pending the "wait until post trade deadline result" which is even more illogical. How can you possibly justify your position when not knowing what trade actually takes place???? MANY here were telling you we would be better at this point in time to make a trade. If we are right, did we just get lucky too? At what point are you the one that was wrong?

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I still feel like there are options out there that have been relatively undercovered.

Woj was saying earlier on TV that he doubts Atlanta keeps all of their first rounders this year: they have three now, after the Brooklyn trade. Do Atlanta see Trae making that leap next year, and possibly accept AD in exchange for a deal based John Collins, #10, #17 from Brooklyn, and their 2020 FRP? They'd be keeping their #8, so they could add someone like DeAndre Hunter to add more shooting and defense, and then collect up vets to fill out the roster.

Almost definitely not, but that would be interesting.

Like people mentioned, Phoenix could always come out and offer Ayton, TJ Warren, #6, and their 2020 FRP if they were certain that AD + Booker would be a playoff combo. Doubtful, but they could.

Kinda sucks that we got corralled into LA/Boston/NY so early, cause if there had been a longer period of complete uncertainty, we could have had some fun conversations about teams that we now know are pretty unlikely to make an appearance.

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Ive tried talking about all these random other deals and people just crapped on them because they weren’t better than a mythical Celtics deal that everyone fell in love with.

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

Ive tried talking about all these random other deals and people just crapped on them because they weren’t better than a mythical Celtics deal that everyone fell in love with.

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Then why don't we talk about them? I've responded to damn near every proposal in this thread, and 90% of them are just Yet Another Version of The Lakers Trade.

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

Finally **heard** the full Griff quote from Feb/March on the Sedano Show re: Brandon Ingram. I’d read the quote, but never actually listened to it.

Dude...

Griff LOVES Brandon Ingram. I mean he LOOOOVES him.

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Yeah, starts to make me think that Ingram could be had. I'd much rather Tatum, but I've been coming to terms that Ingram could be a legitimate possibility.

We don't even really KNOW everything the Lakers offered pre trade deadline. We know that Ingram, Ball, Kuzma, and Zubac were discussed but I highly doubt it was all at the same time like we tend to throw around. So it really wouldn't be fair to compare whatever happens to that dream deal.

I also feel like (no research done, just off of memory] most of the proposed deals we all crapped on was more because we didn't think the other teams would go for it (they involved a third team getting fleeced) rather than we thought the Celtics deal was better. In all fairness, though, NBA deals rarely seem fair. It always seems like someone came out a clear winner. So I guess it could happen in those crazy ways.

The Lakers deal is 3x better now as long as 4th pick is in deal. That pick is only reason I’d consider Lakers at this point

I don't know what is so hard about this for people. The Lakers deal (as reported) isn't as good as any of the other potential deals. No matter how much Griffin liked the player Ingram was prior to the blood clots, the potential for a recurrence should be enough of a concern that he shouldn't be the best player piece in an AD trade. If Ingram gets another clot, it's game over. I hope he lives a full life, clot-free and is able to continue a good NBA career, but the risk is too great to consider him in the trade. Only Lakers mouthpiece Shams has contended it won't be a concern going forward and there is a real possibility that once you get one DVT, there will be another.

Even if the Lakers are able to cobble together another deal using pieces from a third team, it is unlikely that the deal would have more attractive pieces than those another team can offer. The #4 pick isn't as good as the third, the other first rounders aren't likely to be as good as the ones the Knicks or Clippers could offer and even the Celtics could offer the Memphis pick to go with better players.

I truly don't understand why all of this love exists for a potential Lakers deal. The fourth pick is good, but I would want none of their players. If they can package Ingram, Ball, Kuzma, Hart or anyone else for other players/picks, then fine. We can examine what that looks like then. But until they do, the Lakers should just be on the fringes and not really a consideration.

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

You're incorrectly assigning causality. It's a fact that we didn't trade AD. It's also a fact that we won the lottery. There is no causality between the two because there is no way to determine how many games we win if he's traded before the deadline.

You guys are literally using the rules and logic from TV shows and comic books about time travel, as if that's a solid reason why we were right not to trade AD. I've thought this was a running joke, but some of yall really ascribe to this theory that if you change one thing, you definitely change everything.

Let's test this stupid theory out...
7.5 seconds left at the end the 4th game of the season against the Nets, Nets are leading and have the ball. D'Lo throws the ball away, followed by a Jrue jumper, and an Ed Davis technical foul. One of the dumbest endings to a basketball game I saw all year.

IF D'Angelo doesn't throw the ball away, Pelicans don't get Zion.

Here's another one.... the draft lottery is random. What if, I don't know, a ping pong ball bounces a different way. Then we don't get Zion. And instead we drop to 8th in the draft. Does that mean we should have traded AD, because if we'd tanked we would have had better odds?

Using the fact that we got Zion to justify not trading AD, is actually really stupid. If I drive drunk, and manage not to kill anyone, the result doesn't mean the decision was correct.

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This is so asinine. There is 100% a causation that all the moves we made is exactly what lead to us getting Zion. If not trading AD as part of some two or three team dead had zero impact on the draft lottery, exactly what did impact it? Multiple lottery teams records would be different. If you are going to sit here and argue "because we don't know we can't believe it" no that's false and I do not accept your premise as having any value.

Your premises are incorrect anyway because we have no idea if we'd even be in that situation with the Nets after making a trade. That's the entire point. If we have a much different team then games we won or lost would be different.

What if we trade AD to the Lakers and instead of resting LBJ to end the season they push and make it as an 8th seed? Now instead of the 4th pick overall we would be getting a non lottery pick.

You simply cannot sit here and try and play dumb to defend your stance of wanting to trade before the deadline. Everyone acknowledged that there were risks involved with it, that's not in question. But the argument was the rewards outweighed the risk and knowing now that we won the lottery and that the Lakers ended up with the 4th pick hindsight should be clear that it was without a doubt the right move.

I was fully on board with not taking the deadline deal because we needed the whole league to be in on negotiations and having the knowledge of who gets what lottery selection.

More suitors. Known lotto picks. That was my reasoning. It wasn’t even a gamble or risk.

The fact that knowing we already got Zion is icing. But we couldn’t be better positioned. Waiting was the right move with and without hindsight. Why is this even a debate anymore?

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

If you ever get tired of people talking about the topic that's at hand, then a message-board might not be the best place to hang out, imo

I keep talking about the Lakers pieces because I'm interested in the team, the trade, and what we get back from it. Just so happens to be the case that the Lakers are very much a part of that. So people keep bringing it up, and I'll keep replying. If you get sick of reading my takes, mute me.

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We know you think they’re garbage and your entitled to your opinion but anyone with some degree of knowledge about the game does not share that assessment. David Griffin has stated that he likes Ingram , Alvin Gentry has stated he likes Lonzo Ball , Pelicanidae thinks they’re garbage that’s all I need to know . Go ahead and stay on your soap box when Ingrams in the all star game in a couple years I’ll come back and holla at you .


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Originally Posted by Eman5805

I was fully on board with not taking the deadline deal because we needed the whole league to be in on negotiations and having the knowledge of who gets what lottery selection.

More suitors. Known lotto picks. That was my reasoning. It wasn’t even a gamble or risk.

The fact that knowing we already got Zion is icing. But we couldn’t be better positioned. Waiting was the right move with and without hindsight. Why is this even a debate anymore?

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Actually we have logically less legitimate suitors. Davis has come out a reduced his list to two teams. And now teams have lost about a half of season to try to convince him to stay with them.

The teams that had a chance at Zion that would actually considered trading him for Davis was the Knicks, Celtics and Lakers anyways. Teams like Grizzlies, Hawks, or Suns etc. would have just kept Williamson. So knowing the draft order didn't help us. Getting lucky and winning the lotto or having one of the 3 LAL/NYK/BOS was logically our only chance at getting Zion. Plus this doesn't factor in the idea that any of those teams just decided to keep Zion.

Waiting worked out best only because we won the lottery. I did not want to chance it on 6%.

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

So you think that we would win exactly the same number of games?

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Seriously. We don't know what happens in the room if we trade Davis. We may end up with the same wins we may win with the Knicks pick. The point is people love to argue with the ability of hindsight. Trading not only Davis but Holiday for picks in this draft before the deadline would have likely increased our Zion chances to over 30% as opposed to sitting at 6%. When you have a guy that's considered this transcendent you want to increase your chances as much as possible.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Fine, let me rephrase it with all caveats in place.

''The way things went, we got extremely lucky, and ended up with Zion. Any other combination of the ping-pong balls falling in another way would have NOT got us Zion. The odds of us getting Zion in the lottery were extremely small. If we had traded AD in February, there is pretty much no question that us and the other team would have had different records. NY would have still sucked but they wouldn't have been 17 wins. We would have still sucked, but we wouldn't have had the same record we ended up with. Given the extreme unlikelihood of us getting the pick we have under even the circumstances we got it, it seems silly to wish we had done something differently which would have altered our chances, even by only one or two spots, and prevented us from acquiring the single best NBA prospect out of college in over a decade.''

How's that? Pedantic enough?

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There's a difference between saying I would change something now that I know the outcome vs what gave us the best chance to have that outcome play out without the power of hindsight. Of course the min it was realized we won I wouldn't go back and change anything. However people are saying waiting was the best way to go about it based on that 6% chance and I disagree.

I for one am looking forward to this trade being done so we can move on to our new future. Lets gooooo!

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Originally Posted by Zombiewoof

I don't know what is so hard about this for people. The Lakers deal (as reported) isn't as good as any of the other potential deals. No matter how much Griffin liked the player Ingram was prior to the blood clots, the potential for a recurrence should be enough of a concern that he shouldn't be the best player piece in an AD trade. If Ingram gets another clot, it's game over. I hope he lives a full life, clot-free and is able to continue a good NBA career, but the risk is too great to consider him in the trade. Only Lakers mouthpiece Shams has contended it won't be a concern going forward and there is a real possibility that once you get one DVT, there will be another.

Even if the Lakers are able to cobble together another deal using pieces from a third team, it is unlikely that the deal would have more attractive pieces than those another team can offer. The #4 pick isn't as good as the third, the other first rounders aren't likely to be as good as the ones the Knicks or Clippers could offer and even the Celtics could offer the Memphis pick to go with better players.

I truly don't understand why all of this love exists for a potential Lakers deal. The fourth pick is good, but I would want none of their players. If they can package Ingram, Ball, Kuzma, Hart or anyone else for other players/picks, then fine. We can examine what that looks like then. But until they do, the Lakers should just be on the fringes and not really a consideration.

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I agree that Ingram clot situation should rule the Lakers out instantly. Can anybody imagine the (justifiable) outrage if in a year or two Ingram has to retire or at the very least miss several seasons due to another clot? People(me included) would be calling for Griffin's head.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

Actually we have logically less legitimate suitors. Davis has come out a reduced his list to two teams. And now teams has lost about a half of season to try to convince him.

The teams that had a chance at Zion that would actually considered trading him for Davis was the Knicks, Celtics and Lakers anyways. Teams like Grizzlies, Hawks, or Suns etc. would have just kept Williamson. So knowing the draft order didn't help us. Getting lucky and winning the lotto or having one of the 3 LAL/NYK/BOS was logically our only chance at getting Zion. Plus this doesn't factor in the idea that any of those teams just decided to keep Zion.

Waiting worked out best only because we won the lottery. I did not want to chance it on 6%.

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You sit here and say LAL, NYK, and Celtics (along with ourselves) we're logically our only chances at getting Zion. Great, what teams were in the top 4 of the draft? LAL, NYK, and US.

You can't sit here and say there was only a 6% chance of getting Zion when one of our main reasons for not moving AD was to not only improve our draft odds but also improve the odds of those teams willing to trade with us. Reality is we ended up in a situation where 3 of the 4 teams with a chance to get Zion were either us or teams that we are in discussions with about AD.

You also can't say we have less suitors now. At worst we have the same number of suitors. AD had the same list as he did before the trade deadline. It's been LA or NY this entire time. Nothing has changed on that front and rushing to trade him at the deadline to... LA or NY would have done nothing but make their picks we get worse. We are now in a situation where both of those teams have top 4 picks in the draft along with us.

It's just absolutely crazy people are STILL defending their position that we should have traded AD at the deadline when we know the entirr outcome of what actually happened.