February 24th - New Orleans Pelicans VS Detroit Pistons - 13-17

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Yep. We saw that when Zion came into the league the first thing everyone did, even as early as pre-season against the Bulls in his rookie year, was try the Giannis defense of just loading up the paint and making him face 3 or 4 guys every time he drove, and it didn't work then and it's not working now.

The only teams that have been able to really give Zion any real trouble were last years Bucks - who were a historically great interior defense built around multiple guys who are like 7 feet tall and lengthy - and that first matchup against LA his rookie year.

That's basically it. He was annihilating Gobert in like, his second or third rookie pre-season game lmfao

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Yea that's about the only team I've seen give him trouble. Within two years that J will be consistent though. Or at least improved enough to where you won't be able to sag off him and clog the paint.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

They had 13 3PAs in the first quarter: finished with 37. That means they took 24 the rest of the game.

Definitely slowed the pace, but they were missing on them too, not just taking fewer: 7 makes in the first quarter (7/13), only 6/24 for the rest of the game.

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Also, defense tighten up and besides screens... and some overhelp. They weren't giving up spots on the rim.


I only caught the 2nd half though.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Pels are 7-0 this year when Zion has at least 5 assists.

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Point Zion is the future,,,,,

BI with a great game too. Fit into his perfect role as a secondary playmaker and attacked tilted defenses all game. Only really played iso ball when he was the only scorer on the floor. Him playing this way next to Zion is how they mesh and this team takes another step toward being a contender.

That 15 second left three by Jackson ruined sports books. :D

Shout out to Ingram.. Another Pippen like performance on offense. Great stat line across the board.

Zion and Ingram could be the best young duo in the league for the better part of a decade if things pan out. Ingram is no where near a finished product at 23. We have to remember he's going to continue to get better. Last year he didn't have a pull up 3.. this year he does.

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Originally Posted by Nola3

BI with a great game too. Fit into his perfect role as a secondary playmaker and attacked tilted defenses all game. Only really played iso ball when he was the only scorer on the floor. Him playing this way next to Zion is how they mesh and this team takes another step toward being a contender.

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Nah he iso'd when Zion was on the floor as well. Which as I said before is not always a bad thing. Especially when it's used to penetrate and get to the line. People really just seeing what they want to see. More importantly, did it all on high efficiency again. 27/7/8 on 50/50/86 shooting.

Meanwhile, that guy in Boston just turned in a 4 - 20 night including 1 - 8 from three. Thats 13/1/1 on 20/13/100 shooting. Yes they lost again. Ouch!

As they say, grass ain't always greener.

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Originally Posted by Nola3

BI with a great game too. Fit into his perfect role as a secondary playmaker and attacked tilted defenses all game. Only really played iso ball when he was the only scorer on the floor. Him playing this way next to Zion is how they mesh and this team takes another step toward being a contender.

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Yeah, I think our one and two are beginning to find that chemistry and are learning to play off each other's strengths. Would like to see more actions run through these two guys specifically now (haven't seen any Zion-Ingram inverse PNR yet, or even much Ingram-Zion PNR tbh) but regardless I like the layout of a Zion centric offense that BI can play off of as the secondary guy (and vice versa at times). Don't know if we still need a lead guard type (I still sorta think we do) but clearly most of the pieces are in place I think.

One thing this team needs to do on defense is just stop all the unnecessary helping. They just do it on auto pilot. And of course take forever to recover because they've left the orbit of the person they need to cover most.

I think it might be a case where the coaching staff drilled this into them early, but now don't want to back track and just say it's a bad strategy.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Zion finishes with 32/6/5 on 13/18 shooting (72.2%).

0 turnovers, 0 fouls.

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....and nobody else matters, Good Night , Fans. Drive Safely!!!

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Originally Posted by luckyman

Nah he iso'd when Zion was on the floor as well. Which as I said before is not always a bad thing. Especially when it's used to penetrate and get to the line. People really just seeing what they want to see. More importantly, did it all on high efficiency again. 27/7/8 on 50/50/86 shooting.

Meanwhile, that guy in Boston just turned in a 4 - 20 night including 1 - 8 from three. Thats 13/1/1 on 20/13/100 shooting. Yes they lost again. Ouch!

As they say, grass ain't always greener.

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It's amazing to me how the guys that complain about this forum sucking contribute the most to its suckiness

give credit to adams...i dont think we win this game without him on the glass offense and defensively...

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Originally Posted by 6warddude

give credit to adams...i dont think we will this game without him on the glass offense and defensively...

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He was huge, as always

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Originally Posted by luckyman

One thing this team needs to do on defense is just stop all the unnecessary helping. They just do it on auto pilot. And of course take forever to recover because they've left the orbit of the person they need to cover most.

I think it might be a case where the coaching staff drilled this into them early, but now don't want to back track and just say it's a bad strategy.

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Agreed, I don't like it at all.. Guys are too far off of their man off ball. They even leave 3 point shooters. It's definitely a coaching philosophy.

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Originally Posted by Funcrusher

He was huge, as always

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He's been great for us all year, really.

I know people sometimes complain because if they could design their perfect Custom Centre to fit with Zion, he would look a bit different to Adams, but at a certain point you have to realise that you can't let perfect be the enemy of good. Adams is really good.

For all the Steven Adams supporters, I think you just have to stop feeding the silliness.

If you ignore it, maybe it goes away.

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Originally Posted by Funcrusher

Yeah, I think our one and two are beginning to find that chemistry and are learning to play off each other's strengths. Would like to see more actions run through these two guys specifically now (haven't seen any Zion-Ingram inverse PNR yet, or even much Ingram-Zion PNR tbh) but regardless I like the layout of a Zion centric offense that BI can play off of as the secondary guy (and vice versa at times). Don't know if we still need a lead guard type (I still sorta think we do) but clearly most of the pieces are in place I think.

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First off, I very much agree that we need a lead guard to make the leap into being a legit contender. But at this point I'm fine with Zion and Ingram stretching their playmaking legs.

And I love the idea of Ingram-Zion P&R's a few times a game even though I think they might be bet utilized with one of them off ball in that action. Skeptical of that inverse P&R because Ingram's play style and frame don't really make for an ideal screener. But I'm very willing to try it and be proven wrong because why the hell not.

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Originally Posted by Nola3

First off, I very much agree that we need a lead guard to make the leap into being a legit contender. But at this point I'm fine with Zion and Ingram stretching their playmaking legs.

And I love the idea of Ingram-Zion P&R's a few times a game even though I think they might be bet utilized with one of them off ball in that action. Skeptical of that inverse P&R because Ingram's play style and frame don't really make for an ideal screener. But I'm very willing to try it and be proven wrong because why the hell not.

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In a Zion/Ingram PnR, you won't have to worry about Ingram's screening, because you're just going to see a switch there. Like tonight, Bey and Sembouya can just switch and you don't really gain anymore advantage than you already had.

Against some teams it may be worthwhile. But the Zion/Redick action seems like a perfect match.

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Originally Posted by luckyman

In a Zion/Ingram PnR, you won't have to worry about Ingram's screening, because you're just going to see a switch there. Like tonight, Bey and Sembouya can just switch and you don't really gain anymore advantage than you already had.

Against some teams it may be worthwhile. But the Zion/Redick action seems like a perfect match.

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Yea that was kind of my point. Guess I should have elaborated. It's not that I think it would fail, I just think Ingram is better attacking a scrambling defense than being directly involved setting the pick, especially considering he's usually gonna have a larger player defending him. An inverted P&R with Zion seems to work better with a quick catch and shoot player like Redick because not only do they have to stick to that guy's hip, but any switch is going to be against a smaller defender.

They absolutely needed this game tonight. The last 5 of this 1st half are kinda brutal.

They really need to try and at least win a minimum 2 of those games.

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Originally Posted by Nola3

Yea that was kind of my point. Guess I should have elaborated. It's not that I think it would fail, I just think Ingram is better attacking a scrambling defense than being directly involved setting the pick, especially considering he's usually gonna have a larger player defending him. An inverted P&R with Zion seems to work better with a quick catch and shoot player like Redick because not only do they have to stick to that guy's hip, but any switch is going to be against a smaller defender.

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Yeah, you're absolutely right, but I think it would only be due diligence to try that inverted PNR down the line and see if there ends up being something to it. But the concern shouldn't be that the PNR will just be switched; naturally Ingram would have to have a smaller player guarding him. The concern as you say is Ingram not being a pure catch and shoot guy and probably not being a great screener due to his slight frame. But again, doesn't hurt to tat least try.

Since they won and this is probably dead now. Just going to leave this here. Had a very Zion-esque 12 - 15 (3 - 5 from three) game, 28 pts. Only 1 assist but it's the g-league. Dudes in there ain't trying to share nothin.

Regardless, 12 - 15 is impressive anywhere.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Whv...nel=nbagleague

If Lakers keep losing, we might get their pick yet! (8-30 protected)

Really happy we put the Pistons down, Zion is so great to watch right now being given more control of the offense. Still going to advocate for keeping Lonzo. Adams looked rested and brought things willy can't. It has dawned on my that with Zion doing so much ball handling and dribble drive it may actually be irrelevant to have a stretch 5.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Zion finishes with 32/6/5 on 13/18 shooting (72.2%).

0 turnovers, 0 fouls.

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To put this in perspective, Lebron hasn’t had a game with 0 turnovers all year. Now obviously, at this point in his career, Zion isn’t creating for others at Lebron’s level yet, but he is getting there. And on the flip side, his shot is nowhere near Lebron’s yet, so he is driving into the teeth of a defense that knows exactly what is coming much more often, yet still cannot stop it. His handle and passing are growing by leaps and bounds this year. At this point he has proven to me that he has truly unlimited potential offensively. Defense remains the only question mark and I think we’ve seen improvement there over last year as well.

We are incredibly fortunate that we get to watch the development of a potentially transcendent NBA talent.

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Originally Posted by pr1840

To put this in perspective, Lebron hasn’t had a game with 0 turnovers all year. Now obviously, at this point in his career, Zion isn’t creating for others at Lebron’s level yet, but he is getting there. And on the flip side, his shot is nowhere near Lebron’s yet, so he is driving into the teeth of a defense that knows exactly what is coming much more often, yet still cannot stop it. His handle and passing are growing by leaps and bounds this year. At this point he has proven to me that he has truly unlimited potential offensively. Defense remains the only question mark and I think we’ve seen improvement there over last year as well.

We are incredibly fortunate that we get to watch the development of a potentially transcendent NBA talent.

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Mostly agree!

I'd be absolutely stunned if Zion ever got legitimately close to Lebron's level of creation, and that's no insult to Zion: plenty of all-time NBA talents have been nowhere close to Lebron as a creator. I have him as a top 5 passer of all time, as do many others, and a lot of people who don't still have him top 10. Similarly, the more ambitious you are as a passer the more turnovers you get but the more high-leverage situations you create: there's a reason guys like Nash and Magic were high turnover players, and it wasn't cause they were being stupid or anything: they were just trying super ambitious passes that worse playmakers would never try.

Still, I agree that Zion's passing and creation has room to grow from here, and it wouldn't shock me if he ended up having a handful of those 25/7/7 seasons that Lebron is so famous for by the time all is said and done.

I also agree that we've seen defensive improvement. Game 1 this season he was flat bad, and while he's not uniformly good now (there are certainly still black marks on his defense and areas to fix) he's gone from 'awful' to just 'mostly fine' with occasional flashes of 'very good'. Hopefully that improves and by the end of his rookie deal we're talking about Zion as a legitimate plus on defense, a real 2 way player.

Zion should be the perenial All NBA 1st team power forward from here on in

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Originally Posted by AusPel

Zion should be the perenial All NBA 1st team power forward from here on in

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So far this year I definitely think he deserves an All-NBA nod. Probably not 1st team, but one of them. Are there 3 PFs definitively more impactful than him in the NBA?

Among PFs (who have played at least 750 minutes) he is:

- 2nd (behind Giannis) in points per game
- 1st in TS%
- 2nd in PER (6th in the entire league)
- 2nd in Win Shares (after Giannis)
- 5th in BPM (after Giannis, AD, KD, and Julius Randle lmao)
- 1st in ScoreVal (Actually leads the league in ScoreVal)
- 5th in EPM (after KD, AD, Bam, and Giannis)

Does this speak to a 3rd team All NBA berth?

You add into that that KD and AD have both missed a ton of a games and will continue to miss more as the season goes on, which damages their hopes, as well as the fact that KD being listed as a PF is more of an artifact of team construction rather than his traditional 'position', it looks even more in his favour.

How do you guys think Zion is developing so far, and his ceiling, compared to Giannis ? :smoker:

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Originally Posted by KoMikaera

How do you guys think Zion is developing so far, and his ceiling, compared to Giannis ? :smoker:

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If we’re being honest “potentially” Zion has the greater ceiling. I’ve never seen a 20 year old with this ability to score at will without even a go to move. I can’t even imagine what he can be capable in a few years

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Originally Posted by KoMikaera

How do you guys think Zion is developing so far, and his ceiling, compared to Giannis ? :smoker:

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Offensively, he has the potential to be better. I think he's a better bet to develop at least competent shooting, and his finishing/volume is already pretty much at the same level. Passing, Zion is around the same level Giannis (perhaps a touch worse) but he's also 6 years younger, so the fact that it's even comparable at this stage is significant.

The defense is where Giannis currently has the huge advantage. Zion has improved to the point where he's no longer just flat awful, and is sometimes quite solid, but Giannis is a deserving DPOY: the gap between them is enormous on that end. Of course, again, Zion has a long time to go and he has been visibly improving so maybe in a year or two we'll be saying different, but right now Zion's defense is the challenge to him ever reaching the impact Giannis has.

Which is not an insult to Zion. Giannis has had some all-time seasons recently. As in, some of the best individual seasons ever. Falling just shy of that would be disappointing, cause we all want Zion to be the greatest ever, but not surprising and certainly not some kind of real failure.

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

If we’re being honest “potentially” Zion has the greater ceiling. I’ve never seen a 20 year old with this ability to score at will without even a go to move. I can’t even imagine what he can be capable in a few years

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agreed

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Originally Posted by KoMikaera

How do you guys think Zion is developing so far, and his ceiling, compared to Giannis ? :smoker:

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Offensively Zion is a prodigy around the basket. I've never seen anyone with this combination of size, strength, vertical and touch around the basket. He's much further along offensively than Giannis was at this early stage of his career.

I kind of thought Zion would be like a Charles Barkely type, but while Barkley was a more agressive rebounder, Barkley didn't have this level of offense this early in his career. I'm not sure who the comparable is to Zion.

Defensively his ceiling is lower than Giannis, mainly because of his height and wingspan. He's always going to struggle with taller players in the post. Fortunately there aren't a lot of players with a post offense anymore. He still needs to move his feet better to stay in front of players and he's going to need to learn how to maneveur around screens better. He's always going to be reffed unfairly with the latter because of his size and strength.

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Originally Posted by Freyfamilyreuni

Offensively Zion is a prodigy around the basket. I've never seen anyone with this combination of size, strength, vertical and touch around the basket. He's much further along offensively than Giannis was at this early stage of his career.

I kind of thought Zion would be like a Charles Barkely type, but while Barkley was a more agressive rebounder, Barkley didn't have this level of offense this early in his career. I'm not sure who the comparable is to Zion.

Defensively his ceiling is lower than Giannis, mainly because of his height and wingspan. He's always going to struggle with taller players in the post. Fortunately there aren't a lot of players with a post offense anymore. He still needs to move his feet better to stay in front of players and he's going to need to learn how to maneveur around screens better. He's always going to be reffed unfairly with the latter because of his size and strength.

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I was making a comparison last night that Zion is the Steph Curry of finishing around the basket. He is a once in a lifetime type finisher to the point where I don?t think there?s anything that defenses will be able to do to stop it for as long as he has his athleticism, similar to Curry from 3. He could potentially be the best finisher of all time at some point soon.

Pertinent to this thread's title....

Boy, the others on the TEAM sure did did get out of the way of The Chosen last night, to let him, by himself, win the game.

--Adams didn't mess up too much.
--Lonzo proved he's still worth at least two second round draft picks in a trade.
--By the hand of The Chosen, Bledsoe was awakened from the dead late in the game
--Despite his laziness, at least BI decided to get out of bed
--And, omnipotent Zion (genuflect here) parted the Mississippi River, turned Water into wine at Antoine's, and cured the COVID19 infection; all while single handedly defeating Detroit.

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Originally Posted by As I See It

Pertinent to this thread's title....

Boy, the others on the TEAM sure did did get out of the way of The Chosen last night, to let him, by himself, win the game.

--Adams didn't mess up too much.
--Lonzo proved he's still worth at least two second round draft picks in a trade.
--By the hand of The Chosen, Bledsoe was awakened from the dead late in the game
--Despite his laziness, at least BI decided to get out of bed
--And, omnipotent Zion (genuflect here) parted the Mississippi River, turned Water into wine at Antoine's, and cured the COVID19 infection; all while single handedly defeating Detroit.

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What is with your hate for Zion? Would you feel better if he were not on the team?

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Originally Posted by As I See It

Pertinent to this thread's title....

Boy, the others on the TEAM sure did did get out of the way of The Chosen last night, to let him, by himself, win the game.

--Adams didn't mess up too much.
--Lonzo proved he's still worth at least two second round draft picks in a trade.
--By the hand of The Chosen, Bledsoe was awakened from the dead late in the game
--Despite his laziness, at least BI decided to get out of bed
--And, omnipotent Zion (genuflect here) parted the Mississippi River, turned Water into wine at Antoine's, and cured the COVID19 infection; all while single handedly defeating Detroit.

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Good one hot take king :hihi:

Van Gundy decided to do coachy stuff instead of eat nachos when the cameras were off.

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Originally Posted by luckyman

Good one hot take king :hihi:

Van Gundy decided to do coachy stuff instead of eat nachos when the cameras were off.

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That too!!!!

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Originally Posted by As I See It

Pertinent to this thread's title....

Boy, the others on the TEAM sure did did get out of the way of The Chosen last night, to let him, by himself, win the game.

--Adams didn't mess up too much.
--Lonzo proved he's still worth at least two second round draft picks in a trade.
--By the hand of The Chosen, Bledsoe was awakened from the dead late in the game
--Despite his laziness, at least BI decided to get out of bed
--And, omnipotent Zion (genuflect here) parted the Mississippi River, turned Water into wine at Antoine's, and cured the COVID19 infection; all while single handedly defeating Detroit.

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You gotta pay the troll toll to get into this boys soul

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

What is with your hate for Zion? Would you feel better if he were not on the team?

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If I had to guess (and maybe this is giving myself too much credit, I don't know) he's not actually hating Zion, he just doesn't like me and since I like to talk about the historic things Zion is doing, he thinks a good way to mock me is to pretend that actually, Zion isn't worth this much talk.

Childish nonsense but you know, that's who we're dealing with here.