January 17th - New Orleans Pelicans @ Sacramento Kings - 4-7

BI is disengaged? Zion doesn't look happy?

Wtf are yall talking about?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by luckyman

BI is disengaged? Zion doesn't look happy?

Wtf are yall talking about?

---

I don't get it either. Are they supposed to be smiling after doing 30 minutes of competitive cardio. I know I ain't...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by donato

I'm worried Zion just isn't happy. Not necessarily NOLA. Just saying.

---

I feel that vibe too. It's a subtle combination of tone, facial expression and words. Nothing overt, but you can feel it when he's interviewed.

But maybe that's just his personality

Also, Mac has made reference to a rift of some sort between Zion and the ball club which he never elaborated on. Saying they're "walking on eggshells" with him

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taker597

I don't get it either. Are they supposed to be smiling after doing 30 minutes of competitive cardio. I know I ain't...

---

:hihi:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AusPel

I feel that vibe too. It's a subtle combination of tone, facial expression and words. Nothing overt, but you can feel it when he's interviewed.

But maybe that's just his personality

Also, Mac has made reference to a rift of some sort between Zion and the ball club which he never elaborated on. Saying they're "walking on eggshells" with him

---

You generally aren't so quick to take MM's claims as gospel. Could it not just be confirmation bias, now that he's said something you already think, that leads you to believe he has something?

We need to face the kings more often...it benefits both teams as well... Zion going off for us and Fox and Bagley going off for them

Zion walks like a grumpy guy or mad little kid lol.. I think you guys are reading more into that. I see him annoyed with refs, that's about it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AusPel

I feel that vibe too. It's a subtle combination of tone, facial expression and words. Nothing overt, but you can feel it when he's interviewed.

But maybe that's just his personality

Also, Mac has made reference to a rift of some sort between Zion and the ball club which he never elaborated on. Saying they're "walking on eggshells" with him

---

That was back when. Burst Limit was done. The minutes fiasco is long gone.

Yea, Zion does sometimes come off as a little petulant. I think it’s his way of being hard on himself.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taker597

That was back when. Burst Limit was done. The minutes fiasco is long gone.

---

Yeah, that's all I ever heard. That he was annoyed at the minutes limit last season. Nobody I've seen has reported anything this year regarding a misalignment, a rift, a divide, a disagreement, or any other such thing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Freyfamilyreuni

Yea, Zion does sometimes come off as a little petulant. I think it’s his way of being hard on himself.

---

Agreed.. I see him getting pissed at himself and refs. Nothing more.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

You generally aren't so quick to take MM's claims as gospel. Could it not just be confirmation bias, now that he's said something you already think, that leads you to believe he has something?

---

I don't think it's confirmation bias. Either what Mac said was the truth or a lie. I'm gonna assume he's not lieing on what is a factual and not subjective take.

There's either a problem with Zion and the club, or there isn't. No middle ground

From @ESPNStatsInfo: Zion Williamson's 13-15 (.866) shooting is the highest FG pct in a 30-point game in Pelicans franchise history.

Also, he's the youngest player in the last 35 seasons with at least 30 points on 85% FG or better while also shooting 100% from the line.

— Andrew Lopez (@_Andrew_Lopez) January 18, 2021

What about that Jaxson Hayes short jumper huh?

Making all the doubters steadily eat their words.

y'all are fr weirdos. There's nothing there with Zion. Period.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by luckyman

What about that Jaxson Hayes short jumper huh?

Making all the doubters steadily eat their words.

---

He's hit a few of those now, and has hit a small collection (I think 3? 2?) threes as well. Combine that with the fact that his form is good and he has good touch around the rim, I'm convinced he can be a reasonable shooter. He's not some KAT in waiting or anything, but I think he can be acceptable at hitting jumpers.

Zion did well

Kings are also historically the worst defensive team since they began keeping records

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

He's hit a few of those now, and has hit a small collection (I think 3? 2?) threes as well. Combine that with the fact that his form is good and he has good touch around the rim, I'm convinced he can be a reasonable shooter. He's not some KAT in waiting or anything, but I think he can be acceptable at hitting jumpers.

---

If defenders have to start respecting Jax's outside game, that is a seismic shift on this team's ceiling

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

From @ESPNStatsInfo: Zion Williamson's 13-15 (.866) shooting is the highest FG pct in a 30-point game in Pelicans franchise history.

Also, he's the youngest player in the last 35 seasons with at least 30 points on 85% FG or better while also shooting 100% from the line.

— Andrew Lopez (@_Andrew_Lopez) January 18, 2021

---

But Zion needs to shot threes to be good...

/sarcasm

48 combined minutes for NAW and Kira, 10 assists and 0 turnovers.

Solid outing for the two young guards who need these reps

— Shamit Dua (@FearTheBrown) January 18, 2021

This is after 49 combined minutes with only 2 turnovers in the Clippers game.

Yeah, NAW turned it over a bunch against LA but still, this is a good sign.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

He's hit a few of those now, and has hit a small collection (I think 3? 2?) threes as well. Combine that with the fact that his form is good and he has good touch around the rim, I'm convinced he can be a reasonable shooter. He's not some KAT in waiting or anything, but I think he can be acceptable at hitting jumpers.

---

I don't think anyone doubt him, either.

Dae and I were pretty adamant on draft day that his form has great potential to be a reliable jumpshot.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

He's hit a few of those now, and has hit a small collection (I think 3? 2?) threes as well. Combine that with the fact that his form is good and he has good touch around the rim, I'm convinced he can be a reasonable shooter. He's not some KAT in waiting or anything, but I think he can be acceptable at hitting jumpers.

---

His upside is still a great unknown. I think he can be a KAT. Form is good. Just takes reps and confidence. He's still only 20.

While he's hit some runner/push shots, this is the first time I've seen him hit a legit jump shot near the FT line.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AusPel

Zion did well

Kings are also historically the worst defensive team since they began keeping records

---

This is a fair point to make.

The Kings DRtg of 121.2 so far this season is not just the worst DRtg of all time, but it's the worst by a huge margin. They're 3.6 points per 100 worse than the next worst team, which is the 2018-19 Cavs. Followed by the 2020-21 Timberwolves.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by luckyman

His upside is still a great unknown. I think he can be a KAT. Form is good. Just takes reps and confidence. He's still only 20.

While he's hit some runner/push shots, this is the first time I've seen him hit a legit jump shot near the FT line.

---

He Has a good form, but I don't think he'll be versatile in having a bag full of different shots like KAT or AD. I hope tho. I love Hayes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by luckyman

His upside is still a great unknown. I think he can be a KAT. Form is good. Just takes reps and confidence. He's still only 20.

While he's hit some runner/push shots, this is the first time I've seen him hit a legit jump shot near the FT line.

---

I mean, KAT is the greatest big man shooter of all time, no offense to Dirk, so that's why I'm extremely hesitant to put Jax on that particular level.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

This is a fair point to make.

The Kings DRtg of 121.2 so far this season is not just the worst DRtg of all time, but it's the worst by a huge margin. They're 3.6 points per 100 worse than the next worst team, which is the 2018-19 Cavs. Followed by the 2020-21 Timberwolves.

---

This was probably the 1st time we got sucked into another team's hand and beat them at their own game. Which we struggle mightily this season when teams corner us to play a certain way.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taker597

He Has a good form, but I don't think he'll be versatile in having a bag full of different shots like KAT or AD. I hope tho. I love Hayes.

---

I think people often underestimate exactly how ridiculous a shooter KAT is.

List of players 6'11 or taller who have ever shot at least 40% from 3 on at least 7 attempts per game:

- Karl Anthony Towns

That's the list

And he shoots pullups, he shoots coming off movement, off screens.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AusPel

If defenders have to start respecting Jax's outside game, that is a seismic shift on this team's ceiling

---

This

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I think people often underestimate exactly how ridiculous a shooter KAT is.

List of players 6'11 or taller who have ever shot at least 40% from 3 on at least 7 attempts per game:

- Karl Anthony Towns

That's the list

And he shoots pullups, he shoots coming off movement, off screens.

---

Yeah, I'm thinking like a nice mid range ceiling not perimeter big. KAT has deep bag of moves even if he mad struggles in the playoffs. Which I think people put too much focus on his body of work.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I think people often underestimate exactly how ridiculous a shooter KAT is.

List of players 6'11 or taller who have ever shot at least 40% from 3 on at least 7 attempts per game:

- Karl Anthony Towns

That's the list

And he shoots pullups, he shoots coming off movement, off screens.

---

Obviously Jax won't get there

But I think he can possibly be Marc Gasol from range

Or Vucevic. Either would be a great result

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I think people often underestimate exactly how ridiculous a shooter KAT is.

List of players 6'11 or taller who have ever shot at least 40% from 3 on at least 7 attempts per game:

- Karl Anthony Towns

That's the list

And he shoots pullups, he shoots coming off movement, off screens.

---

That is a completely quantitative argument with an arbitrary cut off point. For that reason alone KAT cannot be above Dirk or even Rasheed Wallace imo. But I'm not getting drawn into that. :hihi:

But yeah Jax has that potential still.

Mac and Shamit having a little tiff on Twitter

Magic Johnson has taken over Shamit's account for the rest of the night https://t.co/tBz0fpLmMO

— Michael McNamara (@michael_stokley) January 18, 2021

What does this mean for the future of BourbonStreetShots?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AusPel

Obviously Jax won't get there

But I think he can possibly be Marc Gasol from range

Or Vucevic. Either would be a great result

---

Oh totally, if he could be Vucevic (34.9% from 3 on about 3 a game over the last 4 years) then that's huge for him, and huge for the team as well. That's good enough that you can't just abandon him, and on enough volume for it to start counting. Long way to go for that though. Biggest step is for him to start taking them: at least once a game I see him stranded on the perimeter with nobody moving around and he's picked up his dribble and he has to just wait for someone else to move. In those moments, he should just pull 'em.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Oh totally, if he could be Vucevic (34.9% from 3 on about 3 a game over the last 4 years) then that's huge for him, and huge for the team as well. That's good enough that you can't just abandon him, and on enough volume for it to start counting. Long way to go for that though. Biggest step is for him to start taking them: at least once a game I see him stranded on the perimeter with nobody moving around and he's picked up his dribble and he has to just wait for someone else to move. In those moments, he should just pull 'em.

---

Agreed. If he's still doing that in 2 years time then it's a fail :hihi:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by luckyman

That is a completely quantitative argument with an arbitrary cut off point. For that reason alone KAT cannot be above Dirk or even Rasheed Wallace imo. But I'm not getting drawn into that. :hihi:

But yeah Jax has that potential still.

---

If you drop it to 38% and 5 a game, that list increases to

- Karl Anthony Towns
- Jaren Jackson
- Channing Frye.

If you drop it to 38% and 4 a game, it adds

- Dirk Nowitzki
- Troy Murphy
- Kristaps Porzingis
- Mehmet Okur

So yeah, even if you drop the volume massively you don't add many names. Obviously not dropping the 3pt% because if you're shooting less than 38% from 3 you're not an elite shooter, so trying to find the list of elite shooters requires a floor. Of course it's an arbitrary cut off point because anyone setting any statistical boundary is setting an arbitrary cut off point. Unless you think you know the objective limit at which someone passes between low to high volume shooting, in which case I'd love to hear it.

How about peak Shawn Marion for Hayes shooting ceiling?

Was a 40% shooter from deep at his best

I'll be happy with 36-38% at 3 attempts a game to go with good defense, rebounding, shot protection and rim running/rolling.

Feels like asking for all of that might be a bit much.

I'll take the rim running, rebounding he's flashed already, the passing, and solid defense. I'd love 34% from 3 on decent volume too but frankly if you're getting everything else then I can leave it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Feels like asking for all of that might be a bit much.

I'll take the rim running, rebounding he's flashed already, the passing, and solid defense. I'd love 34% from 3 on decent volume too but frankly if you're getting everything else then I can leave it.

---

The situation where Jax's outside shot has to be respected is best case scenario

That would have to come as a function of proving he's a good shooter

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

If you drop it to 38% and 5 a game, that list increases to

- Karl Anthony Towns
- Jaren Jackson
- Channing Frye.

If you drop it to 38% and 4 a game, it adds

- Dirk Nowitzki
- Troy Murphy
- Kristaps Porzingis
- Mehmet Okur

So yeah, even if you drop the volume massively you don't add many names. Obviously not dropping the 3pt% because if you're shooting less than 38% from 3 you're not an elite shooter, so trying to find the list of elite shooters requires a floor. Of course it's an arbitrary cut off point because anyone setting any statistical boundary is setting an arbitrary cut off point. Unless you think you know the objective limit at which someone passes between low to high volume shooting, in which case I'd love to hear it.

---

Again, all quantitative. The point being KAT has only been in a playoff series ONCE in his entire career, and you are elevating him above bigs that were known for shooting 3s on playoff teams and title contenders. And hit them at big moments of those games.

For example, KAT shot 42% during the regular season in his lone playoff year (2017/2018), which dropped to 27% in their playoff series that same year. They lost that series 4-1.

Meanwhile, bigs like Dirk and Rasheed were nailing big shot 3s throughout the playoffs and championship series. KAT has gained those numbers in too many games that don't matter, being on a lottery team most of his career.

Thats why, imo, it's disrespectful to those I've named, to solely look at his shooting the way you are. Especially to Dirk. When KAT starts holding those numbers into the playoffs like those other guys, then' it's a debate.

Thats all I'm going to say.

Carry on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AusPel

The situation where Jax's outside shot has to be respected is best case scenario

That would have to come as a function of proving he's a good shooter

---

Being a 34% shooter on good volume (3+ is solid volume for a big) is more valuable than being a 40% shooter on 0.5 a game, I think we'd all agree. It's a balance between volume and accuracy.

Of course in a perfect world, he'd be a 40% shooter on 10 a game, but at a certain point you're asking for too much. As I just listed, only 7 players in NBA history of Jax's size have shot 38% or better on 4 or more a game. Of course I agree that if he became a historically good big man shooter that would be great, but I feel like asking for it is a bit presumptuous.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Being a 34% shooter on good volume (3+ is solid volume for a big) is more valuable than being a 40% shooter on 0.5 a game, I think we'd all agree. It's a balance between volume and accuracy.

Of course in a perfect world, he'd be a 40% shooter on 10 a game, but at a certain point you're asking for too much. As I just listed, only 7 players in NBA history of Jax's size have shot 38% or better on 4 or more a game. Of course I agree that if he became a historically good big man shooter that would be great, but I feel like asking for it is a bit presumptuous.

---

I'm not asking for a historical shooter. Just one that's respected enough to have gravitas

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AusPel

I'm not asking for a historical shooter. Just one that's respected enough to have gravitas

---

That's fine but if you're asking a 7 footer for 38% on 3 a game, as Snarly was, then you are asking for a historical shooter.

Thought that was as bouncy and explosive as I’ve seen Zion since before the bubble, maybe since pre-knee injury. It had been a while since he added anything to his highlight reel...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by new city champ

Thought that was as bouncy and explosive as I’ve seen Zion since before the bubble, maybe since pre-knee injury. It had been a while since he added anything to his highlight reel...

---

Agree with this assertion

I don't think it's any coincidence that his explosion is returning with him getting in better shape

If JAX ever could get somewhat proficient from the perimeter, then help on the high screen and roll would have to come from the weakside (defenders wouldn't abandon JAX on 'switch for help'). This would open up either the skinny three from the corner or the driving lanes in the paint. This, alone would change the whole offensive dynamic of the team.

I like how Mac posits himself as not a fan but an neutral observer, but his thoughts and opinions on players swing wildly as much as any emotional fan :hihi:

He's completely back on board the Zion bandwagon now

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

That's fine but if you're asking a 7 footer for 38% on 3 a game, as Snarly was, then you are asking for a historical shooter.

---

A Jaxon Vucevic would be awesome. I’d settle for an approximation of his fellow Longhorn, Lamarcus Aldridge...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by As I See It

If JAX ever could get somewhat proficient from the perimeter, then help on the high screen and roll would have to come from the weakside (defenders wouldn't abandon JAX on 'switch for help'). This would open up either the skinny three from the corner or the driving lanes in the paint. This, alone would change the whole offensive dynamic of the team.

---

Exactly. I alluded to this earlier in the thread

It's going to be really interesting to see what SVG does when Lonzo is back. If he inserts him back in the starting lineup, I might not watch the game.

Even when NAW/Kira aren't shooting well, they do other things you need guards to do.

If Lonzo can be traded now I pretty much do it for peanuts.