SICK OF WATCHING RIVERS

I think Rivers is a slasher who can also pass. I don't think he will be effective against teams with good interior defense for the most part. Seems we should always say he sucks because he will probably play better and better.

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Originally Posted by HoustonPelicans

Okay I see what you're saying. Sorry, I was being irrational. But the last 1/3rd of last season Rivers played well enough for a 21 year old to earn his option imo. You can't keep looking back at his rookie season when considering his future. If GMs stayed in the past no way do Ariza get his contract this summer.

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Ariza played the entire last year of his deal lights out, probably one of the best seasons of his career, Austin had a good what last month or 2 months of the season? Before that it looked like the same guy from his rookie year. The declined option isn't saying we don't want him here anymore. It's saying prove to us you are worth it and we will reward you with a deal. That's all, it's the same thing the Saints are doing with Mark Ingram and I like that approach.

Truth to tell ingram's last year was about 5 millions and nearly no rb is worth that kind of money, certainly not him, the way the rb market has been recently.

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Originally Posted by Kurgan

Truth to tell ingram's last year was about 5 millions and nearly no rb is worth that kind of money, certainly not him, the way the rb market has been recently.

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I bet Jerry Jones agrees but he's probably going to have to end up paying at least that :hihi:

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Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar

Ariza played the entire last year of his deal lights out, probably one of the best seasons of his career, Austin had a good what last month or 2 months of the season? Before that it looked like the same guy from his rookie year. The declined option isn't saying we don't want him here anymore. It's saying prove to us you are worth it and we will reward you with a deal. That's all, it's the same thing the Saints are doing with Mark Ingram and I like that approach.

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But what if he outplay what we're allowed to pay. Then we're out of luck. That's why I didn't't see the point of declining the option, iy served no purpose.

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Originally Posted by HoustonPelicans

But what if he outplay what we're allowed to pay. Then we're out of luck. That's why I didn't't see the point of declining the option, iy served no purpose.

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Out of luck? No, then we are out of a backup PG or 7th man on our roster that we can replace.

Hard to see him getting more than 3 mil next year unless he convinces someone he is a sure fire starting guard. Backup guards don't have a huge market. I mean, we make fun of Brian Roberts but he had a nice year last year and only got 2.5 mil per.

The bigger worry is that he gets a multi-year offer and we have to give him the same. The thing I liked about picking up the option is that you basically had him on a year-to-year contract that you could control and if he didn't play well, you could just not give him a QO prior to the 2016 FA period, when we will actually hit free agency hard.

But such is life. I wrote a piece for Dell to read laying all this out and he made a different decision. Such is life. I still don't think this will be a major factor one way or the other

I don't remember what Rivers contract was for next season, but lets say 3.1M.
If another team offers him 3.1each year for 3 year, are you saying the Pels can still match or does
it come down to who Austin chooses between the two teams even if they are both the same money?

This thread seems odd. Rivers is clearly outplaying our 1 and only max player.......

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Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN

I don't remember what Rivers contract was for next season, but lets say 3.1M.
If another team offers him 3.1each year for 3 year, are you saying the Pels can still match or does
it come down to who Austin chooses between the two teams even if they are both the same money?

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The way I understand it is whatever potential deal we offer Rivers, the 1st year of that deal CANNOT be HIGHER than the amount of the option we just declined. We can make up for it and make his salary higher in additional years but that 1st year cannot be higher. So in your example we couldn't offer Rivers a contract where the 1st year was more than 3.1mil.

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Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar

The way I understand it is whatever potential deal we offer Rivers, the 1st year of that deal CANNOT be HIGHER than the amount of the option we just declined. We can make up for it and make his salary higher in additional years but that 1st year cannot be higher. So in your example we couldn't offer Rivers a contract where the 1st year was more than 3.1mil.

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Correct

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Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar

The way I understand it is whatever potential deal we offer Rivers, the 1st year of that deal CANNOT be HIGHER than the amount of the option we just declined. We can make up for it and make his salary higher in additional years but that 1st year cannot be higher. So in your example we couldn't offer Rivers a contract where the 1st year was more than 3.1mil.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Correct

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Thanks.
But again if both salaries are the same from the two teams do Pels win out
or does Rivers get to choose where he wants to play?

Let's say where he will get more opportunities.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Hard to see him getting more than 3 mil next year unless he convinces someone he is a sure fire starting guard. Backup guards don't have a huge market. I mean, we make fun of Brian Roberts but he had a nice year last year and only got 2.5 mil per.

The bigger worry is that he gets a multi-year offer and we have to give him the same. The thing I liked about picking up the option is that you basically had him on a year-to-year contract that you could control and if he didn't play well, you could just not give him a QO prior to the 2016 FA period, when we will actually hit free agency hard.

But such is life. I wrote a piece for Dell to read laying all this out and he made a different decision. Such is life. I still don't think this will be a major factor one way or the other

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2016 you say?

I wonder which FA we could be targeting.......



http://cdn2.newsok.biz/cache/r620-61...0ae8fe82fe.jpg

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Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN

Thanks.
But again if both salaries are the same from the two teams do Pels win out
or does Rivers get to choose where he wants to play?

Let's say where he will get more opportunities.

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Since we declined his option he is an unrestricted free agent, he can chose to sign with whoever he wants. He could even take less money to play somewhere else if he wanted to.

Overreacting to how a player plays for a few games can cause bad contracts to come about. Let's see how he does consistently.

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Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar

The way I understand it is whatever potential deal we offer Rivers, the 1st year of that deal CANNOT be HIGHER than the amount of the option we just declined. We can make up for it and make his salary higher in additional years but that 1st year cannot be higher. So in your example we couldn't offer Rivers a contract where the 1st year was more than 3.1mil.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Correct

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Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar

Since we declined his option he is an unrestricted free agent, he can chose to sign with whoever he wants. He could even take less money to play somewhere else if he wanted to.

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Ta.
It's what I thought.

I totally dig our GM.

But Rivers was the beginning of a series of decisions that I don't agree with. I wish we would have been content with growing a little slower instead of speeding it up and possibly lowering our ceiling

We were like ,yay! we got AD, let's blow our 10th pick" instead of going for either:


either
Tony Wroten
Terrance Jones
Draymond Green
Kris Middleton
or many more (henson)

2013: keep nerlens noel or draft MCW Micheal Carter Williams or even giannis

2014: Elfrid Payton

If we trade nothing since the AD pick, these teams would be on rookie contracts


Henson
Davis
McDermott
MCW

Henson
Davis
Giannis
Elfird

Noel
Davis
Terrance Jones
Elfrid

ect

There are no winners in the game of "What if..."

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

There are no winners in the game of "What if..."

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you are exactly right, but that doesn't seem to keep anyone from playing....

What if the Pacers didn't take George and the Pistons didn't take Drummond?!?! What if Kobe was never traded from the Hornets? What if Shaq started playing again? What if LBJ decided to leave Cleveland again? What if Durant can't stand AD's unibrow?

Let's play the reality game. It's far more constructive.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

If you are offended by Avery Bradley as Rivers ceiling, then I have a feeling you will be very disappointed by how his career plays out. Not everyone can be great. Being one of the top 100 players in the world (which Bradley is) is an amazing accomplishment. Does Rivers handle better? Sure. Bradley has other skill sets than Rivers won't touch. But role wise - great defensive guard who can knock down shots and score in bunches from time to time, I think that is his ceiling, and that is a compliment in my eyes.

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Not offended at all. Just ridiculous to say his ceiling is Avery Bradley. That is basically saying he will not improve anymore than what he is not or what he has already done. Rivers right now and end of last season is playing at a higher level than maybe Bradley ever will. I think Beadley can improve also but do not believe he possesses near the skills of Rivers. I could go on and on with players who weren't the same caliber as Rivers and had terrible or mediocre seasons for the first few years to become stars, 6th men of the year, or very good starters. Ryan Anderson is one for example on our own team! What would you have said his ceiling was before he had time to develop and break out? Luke Bobbit? I mean come on that is a joke ceiling.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Hard to see him getting more than 3 mil next year unless he convinces someone he is a sure fire starting guard. Backup guards don't have a huge market. I mean, we make fun of Brian Roberts but he had a nice year last year and only got 2.5 mil per.

The bigger worry is that he gets a multi-year offer and we have to give him the same. The thing I liked about picking up the option is that you basically had him on a year-to-year contract that you could control and if he didn't play well, you could just not give him a QO prior to the 2016 FA period, when we will actually hit free agency hard.

But such is life. I wrote a piece for Dell to read laying all this out and he made a different decision. Such is life. I still don't think this will be a major factor one way or the other

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Brian Roberts did not just go get a new license so he can show he is legal to drink. Come on no comparison with salary. Rivers potential will get a deal way more than what Roberts who had 90% of us pulling our hair out praying for an under developed Rivers to get on the floor. 29 other teams out there and if he has even a decent year from what he is doing now someone will snatch him up. Just made no sense not to keep control of him for that price. If anything we could dump him in a trade.

Bradley is barely better than Rivers now? Rivers was better than Bradley at the end of last year?

Okay, I see the confusion - you don't know who Avery Bradley is. He is one of the top 3 defensive guards in the league who is putting up a measly 17.3 pts per game on .475% this season, including 40% from three where he takes 5 attempts per game.

That is a Jrue Holiday level type of player, let alone Austin Rivers. If I said Rivers ceiling was Holiday, would it be an insult? Bradley is really, really, really good.

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Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25

Brian Roberts did not just go get a new license so he can show he is legal to drink. Come on no comparison with salary. Rivers potential will get a deal way more than what Roberts who had 90% of us pulling our hair out praying for an under developed Rivers to get on the floor. 29 other teams out there and if he has even a decent year from what he is doing now someone will snatch him up. Just made no sense not to keep control of him for that price. If anything we could dump him in a trade.

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There was one guy who wrote an article begging Dell to pick up the option - so you are preaching to the choir.

http://www.bourbonstreetshots.com/20...rivers-option/

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Bradley is barely better than Rivers now? Rivers was better than Bradley at the end of last year?

Okay, I see the confusion - you don't know who Avery Bradley is. He is one of the top 3 defensive guards in the league who is putting up a measly 17.3 pts per game on .475% this season, including 40% from three where he takes 5 attempts per game.

That is a Jrue Holiday level type of player, let alone Austin Rivers. If I said Rivers ceiling was Holiday, would it be an insult? Bradley is really, really, really good.

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Jesus Christ if Rivers gave us that type of production I literally wouldn't care what Gordon was doing, at all. 40% from 3 on 5 attempts a game would be sick and just what we need. Not even mentioning 47% from the field and defense.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Bradley is barely better than Rivers now? Rivers was better than Bradley at the end of last year?

Okay, I see the confusion - you don't know who Avery Bradley is. He is one of the top 3 defensive guards in the league who is putting up a measly 17.3 pts per game on .475% this season, including 40% from three where he takes 5 attempts per game.

That is a Jrue Holiday level type of player, let alone Austin Rivers. If I said Rivers ceiling was Holiday, would it be an insult? Bradley is really, really, really good.

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/endthread

don't look now but rivers is shooting a ridiculous 67% at the rim.

Rivers!!!! MVP MVP, lmao

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

What if the Pacers didn't take George and the Pistons didn't take Drummond?!?! What if Kobe was never traded from the Hornets? What if Shaq started playing again? What if LBJ decided to leave Cleveland again? What if Durant can't stand AD's unibrow?

Let's play the reality game. It's far more constructive.

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Lol....great point

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

don't look now but rivers is shooting a ridiculous 67% at the rim.

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I looked.

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Originally Posted by Vinny6420

Rivers!!!! MVP MVP, lmao

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I will start this chant at the first home game where he deserves player of the game.

I'm not giving up on Rivers. He's my underdog. I'm gonna root for him Saturday vs spurs. He's going to prove us all wrong. Coach better give him time like he did vs Hornets because when he gets time he will prove himself.


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How can he prove us ALL wrong, when we all have different opinions of who he is and who he can become?

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

How can he prove us ALL wrong, when we all have different opinions of who he is and who he can become?

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By maintaing his current unexpected production. Who would've thunk he would would finish at the basket and improve his FT%? Not me

But some of us have given him a ceiling of Avery Bradley, and others Kobe apparently, so is the fact that he is averaging a blistering 7 points per game unexpected production for everyone? Or just some/most?

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

But some of us have given him a ceiling of Avery Bradley, and others Kobe apparently, so is the fact that he is averaging a blistering 7 points per game unexpected production for everyone? Or just some/most?

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His FT shooting is still poor. He has only had one really solid game so far. But, I'm impressed with more than his stats. He is playing better on the court and he shows more confidence. I think we need 10-15 more games before we say he's a new and significantly improved Rivers. If he can hit the 3, improve FT percentage, and hit more midrange shots then I'm going to be very happy.

Rivers already has very good ball handling, above average defense, solid passing, high IQ, and decent rebounding. I think most of the forum is full of wishful thinking and even the Bradley comparison may be too high of a ceiling. It probably is too high. But, I still think Rivers could prove himself this year. I'm going to hope for the best.


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My ceiling for AR is, a guy we won't regret not giving an extension to. His floor, probably asking MSG what he has to do to get a job selling Cotten candys, and what it takes to be promoted to beer man.

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Originally Posted by speedyG

I looked.

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disobedient!

His ceiling is monte ellis with better defense, i'll take that any day from my 3rd guard
His floor is avery bradley with a better offensive arsenal and a slightly worse defender

this is just my opinion. someone flame away.

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

His ceiling is monte ellis with better defense, i'll take that any day from my 3rd guard
His floor is avery bradley with a better offensive arsenal and a slightly worse defender

this is just my opinion. someone flame away.

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No flame, I just wish I could watch sports thru your eyes for 1 day.

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Originally Posted by redrum

No flame, I just wish I could watch sports thru your eyes for 1 day.

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Well the monte comparison comes from his ability to get the rim, regardless of what people say, rivers can get to the basket as good as anyone, u just can't stay infront of him, his problem is finishing, but if he ever does become a finisher he will compare to ellis because ellis can get to the rim whenever he wants and is also a strong finisher.

the bradley comparison is one of a combo guard, who can defend, hit the 3, and pass well.

Go compare Bradley and Rivers 1st season. No comparison because Bradley played 5 mins a game. Go compare the 2nd season with averaging the same points. Rivers is in his 3rd season and you are trying to compare him to Bradley's stats right now? Is that fair if your saying Bradley is Rivers ceiling? Rivers rookie year averaged more assists per game than Bradley has his entire career. Rivers in all 3 season has assisted more per game than Bradley ever. If we can talk about Bradley's start from 3% we can talk about Rivers shooting 52% right now from the field which is more than Bradley ever has along with an elite % at the rim.. Rivers is showing more potential right now than Bradley was at this point with a skill set and tools potential wise way better. Rivers is a dual guard while Bradley is stuck as a defensive specialist that can shoot off of Rondo. He is playing on an offense with almost 0 offensive weapons while we have more mouths to feed than almost any team in the NBA! Not to mention Rivers is playing much less minutes and showing if he was given more oppurtunities like Bradley and became more of the guy he could do a lot more. He has done nothing as of late last season and early this season to show otherwise. He was getting near triple doubles every game last year with starter minutes. If he fixes his shot along with FT % then he will be twice as hard to stop than Bradley. The ceiling is no compariosn. Don't think to many people are jumping from a Bradley to Kobe compariosn either who is one of the greatest of all time. I believe he can have a similar impact on offense to Jamal Crawford if he can fix his shot siniliar to the way Danny Green, Leonard, and many others have. He has an elite ability to get to the rim and is now finishing at an elite level. Having really good court vision so far, has been good on the boards for a guard and plays excellent defense. Let Rivers develop like Bradley and give him 30 mins a game with half the mouths to feed in his year 4 and 5 I think most people take Rivers all day.

seem pretty butt hurt about the Bradley comparison, not sure why. rivers has played two games with a decent fg% that is making it look good so far. Bradley had times throughout his third season with good numbers too. Game 27 & 28 of the 12-13 season. just give it a rest. He's had 2 pretty poor years, is looking better, lets hope he can keep that consistency.

Avery Bradley doesn't pass the ball and has tunnel vision on offense, he's an excellent off the ball scorer.

Austin is a scorer first too, but he has better court vision and playmaking ability than Avery.

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Originally Posted by Austin Rivers

Avery Bradley doesn't pass the ball and has tunnel vision on offense, he's an excellent off the ball scorer.

Austin is a scorer first too, but he has better court vision and playmaking ability than Avery.

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which is why i like the poor man's monta ellis comparison

Ellis never played a minute of defense or of sensible offensive bball (in place of ball hogging and ball hero) in his life or so, i honestly don't see the comparison

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

His ceiling is monte ellis with better defense, i'll take that any day from my 3rd guard
His floor is avery bradley with a better offensive arsenal and a slightly worse defender

this is just my opinion. someone flame away.

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Either you or myself isn't understanding what someone's floor means. If Avery Bradley is Rivers' floor then Rivers is going to be in many all star games for years to come.

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

His ceiling is monte ellis with better defense, i'll take that any day from my 3rd guard
His floor is avery bradley with a better offensive arsenal and a slightly worse defender

this is just my opinion. someone flame away.

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If his FLOOR is Bradley, I literally would walk up to Dell and slap the **** out of him. And when he he asks "Why?", I'd yell, "YOU KNOW WHY!"

I just can't get behind his floor being so high.

It isn't.

When did Avery Bradly become such a hot commodity?