Eric Bledsoe or Trey Burke

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Originally Posted by Nola Hornet

Smart will likely be taken in the top 3 so unless the team somehow lands ahead of Orlando, I don't see the point of comparing burke with smart.

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Because I am secretly hoping that ORL falls in love with Burke and drafts him! hahaha

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Originally Posted by Nola Hornet

Smart will likely be taken in the top 3 so unless the team somehow lands ahead of Orlando, I don't see the point of comparing burke with smart.

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say we get lucky in the lottery and get the 2nd overall pick and smart and burke are on the board. Now do u see the point?

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

say we get lucky in the lottery and get the 2nd overall pick and smart and burke are on the board. Now do u see the point?

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Nope. Because, there will be no comparison if that was the case.

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Originally Posted by Nola Hornet

Nope. Because, there will be no comparison if that was the case.

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Can u explain?

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

Can u explain?

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Like you said earlier in a couple of your posts. BPA. Burke wouldn't be BPA at 2.

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Originally Posted by Nola Hornet

Like you said earlier in a couple of your posts. BPA. Burke wouldn't be BPA at 2.

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Ok fair enough, let me ask u this, regardless of pick and burke and smart are both on the board and u have to take one, who would u take?

I have no preference. I'm not wowed by any prospect in this draft. I'll be happy with anyone outside of Zeller and Bennett in the top 8.

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Originally Posted by Nola Hornet

I'm not wowed by any prospect in this draft.

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Agreed. No one jumps out at all.

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Originally Posted by nolaslim213

I learned how to play defense at the age of 12. Now, I had a truly great basketball coach who was a legend in the Biddy basketball circuit. I picked up a lot of the same principles that Monty preaches to his guys as a child, so I know that fully grown men can do it. It's about desire and selflessness. Defense won't show up in the box score, and you certainly won't get praised for it by the media. People don't want to improve their defense because they are working on their offense all the time.

I would say Burke certainly has the quickness, speed, and wingspan to improve as a defender (which he really isn't a bad defender at all). Mostly, he wants to win, and he is rumored to be very coachable, so I would expect him to take in everything Monty can give him (just like Rivers did).

Moreover, if offense were as easy to develop as you say it is, then why aren't most of the players in the league good offensive players? Why don't most/all guards shoot 40% from 3 if it's so easy to develop a shot? I'm pretty firm in my stance that defense is easier to develop than offense.

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If you're pretty firm on your stance, then no point in arguing.

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

Ok fair enough, let me ask u this, regardless of pick and burke and smart are both on the board and u have to take one, who would u take?

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Smart, for me. I'm a big believer in players with high defensive floors, though. Smart is already going to enter the league as a slightly above-average defender, at the very least. With Smart, I know I'm getting a good defender who already has the size to get to the rim and finish. With Burke there are still a lot more question marks, granted he may answer them in the coming months with the draft process. I think Smart has a higher ceiling, as well. They are clearly the best 2 guards in this class though in my opinion. I have a hard time being sold on Mclemore.

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Originally Posted by Nola Hornet

I have no preference. I'm not wowed by any prospect in this draft. I'll be happy with anyone outside of Zeller and Bennett in the top 8.

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Ok well regardless of ur preference who do u think is the better player? U said burke will be gone in the top 3 so u obviously value him highly.

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Originally Posted by MeSoHornets504

Smart, for me. I'm a big believer in players with high defensive floors, though. Smart is already going to enter the league as a slightly above-average defender, at the very least. With Smart, I know I'm getting a good defender who already has the size to get to the rim and finish. With Burke there are still a lot more question marks, granted he may answer them in the coming months with the draft process. I think Smart has a higher ceiling, as well. They are clearly the best 2 guards in this class though in my opinion. I have a hard time being sold on Mclemore.

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good points

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

Ok well regardless of ur preference who do u think is the better player? U said burke will be gone in the top 3 so u obviously value him highly.

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Never said that. They're different players. I see no point in comparing them. The only difference I see is the ceiling. Smart isn't even guaranteed to be a PG at the next level. For all we know, he could be a SG that handles the ball alot.

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Originally Posted by Nola Hornet

Never said that. They're different players. I see no point in comparing them. The only difference I see is the ceiling. Smart isn't even guaranteed to be a PG at the next level. For all we know, he could be a SG that handles the ball alot.

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I know they are different players, that is obvious, i want ur opinion of which do u think is better

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

I know they are different players, that is obvious, i want ur opinion of which do u think is better

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Burke is clearly the better player today.

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Originally Posted by Nola Hornet

Burke is clearly the better player today.

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who do u think will be the better player 4 years down the road

How can you say Burke is the better player when he hasn't played an NBA game yet? That's just silly.

I like smart better as a prospect and Burke as a pg if that makes sense. Also it shouldn't be BPA, it should be bTA

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Originally Posted by nikkoewan

I disagree with this one. I think alot of people will. Defense requires an acute understanding of space, angles, rotation and couple of other innate attributes like quickness, speed, wingspan, etc...

A lot of things about offense boils down to individual repetition -- especially shooting. Most especially shooting.

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Defense is 75% about effort. Carmelo has looked like a lock down defender at times in this league.

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Hmm only situation "BPA" doesn't apply (IMO) is if you think they are equals. Rarely does that happen (well, for me, anyway). Otherwise, you always go BPA.

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If you have your "X" player of the future why draft the same position and/or skillset? That's some David Kahn type logic. If two prospects are close to me that is close enough to a tie. Think if two prospects are close both will have people in the front office that leans toward either prospect(much like we are with Smart and Burke right now). How can you develop two really good young players who want to do the same thing?

You should never forget fit is important in the league. Unless a guys becomes a superstar the system he's in greatly affects whether he reaches his true potential.

The pre draft workouts should be great. Between these two, Bazz, McLemore, Noel and Len. Fun times ahead.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

Defense is 75% about effort. Carmelo has looked like a lock down defender at times in this league.

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Then why is Vasquez such a terrible defender? I think it's a lot less about effort than people say. I think it has a lot to do with athleticism length and fundamentals. Really, I think being a great defender has more to do with measurables than a great offensive player.
Look at the great defenders in the league today:
Dwight Howard- Pulses with athleticism. 7'4.5" Wingspan. 6'9" tall
Joshn Smith- one of the best athletes in the league.
LeBron- Nuff said; 7' Wingspan GREAT Athlete
Tony Allen- Good athlete , 6'9" Wingspace for a 6'4" player.
Larry Sanders-7'6" Wingspan,
Anthony Davis-7'5.5" Wingspan
Pippen- 7'2" Wingspan(wow)


I guess what i'm saying in all this, is i think effort is a big piece to defense in getting back and getting to your rotations, but the elite defenders give much much more than just effort.

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Originally Posted by BallSoHard

Then why is Vasquez such a terrible defender? I think it's a lot less about effort than people say. I think it has a lot to do with athleticism length and fundamentals. Really, I think being a great defender has more to do with measurables than a great offensive player.
Look at the great defenders in the league today:
Dwight Howard- Pulses with athleticism. 7'4.5" Wingspan. 6'9" tall
Joshn Smith- one of the best athletes in the league.
LeBron- Nuff said; 7' Wingspan GREAT Athlete
Tony Allen- Good athlete , 6'9" Wingspace for a 6'4" player.
Larry Sanders-7'6" Wingspan,
Anthony Davis-7'5.5" Wingspan
Pippen- 7'2" Wingspan(wow)


I guess what i'm saying in all this, is i think effort is a big piece to defense in getting back and getting to your rotations, but the elite defenders give much much more than just effort.

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I wasn't trying to negate the importance of physical ability. However I could rattle off a list of players that are great athletes that are also long, but are horrendous defenders. Those guys on your list are there because they aren't just physically gift they're commit to that end of the court. LeBron may be your prime example, but he was a suspect defender early on in his career. It wasn't until guys like him, Chris Paul, Dwayne Wade, and other went to the Olympics did those guys come back committed to defense.

So to answer your question GV is bad because he's slow. He is quite possibly the slowest lead guard in the NBA. Of course being physically inept at a skill will make you poor at said skill.

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

say we get lucky in the lottery and get the 2nd overall pick and smart and burke are on the board. Now do u see the point?

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Take Smart, it's the smart thing to do.

(I probably lost support by using a pun.)

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Originally Posted by BallSoHard

Then why is Vasquez such a terrible defender? I think it's a lot less about effort than people say. I think it has a lot to do with athleticism length and fundamentals. Really, I think being a great defender has more to do with measurables than a great offensive player.
Look at the great defenders in the league today:
Dwight Howard- Pulses with athleticism. 7'4.5" Wingspan. 6'9" tall
Joshn Smith- one of the best athletes in the league.
LeBron- Nuff said; 7' Wingspan GREAT Athlete
Tony Allen- Good athlete , 6'9" Wingspace for a 6'4" player.
Larry Sanders-7'6" Wingspan,
Anthony Davis-7'5.5" Wingspan
Pippen- 7'2" Wingspan(wow)


I guess what i'm saying in all this, is i think effort is a big piece to defense in getting back and getting to your rotations, but the elite defenders give much much more than just effort.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

I wasn't trying to negate the importance of physical ability. However I could rattle of a list of players that are great athletes that are also long, but are horrendous defenders. Those guys on your list are there because they aren't just physically gift they're commit to that end of the court. LeBron may be your prime example, but he was a suspect defender early on in his career. It wasn't until guys like him, Chris Paul, Dwayne Wade, and other went to the Olympics did those guys come back committed to defense.

So to answer your question GV is bad because he's slow. He is quite possibly the slowest lead guard in the NBA. Of course being physically inept at a skill will make you poor at said skill.

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I'm only arguing that it's almost as much about effort as it is meaureables which I think we're saying the same thing. I agree with defense being 75% effort for players with measureables for sure.

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Originally Posted by Nola Hornet

Like you said earlier in a couple of your posts. BPA. Burke wouldn't be BPA at 2.

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That's totally subjective. There are no absolutes when talking about drafts.

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Originally Posted by NOLa.

Take Smart, it's the smart thing to do.

(I probably lost support by using a pun.)

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You gained a little bit with me :hihi:

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

If you have your "X" player of the future why draft the same position and/or skillset? That's some David Kahn type logic. If two prospects are close to me that is close enough to a tie. Think if two prospects are close both will have people in the front office that leans toward either prospect(much like we are with Smart and Burke right now). How can you develop two really good young players who want to do the same thing?

You should never forget fit is important in the league. Unless a guys becomes a superstar the system he's in greatly affects whether he reaches his true potential.

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If you have your Sg of the future you take Burke, a pure Pg, if you have the time to let him develop. If you have a Pg though, you can still take Smart, Smart played Sg his entire life until Ok. St. converted him into a PG, there would be no problem moving him to the 2 where he's probably better suited.

So really, Rivers should no be the reason to not draft one or the other. Austin is a combo guard, he could play with either one. But honestly i think we're not on a time table that would allow us to take Burke, Pg is a need, and one we need impact at now, a player that can compliment our current core of players.

Burke isn't CP3, he's not going to come in and make us a fringe playoff team. Burke will set us back a few years while he develops.

We're on a Antony Davis time line, and he's on a different level of development, i think in year 3 he'll be the best Pf in the the league. So anybody we take or sign, and this is just my opinion, has to compliment and be ready for AD's year 3, i don't think Burke in his 2nd year will be ready.

Smart would be Gordon's replacement, but i would rather have Gordon. If we have a chance, i want McLemore with this current team. Sign the young vet Pg that's taken his lumps already, but still has room to learn and grow, a Pg that will be ready after a year or two with Monty.

Monty will not hand over the keys to his car to a rookie Pg with what we've seen and know about him, for all the flashes of greatness you might see, we will still be a high lottery team for the next 2 years, at least. I don't think Dell or Monty could handle that.

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Originally Posted by NemesisKING

If you have your Sg of the future you take Burke, a pure Pg, if you have the time to let him develop. If you have a Pg though, you can still take Smart, Smart played Sg his entire life until Ok. St. converted him into a PG, there would be no problem moving him to the 2 where he's probably better suited.

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I agree with this. Which is why I said Burke in my PG of the future example and not Smart.

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So really, Rivers should no be the reason to not draft one or the other. Austin is a combo guard, he could play with either one. But honestly i think we're not on a time table that would allow us to take Burke, Pg is a need, and one we need impact at now, a player that can compliment our current core of players.

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Not sure how quickly Trey will progress or not. I think he's a first year starter. Like some have made the comparison I see no reason why he can't have a rookie campaign similar to Damian Lillard. So I disagree that Burke will take long if any time to improve the lead guard position.

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Burke isn't CP3, he's not going to come in and make us a fringe playoff team. Burke will set us back a few years while he develops.

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I don't project he'll be as good as Paul was as a rookie(or ever for that matter). However I do disagree that he isn't capable of giving us more than Vasquez did this year. Again I see no reason why Burke wouldn't be a significant upgrade over our PG situation next season.

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We're on a Antony Davis time line, and he's on a different level of development, i think in year 3 he'll be the best Pf in the the league. So anybody we take or sign, and this is just my opinion, has to compliment and be ready for AD's year 3, i don't think Burke in his 2nd year will be ready.

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It's well documented I don't have the same faith in Davis' long term potential as most. But whether he becomes the best at his position or not if it takes him 2 or 3 more years even if Burke takes 2 or so years how is this not matching up with Davis' growth time table? If Davis is a max player before his rookie deal is up he will re-up with this team. He won't risk another season or two unprotected no player does. Even on the off chance that he does he'll be a RFA which means we can match any deal(which is one of the many reason I'd rather build teams via the draft). So we'll have at least this contract and the next with Davis. Time is not an issue in that regard.

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Smart would be Gordon's replacement, but i would rather have Gordon. If we have a chance, i want McLemore with this current team. Sign the young vet Pg that's taken his lumps already, but still has room to learn and grow, a Pg that will be ready after a year or two with Monty.

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Smart seems to lack the pure scorer instincts and ability to play Gordon's role. Couple that with the fact he's not a great shooter and this is why I don't love Smart. If he can't form into a PG than he's becomes just an average player. I'm thinking Tyreke Evans or Rodney Stuckey.

Not Sure McLemore will be available.

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Monty will not hand over the keys to his car to a rookie Pg with what we've seen and know about him, for all the flashes of greatness you might see, we will still be a high lottery team for the next 2 years, at least. I don't think Dell or Monty could handle that.

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Can't really say what Monty will or won't do. He hasn't been a head coach that long. He started Davis despite not having an NBA body. I don't see the evidence that would suggest that Williams wouldn't start Trey if he's drafted. Which begs the question do you think Rivers/Smart or any legit FA targets will develop into the answer at PG before(with Rivers and Smart) or better than(with FA signing) than Burke?

If you look at this crop of draftees I would have Trey among the most NBA ready of the bunch. There's going to be growing pains and learning curves, but he just carried a team all season to the championship game. He isn't a one and done player, he's very mature, very smart, proven winner, fundamentally sound, has every tool/skill a PG can have, and he takes care of the ball. Not sure why so seem to think he's maturation would take multiple years.

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Originally Posted by Purple Haze

That's totally subjective. There are no absolutes when talking about drafts.

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Like Anthony Davis or Lebron? Right.

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Originally Posted by Inner_GI

How can you say Burke is the better player when he hasn't played an NBA game yet? That's just silly.

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No one is talking about NBA. You can only based that one what you have seen at the collegiate level. Burke is better NOW.

This thread is Burke vs Bledsoe.

Bledsoe looks to be right on verge of being a really good starting pg.

Burke hasn't played yet.

Bledsoe would cost us some
Burke will be there at our pick.

I would much rather Bledsoe.

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Originally Posted by Shelbywmccarty

This thread is Burke vs Bledsoe.

Bledsoe looks to be right on verge of being a really good starting pg.

Burke hasn't played yet.

Bledsoe would cost us some
Burke will be there at our pick.

I would much rather Bledsoe.

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In a perfect world, we'd all prefer to go the up and coming route but acquiring Bledsoe will cost an arm. Then you have to give him a long term contract for a guy who has yet to prove that he can be the guy and has yet to play consistent minutes. That's a scary proposition.

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Originally Posted by Nola Hornet

No one is talking about NBA. You can only based that one what you have seen at the collegiate level. Burke is better NOW.

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NOW would indicate you've seen Burke play against NBA competition.

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Originally Posted by Inner_GI

NOW would indicate you've seen Burke play against NBA competition.

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Don't get this twisted. They've never played in the NBA to make that kind of assumption. Your comment is as bizarre as it gets.

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Originally Posted by Shelbywmccarty

This thread is Burke vs Bledsoe.

Bledsoe looks to be right on verge of being a really good starting pg.

Burke hasn't played yet.

Bledsoe would cost us some
Burke will be there at our pick.

I would much rather Bledsoe.

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Sorry, I changed the topic to Burke vs Smart. I'd prefer Burke over Bledsoe. I'd prefer Smart over Burke.
We'll see how it shakes out.

Bledsoe might be attractive, but seriously, go look at him once he starts playing 30+ mpg. He doesn't play as well as he does when getting 20-29 min a game. The logical thing (if you were to sign him) would be keep him playing 25 mpg, and let GV or Rivers get 20-23 mpg,but people will want Bledsoe getting 30+ and will be disappointed either way.

I'd rather Burke > Bledsoe personally but i still think Rivers is our future PG and we will draft porter or oladipo and have a rivers gordon porter/oladipo back court.

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Originally Posted by Nola Hornet

Don't get this twisted. They've never played in the NBA to make that kind of assumption. Your comment is as bizarre as it gets.

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Burke hasn't played in the league. That's why I'm saying Bledsoe is better. You don't know what you will get from Burke "Right Now." I picked Burke in this poll because in 2 years he could be great and better than Bledsoe.

When you said now, I thought you meant if I had to a win a game tomorrow in the NBA who would be on my team. Bledsoe over Burke in that situation.

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Originally Posted by UNO Gracias

Bledsoe might be attractive, but seriously, go look at him once he starts playing 30+ mpg. He doesn't play as well as he does when getting 20-29 min a game. The logical thing (if you were to sign him) would be keep him playing 25 mpg, and let GV or Rivers get 20-23 mpg,but people will want Bledsoe getting 30+ and will be disappointed either way.

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Davis played like crap getting close to 30 minutes a game this season (until recently). Just because his stats going over 30 minutes for the first time in career are not great, I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that Bledsoe is stuck at a 20-25 minute guy like Jason Smith.

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Originally Posted by Inner_GI

Burke hasn't played in the league. That's why I'm saying Bledsoe is better. You don't know what you will get from Burke "Right Now." I picked Burke in this poll because in 2 years he could be great and better than Bledsoe.

When you said now, I thought you meant if I had to a win a game tomorrow in the NBA who would be on my team. Bledsoe over Burke in that situation.

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You must have been confused. There was a slight derailment in the thread that went into smart vs burke.

Plus Bledsoe plays a lot of minutes against back ups. Its easy to look good against Andre Miller and the likes.

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Originally Posted by Nola Hornet

You must have been confused. There was a slight derailment in the thread that went into smart vs burke.

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Probably so. Following from work, I miss a few posts here and there.

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Originally Posted by Inner_GI

Davis played like crap getting close to 30 minutes a game this season (until recently). Just because his stats going over 30 minutes for the first time in career are not great, I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that Bledsoe is stuck at a 20-25 minute guy like Jason Smith.

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Yeah but Davis is a rookie, while Bledsoe is somebody you are thinking about paying big money to be a veteran cornerstone on your roster.

You can always put up solid numbers against backups. Even when Bledsoe started, his first few games he was red hot, but the last 3 games he cooled down, and was very avg.

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

I'd rather Burke > Bledsoe personally but i still think Rivers is our future PG and we will draft porter or oladipo and have a rivers gordon porter/oladipo back court.

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Ditto, my friend.

And prayers out to the victims and families of the Boston explosions, just senseless.

Burke...it's not even close!
although if i had a choice i would pick porter.

Not convinced if Bledsoe could ever be a quality starter in this league so I would go with Burke since he's easier to obtain with a draft pick.

Davis is going to be a monster in the P&R. It's safe to say that you'd want a strong P&R PG to pair up with Davis for the next 10+ years. Can Bledsoe be that guy? I have my doubts.

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Originally Posted by Nola Hornet

Davis is going to be a monster in the P&R. It's safe to say that you'd want a strong P&R PG to pair up with Davis for the next 10+ years. Can Bledsoe be that guy? I have my doubts.

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Is Burke or Smart strong P&R guy's?

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Originally Posted by Nola Hornet

Davis is going to be a monster in the P&R. It's safe to say that you'd want a strong P&R PG to pair up with Davis for the next 10+ years. Can Bledsoe be that guy? I have my doubts.

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Well, we know Burke can be that guy...