Just letting him walk is the most disastrous thing this team could do. like i said earlier, the season where you just let him walk for nothing will be the season we have a team that will get 4 wins.Quote:
Originally Posted by CP3forMVP
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Just letting him walk is the most disastrous thing this team could do. like i said earlier, the season where you just let him walk for nothing will be the season we have a team that will get 4 wins.Quote:
Originally Posted by CP3forMVP
All major assumptions. 75% - pull a # out of the air with no knowledge of the true facts (that none of us are privy to).Quote:
Originally Posted by Alg_Hornet
When did Collison prove he is more than capable of running the show? He had a nice stretch (one in which we did not win a lot) but has not even proven it over a season and has shown issues with decision making and turnovers. All of that is correctable, but are you willing to give up a top 5 NBA player based on the little we have seen?
NJ has flat out said they are not trading Lopez and nowhere other than the fantasy trades on this board has an offer to take on Okafor been mentioned. It was Harris and #3 for Paul, which is a joke IMO.
Exactly. This team IS done in New Orleans if he walks for nothing. Chouest or not, that is as incomptent as it gets. The franchise will still have a great shot at sucess if they can get major value and the pieces to a good young core.Quote:
Originally Posted by crazed2apoint
We're not just risking keeping him if we stand pat, we're risking the future of the franchise in New Orleans. That isn't the case if we can get a good offer and field a solid team.
I speculate/assume/believe/think that we will sign lebron for the mle.
Now if we only talk about that non stop maybe it will be fact on this board one day.
i wouldnt say great shot. The players we would be trading for couldnt lead their team to win more then 20 games. I would say we might have a chance.Quote:
Originally Posted by NIH
Lopez wouldn't necessarily be our leader. That's the only player from NJ I'm talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by chubbs91
I disagree with this. Teams win ball games, individual players do not. Just because the Hornets aren't the best team in the league doesn't mean CP's any less of a player. Kobe and Lebron are obviously 1 and 2. Who follows?Quote:
Originally Posted by NIH
Dwayne Wade/DwightQuote:
Originally Posted by CP3forMVP
With so few players, basketball players are held to a different standard for sucess than a football player or baseball player.
I more so meant that I'm not trading CP just because you think he may walk. I'm taking a chance, I'm throwing all my cards on the table. If I'm gonna go down, I'm going down swinging. It's no question that one of the reasons this is such a big story is because so many believe he will walk away from this team.Quote:
Originally Posted by crazed2apoint
in regards to the lockout statement is it coincidence that amare, lebron, wade, and bosh will all opt out this year instead of signing extensions? getting the best contract now instead of waiting for a new collective bargaining agreement? ita a gamble. they would/should know how the negotiations are going being that they have a players union to brief them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saints Fan in A
See, now your kind of going back on what you said. Dwayne Wade? What has he won since that Championship with Shaq? The Championship is in the past, and since then he hasn't even won a playoff series. You can have all the winning seasons you want, but if you don't win in the playoffs I'm not impressed. He's in the same position as CP, as far as I'm concerned.Quote:
Originally Posted by NIH
Can we agree that CP is a top 5 player?
It's a bit unfair to downplay a championship.....But I agree that CP is a top 5 player hands down despite the point guards in the league really stepping up this year.
I value Wade more because he is a two, good PGs are a dime a dozen and they historically don't have that much sucess title wise as the lead player.Quote:
Originally Posted by CP3forMVP
top 5 yes
Im not downplaying it, just bring up the fact that it's in the past. The Heat haven't done anything since winning it with Shaq, and I seriously doubt Wade is even recognizing that championship in his decision to stay or go.Quote:
Originally Posted by shanetrain93
To be fair, I have a hard time calling Wade a two. I know that's what he's listed at, but he's the one who handles the ball on that team. He's the one that brings it upcourt and runs the offense. If you watch the Heat on a regular basis you can't even argue that. You rarely see the Heats PG's (Arroyo, Chalmers, Alston) play the point guard roll.Quote:
Originally Posted by NIH
Personally, I'd say it's a wash at 3 between Wade and CP.
So I guess we're going to call LeBron a point guard now as well? Primarily ball handler or not there comes different skill sets and physical attributes with each position.Quote:
Originally Posted by CP3forMVP
PG is the least important position on the court. Which is why we even with the best PG we're still a very bad team.Quote:
Originally Posted by crazed2apoint
I agree with the overall tone of your thread though aside from that one difference of opinion.
take a chill pill broQuote:
Originally Posted by chubbs91
cool glad you read the whole thread, broQuote:
Originally Posted by jmaninc68
Chris Paul has pretty much done everything he can for the franchise... and the franchise has pretty much done everything it can for Chris Paul. Let's hope new ownership can translate into something that can let us get to some kind of rebuilding platform.
Sure there is, but it still doesn't change the fact that Wade plays much like a scoring PG. Lebron on the other hand, doesn't handle the ball nearly as much as DWade does. Not saying he doesn't handle it ever, but DWade handles it EVERY position. He is the Heats PG.Quote:
Originally Posted by NIH
Any credibility is gone after that statement. Do you watch the NBA?Quote:
Originally Posted by Oysterman
CP hasn't sniffed being a top 5 player since December 2008.Quote:
Originally Posted by shanetrain93
And last season Williams, Rondo, Rose, and Nash all had better seasons than CP3 even if you forgive him for his multitude of injuries and the fact that Collison gave the team a spark that CP3 never did, and that the Hornets only quit on the season when CP3 returned from his injury.
Yes. The Lakers just won a title without a true PG. That can't happen with any other position on the court. The Spurs won a bunch of titles without a traditional PG. Ditto for the Heat.Quote:
Originally Posted by HORNETSFAN
CP3 is the "best PG in the world" according to most of you but he can't even lift us from mediocre to good. We had a true rookie fill in for him half of this past season and if you had switched jerseys between Collison and Paul you wouldn't have been able to say who was more productive than who.
It hasn't always been like that, white chocolate was primarily the ball handler in 2006.Quote:
Originally Posted by CP3forMVP
That's like saying Tom Brady hasn't sniffed being a top QB when only looking at the season he missed with injury. Collison gave the Hornets a spark that CP3 never did? Either you are a relative of Collison's or someone who does not follow the game very closely. Get realistic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oysterman
Anyone who follows the game would have seen pretty easily based on some of the decisions that were made and the turnover rate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oysterman
12-25 as a starter. Hooray for sparks! :rolleyes:
Quote:
But like most teams, the Knicks can't give the Hornets anything close to equal value for Paul, who missed 25 games last season after tearing cartilage in his left knee. That prevented him from making the All-NBA team for the third straight season. He has two years left on his deal, at around $30 million.
Although Darren Collison played well in Paul's absence, the Hornets lost 17 of 25 games, underscoring Paul's importance to the team.
All I have to do is look at this thread and I'll immediately find the reason why I don't post here often. Trade Chris Paul, because some people THINK he will be gone in 2 years. As much as I dislike Bower, I'm happy he's the GM instead of some of the members on this site.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 504fan
Yes, if only if we were true fans who posted good things about a great org. :cool:
Big news being reported by WWL.
Another fabricated headline they can come up with is that Chouest won't promise to keep Hornets in Louisiana...
Or how about this, I can't guarantee your next breath.
Nothing is forever.
This whole situation reeks of insanity and a naive market (media and fans). THIS is NORMAL for this time of year. It's NORMAL for a player in Chris' position (soon to be expiring contract) who is stuck on a team thats not going to be competing anytime soon.
Fans and media really need to check themselves. All of this talk doesn't mean that Chris is going to be traded....and it doesn't mean he won't. This is the NBA people....this stuff happens all of the time....especially before the draft and free agency. The Hornets/Chris situaiton isn't a secret to anyone.....all parties (Hornets, Chris and other NBA teams) understand the challenges and likelihoods.
Anyone not willing to consider the topic of trading Chris has their heads in the sand. You can't say NO WAY and ignore the advances of other teams. And if you aren't hearing from other teams, you should be calling them. This is a business...and you MUST discuss and consider ANYTHING...if it means bettering your organization in the long term.
Chris leaving/being traded is a topic we have brought up here for the past year plus...heck we brought it up when he chose a shorter extension. Why did he choose the shorter extentsion? Because he wanted to see if the organization could get him to where he wants to be. They didn't. Should he trust them again? After all, same GM...and now a rookie/unproven coach.
yea guys..remember amare to golden state as supposed to be a done deal around draft day last yr?? its all talk
The only thing that is bothering me about all of this CP/trade drama is the fact that it's being reported as a money deal. Once again we are in the position of having to trade someone because of monetary problems here.
Is it true? Probably not, but that's the Hornets rep ... any and all deals are made for one and only reason: money. It's miserable. If any Hornets people are reading this, does it upset you as well? Do you ever get tired of reading how poor our franchise is, how it's barely able to survive?
True or not, it's pretty much common knowledge.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Hornets fired Byron Scott on November 13th. CP fell with an injury that same day. When he returned, and before his other injury that forced him to miss all that time, the Hornets went 18-10 (64%) including 11-5 in the month of January. When CP is healthy, this team is atleast competitive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oysterman
Here's a fun fact. This team won 37 games last year, 22 of those came when CP was in uniform. That means only 15 of the wins came without CP. He played in 45 of the 82, leaving 37 games he DIDN'T play in. If we only won 15 of the 37 games we played without him, what does that tell you? That we were 22-23 without him, but 15-22 without?
You completely missed the comment I was attempting to make. You could have did me and you a favor, and not respond to my post at all. But yes I'd rather wait until CP tell me himself that he want to be traded, before I even consider it. It don't have anything to do with me claiming to be a true fan so you could have saved that comment. It's totally about me not getting rid of the best player in New Orleans Hornets history, because I THINK he's going to walk at the end of his contract. If they are an organization worth me spending my hard earned money to buy season tickets, then I would hope they try their best to put a team around him and keep him.Quote:
Originally Posted by NIH
How do you know he hasn't told them already?Quote:
Originally Posted by 504fan
You see....Chris isn't the type of guy to get into a messy media driven fued with a team. If he comes to you openly, honestly and willing to help facilitate a deal...while helping you with damage control...what do you do?
I don't know if Chris has demanded a trade or not, but I do know his eyes are open to other sitautions...which usually leads to leaving.
Harvey you usually know these things better then most, Chris Paul is obviously being shopped or offers are being listened to but what are the chances we trade him this offseason?Quote:
Originally Posted by Harvey Hornet
You said the magic words, I don't know and neither do the majority of the members on this site. So I'm definitely not gung ho about trading him. I'm sure a lot of players eyes are open to other situations, but that don't mean all of them will leave. It's the organization job to attempt to keep him. Yes they have been known to screw up in the past, but excuse me from wanting to remain positive. Especially since I know there's going to be a possible ownership change.Quote:
Originally Posted by Harvey Hornet
I don't think most people on this site are, they just see his trade value peaking before our eyes and the opportunity to actually get fair to more than fair value in return.Quote:
Originally Posted by 504fan
No one knows what Chris will do in 2 years including Chris. CBA, Monty and Chouest are all massive wild cards that make it too hard to predict. Can the Hornets be a contender in 2 years? There is no margin for error, but I think they can rebuild around Paul, DC, Thornton and West if they spend some money to get more talent in.
I'd also like to point out that Collison posted better numbers than Paul did as a rookie. Will he be a better player? No, but he could develop into an all-star point guard. Saying turnovers or decision making will limit him from developing is like critics in 2006 saying Paul would never become great without a jump shot or a lot more bulk.
I have been reading some of your posts and forgive me because I havent read every single one. I am not sure if someone else made this point. But this is my feeling. CP3 is no ordinary player. This isnt Baron Davis, Glen Rice, this isnt ZO even. This is a potential legend. This is a Stockton, a Isaiah, a future hall of famer. And I think maybe a small degree we have forgotten how great this guy is because he barely played this year. This guy is probably in the top 10 of players in this league overall. Now we wouldnt be having this conversation if ownership had not put themselves in this horrible position. Nobody else was going to give Peja, Posey, or Peterson what we gave. Its funny that we are going to have a lot of cap room when guys who could help CP3 are all on new teams with new contracts. And it would be a lockout year potentially. Whats the solution. I dont know. You guys are smarter than me. I just want this team to keep CP3, West, Collison, Thornton, and try to do what they can to move as many of black sheep pieces as we can.
here are some possible reasons to trade CP3, all are my OPINION not based on fact:
1) the likelihood of him re-signing is very low, the Hornets know it. If they wait it out with fingers crossed, they could end up like Cleveland or Toronto, hoping the star player either re-signs or gives them a sign and trade opportunity.
2) that injury from last year is worse than they've let on. sure, he might be able to play next year, but what about the year after? what if he's not as good this coming year? then what? Andrews REMOVED the meniscus.
3) we have TWO starting PGs. getting rid of one to add pieces that could make us a playoff team (because we're not one right now) would be great. which one is cheaper and by keeping him allows you to get more pieces? Not CP3.
I would not move CP3 first, but a godfather deal I would listen to, and so should the Hornets.
Ricky Green is to Chris Paul as John Stockton is to Darren Collison?
It has everything to do with the deal. ANY player is available for the right price. You are basically asking me what are the chances of someone giving us full value (and then some for Paul). I really can't answer that. But if someone were to step up with a deal that makes sense, I'd say the chances were strong. Right now my gut feeling is that we aren't discussing or fielding offers that are causing us to consider making a deal...but thats par for the course. This is the beginning of the process (off season roster management) and most people will come in low right now. Like I've said quite a few times, teams are testing us right now. But this is the NBA, and things can change quickly. All it takes is one team to fall in love with the idea of dealing for Paul and over paying.Quote:
Originally Posted by ryan2709
Kinda skewing comments? No one said that turnovers or decision making will limit him from developing. It was said to show that he is not an instant star as many want to assume. He did not even play a season and those were some of his issues he needs to work on. He did nothing to give me the confidence to dump a top 5 player for draft picks. It would have to be a super deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by NIH
Just for clarification, he did not remove the meniscus. He removed the torn piece (which is fairly common).Quote:
Originally Posted by DiMaggio dunks
Part or all of it, it's not a good situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by HORNETSFAN
Why are other teams bucking so hard for him then if he's obviously going to be a cripple from now on? I'm sure glad Dr. Andrews did a good job on Drew Brees and the Saints had faith in him. Yeah I know, different injuries but there is no need to jump the gun. Everyone's injury, surgery, and rehab is different.Quote:
Originally Posted by DiMaggio dunks
good night, i didn't say he's going to be a cripple. i'm not jumping the gun, i'm speculating on why the Hornets would trade him.Quote:
Originally Posted by HunnyB
Don't take it personal. Not particularly you but others here in other threads seem to insinuate he's damaged now.Quote:
Originally Posted by DiMaggio dunks