Green and Kuminga both going top 5 so that’s basically impossible
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Kuminga is going to be a star. Most players as long and athletic and fast as he is aren’t as strong as he is also, he can be a better Siakam honestly, but my worry is with his lack of a 3pt shot idk how j like him next to Zion.
Also what I was hearing was Green has looked very good in those 3 gleague games, even shooting a high percentage from 3 and the FT line. The kid has all the tools to be elite. I see some Donovan Mitchell in him
Also I don’t think we’ll have a chance to get him anyway because he’s going top 3.
Right now my big board goes
1. Cade
2. Mobley
3. Kuminga
4. Green
5. Suggs
6. Moody
Doesn't seem to be a unicorn Center in this draft, which makes me a bit less interested than I'd usually be in this draft.
Mobley is really, really, really good. Like, really good. In most drafts he'd be a fairly clear number 1. When you run down the list of college seasons where players put up comparable numbers to him, the list spits out names like Anthony Davis, Zion Williamson, and Karl Anthony Towns. Now, he's not better than those guys on these lists, he falls generally behind them, but those are the only sorts of names who are better. Which tells you a lot.
He's only had 2 games with less than 2 blocks all year.
Based on seeing the first few G League Ignite games start to come out, as well as watching some more games for the other guys, I think my current tier list is looking something like this:
Tier 1:
- Cade Cunningham
Tier 2:
Evan Mobley
Tier 3:
- Kuminga
- Suggs
- Jalen Springer
- Jalen Johnson
Tier 4:
- Jalen Green
- Moses Moody
- Daishen Nix
- Sharife Cooper
- Usman Garuba
- Scottie Barnes
Tier 5:
- Ziaire Williams
- Kai Jones
- Corey Kispert
- James Bouknight
- Jared Butler
- David Thompson
- JT Thor
- Sengun Alperen
- Bennedict Mathurin
- BJ Boston
- Bones Hyland
Tier 6:
- Roko Prcakin
- Deuce McBride
- Day'Ron Sharpe
- David Duke Jr
- Santi Aldama
Something like that. That's basically an entire first round worth of names at this point, still more to go.
I wonder how much muscle Mobley can add. If he ever get totally jacked he could be David Robinson 2.0. From a strictly body and athleticism perspective. The Admiral was one of the best athletes above 7’ I’d ever seen until Giannis.
I think he's a different type of athlete. For all that Robinson was absolutely jacked to the gills and ridiculously strong, I don't think he was actually the elite mover (particularly laterally) that he seems to be remembered as. He was good, don't get me wrong, but he was far more impressive as a straightline/jump-speed guy than a lateral mover. Mobley isn't like that, really. He's strong, but not monstrously so, but his fluidity of motion is his real strength.
Giannis is more like Robinson than Mobley is, imo. Similar straight line speed and burst, with similar limitations laterally.
Again, just to clarify, that's not to claim Robinson or Giannis are immobile stiffs. They absolutely are/were not. We're talking about fairly small degrees of difference here.
All true. Just it’s I don’t recall who else has been this fluid and quick at that height. And he’s not even running flat out. Robonson’s game was very different. Old school paint dominant only. With touch out to like 10 or 15 feet.
I know it's kind of the cliche at the moment but he's a bit like AD as a mover. I mean AD when he was a few years into the league and was running DPOY campaigns, not rookie AD who still had some movement skills to work out.
On the flipside of that, he doesn't quite have AD's preternatural sense for things, but then, who did at college? There's a reason college AD was being lauded as potentially the best defender in basketball since Bill Russell.
Cade just finishing up playing the 5 in a series of possessions where he guards 6'11 George Conditt despite being a 6'7 PG.
Normal things.
Cade Cunningham, folks pic.twitter.com/5ymv2voOJ4
— Will Morris (@w_a_morris) February 17, 2021
21 second long clip. In this, Cade:
1) Accurately mirrors his assignment
2) Rotates early to cover the shooter
3) Recovers in time to tag
4) Tracks the pass and intercepts for the steal
5) Takes it full-court
6) Behind the back dribble to lose his man and create space
7) Pull-up jumper drops in easy
2 way prospect
I think Cade will be awesome on offense but bad on defense. He just looks a step slow and it’ll be worse in the nba. Before y’all go crazy I think he could be like Doncic but a little better defensively which would be awesome.
I think he's going to be a very good defender, though probably a step under 'great'. He's a brilliant college defender, and not because he's just dominant physically or anything but just because he knows where to be all the time and constantly reads the floor, acting before plays develop rather than reacting to consequences. That kind of play tends to translate over relatively problem-free.
Or at least, it did when it was Brandon Clarke, and then again when it was Xavier Tillman, just to pick examples from recent drafts.
Nobody in the NBA is slower than Kyle Anderson, and yet he manages to be a solid defender every year without all of the genius floor-reading that someone like Cade has, so I buy the defense for Cade.
He will be a stud regardless of whether he is a top defender. Whoever gets #1 will run that pick to the podium.
Cade just dropped 40/11 on 57% from the field, 38% from 3, 92.8% from the line (13/14) against a top team on the road.
Against a top 10 team.
Could you imagine if we won the lottery and got Cade lol
I've said it before in this thread but Cade + Zion = a decade of dominance, without much question, in my mind. No team with a competent FO would trade the pick if they got #1, but if for some reason they had a brain-lapse and did it, I would be willing to throw an unruly number of assets to get it.
Cade would be the clear #1 in most drafts (including this one) even if all he was was a 6'8 elite self-creator, shooter and 1v1 defender. The fact that he's all of that plus one of the best passers in the world and also a brilliant on-court communicator and has ice in his veins as a clutch time player, and also plays great team D?
I've said before that this generation of players will be defined by Luka, Zion, and Cade in the same way that this last generation has been Lebron, KD, and Curry, and frankly I still haven't shifted from that much. The only thing I would add is that Paolo Banchero in 2022 is looking to try and make an argument as the #4 (we might call them the D Wade equivalent, I guess) of the group.
We’re gonna finish way too good to have a shot at Cade. If not, the universe is in love with us.
I'm pretty comfortable with Mobley and Green being highest lottery pick ceiling at best. 1-3 seems pretty impossible. Feels like you can trade up to atleast 5th if you really wanted too.
I see Mobley falling just a little bit while being my 2nd favorite because the NBA is really a guard league.
If you really want Mobley... You should be able to get him.
I mean, I literally said that nobody is likely to trade it in the very post you are quote tweeting, and implied they would have to have a complete brain failure to do so, so yeah I agree.
That said, who knows, maybe you can trade up to #3 and we'll have a repeat of the Luka draft where the top drafting teams are run by idiots.
Corey Kispert subs out in The Kennel one last time. One of the most well respected Zags in school history, and one of the most successful as well. pic.twitter.com/z8qAJo6tlZ
— Brenna Greene (@BrennaGreene_) February 28, 2021
One of the winningest players in NCAA history. Still my pick for us if we end up outside of that top top echelon of guys. Career 92% winning percentage, 119 wins in 129 games.
Finishes season averaging 20/5/2 on 55/46/89 splits, overall at 70.2% TS.
The more I think about it the more I think we need a post player than a big. Zion is the future creator with BI and Kira. Mobley would be a perfect fit x100
So, you're telling me Houston will draft Mobley over a potential franchise Guard... Press X to doubt. That's not their MO.
Top 3 is...
Minn
Detroit
Houston
I'll guarantee that if this remains unchanged... Mobley will fall to 4th. Then... Who is 4th and 5th... Cleveland and Orlando. Teams also not on the market for a big. It would take a huge lottery shack up to get Mobley in the top 3.
SAC
OKC
WAS
NOP
Look like 100% locks to draft Mobley if he falls
First off we have no idea who will pick top 3, second off, guard or big you always draft BPA unless you have lebron or Luka and they play the same position.
Houston isn’t gonna pass on Mobley because he isn’t a guard lol, that’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard
I’ll make a wager Mobley goes top 3. If he does you can’t post on here for a year, if he doesn’t then I won’t. Deal?
Actually we do have a good idea of who'll draft top 3 and top 5 with probability variences of those picks. It's really not hard to comprehend. Especially, if you look at historical data with how bigs with no 3pt shots are trending downward and even with Wiseman. GSW was trying hard to trade that pick. Houston being heavy analytics teams. They are gonna value a talent that make sense in the top 3. Their board won't force them to draft him, because it's crazy deep at higher valued positions unlike last year. They can get the best wing or top 3 guard at 3rd. They will. It's just how the league is now.
Nobody wants to be drafting Jahil Okafor or Greg Oden over a potential Devin Booker or Kevin Durant anymore. Shooting is king to a lot of teams now. This 100% why I believe Mobley will fall.
I really don't careeeeeeeeeeeee. Especially, for immature ban bets. I spent most of my days working in the hospital. All I wanna do is escape and talk basketball.
I ain't gonna beef anyone on this emotional dinosaur forum. You can have beef with the other 10 beefs on this board. If you right, you right. Why does it matter? That's like a whole 7+ months from draft day anyway. That's just silly.
I hope Mobley falls :)
I think he's good.
I wasn't trying to be rude, but overtly analytical because of I'm analytic gambler when I'm not constantly working in the hospital. So, it comes off rude. I zone in on some data and what talent can be possible for a fall in historical trends. Mobley is the hottest probability. So, I take that hot read and commit to it. Granted... This is read that's 7+ months early. So, things can considerably change. We still got March Madness, interview process, Leaks, and etc to come out. On the Littlest data that I have... Which is simply historical trends, talent pool, and league trends. Mobley has a considerable higher chance of falling than anyone of the consensus top 5. I also said a little falls. So, possibly one or just two spots at best.
We got a lot of time for things to change.
..:cheers:
The reality is that someone almost always falls. There's pretty much always somebody. So I wouldn't be surprised if Mobley drops a bit, though I would be quite shocked if he fell out of the top 5.
Brandon Clarke is the ultimate example: he went in the 20s in a draft where he was one of the 5 best players, and will likely have one of the 10 best careers. Several reasons why in his case, with a huge one being age - age is one of the common reasons that players drop.
Now, being a C isn't usually cause for that much of a drop in my view: in just the last 8 years, we've had Anthony Bennett, Joel Embiid, Karl Anthony-Towns, Jahlil Okafor, DeAndre Ayton, Marvin Bagley, and James Wiseman all go top three, and then another load of bigs like Dragan Bender and Jaren Jackson Jr go #4. So just being a C usually isn't enough to guarantee falling out of the top 5, but could it happen? Sure, it could.
I think I've finally caught up enough on Franz Wagner film, and have read enough writing on him now, to have an opinion. Hard to say exactly but I think I'd be comfortable with him anywhere in that 8-14 kind of range, at least right now.
Just for anyone who isn't familiar with him
-Sophomore
- 6'9'', 220lbs
- Raw Box score stats: 13/6/3 on 54/37/84 splits
- Advanced stats: +40.3 Net Rating, 2.6%STL, 3.2%BLK, 64.2% TS, +14.4 BPM, only about 19% Usage, slightly better than 2:1 AST:TO
Pros:
- High IQ and consistently good decision maker, even under pressure, whether on or off ball.
- Versatility in terms of role: he can play on ball, with a reasonable handle and passing acumen, or off ball equally well.
- Excellent team defender, almost always in the right place and uses his length to compensate for average strength. Great helper.
- Intense and stifling point of attack defender, with high end movement skills.
- Highly disciplined individual defender, able to play down on smaller guards without bailing out for steals or making super high risk plays
- Very young. Despite being a sophomore he doesn't turn 20 until after the draft.
- Projects fairly well as a shooter, taking more than 3 a game this year on improved efficiency, and has always been good from the line. Shoots off movement.
- Can run the PnR as ballhandler at 6'9, playing with patience, and actively reads defenses instead of just running set plays forever. 81st percentile PnR ballhandler.
- Solid finisher, though not spectacular.
- Live dribble passer on occasion.
Cons:
- Isn't really a pullup shooter at this point, being largely unimpressive in those circumstances.
- Not noteworthy for his physical strength, which means he can be prone to being overpowered here and there particularly by bigger guys
- Athleticism is okay but entirely mediocre, he doesn't project as some kind of explosive or otherwise impressive guy like that
- While his efficiency has increased from 3 this year, it is on lower volume. Not massively lower, but it's something to watch.
- On-ball skills are present but it's clear that he's not a high usage on ball NBA guy. This is more of an auxiliary skill to support his off-ball cutting/shooting and defense.
Good [new!] article to read from one of the hosts of Prep2Pro pod here on him, for some clips and more detail: http://jakeinthepaint.com/size-skill...has-the-juice/
So supposedly Kuminga has really been struggling the the Gleague but Jalen green has been just lightning it up. Move Green up to number 3 on my big board now just a hair behind Mobley, and Kuminga to 4
I suppose it depends what you mean by struggling. Kuminga's averaging 16/7/3 and while his efficiency has been very poor (largely a problem with processing, in my opinion: he tends to make the adjustment on drives a second too late, or miss the pass that would prevent a charge) he's actually been quite promising in terms of athleticism and defense.
I do agree that he's not really in the top 3, but then, I don't think I had him top 3 anyway. It's still Cade in Tier 1 on his own, then Mobley in Tier 2 on his own, and then Suggs at the top of Tier 3.
As of right now 3/4, what are you guys rankings in top 10 and where does Moses fit in as a overall talent and ceiling?
I have Moody in the 6-13 sort of range, anywhere in there would be good for him. He's a solid defender though unspectacular, has shown so much promise and progress as a shooter and scorer this year, he's a great size for a shooter of his calibre, and he's an alright passer as well (not great but he's not a black hole or anything, perfectly acceptable for a non playmaker prospect). If his shooting continues to progress and the defense makes fairly normal improvements he'll be very very good as an NBA wing.
My top ten is something probably like (and this is rough right now so don't hold me to this if I forget someone lmao, writing on my phone):
Cade
Mobley
Suggs
Springer
Green
Kuminga
Johnson
Moody
Cooper
Kispert
Jones
Barnes
Garuba
That's like my top dozen or so, not gonna go back and count them.