BI or Zion: Who do you want the Pelicans to trade for Scoot?

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Originally Posted by As I See It

Funny how all of a sudden we need a competent PG. Better late to the party than never attending, I guess,

LOL

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A lot of people including David Griffin thought CJ may have the potential to be a solid PG but that ship has sailed. No one is trading anything of value for CJ McCullum. We really didn’t trade anything of significant value.

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

Just regurgitating what Stein speculated from his "observer source." The end result will be nothing and we can try and hope for a solid prospect at 14 or a trade involving that pick.

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If nothing happens (Which, I think, we all know is the most likely outcome) then I'd be interested in seeing if we could move down from #14 to acquire Brooklyn's #21 and #22, if they're interested, depending on cost.

Gives us two shots at talent and I think (based on the mocks I'm seeing going around) there will still be good talent available.

Bleacher Report's mock from June 2nd has Jett Howard, dariq Whitehead, Brandin Podziemski, Kris Murray, and Brice Sensabaugh all available at those two slots. There's talent to be had.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

If nothing happens (Which, I think, we all know is the most likely outcome) then I'd be interested in seeing if we could move down from #14 to acquire Brooklyn's #21 and #22, if they're interested, depending on cost.

Gives us two shots at talent and I think (based on the mocks I'm seeing going around) there will still be good talent available.

Bleacher Report's mock from June 2nd has Jett Howard, dariq Whitehead, Brandin Podziemski, Kris Murray, and Brice Sensabaugh all available at those two slots. There's talent to be had.

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Would have to have other moves in mind if we did that. We really do not need two more developmental rookies on the roster (and not sure we have the roster spots, especially if we have any plans of bringing Liddell or Matkovic to the roster).

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

Would have to have other moves in mind if we did that. We really do not need two more developmental rookies on the roster (and not sure we have the roster spots, especially if we have any plans of bringing Liddell or Matkovic to the roster).

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Oh sure, I'm assuming that even if there's no Scoot trade, we're going to do something. Even if you decide that Zion and Ingram are the duo going forward, we still need to adjust our centre position, we could still benefit from shooting, and we're still going to need to budget for the Herb/Trey extensions.

If Griff and co stand pat this summer, I'll be pretty disappointed. Some stuff has to be shifted around, even if you think the top of the roster is set.

The best version of this Pelicans offense was with Zion as the primary ball handler initiating the offense. If the front office wants to bet on Zion being healthy, then I dont understand the logic for why we would want someone else to be the primary ball handler.

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Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth

The best version of this Pelicans offense was with Zion as the primary ball handler initiating the offense. If the front office wants to bet on Zion being healthy, then I dont understand the logic for why we would want someone else to be the primary ball handler.

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I think the idea with Scoot is that he can make it so that Zion isn't forced to play primary ball handler all the time, which increases injury risk. Plus, Scoot is an excellent PnR player, something we've lacked most of the time that Zion has made it on to the floor, so it gives us another way to use Zion without requiring him on ball.

The thing about Zion is that when you use him on-ball, he's generationally effective on offense.
If you use him off ball he's . . . also been generationally effective on offense.

The sample size is small - of course, because of massive injuries - but every single time he's stepped on the court the offense has improved. You can make talent like that work with Scoot, imo.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I think the idea with Scoot is that he can make it so that Zion isn't forced to play primary ball handler all the time, which increases injury risk. Plus, Scoot is an excellent PnR player, something we've lacked most of the time that Zion has made it on to the floor, so it gives us another way to use Zion without requiring him on ball.

The thing about Zion is that when you use him on-ball, he's generationally effective on offense.
If you use him off ball he's . . . also been generationally effective on offense.

The sample size is small - of course, because of massive injuries - but every single time he's stepped on the court the offense has improved. You can make talent like that work with Scoot, imo.

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It seemed to me like he was less assertive off ball, not afraid to stand around and watch, did not really demand the rock or move around a lot. With the ball in his hands, he was a PROBLEM. I think you either bet on him to be healthy and run it back, or trade him if you are confident Scoot is a future all star. Keeping Z and trading away BI makes the least sense of all 3 options to my layman perspective.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Oh sure, I'm assuming that even if there's no Scoot trade, we're going to do something. Even if you decide that Zion and Ingram are the duo going forward, we still need to adjust our centre position, we could still benefit from shooting, and we're still going to need to budget for the Herb/Trey extensions.

If Griff and co stand pat this summer, I'll be pretty disappointed. Some stuff has to be shifted around, even if you think the top of the roster is set.

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If they can get Lively at 14, I think that allows them to hold on to JV a little longer while he develops. He can play some backup minutes to support JV.

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Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth

It seemed to me like he was less assertive off ball, not afraid to stand around and watch, did not really demand the rock or move around a lot. With the ball in his hands, he was a PROBLEM. I think you either bet on him to be healthy and run it back, or trade him if you are confident Scoot is a future all star. Keeping Z and trading away BI makes the least sense of all 3 options to my layman perspective.

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The numbers don't lie, and Zion off ball worked in terms of team offense. Yeah, there's room for improvement, but the offense was still good and the points-per-possession on shots like using him as a roll man or on cuts were elite. I think you can make it work, especially if Trey is the shooter you think he is (he is, btw).

At the end of the day, talent wins out. You can have all the ''fit'' in the world but if you don't have that MVP calibre player you're not winning a chip.

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

If they can get Lively at 14, I think that allows them to hold on to JV a little longer while he develops. He can play some backup minutes to support JV.

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I think Lively at 14 would be a massive overdraft and I would consider it a horrible use of asset by Griff.

Lively's going to be fine, but his one outlier skill is rim protection. Admittedly, we need rim protection, but if you're picking a guy in the lottery you better not be picking him for fit when that same fit is regularly available in FA or on the trade market for the minimum.

if we trade zion then our next move should be trying to get KAT....

No actual source here but

#Sources ? Zion Williamson and his camp reportedly prefer a change of scenery, specifically in New York. Pelicans will field trade calls through the NBA Draft, Thursday, June 22. #NBA

— NBATradeReport (@NBATradeReport) June 14, 2023

Its starting to seem real enough that now I am wondering what the trade would look like besides the pick.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Admittedly, we need rim protection

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Oh boy, just imagine the rim protection if the Pels played Zion as a small-ball 5. :D

To play Zion at the 4 though, you need a floor-spacing Center... who can protect the rim... and switch on defense at the perimeter. Good luck finding one of those! :D

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Originally Posted by LAL1947

Oh boy, just imagine the rim protection if the Pels played Zion as a small-ball 5. :D

To play Zion at the 4 though, you need a floor-spacing Center... who can protect the rim... and switch on defense at the perimeter. Good luck finding one of those! :D

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And rebounding. Our rebounding was a major Achilles heel without JV, enough to cost games.

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Originally Posted by LAL1947

Oh boy, just imagine the rim protection if the Pels played Zion as a small-ball 5. :D

To play Zion at the 4 though, you need a floor-spacing Center... who can protect the rim... and switch on defense at the perimeter. Good luck finding one of those! :D

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We played Zion at the 4 this season, with JV as a centre, and were a top 5 offense and defense before he went down :hihi:

Turns out you don't need hypotheticals when you can look at reality. Zion is perfectly playable within a good defense, even if he's not top level on that end personally.

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Originally Posted by 6warddude

if we trade zion then our next move should be trying to get KAT....

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Whyyyyy?? KAT is soft AF. That is not what a team from NOLA represents.

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Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth

No actual source here

Its starting to seem real enough

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I'm not disputing whether that's true or not because I have no idea, but you think there's a bit of a contradiction between these two statements.

Like, if there's no real source, is it starting to seem real, or is it just people talking?

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Originally Posted by LAL1947

Whyyyyy?? KAT is soft AF. That is not what a team from NOLA represents.

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This is true. Lakers fans should decide our roster construction instead, for some reason.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I'm not disputing whether that's true or not because I have no idea, but you think there's a bit of a contradiction between these two statements.

Like, if there's no real source, is it starting to seem real, or is it just people talking?

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It’s starting to seem real because rumors are coming from both sides, we have never seen that before

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

This is true. Lakers fans should decide our roster construction instead, for some reason.

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Go back and look at every past post I have made here. Every suggestion I made would have been awesome for the Pels.

Also, if I was petty, I could have made a "receipts thread" calling out those who dismissed my past posts in exactly the same manner you're doing now. :P

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Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth

No actual source here but

#Sources ? Zion Williamson and his camp reportedly prefer a change of scenery, specifically in New York. Pelicans will field trade calls through the NBA Draft, Thursday, June 22. #NBA

— NBATradeReport (@NBATradeReport) June 14, 2023

Its starting to seem real enough that now I am wondering what the trade would look like besides the pick.

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SURPRISE!!! SURPRISE!!!

Now that the Max Contract is in the bank, his true colors can be displayed.

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Yeah, let's trade BI!!!

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Originally Posted by LAL1947

Go back and look at every past post I have made here. Every suggestion I made would have bee awesome for the Pels.

Also, if I was petty, I could have made a "receipts thread" calling out those who dismissed my past posts in exactly the same manner you're doing now. :P

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I'm not even arguing about whether you're right - I don't really want KAT either. But that's based on the player, not my ideas of what New Orleans and their team should be 'about'.

I just find it strange that a Lakers fan is going to tell Pelicans fans what the Pelicans should be about.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I'm not even arguing about whether you're right - I don't really want KAT either. But that's based on the player, not my ideas of what New Orleans and their team should be 'about'.

I just find it strange that a Lakers fan is going to tell Pelicans fans what the Pelicans should be about.

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Well, I'm a Lakers fan but with a soft spot for the Pels for fam reasons. As in, I got weirdos in my fam who live in NOLA and actively support the Pels. :D Okay, they not weirdos, I'm just teasing there. Also, I like BI, as a former Lakers yute. I could pretend not to be a Lakers fan, if that helps. :p

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Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth

No actual source here but

#Sources ? Zion Williamson and his camp reportedly prefer a change of scenery, specifically in New York. Pelicans will field trade calls through the NBA Draft, Thursday, June 22. #NBA

— NBATradeReport (@NBATradeReport) June 14, 2023

Its starting to seem real enough that now I am wondering what the trade would look like besides the pick.

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Specifically new york huh? Again?

Fake news.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I think Lively at 14 would be a massive overdraft and I would consider it a horrible use of asset by Griff.

Lively's going to be fine, but his one outlier skill is rim protection. Admittedly, we need rim protection, but if you're picking a guy in the lottery you better not be picking him for fit when that same fit is regularly available in FA or on the trade market for the minimum.

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At 14, I think filling a need is fine. Top 8 or 10 may be a different story. I think he fills a glaring need as a rim protector and has played well in drop defense on PnR (which JV struggles with). He would definitely be a boom or bust type, but at 14 I think he could be worth the risk. Now is someone like Dick, Hendricks or Hawkins falls, that could certainly change things.