Pelicans underwhelmed by Lakers' initial offers for Anthony Davis

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

I feel like you're mixing positives with negatives. For example if KD or Kyrie say they are 100% going to New York that makes them more desperate to get AD which increases our offer.

If KD says it, I THINK Boston and The Knicks both go as hard as possible to get AD.

If you agree that AD probably gets traded in June then I think knowing where Kyrie goes after that is irrelevant. You're also assuming Kyrie hasn't already given Boston a commitment behind closed doors.

As far as AD and his camp goes, I don't think anyone involved cares. They all knows its just posturing. If AD knows he'd have to be a rental and waste a year before joining Lebron does his stance stay the same? No I doubt it.

The Knicks pick we won't know exact odds until the end of the season so that 60% could change and if we trade AD to them now we Guarantee! the pick will have worse odds. Combine this with not being able to get DSJ and I think there's plenty of risk of taking a worse deal now.

Would I still be willing to do it? That depends. *IF* Boston swore they'd give me EVERYTHING in the summer, I think Tatum, Brown, Smart, plus 4 1st round picks is probably better and I'd take that.

Let's take the middle ground and say the Knicks pick hits No. 3 if we trade AD there at the deadline. Is Knox, Frank, the Knicks pick, both Dallas picks, and another Knicks pick better than what Boston guarantees us? I'd probably say no.

Would I be upset? No.

But the risk to me is worth it because I don't believe the worst case scenario has very high odds of happening at all. Your scenario involves assuming the worst case scenario breaks against us in multiple instances to even run the Possibility of us getting a less offer. I don't think you can run a NBA team by being afraid.

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That's fair.

I'd throw out the awkwardness of selling season ticket renewals, what happens when AD is cleared and wants to play, and further tanking the Pelicans Q-score if this gets really messy, but I don't think it would sway any fans who just wants to wait.

You also have to decide on your timeline and make a commitment to players sooner. Brown needs to get paid next summer. Tatum the following summer. That limits what you can do over the next 3 years.

If Tatum and/or Brown were All Stars, I'd wait too and gladly take on the risk.

I think the fear thing actually works both ways too. Those of you who want to wait have FOMO (a better deal might be there in June) and are afraid the worst case scenario happens with all the Knicks picks.

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

That's fair.

I'd throw out the awkwardness of selling season ticket renewals, what happens when AD is cleared and wants to play, and further tanking the Pelicans Q-score if this gets really messy, but I don't think it would sway any fans who just wants to wait.

You also have to decide on your timeline and make a commitment to players sooner. Brown needs to get paid next summer. Tatum the following summer. That limits what you can do over the next 3 years.

If Tatum and/or Brown were All Stars, I'd wait too and gladly take on the risk.

I think the fear thing actually works both ways too. Those of you who want to wait have FOMO (a better deal might be there in June) and are afraid the worst case scenario happens with all the Knicks picks.

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To be clear I'm not afraid of losing out which is why I'm willing to risk it and wait until summer.

As far as AD playing goes, he can't force his way into playing. At his press conference he even said Pelicans have every right to sit him. That's a non issue.

The rest of your points however I agree with. There's risks on both sides but Knicks deal isn't sweet enough to make me jump.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

To be clear I'm not afraid of losing out which is why I'm willing to risk it and wait until summer.

As far as AD playing goes, he can't force his way into playing. At his press conference he even said Pelicans have every right to sit him. That's a non issue.

The rest of your points however I agree with. There's risks on both sides but Knicks deal isn't sweet enough to make me jump.

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NBAPA and NBA both have interest in him playing if he's medically cleared and wants to push the issue.

We can't get in the trap where we accept what we hear from players or the reps as gospel when it's convenient and what we want to hear, and say it's spin, agenda driven, or meaningless when it doesn't fit our own narrative. AD said a few a things that contradict his representation and those close to him. AD is saying what he thinks fans and media want him to say, while his people are saying and will do whatever it takes to get him where he wants to go. That's the way the game works and why those folks are being paid. If he tries to force his way on the court, he'll just say he wants to play and he's leaving the conversation around whether or not he can play to his reps and other people. And they'll be raising hell to get him on the court.

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

NBAPA and NBA both have interest in him playing if he's medically cleared and wants to push the issue.

We can't get in the trap where we accept what we hear from players or the reps as gospel when it's convenient and what we want to hear, and say it's spin, agenda driven, or meaningless when it doesn't fit our own narrative. AD said a few a things that contradict his representation and those close to him. AD is saying what he thinks fans and media want him to say, while his people are saying and will do whatever it takes to get him where he wants to go. That's the way the game works and why those folks are being paid. If he tries to force his way on the court, he'll just say he wants to play and he's leaving the conversation around whether or not he can play to his reps and other people. And they'll be raising hell to get him on the court.

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Yeah, but what Mythrol is getting at is that, at the end of the day, it doesn't matter what his reps say. He could have Rich Paul personally calling Demps and Gentry every single day, ordering them to play him, and if they don't want to, they don't have to. It really is that simple.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Yeah, but what Mythrol is getting at is that, at the end of the day, it doesn't matter what his reps say. He could have Rich Paul personally calling Demps and Gentry every single day, ordering them to play him, and if they don't want to, they don't have to. It really is that simple.

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As long as they don't bar him from team activities I simple see no way they can be forced to play him on game days.

It's be even worse if Rich Paul and AD made an issue of it after AD said in his press conference the Pels have every right to sit him.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Yeah, but what Mythrol is getting at is that, at the end of the day, it doesn't matter what his reps say. He could have Rich Paul personally calling Demps and Gentry every single day, ordering them to play him, and if they don't want to, they don't have to. It really is that simple.

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Also Thursday, the Board of Governors voted to allow Commissioner Adam Silver to fine teams who violate the league's new guidelines about resting players. Teams can't sit healthy players for high-profile, nationally televised games, and fines for violating that can be for at least $100,000.

The rules also say that unless there are unusual circumstances, teams should not rest multiple healthy players for the same game or rest healthy players when playing on the road.

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http://www.nba.com/article/2017/09/2...esting-players

Whether this rule applies to Pelicans/AD is up Adam Silver.

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

http://www.nba.com/article/2017/09/2...esting-players

Whether this rule applies to Pelicans/AD is up Adam Silver.

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Sure, except if you remember, AD is out with a fractured finger, and although it was reported he could be back as soon as 2 weeks, the first report was 4-6. We aren't resting him, and he isn't healthy: AD is sitting for injury management.

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

http://www.nba.com/article/2017/09/2...esting-players

Whether this rule applies to Pelicans/AD is up Adam Silver.

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Where does it say they can force AD to play? They talk about fines for nationally televised games but even then they say there is a clause for unusual situations which this falls directly into. So worst case they fine a tanking team who might get what? A couple more nationally televised games this year?

They can't force us to play him and risk injury.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

Where does it say they can force AD to play? They talk about fines for nationally televised games but even then they say there is a clause for unusual situations which this falls directly into. So worst case they fine a tanking team who might get what? A couple more nationally televised games this year?

They can't force us to play him and risk injury.

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Even if he could force it, he can't dictate that AD play more than 1 second per game. He can suit up, he can come off the bench, he can get subbed in on the first of 2 free throws, and subbed out on the second.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Even if he could force it, he can't dictate that AD play more than 1 second per game. He can suit up, he can come off the bench, he can get subbed in on the first of 2 free throws, and subbed out on the second.

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Absolutely Silver cannot go around dictating a team is forced to play specific players. If he wants to fine them for not, ok sure. But there is no chance he can walk in and tell an owner you are 100% going to play this player. Just isn't possible. He can say, "I'll fine you if you don't." but there simply is no authority or precedent that forces an owner to put a player on the court.

That's literally why the rule says they can be fined and even that is for nationally televised games, etc.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

Absolutely Silver cannot go around dictating a team is forced to play specific players. If he wants to fine them for not, ok sure. But there is no chance he can walk in and tell an owner you are 100% going to play this player. Just isn't possible. He can say, "I'll fine you if you don't." but there simply is no authority or precedent that forces an owner to put a player on the court.

That's literally why the rule says they can be fined and even that is for nationally televised games, etc.

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Yeah I know, I'm just taking it to the furthest possible limit. Even if Silver was motivated to force AD into playing, and even if he could find a way to force him to attend games, and even if he could force AD to be suited up, and even if he could force him onto the court, there is no possible way he could dictate minutes. So even if NMThreeMVP was right, and Silver could somehow engineer a scenario where AD absolutely had to play it still wouldn't force our hands any further than a single second.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Yeah I know, I'm just taking it to the furthest possible limit. Even if Silver was motivated to force AD into playing, and even if he could find a way to force him to attend games, and even if he could force AD to be suited up, and even if he could force him onto the court, there is no possible way he could dictate minutes. So even if NMThreeMVP was right, and Silver could somehow engineer a scenario where AD absolutely had to play it still wouldn't force our hands any further than a single second.

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I simply think that's a non starter because it is so far out of the realm of possibility.

In a world where Silver could force an owner to pay a player, Silver could also dictate his minutes and his rotation too. He simply doesn't have that kind of power in the world we live in.

Kuzma Ingram Ball May not be all stars but they’re far from trash .


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Originally Posted by MistaWhoDat

Kuzma Ingram Ball May not be all stars but they’re far from trash .


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so you wanna trade ad for a bunch of role players then?

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Originally Posted by MistaWhoDat

Kuzma Ingram Ball May not be all stars but they’re far from trash .


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None of them area as good as Tatum and Brown not to mention the picks available.

The Lakers first is worthless.

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Originally Posted by P_B_&_G

None of them area as good as Tatum and Brown not to mention the picks available.

The Lakers first is worthless.

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The picks are what elevate the Celtics offer over the Lakers' offer. The players are more comparable than people realize/acknowledge.

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

The picks are what elevate the Celtics offer over the Lakers' offer. The players are more comparable than people realize/acknowledge.

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I like Kuzma and Ingram but Ball is hot trash. He might end up being an okay starter but his shot is horrible plus his dad and the distractions he would bring are not worth it.

Agreed on the picks making a big difference but I think Tatum is going to end up the best of them all.

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Originally Posted by P_B_&_G

None of them area as good as Tatum and Brown not to mention the picks available.

The Lakers first is worthless.

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No I’d rather have Tatum and Brown over them .


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Originally Posted by MistaWhoDat

No I’d rather have Tatum and Brown over them .


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Absolutely

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Originally Posted by P_B_&_G

Absolutely

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You take Tatum out of the deal and I’d rather have the Lakers deal as long as it came with Kuzma Ingram Ball Hart and Zubac and some draft picks


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Meanwhile these trash Lakers players are beating the Warriors right now .


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Originally Posted by MistaWhoDat

Meanwhile these trash Lakers players are beating the Warriors right now .


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Not quite

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Originally Posted by P_B_&_G

Not quite

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Meanwhile, how have thoes young guys performed?

Kuzma: 13/4/2 on 33% from the floor and 25% from 3
Ingram: 20/4/3 on 42% from the floor and 0% from 3
Zubac: 8/8/1 on 44% from the floor
Hart: 0/5/1 on 0% from the floor.

So that's a combined 41/21/7 on 38% from the floor and 11.1% from 3 in 117 minutes.

For comparison:

Frank: 25/2/2 on 50% from the floor and 14% from 3
Kenrich: 12/6/3 on 71% from the floor and 50% from 3
Okafor: 6/7/4 on 38% from the floor
Diallo: 13/8/3 on 71% from the floor.

That's a combined 56/23/12 on 54% from the floor and 28% from 3 in 120 minutes.


Incredible.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Meanwhile, how have thoes young guys performed?

Kuzma: 13/4/2 on 33% from the floor and 25% from 3
Ingram: 20/4/3 on 42% from the floor and 0% from 3
Zubac: 8/8/1 on 44% from the floor
Hart: 0/5/1 on 0% from the floor.

So that's a combined 41/21/7 on 38% from the floor and 11.1% from 3 in 117 minutes.

Incredible.

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To be fair... those young guys have been playing for a dumpster fire franchise and have been a part of trade speculation for 2 year. Not quite an ideal situation. Ingram and Ball are talented and need to be in better situations. Zubac has flashed potential.

Kuzma and Hart are the two who Lakers fans have grossly inflated perceptions of! Those dudes aren't any more useful than Frank and Kenrich.

But it's really the Lakers picks that deflate the value of their trade package. Those picks aren't as valuable as BOS/NYK

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

To be fair... those young guys have been playing for a dumpster fire franchise and have been a part of trade speculation for 2 year. Not quite an ideal situation. Ingram and Ball are talented and need to be in better situations. Zubac has flashed potential.

Kuzma and Hart are the two who Lakers fans have grossly inflated perceptions of! Those dudes aren't any more useful than Frank and Kenrich.

But it's really the Lakers picks that deflate the value of their trade package. Those picks aren't as valuable as BOS/NYK

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That's my thinking, the players are equal to what we could get from the Knicks but the Knicks have the best potential pick. The Lakers have the least appealing players and there pick offer is trash. Then Boston has the best players available (IMO) plus multiple firsts.

Both the Knicks and Celtics can make better offers than the Lakers. Not to mention there are undoubtedly other teams that have not gone public that could offer more than the Lakers can and either have already made offers or will.