Bring back CP3

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth

Superstars respect other superstars. NBA players definitely recognize AD and Cousins as both elite level dream team caliber players. The Kings and Pelicans did not have success for a variety of reasons as already described. It was not because of AD or Cousins.

Indiana plays in the west and they still barely made it above .500. Are you kidding me? Houston doesn't have multiple elite players, but what they do have is a coherently designed supporting cast around Harden with a plan that makes sense. Adding CP3 would disrupt their plan because Harden and Paul are both the primary ball handlers. The Pelicans are a team with the best front court in the NBA and a wide open spot for a PG like Paul.

If CP3 aligned with Boogie and AD, the Pelicans are instantly competing for titles. The Pelicans had no time to prepare a vision with Boogie and AD after the all star break. Its ridiculous to act like that small sample size of games is an accurate reflection of what to expect for next year. Even you know this because you are leaving yourself wiggle room so that when AD and Cousins take over the league you won't sound completely foolish.

---

Ok we'll see who we sign this year.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by da ThRONe

Ok we'll see who we sign this year.

---

If the Pelicans are unable to attract quality FA, it won't be because of AD or Cousins. Those 2 players are the only reasons anybody would want to come here. And you are implying people won't want to come here because of those 2 guys, its just crazy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by da ThRONe

Who's saying it won't work?

---

I think people are just taking your realistic views towards the franchise as negativity. Just because we have two superstars does not mean that anything is guaranteed or that our franchise is any different as a whole in regards to disfunction. Even though i see the current team (including Jrue) as a playoff team, i dont think we have a "playoff culture" so to speak in the locker room. There hasnt been a defined leader on this team since CP left and i dont see Davis becoming that guy this year

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth

If the Pelicans are unable to attract quality FA, it won't be because of AD or Cousins. Those 2 players are the only reasons anybody would want to come here. And you are implying people won't want to come here because of those 2 guys, its just crazy.

---

I dont think anyone on this board would imply that Cousins or AD would be reasons for top level free agents not to come here. I think its more along the lines of the fact that our team isnt known as a winning franchise. Also could be because you have a player like Jrue who would potentially sign else where due to his issues with ownership, per Mac

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bojangles837

I think people are just taking your realistic views towards the franchise as negativity. Just because we have two superstars does not mean that anything is guaranteed or that our franchise is any different as a whole in regards to disfunction. Even though i see the current team (including Jrue) as a playoff team, i dont think we have a "playoff culture" so to speak in the locker room. There hasnt been a defined leader on this team since CP left and i dont see Davis becoming that guy this year

---

Cut it out with the logic.

Being realistic is bad. If you're not overly optimistic, you're doing it wrong!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth

If the Pelicans are unable to attract quality FA, it won't be because of AD or Cousins. Those 2 players are the only reasons anybody would want to come here. And you are implying people won't want to come here because of those 2 guys, its just crazy.

---

It's NOT "players" won't come here because of AD and Boogie's presence.

It's "players" won't come here DESPITE AD and Boogie's presence, until they both prove they can win games together.

For the 2342o-0o420th time, that's not a statement against their potential. It's an assessment of who they have been as players separately and together, however brief.

(And before you attack the use of the word, "players," I'm only using the same jargon as the OP).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PelsFan2313

It's NOT "players" won't come here because of AD and Boogie's presence.

It's "players" won't come here DESPITE AD and Boogie's presence, until they both prove they can win games together.

For the 2342o-0o420th time, that's not a statement against their potential. It's an assessment of who they have been as players separately and together, however brief.

(And before you attack the use of the word, "players," I'm only using the same jargon as the OP).

---

Thats a bingo!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PelsFan2313

It's NOT "players" won't come here because of AD and Boogie's presence.

It's "players" won't come here DESPITE AD and Boogie's presence, until they both prove they can win games together.

For the 2342o-0o420th time, that's not a statement against their potential. It's an assessment of who they have been as players separately and together, however brief.

---

for the millionth time, you cannot make an assessment of an individual player based on how many wins his team has. Winning teams are successful because of contributions from players other than the best player on the team. Its the supporting cast and coaching that makes the team successful, not just the performance of the 1 guy who is the best player on the team. AD and Cousins were the best players on their respective teams. But the win totals of those teams CANNOT be used to say that AD and Cousins aren't "needle movers". This where you keep stubbornly making the same mistake.

Players don't need to see anything more from AD or Boogie. At all. Those two have proven themselves on the court and everyone knows they are elite (except for you, who inexplicably claims they aren't needle movers). What free agents need to see from the Pelicans is a stronger supporting cast, a logical plan for the team, and better coaching. It has absolutely zero to do with AD and Cousins not being "needle movers".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth

for the millionth time, you cannot make an assessment of an individual player based on how many wins his team has. Winning teams are successful because of contributions from players other than the best player on the team. Its the supporting cast and coaching that makes the team successful, not just the performance of the 1 guy who is the best player on the team. AD and Cousins were the best players on their respective teams. But the win totals of those teams CANNOT be used to say that AD and Cousins aren't "needle movers". This where you keep stubbornly making the same mistake.

Players don't need to see anything more from AD or Boogie. At all. Those two have proven themselves on the court and everyone knows they are elite (except for you, who inexplicably claims they aren't needle movers). What free agents need to see from the Pelicans is a stronger supporting cast, a logical plan for the team, and better coaching. It has absolutely zero to do with AD and Cousins not being "needle movers".

---

I can't make this any more clear. I am beyond belief that I haven't driven this point home yet. I HAVE NOT made ANY assessment of what our team can be. All I have said is there is no definitive proof that we are are going to be good because AD and Boogie haven't done anything to this point to prove differently, separately or together.

It's so ironic that you keep saying that stars are the byproduct of their supporting cast and coaching, yet you keep assuming that we're going to be good WITHOUT even knowing who the supporting cast is going to be. So take your own advice and stop making assumptions of excellence when there is NOTHING to back up that projection. It's nothing but conjecture until AD and Boogie step on the floor with their soon-to-be-determined supporting case and WIN.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth

for the millionth time, you cannot make an assessment of an individual player based on how many wins his team has. Winning teams are successful because of contributions from players other than the best player on the team. Its the supporting cast and coaching that makes the team successful, not just the performance of the 1 guy who is the best player on the team. AD and Cousins were the best players on their respective teams. But the win totals of those teams CANNOT be used to say that AD and Cousins aren't "needle movers". This where you keep stubbornly making the same mistake.

Players don't need to see anything more from AD or Boogie. At all. Those two have proven themselves on the court and everyone knows they are elite (except for you, who inexplicably claims they aren't needle movers). What free agents need to see from the Pelicans is a stronger supporting cast, a logical plan for the team, and better coaching. It has absolutely zero to do with AD and Cousins not being "needle movers".

---

A needle mover is someone whos going to lead there team to more wins and into the playoffs. ie. lebron making the finals with a team full of absolute scrubs. So yeah, you probably shouldn't base normal players success on wins but you definitely can make that assessment if someone who is suppose to be a "needle mover"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PelsFan2313

I can't make this any more clear. I am beyond belief that I haven't driven this point home yet. I HAVE NOT made ANY assessment of what our team can be. All I have said is there is no definitive proof that we are are going to be good because AD and Boogie haven't done anything to this point to prove differently, separately or together.

It's so ironic that you keep saying that stars are the byproduct of their supporting cast and coaching, yet you keep assuming that we're going to be good WITHOUT even knowing who the supporting cast is going to be. So take your own advice and stop making assumptions of excellence when there is NOTHING to back up that projection. It's nothing but conjecture until AD and Boogie step on the floor with their soon-to-be-determined supporting case and WIN.

---

I'm not making assumptions about anything. I'm going by what Boogie and AD have shown in the NBA, which is that they are elite. These guys are perennial all stars and recognized by their peers as being the best. Their performance as individuals has proven this beyond doubt. You are the one saying that AD and Cousins aren't needle movers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth

I'm not making assumptions about anything. I'm going by what Boogie and AD have shown in the NBA, which is that they are elite. These guys are perennial all stars and recognized by their peers as being the best. Their performance as individuals has proven this beyond doubt. You are the one saying that AD and Cousins aren't needle movers.

---

To quote Da Throne.. What have they done?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by da ThRONe

Again what needle have they moved? They are both great young players. Franchise player doesn't denote needle mover. Nothing you have said addresses my point.

---

What needle did Bosh and Wade move before teaming up with Lebron in Miami? Yet, you said they were all needle movers before getting together.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bojangles837

A needle mover is someone whos going to lead there team to more wins and into the playoffs. ie. lebron making the finals with a team full of absolute scrubs. So yeah, you probably shouldn't base normal players success on wins but you definitely can make that assessment if someone who is suppose to be a "needle mover"

---

Lebron James is possibly the best basketball player to ever live and even he couldn't do it by himself, which is why he left Cleveland in the first place. What was your point again?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bojangles837

To quote Da Throne.. What have they done?

---

Played better than everyone else in the NBA at their respective positions. I thought that was really obvious.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

What needle did Bosh and Wade move before teaming up with Lebron in Miami? Yet, you said they were all needle movers before getting together.

---

Wade was a finals MVP before lebron went to Miami

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth

Lebron James is possibly the best basketball player to ever live and even he couldn't do it by himself, which is why he left Cleveland in the first place. What was your point again?

---

The point is still the fact that Davis and cousins aren't needle movers yet

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth

I'm not making assumptions about anything. I'm going by what Boogie and AD have shown in the NBA, which is that they are elite. These guys are perennial all stars and recognized by their peers as being the best. Their performance as individuals has proven this beyond doubt. You are the one saying that AD and Cousins aren't needle movers.

---

A- I didn't say AD and Cousins weren't "needle movers," DaThrone did. Don't put words in my mouth.
B- They have shown they are elite when it comes to putting up individual numbers. They have not shown that they are elite when it comes to winning basketball games.

So yes, you are making presumptions. Individual excellence does not necessarily translate to team excellence, particularly when the rest of the supporting cast is poor. And again you can't have it both ways. Either the supporting cast matters, so we can't assume we'll win next year (without knowing what the supporting case will be) OR the supporting cast doesn't matter, which means AD and Cousins aren't the "needle movers," you claim them to be.

Also, on another point, the LeBron and MJ "couldn't do it by themselves" is a silly argument because you're still talking about varying levels of success. MJ took the early Bulls teams deep into the postseason. LeBron took a hot pile of garbage to the Finals in 2007. Meanwhile, Cousins hasn't even sniffed the playoffs, and AD hasn't won a single playoff game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth

Lebron James is possibly the best basketball player to ever live and even he couldn't do it by himself, which is why he left Cleveland in the first place. What was your point again?

---

You lost me at LeBron being possibly being the best ever.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bojangles837

Wade was a finals MVP before lebron went to Miami

---

You are correct, I forgot they beat Dallas. I stand corrected. I recalled him not being able to get out of the 1st round before Lebron came.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PelsFan2313

A- I didn't say AD and Cousins weren't playmakers, DaThrone did. Don't put words in my mouth.
B- They have shown they are elite when it comes to putting up individual numbers. They have not shown that they are elite when it comes to winning basketball games.

So yes, you are making presumptions. Individual excellence does not necessarily translate to team excellence, particularly when the rest of the supporting cast is poor. And again you can't have it both ways. Either the supporting cast matters, so we can't we'll next year (without knowing what the supporting case will be) OR the supporting cast doesn't matter, which means AD and Cousins aren't the"needle movers," you claim them to be.

Also, on another point, the LeBron and MJ "couldn't do it by themselves" is a silly argument because you're still talking about varying levels of success. MJ still took the early Bulls teams deep into the postseason. Meanwhile, Cousins hasn't even sniffed the playoffs, and AD hasn't won a single playoff game.

---

Lol you don't want him to put words in your mouth then proceed to do the same to me. I never said they weren't playmakers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by da ThRONe

Lol you don't want him to put words in your mouth then proceed to do the same to me. I never said they weren't playmakers.

---

I meant "needle movers," I mistyped.

Overall, I'm with you though, not against you. You're just making a different argument to make the same point, which is AD and Boogie haven't done anything to prove they can lead a successful team.

But just to address your "needle mover point," I think their ability to "move the needle" is limited by the fact that they aren't perimeter players. Today's NBA is a perimeter-driven league, and our backcourt as it stands is Crawford, Moore, Cook, and Jackson. Ouch.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

What needle did Bosh and Wade move before teaming up with Lebron in Miami? Yet, you said they were all needle movers before getting together.

---

What? Wade was Finals MVP and Bosh was in the playoffs every year.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PelsFan2313

I meant "needle movers," I mistyped.

---

Ok cool it happens.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by da ThRONe

What? Wade was Finals MVP and Bosh was in the playoffs every year.

---

See above. And Bosh only made the playoffs twice with Toronto if I recall (and did not get out of the 1st round).