Jason Collins comes out {merged}

So many things wrong in that post that I won't have time to adequately respond until my work day is over.

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Originally Posted by nowillrise

I kind of think the players already knew what was up. That could explain the overwhelming response in favor of JC coming out. These players are with each other months at a time, they know who are doing what and who.

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This may be the case for a lot of guys but I read that Collins just told his twin brother last summer. So more than likely he didn't tell his teammates ahead of time.

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Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar

This may be the case for a lot of guys but I read that Collins just told his twin brother last summer. So more than likely he didn't tell his teammates ahead of time.

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I think it's a case where he made it official, but if you've been around a person long enough you usually know well before they "come out".

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

I think it's a case where he made it official, but if you've been around a person long enough you usually know well before they "come out".

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His twin brother said he was "astounded". So I take that as being he was shocked and didn't know. But who am I say what that means I am just repeating what was said.

The fact that people treat a specific case as a general case and do not care about the specifics shows that there is no real acknowledgement that a real person is being discussed. This is far more disturbing than any of the thinly veiled shots Collins and others are taking.

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Originally Posted by 42

The fact that people treat a specific case as a general case and do not care about the specifics shows that there is no real acknowledgement that a real person is being discussed. This is far more disturbing than any of the thinly veiled shots Collins and others are taking.

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Yup, the lack of empathy is the problem. Those that belittle this as nothing, is in essence belittling the wrong doing that they go through. Or maybe they don't see it as wrong doing in the first place? Maybe the should just get over it and live with it? That's f**ked up. The fact that they have a "closet" is because they live in a society where they have to hide from just being themselves. Straight people don't.

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Originally Posted by wuggie

Yup, the lack of empathy is the problem. Those that belittle this as nothing, is in essence belittling the wrong doing that they go through. Or maybe they don't see it as wrong doing in the first place? Maybe the should just get over it and live with it? That's f**ked up. The fact that they have a "closet" is because they live in a society where they have to hide from just being themselves. Straight people don't.

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[sigh] Your misrepresenting our stance. My point is the media shoulnt overhype and promote this as much as it has been. I will say players should be comfortable enough to be themselves in public. The media just goes overboard. Thats it.

In perusing the various team fan message boards yesterday, I found that one opinion of Collins’ coming out announcement to be more numerous than others: I could care less. Whether Collins was gay straight, or something else, a majority of posters expressed indifference about it and didn’t see how it was relevant to the league as a whole or Collins’ future in the league.

In talking with people I know, that has been a similar reaction. I told one person, “isn’t this significant?” He responded, “I guess so.” Another person I told, “This will change things for gays in professional sports,” and was told in response, “I really don’t think about someone’s orientation. It makes no difference to me.”

This is exactly the kind of reaction that we want to see. It’s called acceptance. No one cares who is gay or who is straight. It never crosses their mind. This is true acceptance.

It is also not the reaction that either the Collins camp or the media wants. They want this to be a big deal. They want this to be monumental. They want this to lead to more pro athletes coming out as gay. They want this to be the 21st Century’s Jackie Robinson.
(Side note: to compare Jason Collins to Jackie Robinson, or to compare the issues facing gays to the oppression that African Americans had to endure for hundreds of years is as disgraceful as a comparison can get. There is no comparing the 2 and anyone who tries is about as out of touch with reality as a purple alien).

Make no mistake, this was no random coming out on twitter. The Collins camp studied this, planned how to come out and who to come out to, and I would guess prepared to handle varied reactions from varied people. In other words, this was orchestrated to achieve maximum effect, which would eventually lead to opportunities in the future. They wanted to start a national dialogue, with Collins at the center of that dialogue. So far, the media is complying, as is the homosexual activist community.

At the same time, some are trying to sell the public that the exact opposite is the case. In several outlets, Collins is already being portrayed as the victim of discrimination before it has happened. And several callers and e-mailers and tweeters who dare question Collins’ motives are themselves being vilified by the radio hosts and writers they are responding to. Remember, people who preach tolerance usually mean “tolerance, but only to my point of view” Just check the reaction to Chris Broussard's comments to see an example of that.

But people by and large are saying, "I do not care what Jason Collins is." And that is the biggest breakthrough of all.

I think we've been in the "don't ask, don't tell" phase on this issue in professional sports and many would like to keep it there. The real question is can a person live openly as a homosexual and pursue their chosen vocation. Up until now every gay person in the four biggest professional sports leagues has chosen to keep their sexual orientation secret. I think that clearly shows they don't feel they can be open about who they are. That's why Collin's coming out was a big deal. Sure, we've seen it in other walks of life, even in the military now. But major sports was a big exception. I'll be interested to see how many follow his lead.

I "could" (meaning could not) care less... but I commented.

The people I know who could not care less also did not care enough to comment.

If he had to come out in first place and we already accepted gay people in our society then why would he even have too? Because we all don't. "I don't care" seems to overshadow the question, why? Because its not largely accepted too kindly. If you didn't care why would you acknowledge it then? Do people actually don't care about the fact that he came out as gay, or just don't care about gay people? Ohhh...

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Originally Posted by 42

I "could" (meaning could not) care less... but I commented.

The people I know who could not care less also did not care enough to comment.

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Not caring is an opinion worth stating and a powerful one at that. The fact so many people are hoo hum about this is a positive IMO. I think it speaks to how far we've come as far as sexual preferences are concern.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

Not caring is an opinion worth stating and a powerful one at that. The fact so many people are hoo hum about this is a positive IMO. I think it speaks to how far we've come as far as sexual preferences are concern.

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Yes, the younger generation generally has more progressive views. However, it is people in the older demographics that have more individuals that do care and look down on Collins and others like him. And these older folks also happen to be the ones that scout, sign, coach, and run the teams.

As far as sports are concerned, just like with blacks in the 40s thru 60s, in the end talent will trump all. Collins might be trying to make it acceptable for a player to be openly gay in pro sports (headband with sequins and Hello Kitty?) and that is where the true test of how people really feel will come out. That is the significance of his announcement--it's not just about announcing it just for the sake of it.

However, if said player is a beast, he will have no trouble getting contracts.

I also believe an NFL player got caught fighting with his boyfriend not too long ago.

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Originally Posted by luckyman

As far as sports are concerned, just like with blacks in the 40s thru 60s, in the end talent will trump all. Collins might be trying to make it acceptable for a player to be openly gay in pro sports (headband with sequins and Hello Kitty?) and that is where the true test of how people really feel will come out. That is the significance of his announcement--it's not just about announcing it just for the sake of it.

However, if said player is a beast, he will have no trouble getting contracts.

I also believe an NFL player got caught fighting with his boyfriend not too long ago.

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The black-gay comparison isn't really a winning one. Gays generally hide themselves, and you can't really say "ah! that's a gay!" in most cases. You can't really hide the fact that you're black now, can you?

Reading the comments of this thread has really opened my eyes to the subtle offensive derogatory "Gay" comments that people make, believing (or trying to convince others) that they don't mean it in a bad way. In reality the person making the comment doesn't get to label what they say as offensive or not, the people hearing or reading their comments decide if it's offensive. I can tell you, there are a lot of offensive comments being made here that are played off and that’s the problem with society on this issue. It's hypocritical to say I have no problem with someone being gay, but .... If you really didn't have a problem with it you wouldn't need to say anything else. Saying someone talks or acts gay is not making an observation, it's putting being "gay" as different and in this case of lesser value. Really no different than saying someone talks or acts black. And no matter how someone tries to defend it, reasonable minded people can see it for what it is.

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Originally Posted by Kurgan

The black-gay comparison isn't really a winning one. Gays generally hide themselves, and you can't really say "ah! that's a gay!" in most cases. You can't really hide the fact that you're black now, can you?

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Light skinned black people did hide themselves years ago in order to be able to function in society. Some even hid themselves well enough to be elected to positions. This was a definite part of history in the South, especially in Louisiana.

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Originally Posted by Davisistheman

Reading the comments of this thread has really opened my eyes to the subtle offensive derogatory "Gay" comments that people make, believing (or trying to convince others) that they don't mean it in a bad way. In reality the person making the comment doesn't get to label what they say as offensive or not, the people hearing or reading their comments decide if it's offensive. I can tell you, there are a lot of offensive comments being made here that are played off and that’s the problem with society on this issue. It's hypocritical to say I have no problem with someone being gay, but .... If you really didn't have a problem with it you wouldn't need to say anything else. Saying someone talks or acts gay is not making an observation, it's putting being "gay" as different and in this case of lesser value. Really no different than saying someone talks or acts black. And no matter how someone tries to defend it, reasonable minded people can see it for what it is.

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i guess where you and I differ, is that i don't think 'gay' is derogatory, nor do i agree with implying a lesser value....
If there's such a thing as Hetero-guilt, this is it. There's no point in being offended by things that
a) aren't meant to be offensive in the first place
b) gay people wouldn't be offended by
c) doesn't involve you (if you're hetero)

But i did appreciate the insight, and thought your stance was well-put. I just don't agree with the foundation of your point. You are right, though, about it being in the eye of the beholder when it comes
to interpreting words.

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Originally Posted by Heavy

i guess where you and I differ, is that i don't think 'gay' is derogatory, nor do i agree with implying a lesser value....
If there's such a thing as Hetero-guilt, this is it. There's no point in being offended by things that
a) aren't meant to be offensive in the first place
b) gay people wouldn't be offended by
c) doesn't involve you (if you're hetero)

But i did appreciate the insight, and thought your stance was well-put. I just don't agree with the foundation of your point. You are right, though, about it being in the eye of the beholder when it comes
to interpreting words.

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Respectfully, just because you do not think "gay" is used as derogatory term certainly doesn't mean that it isn't.

a) Just because something isn't meant to be offensive doesn't mean that it can not BE offensive.
b) You assume they are not offended, peobably because you are not offended.
c) This is just nonsense, the way we treat each other a human beings involves us all.

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Originally Posted by Kurgan

The black-gay comparison isn't really a winning one. Gays generally hide themselves, and you can't really say "ah! that's a gay!" in most cases. You can't really hide the fact that you're black now, can you?

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You misinterpreted what you read. The point was made in an environment where a player is OPENLY gay. So, with that is mind, just like for African Americans in those days, my opinion is talent will trump personal views, which is exactly parrallel. If you have serious talent then not many will care if you have your boyfriend openly rooting for you in the stands, locker room hallway, out around town, etc.

That bring it home?

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Originally Posted by Lurkaholic

Light skinned black people did hide themselves years ago in order to be able to function in society. Some even hid themselves well enough to be elected to positions. This was a definite part of history in the South, especially in Louisiana.

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A light skinned black person who can effectively pass as white is still fairly rare when you look at the black community as whole. Be honest, there aren't that many black males walking around that look like Dutch Morial.