Pels Off season thread

At this stage of his career, I'm going to assume he likely ends up with contending teams.

Yeah... Outside of the Ben Simmons trade rumor. I don't think Brogdon is up for sale at a good value. Just been hearing crickets on that.

When did Dinwiddie become this "meh" player? 20 M a year for him is that bad??

I'm valuing mostly a guard that can lead this team. Especially with a rookie Head Coach. Dinwiddie leadership skills is better then the super cool chill friend who raps sometimes Lonzo Ball.

This team will go as far as their accountability buddy/leader.

I don't pretend to know what the answer is but what I do know is that we cannot go into the season with the same players and expect one of them to step up to that lead guard role. We will probably not make the playoffs again without a high level lead guard.

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Originally Posted by Silverfoxx

When did Dinwiddie become this "meh" player? 20 M a year for him is that bad??

I'm valuing mostly a guard that can lead this team. Especially with a rookie Head Coach. Dinwiddie leadership skills is better then the super cool chill friend who raps sometimes Lonzo Ball.

This team will go as far as their accountability buddy/leader.

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He's never really been much more than a "meh" player and now he is coming off a serious injury.

If anybody should have a line on Cameron Payne it should be Willie Green. Payne looked like the 'real deal' during the playoffs for Phoenix. He's an UFA and probably would like to strike out now while the iron is hot. If 'Playoff Cameron' was real (Willie would know, I guess), maybe he would be a nice, low-priced fit in New Orleans to pair with Kira until one of our our first choices give us the nod in free agency (or we develop a point guard in-house). I'm tired of treading water with 'seconds'...tired of giving 'A-List Money' to 'Third Rate Talent'...tired of always being on the outside looking in.

I simply don't want to waste our capital chasing mirages...ghosts...other teams' trash.

That's what we did with Omer... (FAIL)
That's what we did with Derrick... (FAIL)
That's what we did with JJ... (FAIL) (Hell, we paid this moron 26MM over two years and he trashes the organization on the way out).
That's what we did with Steven... (FAIL)

I hope to God that's not what we do with Dinwiddie.

Give me a guy that's hungry!!!

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Originally Posted by Snarly

I don't pretend to know what the answer is but what I do know is that we cannot go into the season with the same players and expect one of them to step up to that lead guard role. We will probably not make the playoffs again without a high level lead guard.

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Agreed.

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Originally Posted by Snarly

I don't pretend to know what the answer is but what I do know is that we cannot go into the season with the same players and expect one of them to step up to that lead guard role. We will probably not make the playoffs again without a high level lead guard.

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Does not seem that there will be any high level lead guards available in free agency. Maybe there is someone they can acquire via trade.

I think going for dinwiddie, who has already said "wants the bag" in free agency would be a tough sell for this fan base. I would just keep lonzo if those are the options, i dont see anything to get excited about in dinwiddie.

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Originally Posted by Coreyinthe504

I think going for dinwiddie, who has already said "wants the bag" in free agency would be a tough sell for this fan base. I would just keep lonzo if those are the options, i dont see anything to get excited about in dinwiddie.

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He isn?t worth the bag. I don?t see another team besides us being stupid enough to overpay him. Realistically our point guard options in free agency are either Ball or Dinwiddie though, and we need one.

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Originally Posted by Darkhorse985

He isn?t worth the bag. I don?t see another team besides us being stupid enough to overpay him. Realistically our point guard options in free agency are either Ball or Dinwiddie though, and we need one.

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Yeah that is true we need one of them. MM posted on twitter about fred which is something i forgot that dinwiddie can be possibly fixed like lonzo was. I guess that would make it more interesting then, and probably what pels are going for too.

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Originally Posted by As I See It

If anybody should have a line on Cameron Payne it should be Willie Green. Payne looked like the 'real deal' during the playoffs for Phoenix. He's an UFA and probably would like to strike out now while the iron is hot. If 'Playoff Cameron' was real (Willie would know, I guess), maybe he would be a nice, low-priced fit in New Orleans to pair with Kira until one of our our first choices give us the nod in free agency (or we develop a point guard in-house). I'm tired of treading water with 'seconds'...tired of giving 'A-List Money' to 'Third Rate Talent'...tired of always being on the outside looking in.

I simply don't want to waste our capital chasing mirages...ghosts...other teams' trash.

That's what we did with Omer... (FAIL)
That's what we did with Derrick... (FAIL)
That's what we did with JJ... (FAIL) (Hell, we paid this moron 26MM over two years and he trashes the organization on the way out).
That's what we did with Steven... (FAIL)

I hope to God that's not what we do with Dinwiddie.

Give me a guy that's hungry!!!

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I don’t trust a career scrub who gets paid after one good playoff run. We have seen that fail many times before. On a short, cheap deal, sure.

I'm convinced at S&T to Chicago is happening tomorrow. However this trade wont go down how we expect it to. And we're going to bring back an unexpected player or two or a player and pick.

A Free agency of Dinwiddie plus one of Powell, Trent Jr., Hardaway Jr., or Fournier wouldn’t be terrible. Definitely better than Steven Adams and Eric Bledsoe.

Saw a rumor we are looking at Norm Powell and Marcus Smart with Smart being a potential S&T for Lonzo.

I kinda like Smart, would give us a lockdown defender at least.

I am a fan of bringing in Cam Payne. I believe he is a RFA, but if you can land him you are landing a plug and play starter with plenty of shelf life left.

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Originally Posted by UNO Gracias

I am a fan of bringing in Cam Payne. I believe he is a RFA, but if you can land him you are landing a plug and play starter with plenty of shelf life left.

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The guy hasn’t played significant minutes in 6 years and had one good playoff run. Now he is a plug and play starter? These type of backups who have a great playoff run before their FA are often fool’s gold.

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Originally Posted by Darkhorse985

The guy hasn’t played significant minutes in 6 years and had one good playoff run. Now he is a plug and play starter? These type of backups who have a great playoff run before their FA are often fool’s gold.

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I’m not saying he is Jason Kidd or Magic Johnson, I’m saying he is a plug and play point guard, and he will be far cheaper than Lowry and Ball being that he is a rotational player or low tier starter. Heck, I would even go with an Reggie Jackson or Ish Smith type pg as a bridge until Kira is ready. But I don’t think we are finding the point guard worth paying $20M+ to unless we are trading for him, so yes, give me Payne in the meantime as he should be cheap enough, and useful to the team that will be running an new system.

I don't really know Kenrick Nunn's game.
Is he that bad an option?

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Originally Posted by Coreyinthe504

Yeah that is true we need one of them. MM posted on twitter about fred which is something i forgot that dinwiddie can be possibly fixed like lonzo was. I guess that would make it more interesting then, and probably what pels are going for too.

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I am sure he was being sarcastic. I think he feels that many of the fanbase think Vinson is a miracle worker. He will not suddenly "fix" Dinwiddie.

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

I am sure he was being sarcastic. I think he feels that many of the fanbase think Vinson is a miracle worker. He will not suddenly "fix" Dinwiddie.

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Dinwiddie needs help from a medical doctor not a 'shot doctor'.

Eric Gordon 2.0??? Just not as good.

It’s funny to read on here that Dinwiddie’s shot needs to be “fixed” when in actuality he just needs to stop taking 3s off the dribble.

In 2019 he shot 37% on 2.2 catch and shoot 3s per game. The issue is he shot 28% on 4 pull up 3s per game, lowering his percentages. Remember he was basically the only creator on that team for the majority of the season

In 2018 he shot 37% on 2.2 catch and shoot 3s per game while shooting 31% on 3.2 pull ups.

Dinwiddie isn’t quite the shooter that Lonzo is, but his game is so much more nuanced offensively. His ability to drive off the catch will help the Pels spacing just as much as shooting would.

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Originally Posted by pelafanatic

It’s funny to read on here that Dinwiddie’s shot needs to be “fixed” when in actuality he just needs to stop taking 3s off the dribble.

In 2019 he shot 37% on 2.2 catch and shoot 3s per game. The issue is he shot 28% on 4 pull up 3s per game, lowering his percentages. Remember he was basically the only creator on that team for the majority of the season

In 2018 he shot 37% on 2.2 catch and shoot 3s per game while shooting 31% on 3.2 pull ups.

Dinwiddie isn’t quite the shooter that Lonzo is, but his game is so much more nuanced offensively. His ability to drive off the catch will help the Pels spacing just as much as shooting would.

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Somewhat agree, but 37% on catch and shoot is not great. Ball was at 41% on 6 shots a game last year and many players exceeded 40%. However, 37% is at least decent. You are correct, he needs to stop shooting off the dribble.

Ehhhh... I'd keep Lonzo, Sign Powell, and bring in Portis.

Willie is just gonna have to coach up a PG and that's all to it.

Late, hot addendum to today's story: A double sign-and-trade could be in works that sends Lonzo Ball to Charlotte and Devonte' Graham back to New Orleanshttps://t.co/NgSDoQe49D

— John Hollinger (@johnhollinger) August 2, 2021

Hopefully all of these reports are just speculation by the media. Otherwise, I worry that Griffin will panic and just overpay someone just to fill the position.

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

Late, hot addendum to today's story: A double sign-and-trade could be in works that sends Lonzo Ball to Charlotte and Devonte' Graham back to New Orleanshttps://t.co/NgSDoQe49D

— John Hollinger (@johnhollinger) August 2, 2021

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I knew something like this was in the mix as soon as Charlotte Restricted Graham.... I like Graham. However his game is much similar to Naw. So I'm very curious of the fit. But we're only hours away from knowing.

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Originally Posted by hornetzplaya

I knew something like this was in the mix as soon as Charlotte Restricted Graham.... I like Graham. However his game is much similar to Naw. So I'm very curious of the fit. But we're only hours away from knowing.

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Maybe we could flip him for something else. But he does seem pretty redundant on this roster

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Originally Posted by Taker597

Ehhhh... I'd keep Lonzo, Sign Powell, and bring in Portis.

Willie is just gonna have to coach up a PG and that's all to it.

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Per Mac, Lonzo is gone. Time to let go

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

Late, hot addendum to today's story: A double sign-and-trade could be in works that sends Lonzo Ball to Charlotte and Devonte' Graham back to New Orleanshttps://t.co/NgSDoQe49D

? John Hollinger (@johnhollinger) August 2, 2021

Hopefully all of these reports are just speculation by the media. Otherwise, I worry that Griffin will panic and just overpay someone just to fill the position.

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I wouldn't be surprised if the Pelicans have had this story planted to force Chicago's hand to increase the haul from them on S&T to ChiTown. Graham, by himself would be a total bust. the guy has never shot 40% during his professional career.

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Originally Posted by AusPel

Per Mac, Lonzo is gone. Time to let go

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I'm fine with that also.

Pelicans back in Chris Paul Sweepstakes? This from seven minutes ago.

https://hoopshype.com/rumor/1543963/

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Originally Posted by As I See It

Pelicans back in Chris Paul Sweepstakes? This from seven minutes ago.

https://hoopshype.com/rumor/1543963/

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It was posted to Hoopshype 7 min ago but references a Fischer article from July 31.

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

It was posted to Hoopshype 7 min ago but references a Fischer article from July 31.

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Good Catch. Disregard.

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

Late, hot addendum to today's story: A double sign-and-trade could be in works that sends Lonzo Ball to Charlotte and Devonte' Graham back to New Orleanshttps://t.co/NgSDoQe49D

? John Hollinger (@johnhollinger) August 2, 2021

Hopefully all of these reports are just speculation by the media. Otherwise, I worry that Griffin will panic and just overpay someone just to fill the position.

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Lonzo wants to go somewhere where he can be lead ball handler. Melo already occupies this spot. That's why I find it an odd fit. Maybe there's an exception here because it's his bro?

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Originally Posted by AusPel

Lonzo wants to go somewhere where he can be lead ball handler. Melo already occupies this spot. That's why I find it an odd fit. Maybe there's an exception here because it's his bro?

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Thought the same thing when reading this tweet.

Graham shot 42% on 5 catch and shoot 3pa per game. He's an elite shooter. Shooting is never redundant. Graham, Dinwiddie, Powell are all good basketball players that would still be good players on this roster.

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Originally Posted by AusPel

Lonzo wants to go somewhere where he can be lead ball handler. Melo already occupies this spot. That's why I find it an odd fit. Maybe there's an exception here because it's his bro?

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Hollinger is so far out of the know at this point that it's not worth speculating

Because of the lack of quality PGs I would be OK with Graham. I would prefer that rather than taking on or creating a bad new contract.

Update on my update: Could very well be Lonzo and Graham in double sign-and-trade, but *NOT* with Lonzo Ball going to Charlotte. Bulls remain very much in play for Ball. Could end up a very complex transaction if this happens.

— John Hollinger (@johnhollinger) August 2, 2021

Update

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Originally Posted by hornetzplaya

Update on my update: Could very well be Lonzo and Graham in double sign-and-trade, but *NOT* with Lonzo Ball going to Charlotte. Bulls remain very much in play for Ball. Could end up a very complex transaction if this happens.

— John Hollinger (@johnhollinger) August 2, 2021

Update

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Griffin trying to confuse everyone. Maybe he is looking to send the trash the Bulls are offering for Ball in a S&T to the Hornets for Graham?

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

Griffin trying to confuse everyone. Maybe he is looking to send the trash the Bulls are offering for Ball in a S&T to the Hornets for Graham?

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Or maybe both he and Klutch are trying to make the Lonzo market seem bigger so Lonzo can get more money and Griff could get more assets

I'm not buying anymore speculation. Imma just wait till 6pm and see what hoopla actually happens. We're gonna drive ourselves crazy seeing all these rumors.

I'd be fine with Graham or Dinwiddie if they took 6thman money, because that's what they are. They don't give you much outside of points at league average efficiency.

They dont want 6th man money.

Id rather the pels just be patient and sign whichever FA/trade pg gets the short end of the stick for a cheap deal. Outside of Lowry they're all just guys anyway.

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Originally Posted by Pelifan

I'd be fine with Graham or Dinwiddie if they took 6thman money, because that's what they are. They don't give you much outside of points at league average efficiency.

They dont want 6th man money.

Id rather the pels just be patient and sign whichever FA/trade pg gets the short end of the stick for a cheap deal. Outside of Lowry they're all just guys anyway.

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Are you just looking at stats? Because you cant possibly watch Dinwiddie and think all he does is get you points. He is a fantastic playmaker for others. He gets to the line and helps you get into the bonus. He is a terrific leader.

Guys arent just their stats on basketball reference. If you dont have time to watch the 29 other teams a ton, that is fine. But I hate this new world we are in where if we have access to a guys stats, we think we can give an informed evaluation of them as a player. Its so clear when I see people who dont watch and just use stats to guide their opinion.

Powell is the guy that can really make a difference on this team all things considered. The only issue is you're going all in on point Zion. Does Griff have the balls

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Are you just looking at stats? Because you cant possibly watch Dinwiddie and think all he does is get you points. He is a fantastic playmaker for others. He gets to the line and helps you get into the bonus. He is a terrific leader.

Guys arent just their stats on basketball reference. If you dont have time to watch the 29 other teams a ton, that is fine. But I hate this new world we are in where if we have access to a guys stats, we think we can give an informed evaluation of them as a player. Its so clear when I see people who dont watch and just use stats to guide their opinion.

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Yea Jackson Frank did a great deep dive in the article I mentioned above. He's a very well rounded player. And his defense was improving prior to the injury

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Are you just looking at stats? Because you cant possibly watch Dinwiddie and think all he does is get you points. He is a fantastic playmaker for others. He gets to the line and helps you get into the bonus. He is a terrific leader.

Guys arent just their stats on basketball reference. If you dont have time to watch the 29 other teams a ton, that is fine. But I hate this new world we are in where if we have access to a guys stats, we think we can give an informed evaluation of them as a player. Its so clear when I see people who dont watch and just use stats to guide their opinion.

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I've seen dinwiddie play. Two people can watch a guy play an come to different opinions. If you're comfortable handing the keys to him and paying 20 mil a season that's fine. I would disagree.

I think Din is better than Graham for sure and probably Lonzo too. But he's just a guy. If they're looking for the Chris Paul type to turn the team around, he aint it.

FWIW I don't like guys who play out of isolation a lot as starters unless they're allstar level talents.

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Originally Posted by pelafanatic

Yea Jackson Frank did a great deep dive in the article I mentioned above. He's a very well rounded player. And his defense was improving prior to the injury

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I think with Dinwiddie the injury is something that you have to factor in huge.

It's one thing to think you'd offer big money to Dinwiddie circa 2019-20, when we last saw him healthy. That's something we could debate, and I wouldn't offer him huge cash but it's a discussion. But that is not the person you'd be paying to bring on board now. To be willing to pay Dinwiddie serious money now you have to take a gamble that he's going to come back at at least 85% of himself, and continue the improvements he was showing beforehand. That's a huge gamble. Maybe it's one you're comfortable taking: I'm not.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I think with Dinwiddie the injury is something that you have to factor in huge.

It's one thing to think you'd offer big money to Dinwiddie circa 2019-20, when we last saw him healthy. That's something we could debate, and I wouldn't offer him huge cash but it's a discussion. But that is not the person you'd be paying to bring on board now. To be willing to pay Dinwiddie serious money now you have to take a gamble that he's going to come back at at least 85% of himself, and continue the improvements he was showing beforehand. That's a huge gamble. Maybe it's one you're comfortable taking: I'm not.

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It was a partially torn ACL. Not like he blew out his knee or anything

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Originally Posted by pelafanatic

It was a partially torn ACL. Not like he blew out his knee or anything

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He needed surgery and missed an entire season. That is serious.