Who should become the first person to be drafted to the pelicans?

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Originally Posted by kclaboy504

Dude not sure what part your missing. Check my first post where I said he is much better rebounder. Then get back to me.

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And compare their defensive rating as well and see who is better. Your raw numbers don't tell the whole story.

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Originally Posted by UNO Gracias

But pg isn't the issue for our losses. Poor team defense, poor coaching, and bad times for injuries are.

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Poor team defense has been caused by our starting pg not being able to keep his man in front him. Do u deny that also??

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Originally Posted by Pelicans78

And compare their defensive rating as well and see who is better. Your raw numbers don't tell the whole story.

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Dude I already said he was better defensively and rebounding. Your beating a dead horse.

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Originally Posted by kclaboy504

Idc what u put out there dude. Mathews is not the better player. Sorry just ain't. I already said he's had a bad season. Even with his bad season he is still better than Gordon. Basic stats,advanced stats.they are all just stats either way u slice it. Do u wanna only use the stats that best fit your side of the argument??

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No. But basic stats don't tell the whole story. Gordon averages more points per game because he shoots way more. So your stats are clearly misleading. You may fool other people, but you're not fooling me. Matthews has performed better this season because Gordon has clearly sucked ***.

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Originally Posted by kclaboy504

Dude I already said he was better defensively and rebounding. Your beating a dead horse.

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So he's better defensively and rebounding and just as good offensively if not better yet he's only slightly better. Makes sense to me.

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Originally Posted by Pelicans78

No. But basic stats don't tell the whole story. Gordon averages more points per game because he shoots way more. So your stats are clearly misleading. You may fool other people, but you're not fooling me. Matthews has performed better this season because Gordon has clearly sucked ***.

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So can u please show me where I said Gordon has had a good season?? Don't worry I'll wait. My statement was Gordon is better than Mathews. Your getting off topic now.

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Originally Posted by Pelicans78

So he's better defensively and rebounding and just as good offensively if not better yet he's only slightly better. Makes sense to me.

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Dude Hickson makes 4m a year for a reason ok?? You a nba gm?? Yea didn't think so

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Originally Posted by Pelicans78

No. But basic stats don't tell the whole story. Gordon averages more points per game because he shoots way more. So your stats are clearly misleading. You may fool other people, but you're not fooling me. Matthews has performed better this season because Gordon has clearly sucked ***.

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So please tell me about this awesome season Mathews has had.

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Originally Posted by kclaboy504

Poor team defense has been caused by our starting pg not being able to keep his man in front him. Do u deny that also??

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I agree with you here. Vasquez sucks to be honest. He's slow dribbling the ball, he's slow passing the ball, and he's slow defending his man. He's a big part of the problem. Replacing him will be a big step. Same with Aminu. Lopez has been fine overall as a starter.

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Originally Posted by kclaboy504

Dude Hickson makes 4m a year for a reason ok?? You a nba gm?? Yea didn't think so

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And Lopez makes only 5. Basically Portland got him with great value. But that's another poor argument on your part.

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Originally Posted by kclaboy504

So please tell me about this awesome season Mathews has had.

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I didn't say he was awesome. Just a better season than Gordon which isn't saying much since Gordon has been terrible.

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Originally Posted by Pelicans78

I agree with you here. Vasquez sucks to be honest. He's slow dribbling the ball, he's slow passing the ball, and he's slow defending his man. He's a big part of the problem. Replacing him will be a big step. Same with Aminu. Lopez has been fine overall as a starter.

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Would u not call Lopez an avg center?? I think he is. What is Hickson?? He def is not a top guy in this league. So yes he is slightly better than Lopez. Your trying to make it seem this guy is Dwight Howard compared to Lopez. He is slightly better than lopez. It's not a knock on him but that's what he is.

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Originally Posted by Pelicans78

I didn't say he was awesome. Just a better season than Gordon which isn't saying much since Gordon has been terrible.

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:hihi:....exactly my point and what I've said several times.

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Originally Posted by kclaboy504

Would u not call Lopez an avg center?? I think he is. What is Hickson?? He def is not a top guy in this league. So yes he is slightly better than Lopez. Your trying to make it seem this guy is Dwight Howard compared to Lopez. He is slightly better than lopez. It's not a knock on him but that's what he is.

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Lopez is probably average and Hickson is a good center.

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Originally Posted by Pelicans78

And Lopez makes only 5. Basically Portland got him with great value. But that's another poor argument on your part.

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No it's not. So did he take some kind of hometown discount or something?? Am I missing something? He doesn't get paid like a top center cause he isn't one. That's all I'm saying. Neither is Lopez. They are both in that middle tier of guys. Neither one being in the upper echelon. Sheesh

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Originally Posted by kclaboy504

:hihi:....exactly my point and what I've said several times.

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No, you said Gordon was having a better season.

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Originally Posted by Pelicans78

Lopez is probably average and Hickson is a good center.

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So that would make him slightly better man!!! My goodness lol

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Originally Posted by Pelicans78

No, you said Gordon was having a better season.

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When I said that's what I've said I meant Gordon having a horrible season. Yes I did say he has had a bad season.

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Originally Posted by kclaboy504

So that would make him slightly better man!!! My goodness lol

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No. Above average is slightly better.

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Originally Posted by kclaboy504

No it's not. So did he take some kind of hometown discount or something?? Am I missing something? He doesn't get paid like a top center cause he isn't one. That's all I'm saying. Neither is Lopez. They are both in that middle tier of guys. Neither one being in the upper echelon. Sheesh

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No. He came off a season where he was waived by the Kings and signed with Portland late in the season so he didn't have a lot of leverage. Guarantee you he will get much more than 4 million this offseason and more than Lopez.

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Originally Posted by Pelicans78

No, you said Gordon was having a better season.

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Gordon's having a bad season also by his standards and what we expect from him. This is a dead subject anyways cause it was a simp,e as who was the better player not who had a better season. Gordon is the better player. Bottom line. Not really a good argument to claim Mathews having a better season on this down year Gordon is having to deal with. I mean seriously?? Gordon Was able to get a max contract for a reason. Mathews will NEVER be up for one. For one reason. Gordon is better player.

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Originally Posted by kclaboy504

When I said that's what I've said I meant Gordon having a horrible season. Yes I did say he has had a bad season.

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But you kept saying Gordon was better than Matthews this season which is not the case.

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Originally Posted by Pelicans78

No. He came off a season where he was waived by the Kings and signed with Portland late in the season so he didn't have a lot of leverage. Guarantee you he will get much more than 4 million this offseason and more than Lopez.

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I bet he will to. I bet he don't get paid as a top center tho. I bet he gets paid in that middle tier of guys. Like is said he was this whole time. Not sure what we are arguing back n forth about. Seriously. You bored?? I am :hihi:

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Originally Posted by Pelicans78

But you kept saying Gordon was better than Matthews this season which is not the case.

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No no u don't!!! Lol..I said Gordon is the better player than Mathews and that's when u chimed in and claimed otherwise. Then the this season argument started. I just threw out their ppg rpg apg stats for this year. Simply showing that even on a down year with him cause of all he's going thru with injury n all that his numbers are still up to par with Mathews that's all.

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Originally Posted by Pelicans78

No. Above average is slightly better.

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:hihi: ok u win!! If u think Hickson is head n shoulders above n better than Lopez that's your opinion.

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Originally Posted by kclaboy504

No no u don't!!! Lol..I said Gordon is the better player than Mathews and that's when u chimed in and claimed otherwise. Then the this season argument started. I just threw out their ppg rpg apg stats for this year. Simply showing that even on a down year with him cause of all he's going thru with injury n all that his numbers are still up to par with Mathews that's all.

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No, this whole argument was about this season since you think we were a quality PG away from competing for the 8th seed which is why I was using this season's argument. Replacing Vasquez with Lillard wouldn't have made this team better than Portland's. This was the whole argument. Anyone knows Gordon is a better talent, but Matthews has been better this season.

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Originally Posted by Pelicans78

No, this whole argument was about this season since you think we were a quality PG away from competing for the 8th seed which is why I was using this season's argument. Replacing Vasquez with Lillard wouldn't have made this team better than Portland's. This was the whole argument. Anyone knows Gordon is a better talent, but Matthews has been better this season.

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No if u go back new where I started posting. Someone said Portland was better than us 1-5. I then said Gordon was better than Mathews so that ain't true. You then came in on that post saying Matthews was better. The. Pointed out he is having the better season also. My op was Gordon is better than Mathews.

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Originally Posted by kclaboy504

I dont think Portland is better than us 1-5 either. That's going a lil too far IMO. I'll just start with mathews. Idc how injured Gordon is Mathews is not better than him. Hickson and Lopez are about even IMO. He might be a little better defensively. Portland bench is horrible. You need more than 1-5 to be a playoff team. I like our bench much better than portlands.

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This is where I started posting at about this dude. This was my original statement. I'm not delusional dude.

I was responding to ball so hard on the Portland being better than us1-5. I said gordon was better than Mathews. Then u came in and brought up this season. We are talking about players vs players on each team. Not just this season in particular. I understand you and I have now got into the this season discussion. Like I said before even with Gordon having a down year cause of Injury. His numbers are still right there with Mathews. Yea Mathews was more efficient this year. Your making it seem as tho if u compare the 2 guys seasons. There would be this big discrepancy between the 2.

Also on the bench argument. U said only Anderson is good on our bech. Not true. Give me roberts rivers miller Ryno and smith over blazers bench any day.

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Originally Posted by kclaboy504

Poor team defense has been caused by our starting pg not being able to keep his man in front him. Do u deny that also??

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No denying it. No denying that our team sucks at def in general though. Starting pg, backup pg, starters, bench...def is our calling card, but nobody respects us as a whole.

Can we talk about draft picks again. What u guys think about oladipo game last night. Today will be Burke and Mclemore on same court. Should be interesting.

Oladipo was Indianas only player that played well. Unfortunately he wasn't a threat from long distance and the Syracuse 2-3 zone was able to play inside the three point arc because no one on IU could shoot. Oladipo did shoot one 3pt and made it, but you can tell it's not his comfort. MCW played like a man on a mission, but like Oladipo not a good outside shooter.

As much as I can appreciate Oladipo as a player, I don't really want him. He reminds me to Aminu too much. Not saying he won't be a good NBA player, just that I think there's more talented people in the draft I would prefer. Now say we could trade back a few spots + toss in Gravy for a late lottery and early teen picks and Oladipo and McC. That I could live with.

People really can't see past their own faces when coming up with comparisons sometimes.

I mean, even if Oladipo if is similar or reminding you of Aminu, even though he's like 5 inches shorter, 20 pounds lighter, plays a completely different position. Has competent ball handling ability, and is quicker and more explosive. He isn't Aminu. Aminu is Aminu. Oladipo's development as an NBA player won't be exactly the same.

It could be worse. It could be leaps and bounds better.

On another matter. Didn't see the game, but I know that when Oladipo plays with Indiana he doesn't take a lot of 3s period. He's only taken 68 all season compared to Hulls and Watford who have taken 179 and 125 respectively. And I've seen too many players develop a useable 3 point shot to really worry about his comfort.

Basically, what I'm saying is Oladipo remains a desirable future Pelican.

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

People really can't see past their own faces when coming up with comparisons sometimes.

I mean, even if Oladipo if is similar or reminding you of Aminu, even though he's like 5 inches shorter, 20 pounds lighter, plays a completely different position. Has competent ball handling ability, and is quicker and more explosive. He isn't Aminu. Aminu is Aminu. Oladipo's development as an NBA player won't be exactly the same.

It could be worse. It could be leaps and bounds better.

On another matter. Didn't see the game, but I know that when Oladipo plays with Indiana he doesn't take a lot of 3s period. He's only taken 68 all season compared to Hulls and Watford who have taken 179 and 125 respectively. And I've seen too many players develop a useable 3 point shot to really worry about his comfort.

Basically, what I'm saying is Oladipo remains a desirable future Pelican.

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I didn't mean physically. I meant play style. Both are players who are defense first, hard fighting rebound / put back scorer type of players. Neither have great range on their shot and get most of their points in the paint.

My fear is that Oladipo doesn't give us what we need which is someone at can stretch the defense. How could you play him? At SG with EG as point? So the lineup would be EG, Oladipo, Aminu, Anderson, Davis? I don't really see that working. Not thatim saying he's gonna be a bust, just I think there are plenty of other people I would prefer on the Hornets/Pels.

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Originally Posted by Shelbywmccarty

Can we talk about draft picks again. What u guys think about oladipo game last night. Today will be Burke and Mclemore on same court. Should be interesting.

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B-MAC will do absolutely nothing, and it will drive me crazy.

Nah. Don't really see Aminu getting to the rim or being able to start and finish fast breaks on his own.

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

Nah. Don't really see Aminu getting to the rim or being able to start and finish fast breaks on his own.

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Looks like he did fine in college with getting to the basket, starting the FB or finishing it. Just saying comparing what a guy can't do to the NBA to what a guy can do in college isn't apples to apples here.

If you're at work you're going to want to turn the speakers off.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-h48-tEhgw

Not to mention that Aminu will be going into his fourth year next year and Oladipo will be going into his first with similar ages. Oladipo- 21. AFA- 22

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Originally Posted by BallSoHard

Looks like he did fine in college with getting to the basket, starting the FB or finishing it. Just saying comparing what a guy can't do to the NBA to what a guy can do in college isn't apples to apples here.

If you're at work you're going to want to turn the speakers off.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-h48-tEhgw

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Highlights mean little for me. I didn't watch Aminu in college. I have watched Oladipo. I've seen enough to know he's more athletic than Aminu, quicker, faster. He'll get out in transition and finish. Aminu gets out in transition and catches passes because if he tried to do it himself, he'd probably dribble the ball off his foot.

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

Highlights mean little for me. I didn't watch Aminu in college. I have watched Oladipo. I've seen enough to know he's more athletic than Aminu, quicker, faster. He'll get out in transition and finish. Aminu gets out in transition and catches passes because if he tried to do it himself, he'd probably dribble the ball off his foot.

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All of that still doesn't refute my point that its not apples to apples comparing what you've seen from Aminu in the nba versus Oladipo in college. The video shows all the same things you said about Oladipo against college foes and Aminu versus college foes. Apples to apples.

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

Highlights mean little for me. I didn't watch Aminu in college. I have watched Oladipo. I've seen enough to know he's more athletic than Aminu, quicker, faster. He'll get out in transition and finish. Aminu gets out in transition and catches passes because if he tried to do it himself, he'd probably dribble the ball off his foot.

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Even if we were to agree that this was true, which I don't know that I believe because I thought the whole positive of Aminu was how athletic he was. . .that still doesn't answer how Oladipo will stretch the floor in the NBA. What upside does Oladipo have over Aminu (I am saying Aminu because how else does he fit on our team if he's not going to play SF) that makes it worth taking him as an upgrade? I see a very good, defensive player who still can't stretch the floor and has played multiple years of college ball to further develop. However I see far better players out there which might not be as good on defense but can stretch the floor and create shots for themselves.

I'm not going to knock Oladipo because I like him. I watched him get asked to guard Burke and shut him down while he was guarding him. I just think at our spot 6ish or higher he wouldn't be BPA nor as good of a fit for us as other players.

I would very much like your lineup idea if we took Oladipo for us. Is your idea that we trade Gordon and start Oladipo at SG? We already complain about needing more people to create shots.

Oladipo has a Jet engine while Aminu has a lawn mower motor that sometimes acts up every now and then. That's the difference lol

Aminu 33.5" vert. I wouldn't consider some super athlete.

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Originally Posted by BallSoHard

All of that still doesn't refute my point that its not apples to apples comparing what you've seen from Aminu in the nba versus Oladipo in college. The video shows all the same things you said about Oladipo against college foes and Aminu versus college foes. Apples to apples.

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More like a picked apple with a bruise on it to an unripened apple still on the tree.

You know where Aminu is. And I don't know if he'll ever grow. Oladipo still has potential for the simple fact that he isn't in the NBA. And it's still a difference in levels of athleticism. Oladipo is smaller, quicker, and faster than Aminu and will be guarding completely different players. It changes the whole dynamic of the transition from college to pro.

So it isn't even apples to apples, actually.

It's tangerines to oranges.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

Even if we were to agree that this was true, which I don't know that I believe because I thought the whole positive of Aminu was how athletic he was. . .that still doesn't answer how Oladipo will stretch the floor in the NBA. What upside does Oladipo have over Aminu (I am saying Aminu because how else does he fit on our team if he's not going to play SF) that makes it worth taking him as an upgrade? I see a very good, defensive player who still can't stretch the floor and has played multiple years of college ball to further develop. However I see far better players out there which might not be as good on defense but can stretch the floor and create shots for themselves.

I'm not going to knock Oladipo because I like him. I watched him get asked to guard Burke and shut him down while he was guarding him. I just think at our spot 6ish or higher he wouldn't be BPA nor as good of a fit for us as other players.

I would very much like your lineup idea if we took Oladipo for us. Is your idea that we trade Gordon and start Oladipo at SG? We already complain about needing more people to create shots.

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The assumption is that Oladipo can't shoot from deep. Even though, he's shown that he can shoot a good percentage overall. (But because he didn't look "comfortable" he has no range? I don't know.) People don't trust it. Whatever. But the whole point of drafting someone is because you have to assume they'll become even better.

I don't care about lineups. I don't care about positions of need. You take the best player available and go from there. Small ball lineups. Bring him off the bench until he improves his jumper. Whatever the plan becomes, you take the best guy on the board. If that's Oladipo, then that's who I want. The rest will sort itself out.

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

More like a picked apple with a bruise on it to an unripened apple still on the tree.

You know where Aminu is. And I don't know if he'll ever grow. Oladipo still has potential for the simple fact that he isn't in the NBA. And it's still a difference in levels of athleticism. Oladipo is smaller, quicker, and faster than Aminu and will be guarding completely different players. It changes the whole dynamic of the transition from college to pro.

So it isn't even apples to apples, actually.

It's tangerines to oranges.

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Lol. Right.

If we land any of noel, bazz, porter, oladipo or burke i will be happy
but im really liking oladipo!

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

More like a picked apple with a bruise on it to an unripened apple still on the tree.

You know where Aminu is. And I don't know if he'll ever grow. Oladipo still has potential for the simple fact that he isn't in the NBA. And it's still a difference in levels of athleticism. Oladipo is smaller, quicker, and faster than Aminu and will be guarding completely different players. It changes the whole dynamic of the transition from college to pro.

So it isn't even apples to apples, actually.

It's tangerines to oranges.



The assumption is that Oladipo can't shoot from deep. Even though, he's shown that he can shoot a good percentage overall. (But because he didn't look "comfortable" he has no range? I don't know.) People don't trust it. Whatever. But the whole point of drafting someone is because you have to assume they'll become even better.

I don't care about lineups. I don't care about positions of need. You take the best player available and go from there. Small ball lineups. Bring him off the bench until he improves his jumper. Whatever the plan becomes, you take the best guy on the board. If that's Oladipo, then that's who I want. The rest will sort itself out.

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Agree, I love oladipo, he could get minutes at SF and SG with gordon running the point at some times.

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

If we land any of noel, bazz, porter, oladipo or burke i will be happy
but im really liking oladipo!

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You love someone different every week!!!! :hihi: