AD trade scenarios...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

What other assets?

I like McCollum a lot, he's a legit baller. There's no doubt about that. He'd play well with Jrue, and he'd provide some much needed spacing. But what else do they have? He's not good enough for a 1-to-1 swap.

They have the #25 pick in this year's draft. That's it, not even a 2nd rounder.

They have their pick next year, but it would be just as bad, with the addition of AD. They don't own anyone else's picks. They don't have a glut of good cheap talent. What's the ''other assets'' in this deal?

---

Collins.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by msusousaphone

This board in 2007: "Rondo is a bum. He can't shoot 3s. He will never amount to anything and he will never win championships. He would be an awful 4th asset in a trade."

There is so much more to basketball than shooting, fellas.

But.....and this is a secret.....Ball shoots the three better than young Rondo.

---

Basketball has changed A LOT in 12 years.

Portland is the darkhorse team. Here is there plan according to a Western Conf exec:

So, they trade for AD, using CJ (& others) and sign Lillard to an extension this summer. They try to convince AD to stay like OKC w/ PG, Tor w/ Kawhi. If they do, awesome. If not, they put

— Elite Bored (@BallThen) June 10, 2019

Lillard on the block and go full rebuild.

Right now, they can offer CJ and Collins, and apparently they are offering some expiring contracts for worse contracts and getting picks to add to the package (think E. Turner for Batum, #12, 36, and future 2nds).

— Elite Bored (@BallThen) June 10, 2019

I guess, best case scenario for Pels is you get something like CJ, Collins, Harkless, #12, 26, and a future 1st for AD and Solo.

I dont hate it.

— Elite Bored (@BallThen) June 10, 2019

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

You're right, Rondo couldn't shoot early in his career. Couldn't shoot at all! But do you know who could?

Paul Pierce, and Ray Allen! Who both started on that team with Rondo, where he won all those games and that ring. You know, the Paul Pierce who shot 39.2% and the Ray Allen who shot 39.8% from deep in 2008, when they won that ring?

Now it's 2019, not 2008, and three point shooting is even more important now than it was then. And since we don't have anyone who is a sharpshooter in our current lineup aside from, I guess E'twaun, and we're about to have Zion, who can't shoot, join the team, it's important to add some shooters.

Look at the top teams in the league. Golden State: multiple elite shooters. Raptors: Kawhi, Gasol, Green, Powell, and Vanvleet all shot at least 37% from three. Portland: Lillard, McCollum, Seth Curry, Myers Leonard all shot at least 36% from three. Milwaukee: Brogdon, Snell, Middleton, Lopez, all shooting at least 36% from three, logging heavy minutes.

It's almost as if good teams in 2019 have good shooters on them. Absolutely crazy.

---

Lol.

So if it involves drafting Garland, you don't like him so the logic is 'the team isn't winning now and it should take a season or two to find all of its pieces'.

If it involves Ball the logic 180s to points surrounding our current team.....like we suddenly don't have a few offseasons to focus on getting shooters.

If it was Lillard over McC I'd do it pretty much straight up. I loved McC coming out of college and still like his game but I can't do him straight up for AD with basically nothing else from Portland.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by msusousaphone

Lol.

So if it involves drafting Garland, you don't like him so the logic is 'the team isn't winning now and it should take a season or two to find all of its pieces'.

If it involves Ball the logic 180s to points surrounding our current team.....like we suddenly don't have a few offseasons to focus on getting shooters.

---

:rolleyes:

If you draft Garland, I don't like him that much because he's a one dimensional guard with questionable skills. We shouldn't spend that pick, if we have it, on Garland because it's very likely a better, more well-rounded guard will be available next year.

If you trade for Ball, I don't like him that much because he's a one dimensional guard with absolutely zero offense of his own. We shouldn't spend our best asset (AD) on him, because it's likely we can get a better, more well-rounded set of players with that trade than Ball.


We have offseasons to focus on shooters. Sure, even if we take Ball, Ingram, and Kuzma. My question is, where do the shooters fit with them? Do you have them all starting, in which case there's no shooting in that starting 5. Or do you have, say, Ball and Ingram coming off the bench, in which case, congrats you just traded your most valuable asset in franchise history for some mediocre bench players.

Come on, man. You're reading everything on exactly 1 level, in the least generous possible way.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mythrol

Basketball has changed A LOT in 12 years.

---

And, like I said, adding Rondo to that team wasn't the end of the world because they already had multiple sharpshooters in that lineup. We don't have any such thing: we'd be adding poor shooting to poor shooting.

I'm not hot on Collins, really. I know he's only young but still.

#12 is a decent piece, there will be some decent players available around there.

#26 is a more-or-less meaningless to me. There are players I wouldn't mind drafting at that spot, but the odds that Griff and co. would choose those particularly names is miniscule.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I'm not hot on Collins, really. I know he's only young but still.

#12 is a decent piece, there will be some decent players available around there.

#26 is a more-or-less meaningless to me. There are players I wouldn't mind drafting at that spot, but the odds that Griff and co. would choose those particularly names is miniscule.

---

Honestly, I think it's your verbiage that gets people going. I know you hate the word by now, but it is the hyperboles, and absolutes, or any time people write like this like they have the scouts licked......it makes me have to poke at it.

But anyways, Collins is less inspiring than Ball. McCollum would be great. Amazing really. He doesn't play great with Jrue offensively. We'd be back to juat good PG Jrue as opposed to borderline all-star SG Jrue.

I doubt this is the best offer but it does make me wonder if the other deals involve less of the assets than we assumed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by msusousaphone

Honestly, I think it's your verbiage that gets people going.

But anyways, Collins is less inspiring than Ball. McCollum would be great. Amazing really. He doesn't play great with Jrue offensively. We'd be back to juat good PG Jrue as opposed to borderline all-star SG Jrue.

I doubt this is the best offer but it does make me wonder if the other deals involve less of the assets than we assumed.

---

I didn't mean to imply that Griff is less capable than me or anything, just that at around that point in the draft, there's a lot of debate rather than clear-cut best players, so any name you pick probably wouldn't end up being the choice the team makes.

I don't necessarily think that Jrue needs to be at the SG position to do his thing. He just needs to be given the opportunity to play off ball a decent amount of the time, and play off other ball-handlers. McCollum and Zion would provide that.

The Portland deal is not better than Boston offering Tatum, Smart, Williams, 2019 #14, #20, and Memphis 2020 1st.

MM was saying the Blazers would do a deal with a third team first in order to acquire draft picks. For example, swallowing Batum for expirings in order to pull a first rounder back (to get AD).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Primetime

MM was saying the Blazers would do a deal with a third team first in order to acquire draft picks. For example, swallowing Batum for expirings in order to pull a first rounder back (to get AD).

---

Yeah, I think that's where the proposed #12 pick comes from, those other deals. Cause they don't picks of their own, really.

Would Portland be willing to take back salary like that though? They're already over the cap by a ton, I think. Their repeater tax would be murderous for a team that's not winning anything.

For next season, looks like they’re near tax line so that’ll be the case if they do or don’t trade. The following season however, they only have 76mil on the books. So this seems possible.

I think the bigger question is whether Pels would legit entertain pulling a McCollum level player and less draft picks. For Portland, that’s an auto title contender so it’s worth it to them. If they miss, they lost McCollum; not the end of the world.

Remember the source. He has never broken any news but has whiffed on pretty much everything he's predicted.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Darkhorse985

The Portland deal is not better than Boston offering Tatum, Smart, Williams, 2019 #14, #20, and Memphis 2020 1st.

---

Almost nothing is better than that. I can't recall anything, at least.

But that's why it's safe to assume that Boston isn't currently offering that or the deal would have been leaked.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by msusousaphone

Remember the source. He has never broken any news but has whiffed on pretty much everything he's predicted.

---

Very true, but at least it's something new to talk about.

Kinda depressing new.

Tatum vs McCollum straight up....who are you taking?

I go Tatum in an easy one.

So then Brown or the Memphis 2020 vs anything else Portland can offer?

I go Brown or the Memphis pick.

So even the Celtics just offering Tatum and Brown is better, IMO, than anything Portland can offer.

But if there is ANY truth to this, I suppose it is that any new team getting involved improves our position.

For what we need, McCollum may be better. Tatum struggled hard last year, and we are going to need scoring, preferably from the perimeter, preferably from someone who can create own shot. That would be McCollum. Throw in contracts though and yea, Tatum is preferable.

Age factors in a lot for me. McCollum pretty much is what he is. Tatum is 6 1/2 years younger.

This is probably biased from Pelicans fan PTSD, but oh to have a starting caliber SF, again, too.....whereas McCollum is 6'3". So the "wings being harder to find than SGs" factor is huge to me. It's like, if we got Tatum, I would resign Elfrid and be happy. If we get McCollum, we would still be desperate for a wing.

"While the Nets are in talks with New Orleans, there's reluctance around the organization because they don't want to move young, foundational pieces for a potential one-year rental, namely players like LeVert and/or Jarrett Allen." https://t.co/sGr2kyiS7c

— pickuphoop (@pickuphoop) June 10, 2019

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by msusousaphone

Age factors in a lot for me. McCollum pretty much is what he is. Tatum is 6 1/2 years younger.

This is probably biased from Pelicans fan PTSD, but oh to have a starting caliber SF, again, too.....whereas McCollum is 6'3". So the "wings being harder to find than SGs" factor is huge to me. It's like, if we got Tatum, I would resign Elfrid and be happy. If we get McCollum, we would still be desperate for a wing.

---

Agree on this.

Plus, while we are going to need scoring from the perimeter, Tatum was 16ppg and 37% from three, which is still pretty good especially for a guy who's so much younger. And like you said, he's a small forward. We haven't had a solid small forward for like... forever

McColl will be 28 in a few months. That timeline seems a bit short-sighted to me?

There’s also the issue of potentially having to pay that next contract. I’m not in on it. A max or near max starting at age 30 for an undersized borderline all-star SG? No way that ends well.

As some reports have teams dropping out of the AD sweepstakes, I expect more reports like the one about the Blazers of “dark horse” teams going after AD. I take all of this with a grain of salt.

IMO, it’s Lakers, Knicks, or Celtics. Just like it’s always been.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

As some reports have teams dropping out of the AD sweepstakes, I expect more reports like the one about the Blazers of “dark horse” teams going after AD. I take all of this with a grain of salt.

IMO, it’s Lakers, Knicks, or Celtics. Just like it’s always been.

---

I think you are right.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by donato

McColl will be 28 in a few months. That timeline seems a bit short-sighted to me?

---

I agree. In our current stage of development, we shouldn't lean too much on experience and understand we are taking the long road here and building a young core for a sustainable future.

To be clear these aren't "reports" being leaked to the national media.

Lebron best friend posted AD going to LA and LA gets to keep Kuz . He supposedly broke Lebron to LA and his tweet was on espn when he broke it so there may be something to it then again there may not


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MistaWhoDat

Lebron best friend posted AD going to LA and LA gets to keep Kuz . He supposedly broke Lebron to LA and his tweet was on espn when he broke it so there may be something to it then again there may not


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

Lebron to LA was hardly a secret. I’d take it with a million grains of salt.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JJackisangry

Lebron to LA was hardly a secret. I’d take it with a million grains of salt.

---

Agreed. I think about ten different people on this board alone predicted LeBron to LA, with no inside sources.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MistaWhoDat

Lebron best friend posted AD going to LA and LA gets to keep Kuz . He supposedly broke Lebron to LA and his tweet was on espn when he broke it so there may be something to it then again there may not


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

Tweet came out today? Who is his best friend?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

Tweet came out today? Who is his best friend?

---

Just the messenger I’m not believing anything until it’s reported officially
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...58d774d541.jpg

Clearly if they are getting AD and keeping Kuzma they must have traded Lebron.

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1...585491968?s=19

Griff is telling teams what he wants for AD and will most likely require multiple teams.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mythrol

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1...585491968?s=19

Griff is telling teams what he wants for AD and will most likely require multiple teams.

---

Quote from the article:

"Griffin is pursuing a combination of assets that include an All-Star player, a young player with All-Star potential and two first-round picks, league sources said. Those wants are on a sliding scale. For example, the better the player, the softer the asks on the draft picks -- and vice versa."

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...mpression=true

This entire read is a good update on the situation. A few key things is, Griff wants the trade agreed to days before the draft so they have time to interview and examine players before hand.

He's looking for an all star player, a young potential all star player, and two picks. Depending on who the players are changes how much he demands of the picks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Quote from the article:

"Griffin is pursuing a combination of assets that include an All-Star player, a young player with All-Star potential and two first-round picks, league sources said. Those wants are on a sliding scale. For example, the better the player, the softer the asks on the draft picks -- and vice versa."

---

Interesting. If true, Griffin wants BIG pieces instead of multiple potential pieces, so maybe he is aiming towards the Beals and Russels to add to a Tatum, Robinson, Ingram/Ball etc. It would mean he isn’t concerned about taking on a big contract earlier than expected. Not sure how I feel about that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mythrol

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...mpression=true

This entire read is a good update on the situation. A few key things is, Griff wants the trade agreed to days before the draft so they have time to interview and examine players before hand.

He's looking for an all star player, a young potential all star player, and two picks. Depending on who the players are changes how much he demands of the picks.

---

Who can actually meet that offer? Boston appears to be the most likely RIGHT NOW with Tatum + Brown + 2 Picks. Others:

Brooklyn sign and trade with DLO + Levert + 2 picks
Phoenix with Booker + (they have several nice young guys) + 2 picks
Minny with Towns + no idea + 2 picks

Based on the preferred destinations, no one has that (which is why Griff said a 3rd party is likely needed). Outside of the preferred destinations, that's a steep price for a potential rental.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dsabis29

Who can actually meet that offer? Boston appears to be the most likely RIGHT NOW with Tatum + Brown + 2 Picks. Others:

Brooklyn sign and trade with DLO + Levert + 2 picks
Phoenix with Booker + (they have several nice young guys) + 2 picks
Minny with Towns + no idea + 2 picks

Based on the preferred destinations, no one has that (which is why Griff said a 3rd party is likely needed). Outside of the preferred destinations, that's a steep price for a potential rental.

---

It is a steep price, but you get what you pay for.

You want a healthy top five player in his prime? You pay for it.

Inb4 Memphis decides to try and make a last minute career run with Conley and AD, inspired by the hope that KD will be leaving Golden State, and offers us #2, Jaren Jackson Jr, their 2020 FRP, and salary filler.

Well that would be Ball (all-star), Ingram (all-star potential), and then draft picks. Even with no Kuzma....both stories check out.

Also, if I go missing.....Dae did it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by msusousaphone

Well that would be Ball (all-star), Ingram (all-star potential), and then draft picks. Even with no Kuzma....both stories check out.

Also, if I go missing.....Dae did it.

---

I'm going to club you to death and claim temporary insanity.

Edit: the sad thing is, someone is gonna come in and claim that your proposed troll-deal actually fits the requirements, and argue that Ball IS an all-star.

Haha. That IS how rumors get started.

But this all seems natural. The rumors have all been lower than we had hoped. Teams were sending in low ball offers. Now we are throwing out our lofty goals. After a day or two, negotiations happen and usually something in the middle emerges....my guess is on draft. I have no inside knowledge...this is just the standard for large scale negotiations.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by msusousaphone

The rumors have all been lower than we had hoped. Teams were sending in low ball offers. Now we are throwing out our lofty goals. After a day or two, negotiations happen and usually something in the middle emerges....my guess is on draft. I have no inside knowledge...this is just the standard for large scale negotiations.

---

I'm not sure if the offers have been lower than we thought. Some of them have been okay.

But I agree, this is a purposefully high-ball requirement mark. This is how haggling works. You show up to the table and say you want the World, they offer you Barcelona, and you settle on the Iberian Peninsula.


...that's a weird one, but you get what I mean.

It’s entirely plausible for certain teams. Boston could part ways with Brown/Smart and their picks to acquire someone to pair along with Tatum. The Lakers could do the same by parting ways with Kuzma and one of Ball/Ingram and the pick to pair with the former. The Knicks have probably the most realistic chance of acquiring someone to pair with Robinson/Barrett as they are stockpiled with picks. It all depends on what the team with said all star is valuing their player for. A three team deal is very in the realm of possibility.

If Griffin wants it done days before the draft then teams better hurry up lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I feel I should add that it is obviously a big price. Haggling usually starts with a high price as others have said

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JJackisangry

It’s entirely plausible for certain teams. Boston could part ways with Brown/Smart and their picks to acquire someone to pair along with Tatum. The Lakers could do the same by parting ways with Kuzma and one of Ball/Ingram to pair with the former. The Knicks have probably the most realistic chance of acquiring someone to pair with Robinson/Barrett as they are stockpiled with picks. It all depends on what the team with said all star is valuing their player for. A three team deal is very in the realm of possibility.

---

Completely agree.

Boston could package, say, Brown + the 22nd pick for a solid player, and send us Tatum + That Player + #14, #22, and the Memphis pick.

LA could possibly make some moves and maybe acquire a good player. If you believe in Ingram, then Ingram + That Player + #4 + Future LA Picks could work.

NYC could move Trier/Knox+ Dallas picks for another decent player (maybe not a fringe all-star but a good roleplayer) and send us Robinson + That Player + 2019 #3 pick + Future NYC picks

Obviously if Phoenix was interested (which I doubt) they could always offer Ayton + Warren + Future picks

Atlanta could run with John Collins + some player + Picks (they have multiple this year, and future picks available).

Trying to meet Griff's requirements of an All Star, Potential All Star, and Draft Picks with this one...
Trade of the Day

Lakers
Anthony Davis
Reggie Jackson
E'Twaun Moore

Pistons
Solomon Hill
Lonzo Ball

Pelicans
Blake Griffin
Brandon Ingram
Josh Hart
#4
2021 1st from Lakers


Blake's got a huge contract and the Pistons aren't going anywhere. Griff is also looking for an All Star, and he's one of the only All Stars that I could see being easily available. This is a chance for the Pistons to get off a TON of money, start their rebuild, and reset around Lonzo, Luke Kennard, and a LOT of cap space.

The Lakers do whatever it takes to get AD, but they also get two guys in Moore and Jackson that expire after this season (preserving 2020 free agent options) while being good complimentary players off of Lebron and AD.

The Pelicans get their All Star and Blake is coming off of another great year. I think a Blake Griffin and Zion front court could work, especially because Blake is a great passer and is shooting/making a lot of threes at this point in his career. The money is an issue, but unless we're going to be a free agent destination, we'll be fine getting his money off the books in 2022 and being a big free agent player the year before Zion signs his 2nd contract. If Ingram is healthy, he qualifies as a potential All Star. Hart is someone who can provide spacing. At pick 4 you can grab whoever you like, or maybe trade down for more picks. Let's just assume Garland is the guy. He gives you even more spacing.

Garland/Jackson
Jrue/Hart
Ingram/Kenrich
Zion/Diallo
Blake/Okafor/Wood

This team could be a really fun 7 or 8 seed next year.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

Trying to meet Griff's requirements of an All Star, Potential All Star, and Draft Picks with this one...
Trade of the Day

Lakers
Anthony Davis
Reggie Jackson
E'Twaun Moore

Pistons
Solomon Hill
Lonzo Ball

Pelicans
Blake Griffin
Brandon Ingram
Josh Hart
#4
2021 1st from Lakers


Blake's got a huge contract and the Pistons aren't going anywhere. Griff is also looking for an All Star, and he's one of the only All Stars that I could see being easily available. This is a chance for the Pistons to get off a TON of money, start their rebuild, and reset around Lonzo, Luke Kennard, and a LOT of cap space.

The Lakers do whatever it takes to get AD, but they also get two guys in Moore and Jackson that expire after this season (preserving 2020 free agent options) while being good complimentary players off of Lebron and AD.

The Pelicans get their All Star and Blake is coming off of another great year. I think a Blake Griffin and Zion front court could work, especially because Blake is a great passer and is shooting/making a lot of threes at this point in his career. The money is an issue, but unless we're going to be a free agent destination, we'll be fine getting his money off the books in 2022 and being a big free agent player the year before Zion signs his 2nd contract. If Ingram is healthy, he qualifies as a potential All Star. Hart is someone who can provide spacing. At pick 4 you can grab whoever you like, or maybe trade down for more picks. Let's just assume Garland is the guy. He gives you even more spacing.

Garland/Jackson
Jrue/Hart
Ingram/Kenrich
Zion/Diallo
Blake/Okafor/Wood

This team could be a really fun 7 or 8 seed next year.

---

I’d bet both my balls that Griffin meant a young all star and not Blake I need a cane Griffin. Also, 7 or 8 seed is exactly what we want to avoid