Pels Off season thread

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by msusousaphone;1563349
Yeah. I see that, too. He also has Clutch in his ear. [B

I don't necessarily think they are telling him anti-NOLA rhetoric but I absolutely think they are telling him he can be that all-star PG and that he can be that #1 or #2 and to chase that money.[/B] I'm very high on Ball and his trajectory but if I had to make a prediction, I don't think he's ready to accept a more off-the-ball role behind Zion and BI.

---

For real. Being Robert Covington is great, he's super valuable and can provide immense impact in the right circumstance, but being Robert Covington doesn't get you MVP votes or $50m a year. It's helpful, it can be impactful, it can be important, but it's not the high glamour, legacy defining, super-max contract figure that being a truly elite offensive engine is.

If you're Lonzo and you've spent your entire life up until the NBA being told you're Stephen Curry with a 40 inch vert, and then you get to the Lakers and they proclaim you as the next Magic, and your fanbase is as rabid as the Lonzo fanbase, and you get a TV show and your own brand, it's going to take a little while for reality to get through all of that and for you to realise that actually, you are more RoCo than Magic. That's probably not happening any time soon.

I say go get Kemba. Use one of the firsts we get back for him to get Sexton and Nance. I?d think we?d get more than a first since we ain?t sending salary back. Use the extra stuff and Get Beasley and Bagley. Next year Kemba will be expiring so we use him in a bigger trade.

Kemba, Kira
Sexton, NAW, Beasley
Ingram, Hart, Naji, Murphy
Zion, Nance
Val, Bagley, Hayes

Why would the Thunder give up a first to get off him? What do they care about his salary?

They will move him for a worse contract next summer and GET a first

Hey MM, you've mentioned in the past we've inquired about OG Anunoby, does the Raps drafting Barnes indicate they are shopping OG? Is there any more chatter around this?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

David Griffin sees Lonzo as a 3&D wing. Which is what he is most effective at, at least at this point in his career.

It's not that helpful a lot of the time to try and give people secure ''positions''. It's more helpful to think of players as guards, wings, and bigs more generally I find - Lonzo is a wing, not a guard, by this estimation.

In the broadest sense, guards (point guards, traditionally) bear a creation burden. They are shot creators. Lonzo is not that. Lonzo is mostly useful for his utility: he's not Kyle Korver but he can shoot well enough, he's not a shot creator but he can pass well, he's not a lockdown guy but he's fine enough off-ball on D. He fits a lot of roles but none of those roles involve being a primary ball handler, shot creator, on-ball threat, which are traditionally guard based activities.

---

Disagree, I have no faith in Lonzo as a spot up perimeter shooter. Think he is better at finding a good pass than hitting an open shot. I?m ready for the Pelicans to move in from him, hopefully the qualifying offer is just part of a plan to get something for him.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth

Disagree, I have no faith in Lonzo as a spot up perimeter shooter. Think he is better at finding a good pass than hitting an open shot. I?m ready for the Pelicans to move in from him, hopefully the qualifying offer is just part of a plan to get something for him.

---

I got to a stage where, as a fan, I got excited when Lonzo got a wide open look from 3. He is a good shooter now. I think his defense is slightly overrated and I think his offensive game outside of shooting and passing is a bit underrated.

Watching NBA TV’s free agency special. Well respected @ChrisBHaynes reports unless there’s a major “hiccup”, sources tell him Lonzo Ball intends to work out a contract with the Bulls. Pelicans are going hard after free agent PG Kyle Lowry.

— Mark Schanowski (@MarkSchanowski) August 1, 2021

Hmmm.

Agree that Lonzo sees himself as a point guard and that is the major source of his unhappiness with Griffin and the Pels. Ball and his camp (which at this point includes Rich Paul and Klutch Sports) are committed to him playing the point and I think, if given the chance, Ball will work hard to get better at attacking the rim and tighten up his ball handling and decision making. Whether he can grow into a legit championship PG remains very much in question.

But Griff may be able to square this circle. I thought Ball and NAW were an interesting backcourt in the very limited sample size we got to see. I could see Ball playing a hybrid ball handling role in the open court, maybe bringing the ball up, passing ahead on the break, but giving it off to NAW (or another lead guard, or Zion, or Brandon) when they go into half court sets. It would be a big back court with active hands and decent outside shooting and passing (assuming some growth from both guys). I wouldn't hate it. But if they could get Brogdon, I'd absolutely go that way first. Honestly, my biggest concern is that it didn't seem that any of our guards (except maybe Didi) could keep anyone out of the paint last year. Maybe it was scheme related...

Watching NBA TV’s free agency special. Well respected @ChrisBHaynes reports unless there’s a major “hiccup”, sources tell him Lonzo Ball intends to work out a contract with the Bulls. Pelicans are going hard after free agent PG Kyle Lowry.

— Mark Schanowski (@MarkSchanowski) August 1, 2021

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth

Disagree, I have no faith in Lonzo as a spot up perimeter shooter. Think he is better at finding a good pass than hitting an open shot. I?m ready for the Pelicans to move in from him, hopefully the qualifying offer is just part of a plan to get something for him.

---

Nah, he's a pretty reliable stand-still catch and shoot guy at this point. Not Kyle Korver, as I said, but he's solid at that.

He is better at finding a good pass than hitting an open shot, but that's not because he's a terrible shooter it's because he's a top tier connective passer.

I'm also ready for the Pels to move from him, I've been in favour of letting him go or S&Ting him (unless he's coming back for way below what most expect he will be paid), but that doesn't change the reality that he's improved a lot as a shooter over the past 2 years.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Nah, he's a pretty reliable stand-still catch and shoot guy at this point. Not Kyle Korver, as I said, but he's solid at that.

He is better at finding a good pass than hitting an open shot, but that's not because he's a terrible shooter it's because he's a top tier connective passer.

I'm also ready for the Pels to move from him, I've been in favour of letting him go or S&Ting him (unless he's coming back for way below what most expect he will be paid), but that doesn't change the reality that he's improved a lot as a shooter over the past 2 years.

---

Do you want to move on from Lonzo so badly that failing on Lowry and overpaying Schoeder is an OK compromise?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Impose

Do you want to move on from Lonzo so badly that failing on Lowry and overpaying Schoeder is an OK compromise?

---

No, but there's no need to be silly. It's not like the options are get Lowry or give Schroeder $20m.

There's Lowry, there's Brogdon, there's still the ability to retain Lonzo if things are dire, there's trying to make a move for a smaller priced vet who can fill the role until we can make another move later, hell at the extreme end of things there's just going in and seeing how Kira does (not advised imo, but it's there). Technically speaking we haven't even fully ruled out CP3 yet either. This ''Lowry or Schroeder'' hypothetical you've set up is a bit weird.

I want to move off Lonzo because I believe he is best suited to playing a role that doesn't justify the size of the paycheck he's likely to be offered by a team like Chicago. It is not, contrary to what some people seem to think, because I hate Lonzo on a personal level and want him gone from the team lest he continue to disgust me. It's all about basketball, return on investment, and long term cost/value.

What yearly amount do you think the Duncan Robinson or Evan Fournier contract comes in at?

I wouldn't mind Bobby Portis as our back up big man, he can play with Val and Zion easily..the problem is he would be our 3rd 4th big with Hayes...not sure if they would prioritize that after the Point guard spot gets solved

Part of me would rather just punt completely on PG if there isn't a good situation. Say we don't get Lowry etc and still move/let go Lonzo. We could still use that money for shooting/other elements. What if we did start Kira? He's not ready, but I'm more than a little intrigued. You'd have a lot of money to still upgrade the rotation considerably, and he'd learn on the job. With Point Zion/Ingram it wouldn't totally be on him and you can bring in a decent backup as well.

I understand you have to pay for great players, just seems like most of the names rumored to Pels are bloated contracts or short players. I don?t think Pels are one player away. Would prefer to bring in 2 or 3 reasonable contracts instead.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by donato

Part of me would rather just punt completely on PG if there isn't a good situation. Say we don't get Lowry etc and still move/let go Lonzo. We could still use that money for shooting/other elements. What if we did start Kira? He's not ready, but I'm more than a little intrigued. You'd have a lot of money to still upgrade the rotation considerably, and he'd learn on the job. With Point Zion/Ingram it wouldn't totally be on him and you can bring in a decent backup as well.

---

I'm kinda w/ this if we can't get Lowry, Brogdon, Dragic. We could get Elfrid Payton (prob wouldn't take much), then Kira splits time w/ him. We then use our $$ and whatever other assets to get great shooters like Joe Ingles.

I so hope Griff has a plan.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pelicans47

I understand you have to pay for great players, just seems like most of the names rumored to Pels are bloated contracts or short players. I don?t think Pels are one player away. Would prefer to bring in 2 or 3 reasonable contracts instead.

---

I believe the better option is bringing in a star guard, we have enough useful players under contract. I know our starting 5 last year was good enough for a playoff spot and the bench kinda let us down, but our inability to close games was also a glaring issue and that requires a closer. If I had my way I'd definitely be aiming at a trade with a team looking to clear cap space rather than throw money at Lowry.

I'd love to trade for Brogdon, use the full MLE on Portis, resign Lonzo. Bring back Willy too as Jaxson Insurance.

That's my dream off-season.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RUFshreve

I'd love to trade for Brogdon, use the full MLE on Portis, resign Lonzo. Bring back Willy too as Jaxson Insurance.

That's my dream off-season.

---

Starting to like this idea.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RUFshreve

I'd love to trade for Brogdon, use the full MLE on Portis, resign Lonzo. Bring back Willy too as Jaxson Insurance.

That's my dream off-season.

---

How we getting brogdon and keeping Zo?

The light at the end of the tunnel?

NOTE: This article was published yesterday

https://clutchpoints.com/suns-rumors...zYqI42_-aEAva8

At 4/$80, if we strike out on Lowry, I think I would keep Ball. He could be a future asset in a trade if needed, rather than what we would get in a S&T.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

At 4/$80, if we strike out on Lowry, I think I would keep Ball. He could be a future asset in a trade if needed, rather than what we would get in a S&T.

---

In the end, I believe we end up in Sign and Trade with ChiTown. They get Lonzo, we get Lauri Markkanen and Tomas Satoransky. Then, we flip Markkanen.

Personally, if indeed Kira is the future, I would love to get Goran Dragic on a short deal.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by As I See It

In the end, I believe we end up in Sign and Trade with ChiTown. They get Lonzo, we get Lauri Markkanen and Tomas Satoransky. Then, we flip Markkanen.

Personally, if indeed Kira is the future, I would love to get Goran Dragic on a short deal.

---

There is starting to be more smoke around Lonzo and the Bulls. Markkanen is the wild card for me. There are games when I feel he is hot garbage but then other games where he seems to get it. He is still young and I wonder if a change of scenery would be good for him. We don't need him to be a top 3 option - we just need him to knock down his perimeter shots which he is good at. I am also intrigued at running this lineup at periods in game: Zion, BI, Markkanen, NAW and whoever we get to run the point.

I shudder at the idea of a BI/Markkanen/Zion/NAW lineup on defense.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I shudder at the idea of a BI/Markkanen/Zion/NAW lineup on defense.

---

Good point but I believe NAW started to show some defensive promise. I also think they would lethal on offense. Just a fun time to be a Pels fan. Looking forward to the start of FA.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PelicanProf

Good point but I believe NAW started to show some defensive promise. I also think they would lethal on offense. Just a fun time to be a Pels fan. Looking forward to the start of FA.

---

🤞

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hornetzplaya

How we getting brogdon and keeping Zo?

---

Brogdon is on a $20 million per year

If Lonzo doesn't get his $20 million. We could keep both if Lonzo is like $16 million . Should we...


I wouldn't mind. If it makes Zion happy and FA is typical where players have very little interest coming here unless we overpay grossly. I'd say just keep him. Lonzo does gives us versatility and depth even if his on ball defense is pretty non existent and his slow feet gets him cooked to the basketball. He has no business guarding elite guards. He still be an overpriced move where you're betting his potential turns this into a cheap contract. Still an easily a movable contract regardless.

Brogdon Lewis
NAW Lonzo
Ingram Naji Trey
Zion Hayes
JV Portis

Definitely can put together some versatility, but there isn't much elite half court floor general. Definitely would have a lot of coaching up to make it work.

I don't see Markannen in a deal with Ball. I would think it would be something like Satoransky or Aminu and a future pick (hopefully a protected 1st in 2025). Would prefer getting White and a pick if possible.

We have mentioned this guy's name before and he does not appear to be reliable. However, for some reason, he posts a lot about the Pelicans-

Pelicans are preparing to offer a full max to Kyle Lowry, which means Josh Hart will hit the open market, Per NBA Sources.#WeTheNorth #Wontbowdown #NBA #NBATwitter pic.twitter.com/NKzYr8Md4S

— Landon Buford (@LandonBuford) August 1, 2021

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

We have mentioned this guy's name before and he does not appear to be reliable. However, for some reason, he posts a lot about the Pelicans-

Pelicans are preparing to offer a full max to Kyle Lowry, which means Josh Hart will hit the open market, Per NBA Sources.#WeTheNorth #Wontbowdown #NBA #NBATwitter pic.twitter.com/NKzYr8Md4S

— Landon Buford (@LandonBuford) August 1, 2021

---

This is common sense tho. We have to give him to bag for him to come here over Philly or Miami. He still probably take a pay cut to play in Philly tho lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taker597

This is common sense tho. We have to give him to bag for him to come here over Philly or Miami. He still probably take a pay cut to play in Philly tho lol.

---

I can't remember the exact mechanics of it, but Shamit was tweeting the other day about how, because of our cap situation and the structures of sign and trades and so on, there's functionally no difference for us between paying Lowry $30m a year and paying him $36m a year. If the latter is what it takes to get him, get him - it doesn't significantly alter our flexibility going forward either way.

Found the tweets:

Something I keep trying to explain people - as long as Lowry is worked into the Memphis trade, the Pelicans' ability to make other acquisitions isn't materially changed if Lowry is making $30million or $36M.

It's if he's not worked in the Memphis trade you should get upset!

— Shamit Dua (@FearTheBrown) August 1, 2021

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

We have mentioned this guy's name before and he does not appear to be reliable. However, for some reason, he posts a lot about the Pelicans-

Pelicans are preparing to offer a full max to Kyle Lowry, which means Josh Hart will hit the open market, Per NBA Sources.#WeTheNorth #Wontbowdown #NBA #NBATwitter pic.twitter.com/NKzYr8Md4S

— Landon Buford (@LandonBuford) August 1, 2021

---

The 2 rookies and Naji makes Hart expendable. Hoping we can work a sign and trade and get back something of value.

The Miami Heat are picking up guard Goran Dragic’s $19.4 million team option for the 2021-22 season, sources tell @TheAthletic @Stadium.

— Shams Charania (@ShamsCharania) August 1, 2021

Casts some doubt on the idea of them pursuing Lowry hard

Naji is just a better Hart in all respects

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

The Miami Heat are picking up guard Goran Dragic’s $19.4 million team option for the 2021-22 season, sources tell @TheAthletic @Stadium.

— Shams Charania (@ShamsCharania) August 1, 2021

Casts some doubt on the idea of them pursuing Lowry hard

---

Wow..i did not see that coming

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AusPel

Wow..i did not see that coming

---

I don't think it rules it out, they still have other avenues to create space and I guess if Lowry *really* wanted to take a paycut to play there they could do a Duncan Robinson double s+t, but the feasibility of fielding both Lowry and Dragic is a bit shaky and it's not like Dragic is cheap.

As the Miami Heat create salary cap space, Toronto free agent guard Kyle Lowry remains a firm target in free agency, sources tell ESPN. Miami has more levers to pull to create space to sign Lowry outright -- or can still endeavor to work a sign-and-trade with the Raptors.

— Adrian Wojnarowski (@wojespn) August 1, 2021

Woj saying they are still very much interested in KL

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AusPel

Naji is just a better Hart in all respects

---

Agreed

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

The Miami Heat are picking up guard Goran Dragic’s $19.4 million team option for the 2021-22 season, sources tell @TheAthletic @Stadium.

— Shams Charania (@ShamsCharania) August 1, 2021

Casts some doubt on the idea of them pursuing Lowry hard

---

Sign and trade Dragic. Seems like Toronto just gonna tank this season. Kind of wild. Went from Championship to 2nd best record. Then, they got relocated and decided it was a good time to start rebuilding. The decisiveness is pretty on point.

https://theathletic.com/2744648/2021...nt/?source=rss

Guillory basically says that the Pels best option is to match the bulls offer to Zo after Lowry signs with the Mavs. We’ll also resign Josh heart and use the MLE on a player and build the team organically rather than “relying on the cap space fairy to save them”.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DroopyDawg

https://theathletic.com/2744648/2021...nt/?source=rss

Guillory basically says that the Pels best option is to match the bulls offer to Zo after Lowry signs with the Mavs. We’ll also resign Josh heart and use the MLE on a player and build the team organically rather than “relying on the cap space fairy to save them”.

---

Seems redundant to keep both. Especially, when we are trying to not be so guard heavy rotation. Thankfully. 4 guards and Melli still haunt me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DroopyDawg

https://theathletic.com/2744648/2021...nt/?source=rss

Guillory basically says that the Pels best option is to match the bulls offer to Zo after Lowry signs with the Mavs. We’ll also resign Josh heart and use the MLE on a player and build the team organically rather than “relying on the cap space fairy to save them”.

---

I don't think this is gonna happen.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taker597

Seems redundant to keep both. Especially, when we are trying to not be so guard heavy rotation. Thankfully. 4 guards and Melli still haunt me.

---

I guess the one thing Hart is he can be your wing player and he can be your small ball 4. He does give you lineup flexibility but I do agree it’s redundant. Naji can give u what Hart does but I honestly recall Naji playing the 4 in any lineups. Maybe he did but my memory sucks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PELSGIRL

I don't think this is gonna happen.

---

I would certainly hope its not going to happen.

The Lowry decision is such a huge deal leaguewide it's crazy.

If he signs with Dallas, New Orleans and Miami both have to go into scramble mode and Toronto has to fully accept that they're in a rebuild.
If he signs with Miami, New Orleans still has to scramble but Dallas is now left with a huge demand for additional playmaking and ballhandling, which probably drives up Hardaway's pricetag for them, and again, Toronto has to accept they're in a rebuild.
If he signs in New Orleans, Miami suddenly has no clear way to improve having already locked in to Dragic and Robinson now has higher leverage over them; Toronto, again, same thing.
If he stays in Toronto, New Orleans, Miami, and Dallas are all suddenly bereft.

And of course, this can extend larger: if, for example, New Orleans gets him by wrapping him into the Memphis trade then now Memphis are involved (At least on paper) etc etc.

Huge implications.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

The Lowry decision is such a huge deal leaguewide it's crazy.

If he signs with Dallas, New Orleans and Miami both have to go into scramble mode and Toronto has to fully accept that they're in a rebuild.
If he signs with Miami, New Orleans still has to scramble but Dallas is now left with a huge demand for additional playmaking and ballhandling, which probably drives up Hardaway's pricetag for them, and again, Toronto has to accept they're in a rebuild.
If he signs in New Orleans, Miami suddenly has no clear way to improve having already locked in to Dragic and Robinson now has higher leverage over them; Toronto, again, same thing.
If he stays in Toronto, New Orleans, Miami, and Dallas are all suddenly bereft.

And of course, this can extend larger: if, for example, New Orleans gets him by wrapping him into the Memphis trade then now Memphis are involved (At least on paper) etc etc.

Huge implications.

---

Who would have known

Marc Stein @TheSteinLine
about 7 minutes ago
Miami's status as the favorite to land Kyle Lowry was only enhanced by the decision to pick up Goran Dragic's option for next season, league sources say. A sign-and-trade with Toronto for Lowry centered around Dragic's $19.4MM deal for next season is an obvious route to a deal.

Hart misses too many way open threes