I'm with ya. Do you have his number? I lost a lot of contacts when I changed phones. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by MistaWhoDat
AD trade scenarios...
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06-09-2019, 05:53 PMMount Zion
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06-09-2019, 05:55 PMPelicanidaeA bunch of teams and guys who I would be happy with being the main guy:Quote:
Originally Posted by MistaWhoDat
Boston Celtics: Tatum
NYK: Barrett
Atlanta: John Collins or Trae Young, either would be fine
Raptors: Pascal Siakam
Pacers: Myles Turner
Chicago Bulls: Lauri Markkanen
Cleveland Cavaliers: Colin Sexton
Sacramento Kings: De'Aaron Fox
Dallas Mavericks: Luka Doncic
Memphis Grizzlies: Ja Morant
Can we just stop pretending that because some of don't like Ingram or Ball, we're somehow refusing to even consider possibilities. Look! There's 10 teams! 33% of the entire league! Obviously all of those players would have to have picks and secondary players attached, but those are all young, promising, talented players who could easily form the centrepiece of an AD trade.
It's not just Boston or NYC: just because the Lakers suck doesn't mean everyone else does too. -
06-09-2019, 05:57 PMMount ZionSo true. My step-daughter would hit that shot 9 out of 10 times. She can't drive like Lonzo, she's in her 30s now and hasn't played since college, but I would bet she can still shoot better than Lonzo. Shooters can shoot and he ain't one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taker597
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06-09-2019, 06:34 PMMistaWhoDatI’m saying the majority of this board would be ok with Barrett or Tatum and whatever we get with them I’m not singling anybody over all most would be happy if we landed one of those two guysQuote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk -
06-09-2019, 06:55 PMDaPelFromHell
My ideal Boston trade:
Boston: AD, Etwaun Moore, & Solo Hill
Pels: Jayson Tatum, Jaylen Brown, Marcus Smart, Robert Williams III, Suns pick #6, & Boston’s pick #22
Suns: Terry Rozier, Boston’s picks 14 & 20, Boston’s pick #51, & our pick #57.
Phoenix trades the 6th pick cause the Cavs take their target Darius Garland at 5. We take Jarrett Culver at 6 and Naz Reid or the best big at 22.
C: Okafor, Williams
PF: Zion, Reid
SF: Tatum, Brown
SG: Jrue, Culver
PG: Smart, F Jax
I could seriously get down with that depth chart. -
06-09-2019, 07:05 PMpelicanchamp
Tatum is likely a great fit next to a Jrue and Zion. The CELTICS would be incredible even if they didn’t have smart, Tatum and those picks. Rozier at pg instead of Kyrie plus Horford, Hayward and AD, Jaylen Brown and so on would be a dominant team regardless if Kyrie stayed.
I don’t want to get my hopes up but if we managed to do this trade I’d be very happy:
Celtics get AD
PELS get Tatum, Baynes, Smart, 14th, 20th picks and Memphis future top 6th protected 2021 1st.
Then draft Sekou D the international SF/PF if he’s available with the 14th pick. Or that shooter from Kentucky https://youtu.be/CjeKpJGayDc -
06-09-2019, 07:08 PMPELICANSFANCapella is FAR from being a star. He is a good player, but not a star.Quote:
Originally Posted by pelicanchamp
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06-09-2019, 07:09 PMPelicanidaeBasically this.Quote:
Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN
Griffin said an AD trade should net you:
1) A star player, or a player with potential to be a star.
2) A very good, strong roleplayer
3) Picks.
Remember that. Whenever you suggest a trade, ask yourself, does it have those ingredients? Or is your trade ''One solid roleplay, two benchwarmers, and we give up picks''?
If it's the latter, don't bother. -
06-09-2019, 07:12 PMPELICANSFANNot possible with Rozier. He is a free agent and a S&T cannot be done before the draft.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaPelFromHell
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06-09-2019, 07:12 PMRobertM320
I've got a question. Everyone seems so intent on putting together a complete, solid, talented starting five IMMEDIATELY, as in this season. Other than Ja Morant (who we can't get), there are no other really, really good PGs in this draft, but supposedly several next year. Wouldn't the smart thing to do be to get the best PLAYERS we can NOW from the Davis trade and the draft, and then see what we have? Elfrid can handle the PG position this season, and we look for our long term PG in NEXT years draft.
I just feel like some people are trying to fit a square peg in a round hole, they're so desperate to fill all 5 starting positions with All-Star talent in the next six weeks. -
06-09-2019, 07:16 PMPelicanidaeI agree. That's why I don't have any real interest in acquiring the #6 pick so we can get Garland. Garland isn't that great of a prospect. He can shoot, sure, but he's not what I see as being the PG of the future.Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertM320
I like the Knicks trade so much (it's the one I've been most behind since February) because it gives us two shots at solid players moving forward at two positions, SF and C, but mostly because it gives us so much potential future draft capital. Could potentially get 3 FRPs from two different teams on it. That would let us go forward, drafting for fit in the future. Could get the Knicks pick next year too if we do the deal on draft night, and have our pick and their pick to try and get a guard for the future.
Multiple bites at the cherry in every draft is always a dream scenario. -
06-09-2019, 07:19 PMWildlifeAirGrpThat would be the most confusing trade in the history of the NBA...but I am all about confusion and mayhem.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaPelFromHell
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06-09-2019, 07:22 PMPelicanidae
My only issues with that trade: Naz Reid sucks, and why aren't we getting the Memphis pick?
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06-09-2019, 07:41 PMRobertM320Its the LSU bias we have on the board. Everyone thinks because he played at LSU he must be great. What would people have said last season if I had suggested we sign Cam Reynolds of Tulane? They would have laughed at me. Yet he's doing well enough with the TWolves that they signed him to a multi-year contract. And he CAN shoot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
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06-09-2019, 07:50 PMPelicanidaeYeah, I guess. Again, something I don't really get as someone who's removed from the internal sports world of the state.Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertM320
Naz Reid is not good. It feels weird to say this, cause obviously almost nobody fits this definition at an NBA level, but he's kinda fat. He had like 14% body fat at the combine or something, which is more than 5% more than anyone else in the entire thing. He's 6'9.5'', which is a little undersized for a center, and he is a center cause he lacks the skillset to really play down. His wingspan is big, at 7'3, but it's not any bigger than other late-first round big men this year like Mfiondu Kabengele, or Nicolas Claxton, or Jontay Porter, who are all taller and all have wingspans around 7'3 as well.
He wasn't particularly efficient, he wasn't a fantastic shooter, he wasn't a great rim protector, his PER was the lowest of all the names I mentioned, he had the least WS/40, the worst net rating, by far the lowest BPM, and that's despite the second highest usage rate.
For me, if I'm picking a big man late in the first or in the early second round, I'm picking Mfiondu Kabengele, Nicolas Claxton, or Jontay Porter, probably in that order. Naz Reid can go undrafted. -
06-09-2019, 07:59 PMNMThreeMVPIs Barrett definitely the pick there if you do the Knicks deal, or should Culver get serious consideration?Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
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06-09-2019, 08:13 PMPelicanidaeI think it's Barrett, yeah. I do like Culver a lot, and I don't think that it would be a disgrace if he got picked third over Barrett, but I think Barrett's ceiling is higher.Quote:
Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP
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06-09-2019, 08:16 PM13 - 3
Expectation vs Reality pic.twitter.com/8QYE9r1fq0
— pickuphoop (@pickuphoop) June 9, 2019 -
06-09-2019, 08:21 PMButtersI’d be happy with the 1, 4 and 6 pick along with Kuzma, Hart and Ingram.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pels4Life
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06-09-2019, 08:23 PMpelicanchampYeah. I don’t like this kind of rumor. Would y’all be opposed to AD to 76ers for Ben Simmons?Quote:
Originally Posted by 13 - 3
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk -
06-09-2019, 08:25 PMPelicanidaeWouldn't be the worst centrepiece in the world, but I wouldn't be in favour of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by pelicanchamp
Jrue can't shoot.
Zion can't shoot.
Simmons can't shoot.
Spaaaaaaaaacing. Spaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaacing. -
06-09-2019, 08:35 PMHornetGuruAdd my boy Donovan Mitchell to the list!Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
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06-09-2019, 08:35 PMPelicanidaeYep, him too!Quote:
Originally Posted by HornetGuru
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06-09-2019, 08:37 PMNMThreeMVPDoes Culver get to be added to the list, or is the gap between him and RJ too significant/obvious?Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
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06-09-2019, 08:38 PMHornetGuruJrue is a career +36% shooter from 3, he can absolutely shoot, he isn’t Ray Allen thoughQuote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
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06-09-2019, 08:39 PMHornetGuruNo, culver would have to be a secondary piece, not the mainQuote:
Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP
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06-09-2019, 08:40 PMPelicanidaeJrue has not shot better than 35% for the last 4 years. Dudes do not respect him on the perimeter unless he's having a hot night.Quote:
Originally Posted by HornetGuru
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06-09-2019, 08:40 PMHornetGuruAgreed, I’d be happy with any of themQuote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
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06-09-2019, 08:42 PMHornetGuruFair argument, but he has averaged 34% over the last 4 years which isn’t bad at all, and those have also been his worst 4 years from 3, I think his average will slowly but surely trend back to around 36 or 37%Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
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06-09-2019, 08:49 PMNMThreeMVPSo the difference between him and RJ is significant??Quote:
Originally Posted by HornetGuru
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06-09-2019, 08:49 PMPelicanidaeWhich is fair enough. I guess if you're talking spacing, where a complete none-shooter like Tristan Thompson is a 0 and a sharpshooter like Curry is a 5, Jrue is maybe a 2.5? He's not awful overall and sometimes he can get hot and hit 5 in a row, but usually he's kind of hit or miss.Quote:
Originally Posted by HornetGuru
That would mean that the maximum shooting score for a starting 5 is 25.
Jrue - 2.5
Zion - 1.5
So we have 4/25 so far. As far as I'm concerned, that needs to get up to around 12 or 13 total with the other three guys. So we're talking 3 guys who are at least 3.5s, preferably.
Edit: so an example lineup where we go with Boston might look a little like (using their shooting percentages from last season)
PG - Smart (36.4%) - 2.5
SG - Jrue (32.5%) - 1.5
SF - Tatum (37.3%) - 3.0
PF - Zion (33.8%) - 2.0
C - Okafor (20.0%) - 0
For a total of 9/25. Not great. By comparison, if you start Brown instead of Smart and move Jrue to PG (yeah yeah, I know) he shot 39.4% from three in the 44 games where he didn't have a cast on his hand. That would be a 3.5 instead of a 2.5 for Smart, and be more like 10/25, which is obviously better.
For comparison:
PG - Curry (43.7%) - 4.5
SG - Klay (40.2%) - 4.0
SF - Durant (35.3%) - 2.5
PF - Green (28.5%) - 1
C - Jones (0%) - 0
For a total of 12/25. -
06-09-2019, 08:52 PMWhyHornetsWhy
I'll keep saying this because I truly believe that this is the best trade offer/roster we can get:
Tatum, Brown, Smart, Jrue, Zion, Barrett, Payton.
Target Rubio in the off-season.
That roster can contend for a title when KD leaves and Houston is on the decline.
Now, is it even plausible for Boston to somehow trade their 14th pick. their Memphis 2020 pick, and a sign and trade of Irving or something for NY's 3rd overall pick???
Edit: ...And if NY doesn't trade their 3rd overall pick in the scenario above, I'd throw in our own 2020 1st round pick as well for Barrett. -
06-09-2019, 08:58 PMHornetGuruTo me yes, I think RJ will be like a poor mans mcgrady and culver an Uber athletic sharp shooter, but RJ is a play maker, scores, passes, and rebounds wellQuote:
Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP
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06-09-2019, 09:01 PMHornetGuruIf Tristan is a zero and curry is a 5, a 2.5 would have to be someone who shoots like 25% from 3 so jrue should be higher, regardless, we aren’t arguing wether jrue can hit the, its if they have to respect jrue from 3 so the floor is spread so zion can operate, and you have to respect jrue from 3 so jrue qualifies as a good enough shooter to meQuote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
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06-09-2019, 09:04 PMHornetGuruDon’t think we’re gettig brown and smart, awesome if we do though, I’m pretty sure it’s gonna beQuote:
Originally Posted by WhyHornetsWhy
Tatum, Smart, pick 14, Memphis 1st rounder next year, and a filler -
06-09-2019, 09:14 PMHornetGuruI would give Tatum at least a 3.5, but probably a 4, he’s a sniper, he shot kver 40% as a rookie, kyrie hurt his development, with jrue I would bet my house that Tatum averages 40 next seasonQuote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
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06-09-2019, 09:14 PMPelicanidaeThat's fair, I was kinda just spitballing the numbers. I might work out an actual system for judging a team's overall shooting at some point, with more precise figures.Quote:
Originally Posted by HornetGuru
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06-09-2019, 09:15 PMPelicanidaeMaybe, I'd have to actually work out a proper scale for it. Could be that every 2.5% increase a shooter corresponds to a .5 increase in rating or something. I'll figure it outat some point when I can be bothered. Would be interesting for me to actually having a working model of ''team-shooting''.Quote:
Originally Posted by HornetGuru
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06-09-2019, 09:18 PMHornetGuruNot a bad idea but still it’s not fair to completely judge them by 3pt percentage, it doesn’t say how many of those 3 pointers were open or contested.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
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06-09-2019, 09:19 PMPelicanidaeI'd probably work that out into it. Maybe weight contested shots higher than uncontested shots, and also attribute a higher rating to unassisted shots than assisted ones. That's important, because obviously Joe Harris shoots a better percentage than Steph Curry from deep but nobody would argue that he's a more deadly shooter.Quote:
Originally Posted by HornetGuru
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06-09-2019, 09:21 PMHornetGuruNow THIS is something I could get behindQuote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
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06-09-2019, 09:24 PMPelicanidaeI'll probably put most of it together tomorrow, or over the next couple of days. Basically at some point where it's not 3:24am.Quote:
Originally Posted by HornetGuru
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06-09-2019, 09:25 PMHornetGuruHaha I wouldn’t blame you, I do have a feeling however that jrues 3pt percentage jumps up tonaround 38% this upcoming seasonQuote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
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06-09-2019, 09:28 PMPelicanidaeIt could easily. He's shot 39% before in a season, I think, on a decent number of attempts back when he was in Philly. I'd love to see that return.Quote:
Originally Posted by HornetGuru
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06-09-2019, 09:47 PMHornetGuruWould love it, for the formula I would start with their actual 3 pt percentage then add like a half point if the 3 was contested and for every 10 attempts you get like .1 or something to account for volumeQuote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
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06-09-2019, 09:51 PMPelicanidaeI'm going to try and incorporate:Quote:
Originally Posted by HornetGuru
- Raw percentage
- Volume
- Assisted/unassisted
- Contested/uncontested
- Consistency
I'll make a thread about it when it's done. -
06-09-2019, 09:56 PMmsusousaphone
This board in 2007: "Rondo is a bum. He can't shoot 3s. He will never amount to anything and he will never win championships. He would be an awful 4th asset in a trade."
There is so much more to basketball than shooting, fellas.
But.....and this is a secret.....Ball shoots the three better than young Rondo. -
06-09-2019, 10:16 PMPelicanidaeYou're right, Rondo couldn't shoot early in his career. Couldn't shoot at all! But do you know who could?Quote:
Originally Posted by msusousaphone
Paul Pierce, and Ray Allen! Who both started on that team with Rondo, where he won all those games and that ring. You know, the Paul Pierce who shot 39.2% and the Ray Allen who shot 39.8% from deep in 2008, when they won that ring?
Now it's 2019, not 2008, and three point shooting is even more important now than it was then. And since we don't have anyone who is a sharpshooter in our current lineup aside from, I guess E'twaun, and we're about to have Zion, who can't shoot, join the team, it's important to add some shooters.
Look at the top teams in the league. Golden State: multiple elite shooters. Raptors: Kawhi, Gasol, Green, Powell, and Vanvleet all shot at least 37% from three. Portland: Lillard, McCollum, Seth Curry, Myers Leonard all shot at least 36% from three. Milwaukee: Brogdon, Snell, Middleton, Lopez, all shooting at least 36% from three, logging heavy minutes.
It's almost as if good teams in 2019 have good shooters on them. Absolutely crazy. -
06-09-2019, 10:20 PMEman5805
MM says the Blazers are going hard to get AD. The move to acquire him would net us CJ McCollum among other assets.
I'm conflicted. I like McCollum...but I'm not crazy about pairing AD with Dame. I feel they'd work together too well. Plus, what's the endgame? Are we flipping the other assets down the line? Does it create enough cap to pursue bad contracts and the nice assets that come with it? -
06-09-2019, 10:27 PMPelicanidaeWhat other assets?Quote:
Originally Posted by Eman5805
I like McCollum a lot, he's a legit baller. There's no doubt about that. He'd play well with Jrue, and he'd provide some much needed spacing. But what else do they have? He's not good enough for a 1-to-1 swap.
They have the #25 pick in this year's draft. That's it, not even a 2nd rounder.
They have their pick next year, but it would be just as bad, with the addition of AD. They don't own anyone else's picks. They don't have a glut of good cheap talent. What's the ''other assets'' in this deal?