2024 Offseason Thread

Agree . Wait till season starts . A team will need him. Give us what we are asking for him or slightly less. Granted Ingram needs to stay healthy and not kill his stock.

I think it's good the Pels have given BI's representation the green light to talk with other teams. Let them hear it directly from the competition. Still possible BI will believe he can bring his value up with a good next season, but maybe that can be with the Cavs.

One thing not mentioned much in this discussion is that Jarrett Allen only has two years left on his deal and it's unlikely the Cavs can/will pay his next deal given his supporting role to Mobley. It's one more year than BI's deal but if Brandon is a little flexible on his number with Cavs management, the trade calculus could tip toward a deal later this summer. Let it marinate and soften up!

Griffin literally said during the summer league game the Pelicans are content with what they have at center. I know that is just talk, but interesting none the less.

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Originally Posted by Lee2000

Griffin literally said during the summer league game the Pelicans are content with what they have at center. I know that is just talk, but interesting none the less.

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Makes it sound like they want to play small with Z at the 5 more. Which does make sense because it's the only way Trey and Herb get 30+ min a game with BI still on the team.

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Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth

Makes it sound like they want to play small with Z at the 5 more. Which does make sense because it's the only way Trey and Herb get 30+ min a game with BI still on the team.

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Sounds even more like the usual whatever talk.

A huge part of the lack of trade leverage that Griff has right now (other than people just not wanting to pay BI the max) is that they all know he's over a barrel. ''Why should we give you a good deal, when we know that you need us more than we need you? If anything, we should be getting paid extra'' is the mindset. Obviously that's not a good position to negotiate from.

So, while it's incredibly transparent and nobody will buy it, he has to act unbothered. ''Actually I don't need you that much, we're excited to go small and do things that way. I'm not paying a cent more, I'm not that desperate'' type thing.

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Originally Posted by new city champ

I think it's good the Pels have given BI's representation the green light to talk with other teams. Let them hear it directly from the competition. Still possible BI will believe he can bring his value up with a good next season, but maybe that can be with the Cavs.

One thing not mentioned much in this discussion is that Jarrett Allen only has two years left on his deal and it's unlikely the Cavs can/will pay his next deal given his supporting role to Mobley. It's one more year than BI's deal but if Brandon is a little flexible on his number with Cavs management, the trade calculus could tip toward a deal later this summer. Let it marinate and soften up!

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The issue with Cavs giving up JA for BI is they will be in the same situation as we are looking for a starting 5.

How so? Allen leaving means Mobley can move to his natural position at center. Ingram, Okra, Mitchell and Garland are your other 4. Niang can spot start as well.

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Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar

The issue with Cavs giving up JA for BI is they will be in the same situation as we are looking for a starting 5.

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Nah... they're a better team (by the numbers) with Mobley at the 5. I watched a podcast (if I find it I'll post it) where the guy was saying that lineups with both JA and Mobley didn't perform as well as it did with Mobley in there without JA. Remember JA got hurt at the end of the season and Mobley was able to play the 5... he performed well.

They may very well decide to keep both, but the numbers say they're a better team with Mobley at the 5 without JA.

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Originally Posted by new city champ

How so? Allen leaving means Mobley can move to his natural position at center. Ingram, Okra, Mitchell and Garland are your other 4. Niang can spot start as well.

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Def remember him from USC, and not saying they wouldn’t be willing to try it, my thing is he’s been pretty good/comfortable at the 4 in NBA would they put themselves in a situation where they could be in a bind if he doesn’t translate over as easily.

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Originally Posted by DroopyDawg

Nah... they're a better team (by the numbers) with Mobley at the 5. I watched a podcast (if I find it I'll post it) where the guy was saying that lineups with both JA and Mobley didn't perform as well as it did with Mobley in there without JA. Remember JA got hurt at the end of the season and Mobley was able to play the 5... he performed well.

They may very well decide to keep both, but the numbers say they're a better team with Mobley at the 5 without JA.

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Not saying you’re wrong, I’m just trying to find the splits for that and I can’t. I’d like to see the numbers bc that is interesting if from a numbers standpoint they were better with Mobley at C; bc if we can find that you know the Cavs are already aware.

Atkinson loves Allen from their time with the Nets. Best chance for that trade is they start the season and their offense continues to be clunky with both Mobley and Allen and decide to make a change. Of course, if he loves Allen that much, I'd be willing to take Mobley instead......

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Originally Posted by RobertM320

As usual, we get an ultra hard bracket for the IST this coming season.

Presenting West Group C for the #EmiratesNBACup!

Starting November 12, all 30 teams will compete for the NBA Cup with 8 teams advancing out of groups into the knockout rounds, with the semifinals and championship held in Las Vegas, December 14 and 17! pic.twitter.com/gtu9CvMCrr

? NBA (@NBA) July 12, 2024

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Ahh yep, all those years of being put into a hard group in the IST. When will we catch a break.

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Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar

Not saying you’re wrong, I’m just trying to find the splits for that and I can’t. I’d like to see the numbers bc that is interesting if from a numbers standpoint they were better with Mobley at C; bc if we can find that you know the Cavs are already aware.

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To be fair I didn't see the splits myself... I'm going off what I heard from another guy. I don't think the guy has a reason to make stats up but he's Cavs "insider" so there's that. I just hope we get a capable starting center... if that's JA then cool. If not then let's hope.

Would someone just get Walker Kessler for us now please. give em two late first or whateverf

I do think once we agree to number for Ingram's contract, a lot more options will be popping up for us. WOuldn't be surprised if it wound up being cleveland's jarret allen still.

Pels sign Karlo to a three-year, $4.9 million deal...

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Originally Posted by DroopyDawg

To be fair I didn't see the splits myself... I'm going off what I heard from another guy. I don't think the guy has a reason to make stats up but he's Cavs "insider" so there's that. I just hope we get a capable starting center... if that's JA then cool. If not then let's hope.

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Oh yeah I’m not saying anyone is lying, I’m just interested in seeing the difference in the numbers

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Originally Posted by new city champ

Pels sign Karlo to a three-year, $4.9 million deal...

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Saw that does that put us at 15?

Can Karlo be traded if BI is traded for a center or is there a cooling off period?

Otherwise you'd assume Missi goes with BI if a trade is in the works.

I think the Pelicans are done making moves

1 - Murray, Jose
2 - CJ, Hawkins
3 - BI, Herb
4 - Zion, Trey
5 - Theis, Matkovic

that the 10 man rotation, with Missi and Robinson Earl filling in for injuries. Its a great lineup everywhere but center, Theis is a below average starting center but I also think he will play less minutes than a starting center because we will run some small ball with Zion at the 5.

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Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar

Saw that does that put us at 15?

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they just said on the broadcast that the pelicans have been so impressed with Reeves in practice/SL that they are likely to give him they are 15th and last roster spot in the coming days.

I think no more centers for us, for now.

Unless BI is getting traded.

18-20 min Theis, 15-18 min Missi/Matkovic

and the rest Zion/Trey at the 5

The problem is... we play vs Embiid, Jokic, Adebayo, what we do at the 5? I don't see Theis defending Embiid or Jokic, neither Matkovic, Missi? Maybe physically yes but...

yal crazy if you dont think we will sign another center. its obvious that once BI agrees to a lower number, teams will be interested. But if we sign him to that number we cant trade him for like 6 months huh?

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Originally Posted by fullcourtpress

yal crazy if you dont think we will sign another center. its obvious that once BI agrees to a lower number, teams will be interested. But if we sign him to that number we cant trade him for like 6 months huh?

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If Griffin is exaggerating in an interview during the Summer League game, then maybe. It could be management speak. But there is a perception they are riding with the 3 they have.

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Originally Posted by fullcourtpress

yal crazy if you dont think we will sign another center. its obvious that once BI agrees to a lower number, teams will be interested. But if we sign him to that number we cant trade him for like 6 months huh?

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BI trade looks unlikely to be happening this summer, so where do the Pelicans find a center?

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Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth

BI trade looks unlikely to be happening this summer, so where do the Pelicans find a center?

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They have the 3 already. Or that is what they are implying.

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Originally Posted by Lee2000

They have the 3 already. Or that is what they are implying.

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Yes that's why I think we are going with those 3, but the poster I responded to is convinced we are signing a center. So my question is, who and how?

We will try to up the trade value of our players. That has to happen before we can trade anyone. We need to get the most out of BI and CJ in particular and see if anyone bites. BI’s value took a nosedive after last year and CJ’s as well. That means Willie has to get them both performing and comfortable in the system. We can’t be like we were last year.

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Originally Posted by Spanish_pelican

I think no more centers for us, for now.

Unless BI is getting traded.

18-20 min Theis, 15-18 min Missi/Matkovic

and the rest Zion/Trey at the 5

The problem is... we play vs Embiid, Jokic, Adebayo, what we do at the 5? I don't see Theis defending Embiid or Jokic, neither Matkovic, Missi? Maybe physically yes but...

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That's a legitimate question that doesn't have an answer.

However. If we roll out.....

Murray
CJ
BI
Herb/Trey
Zion

.....how do Denver, Miami, and PHI play that? I feel like Zion can guard those guys better than they can guard him.....especially if CJ, Herb, and Trey are hitting their 3s.

Keep in mind, BI's 2pt game is absolutely floor spacing and the biggest lie of 2024 is that he doesn't fit with Zion. Add Murray into the mix and I think any defensive matchup issues we face is dwarfed by the issues we cause.

DISCLAIMER that I am admittedly probably the most optimistic homer on the board.

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Originally Posted by msusousaphone

DISCLAIMER that I am admittedly probably the most optimistic homer on the board.

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I think I'm a close second on this!

I do think we need a big body center for the big offensive centers out there or maybe they figure they can just throw Missi to the wolves.

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Originally Posted by P_B_&_G

I think I'm a close second on this!

I do think we need a big body center for the big offensive centers out there or maybe they figure they can just throw Missi to the wolves.

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Missi is not ready to face NBA caliber starting centers. Karlo Matkovic is more ready, but he should be a 3rd string center on a good team. Let?s not talk ourselves into Missi being the answer right now. He isn?t. We have a massive hole defensively and offensively at center. They only way that doesn?t hurt is if we become the Golden state warriors, but that would mean D Murray being the clutch player that no one else has shown to be.

Why can't Zion handle big body centers?

Real question. I get that he's 5 inches shorter than most of them but his base is STRONG and the dude has ups. They're not going to bully him. I also get that the main question is 'would Zion want to play C' but I'll again say I think any trouble he has on the defensive end would be returned 10 fold when we're on offense.

Defensively he could probably hold his own because of his strength but he gets killed on the offensive and defensive boards. That's where the 5-6 inch height diff comes in. We need a "true" center.

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Originally Posted by msusousaphone

Why can't Zion handle big body centers?

Real question. I get that he's 5 inches shorter than most of them but his base is STRONG and the dude has ups. They're not going to bully him. I also get that the main question is 'would Zion want to play C' but I'll again say I think any trouble he has on the defensive end would be returned 10 fold when we're on offense.

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Yeah I agree for the most part. Depends on the opponent because he doesn't matchup against a guy like Anthony Davis well but for bigs that are just big, why not? They can't stay with Z out on the perimeter when he has the ball. And I don't think they can bully him in the paint when he's on defense either. The big issue is rebounding and we are going to need a strong team effort from the other guys on the floor to avoid getting killed on the offensive/defensive glass with Z at the 5. Our wings are going to have to make rebounding a priority in ways they haven't done before.

The Pelicans have the weakest group of centers in the NBA and too many small forward type players that need minutes. Playing Zion at center solves both problems... but he is not a center and also misses a lot of games. Ordinarily I would not expect to see Missi this year because he is so inexperienced even for a rookie, but supposedly he is a high IQ guy and a fast learner. We need Missi and/or Matkovic to exceed expectations. At this point we pretty much have to give them the opportunity to do it. Roll with it for the first half of the season and then try to make a move before the trade deadline if neither the young guys breaks out.

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Originally Posted by Darkhorse985

Missi is not ready to face NBA caliber starting centers. Karlo Matkovic is more ready, but he should be a 3rd string center on a good team. Let?s not talk ourselves into Missi being the answer right now. He isn?t. We have a massive hole defensively and offensively at center. They only way that doesn?t hurt is if we become the Golden state warriors, but that would mean D Murray being the clutch player that no one else has shown to be.

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Ideally we wouldn't be relying on a rookie center at all but I'm not sure there are any better options out there barring another trade.

Laurie Markkanen
Zion Williams
Herb Jones
Trey Murphy
Dejuante Murray


this starting five would be our best ever

Word is Ainge is trying to fleece the Warriors for Laurie... if that's true, then the price is way too high for Griff.

There's a better than good chance of us not trading BI before training camp. Even Griff sounds as though he has given up hope of a trade being done any time soon. With that said... prepare yourself for:

- BI to be on the roster at least until the trade deadline
- A Center rotation of Theis, Karlo and Missi (with a splash of JRE)
- One or both of Herb and Trey coming off the bench

Brandon Ingram is “mechanically incapable” to trade given the current salary cap rules, says David Griffin, Executive VP of the New Orleans Pelicans. He expects more #NBA players to become difficult to trade going forward. #Pelicans #Kings #Cavs #Warrors #Grizzlies #Spurs pic.twitter.com/huxRvJ39ix

— SpursReport (@SpursReporter) July 16, 2024

I don't hate the idea of trading Hawkins for Kessler.

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Originally Posted by donato

I don't hate the idea of trading Hawkins for Kessler.

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id be totally down with that.

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Originally Posted by DroopyDawg

There's a better than good chance of us not trading BI before training camp. Even Griff sounds as though he has given up hope of a trade being done any time soon. With that said... prepare yourself for:

- BI to be on the roster at least until the trade deadline
- A Center rotation of Theis, Karlo and Missi (with a splash of JRE)
- One or both of Herb and Trey coming off the bench

Brandon Ingram is “mechanically incapable” to trade given the current salary cap rules, says David Griffin, Executive VP of the New Orleans Pelicans. He expects more #NBA players to become difficult to trade going forward. #Pelicans #Kings #Cavs #Warrors #Grizzlies #Spurs pic.twitter.com/huxRvJ39ix

— SpursReport (@SpursReporter) July 16, 2024

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Herb Jones not starting is blasphemy. He's the best perimeter defender in the league and is literally what makes us a top ten defense... while shooting over 40% from three.

Ego's aside I think he and Murphy should be the starters, and CJ and Ingram could lead the leagues best bench

More important than who starting games is who is finishing games. The pelicans were horrible closing out games last season and infamously didn't win a single game in the fourth quarter. The starting lineup will be Murray - CJ - BI - Zion for sure, and probably Theis. That being said, Willy Green has shown a willingness to bench BI and/or CJ at the end of the game. We may very well see Herb and/or Trey then.

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Originally Posted by fullcourtpress

Herb Jones not starting is blasphemy. He's the best perimeter defender in the league and is literally what makes us a top ten defense... while shooting over 40% from three.

Ego's aside I think he and Murphy should be the starters, and CJ and Ingram could lead the leagues best bench

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You have to be a bit more realistic. Ingram isn't coming off the bench. He's just not at that stage of his career.

Edit: It would also reduce his trade value. So not only are you not using one of your best players optimally, you're making him even less desirable to prospective suiters.

I just can't see Murray, Herb, Ingram or Zion not starting. The rest is speculation.

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Originally Posted by fullcourtpress

Herb Jones not starting is blasphemy. He's the best perimeter defender in the league and is literally what makes us a top ten defense... while shooting over 40% from three.

Ego's aside I think he and Murphy should be the starters, and CJ and Ingram could lead the leagues best bench

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I 100% agree with both. Without a BI trade your starting 5 is:

DJM
CJ
BI
Zion
Pick-a-big

Herb (1st team all defense) and TM3 are the first 2 off the bench. If the Pels can talk CJ into coming off the bench that would get Herb in the first 5, and then you'd have a 2nd unit with CJ, Jose, TM3. Our bench would be crazy regardless of whose the starting 5. if only we could find a capable 5 to anchor the defense.

And yes I agree I'd give up hawk for Kessler.

Herb should be starting over CJ if BI stays.

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Originally Posted by DroopyDawg

I 100% agree with both. Without a BI trade your starting 5 is:

DJM
CJ
BI
Zion
Pick-a-big

Herb (1st team all defense) and TM3 are the first 2 off the bench. If the Pels can talk CJ into coming off the bench that would get Herb in the first 5, and then you'd have a 2nd unit with CJ, Jose, TM3. Our bench would be crazy regardless of whose the starting 5. if only we could find a capable 5 to anchor the defense.

And yes I agree I'd give up hawk for Kessler.

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Why would it be hard to talk CJ into coming off the bench. He'll come off the bench if they tell him to. That's what team players do. I can't see Herb not starting.

CJ shot 43 percent from 3 point last season, on 8+ attempts a game. Thats why they wont send CJ to the bench, it has nothing to do with him agreeing to it or not. He can play off ball, shoot high volume from 3 and make them at an elite level. In a world where CJ comes off the bench it would have to be Trey Murphy taking his place in the lineup.

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Originally Posted by Nichols

You have to be a bit more realistic. Ingram isn't coming off the bench. He's just not at that stage of his career.

Edit: It would also reduce his trade value. So not only are you not using one of your best players optimally, you're making him even less desirable to prospective suiters.

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Given, BI starts cause ego's aren't aside and it would diminish his value. Basically what im suggesting is that he and zion's minutes are spread out where we always have one on the court since they're playmakers who need the ball. especially Now thast we have a PG

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Originally Posted by fullcourtpress

Given, BI starts cause ego's aren't aside and it would diminish his value. Basically what im suggesting is that he and zion's minutes are spread out where we always have one on the court since they're playmakers who need the ball. especially Now thast we have a PG

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No. He's not starting because of ego. He's starting because he's the second best player on the team.

Cj definitely can shoot 8 3s off the bench I’d say even more didn’t Trey Murphy who can’t create his own shot shoot about 9 3s a game

If anybody needs to go to the bench I think it’s obviously cj and if he refuses it’s ego driven because he’s on the tail end of his career

Who has room for improvement 26 year old Brandon Ingram or 33 year old McCollum
We will see how much he really is about team and winning this year anybody can talk the talk

He’s already on record saying he can play any role and has played all them in his career
Bench- co star -star

Bold, maybe not so bold take here, even if BI is moved I think CJ should come off the bench. His 3PA would not dip, maybe wouldn’t avg 20ppg+ anymore but he would be efficient as hell and in 6th man of the year convo. Would be better for the team. It needs to happen. He can start when we inevitably have people miss games here and there.