Draft Prospects Discussion

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03-29-2016, 01:51 PM
durun

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankatank109

There is no stat reference, because a stat for such a thing does not exist. As I have repeatedly said, stats don't tell the full story of a players impact on the court. You seem to have some difficulty in either reading or understanding this, not sure why. To actually understand EG, you have to watch him and talk about his behaviors. You can't simply keep calling for stats, which often provide an inaccurate or incomplete picture.

Stats like eyes can be subjective. The fact is Gordon plays over five more minutes a game and takes 2.5 less attempts than Jrue though EG is a better shooter per efg%. In fact, EG ranks fifth for field goal attempts on this team and second in average minutes per game. That is way stats are important because numbers can confirm what we see.
As far as behavior, I see a player active in the community with the disadvantaged giving his monies and time. This from a player with his heart in Arizona and a player that NOLA dislikes.
03-29-2016, 02:10 PM
The Dude

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by durun

Gentry's system requires a point guard to pass and the ball to move. Why would you want a ball dominant point guard in such a system? Evans is a better passer, less ball dominant and the team earned a playoff seed. With Evans, the team and Davis play better last year.

Again, no stats and Holiday has a better AST to TO ratio and higher PER than both. It's also been written about at length that the team is at its absolute best when AD plays with Jrue, not EG or Tyreke.

A stat line without efficiency is a volume shooter. EG takes 12 attempts compared 14.5 for Holiday. EG plays an average 5 minutes per game and takes less attempts. Holiday is average around 34% as a three points shooter. Efficiency is very important stat in today's game. Look at Golden State.

Agreed...there is actually a stat for that called Player Efficiency Rating which EG has a 13.59 and Holiday has a 19.84.

It doesn't matter how you score if you are efficient. KLAY is a catch and shoot player and I bet you love that guy.

Klay also plays great defense and shoots/plays at a much higher rate. Now you are really talking about Eric Gordon and Klay Thompson. Embarrassing.

Holiday is a slasher and scores two. He is a below-average distance shooter. EG scores three pointers and that's why his 41% fg% is greater than Holiday's 47%. Put another way, base upon 100 shots, EG scores 104 points and Holiday puts up 99 points. It's simple math.

But Holiday is a PG who averages many more assists and plays better defense by far. At this point you really are just embarrassing yourself. You are really comparing who is a better player between Holiday and Eric Gordon....really? Really?

Put another way, Gordon has a TS% of 56.5 and Holiday with 53%, but has a much higher estimated wins added at 8.1 to 2.3, while having a much higher usage rate (28.7 to 19.3).
03-29-2016, 02:44 PM
frankatank109

Quote:

Originally Posted by durun

Stats like eyes can be subjective. The fact is Gordon plays over five more minutes a game and takes 2.5 less attempts than Jrue though EG is a better shooter per efg%. In fact, EG ranks fifth for field goal attempts on this team and second in average minutes per game. That is way stats are important because numbers can confirm what we see.
As far as behavior, I see a player active in the community with the disadvantaged giving his monies and time. This from a player with his heart in Arizona and a player that NOLA dislikes.

Listen man if you want to argue about stats talk to The Dude, he is the one who is proving you wrong with stats. In fact maybe you keep meaning to reply to him, because you keep bringing up efg and stats, which has nothing at all to do with what I am talking about, the eye test on the court. Look at EGs body language and facial expressions over the past few years, I don't care whatever PR stunt his people have cooked up for him, he plainly doesn't want to be here. Watching him on the court is painful, his out of control drives to the hoop that always seem to go nowhere, his lack of willingness to make the extra pass or give the extra effort, things that don't show up on the stat sheet. Oh and btw if you're going to reply with blathering on about efg for the umpteenth time, don't bother.
03-30-2016, 08:38 AM
durun

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankatank109

Listen man if you want to argue about stats talk to The Dude, he is the one who is proving you wrong with stats. In fact maybe you keep meaning to reply to him, because you keep bringing up efg and stats, which has nothing at all to do with what I am talking about, the eye test on the court. Look at EGs body language and facial expressions over the past few years, I don't care whatever PR stunt his people have cooked up for him, he plainly doesn't want to be here. Watching him on the court is painful, his out of control drives to the hoop that always seem to go nowhere, his lack of willingness to make the extra pass or give the extra effort, things that don't show up on the stat sheet. Oh and btw if you're going to reply with blathering on about efg for the umpteenth time, don't bother.

What are your qualifications that you can mou read body language? EG leads the team in second pass assist. Your eyes failed if the stats don't match. If your observations were reliable and valid then they will match-up with stats. My point is that your eyes are not objective.
03-30-2016, 09:24 AM
Silverfoxx

DOES ANYONE HAS THE NBA DRAFT SIM LINK FOR ESPN??? I CANT FIND IT.
03-30-2016, 09:25 AM
durun

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Dude

.

Maybe you should review how PER is calculated. It has nothing to do with efficiency. It has to do with number of shots per minute and extrapolates. PER rewards volume not efficiency despite the name. In fact you noted another efficiency rating TS% with Gordon at 56%.

You point to the Pels being their best with Davis and Holiday, but best at what? This best didn't translate to wins! Last season this team earned a playoff spot with Evans. That's the most important stat of all, team victories. Secondly AD has regressed this season.
03-30-2016, 09:44 AM
Spaniard

Quote:

Originally Posted by durun

Maybe you should review how PER is calculated. It has nothing to do with efficiency. It has to do with number of shots per minute and extrapolates. PER rewards volume not efficiency despite the name. In fact you noted another efficiency rating TS% with Gordon at 56%.

You point to the Pels being their best with Davis and Holiday, but best at what? This best didn't translate to wins! Last season this team earned a playoff spot with Evans. That's the most important stat of all, team victories. Secondly AD has regressed this season.

Per is essentially positive production per minute on the court. If one player is greatly producing more per minute than another, it is not incorrect(nice double negative) to say he is more efficient. You are only focusing on flat out, black and white, shots and how often they go in. Per looks at most every other aspect of an NBA player. It's far from the end all, as no stat is. But it is much more all encompassing. Telling me Jodei Meeks shoots from deep better than Lebron James does not make him a more efficient player than Lebron James.
03-30-2016, 09:59 AM
Caffeinedisastr

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silverfoxx

DOES ANYONE HAS THE NBA DRAFT SIM LINK FOR ESPN??? I CANT FIND IT.

http://espn.go.com/nba/lottery2016/mockdraft
03-30-2016, 10:15 AM
durun

PER rewards inefficient and volume shooters and penalize well rounded player. Just wiki PER by Hollinger.

In USA Today, they have the Pels selecting Jaylen Brown with Hield still on the draft board. Brown reminds of a Reke that has a vertical.
03-30-2016, 10:15 AM
Caffeinedisastr

I think at this point my big board is:

Simmons
Ingram
Valentine
Hield
Brown

Luwawu will be a reach at 6, but
I think I'd be happy with any of them.
03-30-2016, 11:17 AM
Spaniard

Quote:

Originally Posted by durun

PER rewards inefficient and volume shooters and penalize well rounded player. Just wiki PER by Hollinger.

In USA Today, they have the Pels selecting Jaylen Brown with Hield still on the draft board. Brown reminds of a Reke that has a vertical.

That's just factually incorrect. It neither rewards inefficiency, nor does it penalize a well rounded player. It does weight towards offense more than defense, but mostly because defensive production is virtually impossible to quantify.

I'm amazed that you took the time to google PER, yet apparently did not read the whole thing.
03-30-2016, 11:35 AM
The Dude

Quote:

Originally Posted by durun

PER rewards inefficient and volume shooters and penalize well rounded player. Just wiki PER by Hollinger.

In USA Today, they have the Pels selecting Jaylen Brown with Hield still on the draft board. Brown reminds of a Reke that has a vertical.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spaniard

That's just factually incorrect. It neither rewards inefficiency, nor does it penalize a well rounded player. It does weight towards offense more than defense, but mostly because defensive production is virtually impossible to quantify.

I'm amazed that you took the time to google PER, yet apparently did not read the whole thing.

There is no point in arguing with this dude. He is either (1) an imbecile, (2) a troll, or (3) Eric Gordon. Either way, anyone who reads this can clearly see he doesn't know what he's talking about. While PER does have it's deficiencies, the guy literally just said that a stat called Player Efficiency Rating "has nothing to do with efficiency." /end discussion

(Edit: That's IN ADDITION to him actually comparing Jrue Holiday and Eric Gordon and concluding Gordon is a better player. There are no words to address that kind of insanity.)
03-30-2016, 12:59 PM
704Pelicanfan

Who's going to be this years Paul George, Klay Thompson, Kawhi Leonard, CJM*, Giannis Antetokounmpo*, Rudy Gobert*, Zach Lavine*, Jusuf Nurkic*, Rodney Hood*, Devin Booker*?

With this list, I established stars and young players on the rise, who were picked 10th or later.

*rising young players
03-30-2016, 01:37 PM
504ByrdGang

Quote:

Originally Posted by 704Pelicanfan

Who's going to be this years Paul George, Klay Thompson, Kawhi Leonard, CJM*, Giannis Antetokounmpo*, Rudy Gobert*, Zach Lavine*, Jusuf Nurkic*, Rodney Hood*, Devin Booker*?

With this list, I established stars and young players on the rise, who were picked 10th or later.

*rising young players

Timothe Luwawu
03-30-2016, 03:02 PM
gdf22

Nice piece on TBW today. It'd be incredible for us to get one of the top two picks, would be a total game changer for this franchise. Hield and Murray also sound like great picks but I was surprised by Murray's lack of length. Hopefully he's had a growth spurt and measures up better at the combine. Vut so long as we don't fall in the draft, then there should be plenty of great prospects for us.
03-30-2016, 03:13 PM
Silverfoxx

Quote:

Originally Posted by gdf22

Nice piece on TBW today. It'd be incredible for us to get one of the top two picks, would be a total game changer for this franchise. Hield and Murray also sound like great picks but I was surprised by Murray's lack of length. Hopefully he's had a growth spurt and measures up better at the combine. Vut so long as we don't fall in the draft, then there should be plenty of great prospects for us.

Link?
03-30-2016, 03:21 PM
gdf22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silverfoxx

Link?

http://www.thebirdwrites.com/2016/3/...s-ingram-brown

and

http://www.thebirdwrites.com/2016/3/...ld-murray-dunn
04-02-2016, 07:32 PM
704Pelicanfan

Anomaly for Hield or he's just human after all?

I've wanted Bender since last weekend or so, regardless.
04-02-2016, 08:52 PM
pmarpelicansfan

Quote:

Originally Posted by 704Pelicanfan

Anomaly for Hield or he's just human after all?

I've wanted Bender since last weekend or so, regardless.

Idk but I don't seem him going top 5 now. Not because of the bad game but because I feel like he had to perform well here and the championship game to get ranked that high.

If he played well this game and championship game he could've went 3rd.
04-02-2016, 09:38 PM
Eman5805

I hope to GOD that game knocks Hield down the rankings. Also that he's a senior and for some reason those 3 years matter a great deal.

I still think Kris Dunn is the best player under 6'6" in the draft because he does it on both ends of the court, but Hield would make me very happy.
04-02-2016, 10:01 PM
Bert123

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eman5805

I hope to GOD that game knocks Hield down the rankings. Also that he's a senior and for some reason those 3 years matter a great deal.

I still think Kris Dunn is the best player under 6'6" in the draft because he does it on both ends of the court, but Hield would make me very happy.

I am pulling for Dunn or Murray. I feel like Hield will be a good player but he struggles to create separation and he pushes off a lot. Also he isn't the best driver and when he isnt shooting great he struggles. Hield seems more to me like a Sacramento Kings kind of pick.
04-02-2016, 10:19 PM
HornetGuru

Anyone think Furkan Korkmaz would be a great fit?
04-02-2016, 10:22 PM
AUSSIE_PELICAN

Quote:

Originally Posted by HornetGuru

Anyone think Furkan Korkmaz would be a great fit?

As a SG maybe, but not as a SF
04-02-2016, 10:29 PM
AD23forMVP

Murray, Hield, Dunn, I don't care. Just get me one of those guys.
04-02-2016, 10:30 PM
HornetGuru

Quote:

Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN

As a SG maybe, but not as a SF

I was implying SG, way too thin for SF.

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