Game Thread: Hornets @ Spurs {Final Score-SA 106... Hornets 102}

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Originally Posted by jprdbulldog20

pacers at home... warriors at home... theres been some more worse than tonight. losing to a team that is 19-2 at home isn't anywhere near the worst loss of the year.. though it was certainly winnable

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Scoring only 62 points against the Sixers at home wasn't pretty either.

We do tend to go overboard on the dramatics sometimes though. :rolleyes: :hihi:

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Originally Posted by AD23forMVP

It's easier for a defense to defend a scorer when the team isn't setting up that guy.

In the first half there were multiple passes made before the ball made it's way to Gordon. By that time there was more spacing and not as much of a crowd. In the second half the ball made its way to Gordon off of dribble handoffs or flex cuts not really forcing the defense to move and extra defenders were able to commit to the ball.

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The problem with the Hornets defense rears its ugly head. The Hornets defense was designed to stop go-to players while forcing role players to make difficult shots. If there's one krytonite that has been consistent with Williams defense... it comes against teams who have multiple shooters and bigs who can pass out of the post. The Hornets struggle against great passing offense like Houston, GSW, Spurs, and etc..

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Originally Posted by HunnyB

Scoring only 62 points against the Sixers at home wasn't pretty either.

We do tend to go overboard on the dramatics sometimes though. :rolleyes: :hihi:

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yeah i tried to delete that game from my memory. but yeah. that was awful

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Originally Posted by jprdbulldog20

yeah i tried to delete that game from my memory. but yeah. that was awful

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Losing to the Spurs isn't nearly as bad as losing to the Wizards who hadn't won a road game until then. :idoh: This was hardly the worst loss of the season.

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Originally Posted by jprdbulldog20

pacers at home... warriors at home... theres been some more worse than tonight. losing to a team that is 19-2 at home isn't anywhere near the worst loss of the year.. though it was certainly winnable

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This is a rivalry game to me and we let them have the game. GS was bad and so was the pacers game, but this team was missing two key players and its head coach. They were considerably weakened and we let them steal the game bc of too many turnovers and empty posessions.

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Originally Posted by AD23forMVP

It's easier for a defense to defend a scorer when the team isn't setting up that guy.

In the first half there were multiple passes made before the ball made it's way to Gordon. By that time there was more spacing and not as much of a crowd. In the second half the ball made its way to Gordon off of dribble handoffs or flex cuts not really forcing the defense to move and extra defenders were able to commit to the ball.

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And to add to that these dribble handoffs I talked about consist of three offensive players in a five foot area.

So if you have three offensive players in a five foot area, how many total players do you have in such a small space?

SPACING. It's the key to basketball. And when you have a guy like Aminu it only makes matters worse.

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Originally Posted by HunnyB

Losing to the Spurs isn't nearly as bad as losing to the Wizards who hadn't won a road game until then. :idoh: This was hardly the worst loss of the season.

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76s is the worse but im speaking of post tank games (when gordon got back)

For those who say in the second half Vasquez didn't give ball to Gordon,

Man,
Gordon was 0-2 and had 3 turnovers in second half.

The team only had 25 points when the bench at one point for second half. Vasquez somehow had 10 alone.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

The ENTIRE load. Please at least put the argument in the best light and then attack it. Tony Parker got his own and created for others in that final stretch, accounting for 10 of the 12 Spurs points in that final run that won it. Gordon can get his own shot and hit at the end of games, but please dont confuse that with the truly elite closers in the league.

It is not an insult to say a player is not elite. He is very, very good. But if you were making a list of top closers in the NBA and you put Gordon in the top 5-8, then you are just being biased and optimistic IMO

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Gordon doesn't get the chance to carry the entire load. Monty won't run the offense through him, and we all know that he is more than capable. Parker can't do that night in and night out. The Spurs take turns putting weight on Parker, Ginobili, and Duncan. At this point in time, Gordon is by himself.

Again, I think you are being too sensational with your harping on Gordon. The guy isn't even fully healthy yet, and he's still putting up good numbers. He had 17 points in the 1st half on only 6 shots. That is phenomenal. Give him time. He hasn't played real basketball for almost 2 years.

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Originally Posted by HunnyB

Gordon should've had more than 8 shots.

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Exactly. We should be running the offense through him. Not Vasquez...

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Originally Posted by JJackisangry

This is a rivalry game to me and we let them have the game. GS was bad and so was the pacers game, but this team was missing two key players and its head coach. They were considerably weakened and we let them steal the game bc of too many turnovers and empty posessions.

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Again I will say that the Spurs not having Duncan was a slight blessing in disguise for them against us.

We did well against them the last game in NOLA when they tried to run offense through Duncan as part of their attack. Most of what I saw today (in the 2nd half) was them PnR'ing us to death and attacking our backcourt.

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

The one time I did see Gordon on him he pressured him well until he gambled for the steal and stopped moving his feet. He plays straight up D he can force him to give the rock up.

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Your right E, even if Monty does not want to have EG on Parker the entire game to protect his knee why not put your best defender on Parker with 6 minutes left in the game and at least attempt to give us a chance at stopping him? If we had any type of media coverage for the Hornets I sure wish someone would ask him this question and why put X in the game cold off the bench sitting for 1:30 into a tied game with 6 minutes remaining.

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Originally Posted by nolaslim213

Gordon doesn't get the chance to carry the entire load. Monty won't run the offense through him, and we all know that he is more than capable.

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Today at the end he did not very much, but as a generalized statement, I do not agree.

Plenty of times this season Gordon has been given the reigns as closer and as the person bringing the ball up and initiating offense.

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Originally Posted by jacklvyn

For those who say in the second half Vasquez didn't give ball to Gordon,

Man,
Gordon was 0-2 and had 3 turnovers in second half.

The team only had 25 points when the bench at one point for second half. Vasquez somehow had 10 alone.

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He should've had more than 2 shots in the 2nd half.

This is a young team. Horrid 2nd half. It happens. Im angry... Hurray Go pelicans... Whens the next game?

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Originally Posted by JJackisangry

This is a young team. Horrid 2nd half. It happens. Im angry... Hurray Go pelicans... Whens the next game?

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Friday @ home against Houston.

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Originally Posted by djpaul89

Today at the end he did not very much, but as a generalized statement, I do not agree.

Plenty of times this season Gordon has been given the reigns as closer and as the person bringing the ball up and initiating offense.

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Carrying the load at the end of the game isn't the same as running the offense all game. Gordon should start the offense 60% or more of the time, and he isn't anywhere near that.

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Originally Posted by HunnyB

He should've had more than 2 shots in the 2nd half.

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Well theoretically he would have had at least 5 (3 TO's)...right? right? *friendly jab*

And didn't he have a shot or two blocked?

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Originally Posted by HunnyB

Friday @ home against Houston.

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Cool thanks. God we gotta get started up again. We lost 2 very winnable games out of three. We need this one.

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Originally Posted by BuzzmanD

Your right E, even if Monty does not want to have EG on Parker the entire game to protect his knee why not put your best defender on Parker with 6 minutes left in the game and at least attempt to give us a chance at stopping him? If we had any type of media coverage for the Hornets I sure wish someone would ask him this question and why put X in the game cold off the bench sitting for 1:30 into a tied game with 6 minutes remaining.

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I'm not disagreeing that gordon at least should have had more time on parker but I am not seeing where this idea that he is a good defender is coming from, he gambles, gets beat off the dribble, and off the ball loses his man way too much. He has moments and capability but I'm not seeing it, he makes good plays but not enough to overshadow the mistakes he also makes. But that being said none of our other guards are that good of defenders either

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Originally Posted by djpaul89

Well theoretically he would have had at least 5 (3 TO's)...right? right? *friendly jab*

And didn't he have a shot or two blocked?

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I don't see any Block Attempts on the boxscore next to his name. (Unless they gave him turnovers instead of block attempts) ???? I don't know.

Heck, in the 4th quarter alone Vasquez was like 2-4 on his shots.

ETA: Do our threads reach 30 pages when we win? :hihi:

So, to clarify... I have CHAMPIONSHIP expectations long term. I dont care about the regular season. I watch the players every game and project them to playoff basketball, because that is all that matters to me and it is a totally different animal.

I dont go up and down with Aminu and Vasquez every game, because I realize the regular season is not playoff basketball and no matter how good Vasquez and Aminu might look on a random Thursday night when their opponent is in the middle of a grueling season, they will be severely limited when the playoffs come and that team only has to scout the Hornets and play the Hornets for 2 weeks. When you look at it that way, you can see the roster more clearly IMO.

On that note, I think of championship closers- Kobe, Parker, Wade, Pierce, Dirk, Billups, MJ, Durant (this year I predict), etc. and all I am saying is that Gordon is not on that level nor will he be.

Can he be a closer on a good team? Sure. Like Joe Johnson was for the Hawks and has been so far for the Nets. Sure. But I just don't see any way he gets to that elite level that a champion needs to have on its roster.

Is that an insult to Gordon? Is it going to be any less true when he is 100% healthy? Is that a sensational statement?

I think it is a very logical opinion and one we would all have if Gordon was on another team and not on ours. But maybe I am wrong

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Originally Posted by nolaslim213

Carrying the load at the end of the game isn't the same as running the offense all game. Gordon should start the offense 60% or more of the time, and he isn't anywhere near that.

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When I said "and as the person bringing the ball up initiating offense" I meant that as separate, meaning throughout the entire game. No, he doesn't do it 60% of the time. I think it happens at an OK rate...a little more often as a changeup to GV would be cool though. Maybe once he gets more stamina back we'll see it a little more? But 60%, don't think it needs to be THAT much...

I'm with AD23forMVP...I like how Gordon's in the offense for the most part, running a lot of weakside action for him to get the ball in good situations with plenty of spacing, able to call for a pick if he likes.

Results have been okay so far, I'd say. This game just had a "magnifyfing" effect, it seems. There's a nasty taste in my mouth too. But on another revenge-minded team in Houston...

On a unrelated note this game got Gordon to 40% on the season.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

So, to clarify... I have CHAMPIONSHIP expectations long term. I dont care about the regular season. I watch the players every game and project them to playoff basketball, because that is all that matters to me and it is a totally different animal.

I dont go up and down with Aminu and Vasquez every game, because I realize the regular season is not playoff basketball and no matter how good Vasquez and Aminu might look on a random Thursday night when their opponent is in the middle of a grueling season, they will be severely limited when the playoffs come and that team only has to scout the Hornets and play the Hornets for 2 weeks. When you look at it that way, you can see the roster more clearly IMO.

On that note, I think of championship closers- Kobe, Parker, Wade, Pierce, Dirk, Billups, MJ, Durant (this year I predict), etc. and all I am saying is that Gordon is not on that level nor will he be.

Can he be a closer on a good team? Sure. Like Joe Johnson was for the Hawks and has been so far for the Nets. Sure. But I just don't see any way he gets to that elite level that a champion needs to have on its roster.

Is that an insult to Gordon? Is it going to be any less true when he is 100% healthy? Is that a sensational statement?

I think it is a very logical opinion and one we would all have if Gordon was on another team and not on ours. But maybe I am wrong

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Couldn't agree with this anymore. Guys like Greivis Vasquez will look solid when you're not going up against guys like Tony Parker, Chris Paul, etc every night. You get breaks in the regular season and get to go up against guys like Isaiah Thomas.

The good news for Vasquez is he will only play those top 5 pg's 15-18 times a season. After those top 5 pg's it's a big cluster of good, avg, and so on. He is fine as long as he isn't your top 1-2- or 3 option.