Dream Finish to the Pelicans 2022 Offseason

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Originally Posted by AusPel

Why do Pistons take on more players with more guaranteed money for longer, when all 3 of our guys have negative value? (Hayes and Temple neutral at best)

What pick sweeteners are you throwing in?

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There’s no world in which Hayes has negative value. At worst it’s neutral. He’s on a 6 million dollar deal and you can just let him walk if he’s bad

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Also, to be clear, Hardaway wouldn?t be my first option. I think my first option now would be Olynyk and Burks for Graham, Temple, and Hayes. Then, KCP. But if nothing else was on the table and it was that trade vs roll into camp as is, it would be 50/50 for me. I would rather have Hardaway and EJ getting those 1400-1800 minutes throughout the season than Graham and Hayes. I?d also prefer Hardaways length for the playoffs. On the other side, I would be more than happy to just see what is available in February

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Would Burks have the recently traded restriction? So they'd have to wait 60 days to be traded again, right?

I guess Pistons could trade for Hayes for a value talent gamble, but with Bagley likely to be re-signed, Duren getting some developing minutes, Noel needing minutes in a contract year, if Stewart's still there -- Hayes would have to really earn minutes there.

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Originally Posted by Rheem654

Would Burks have the recently traded restriction? So they'd have to wait 60 days to be traded again, right?

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None of these deals are finalized, I believe, so they could just make it a three teamer

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Originally Posted by pelafanatic

None of these deals are finalized, I believe, so they could just make it a three teamer

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Correct. People need to remember that the deal is not finalized once it is announced on twitter. None of this becomes official for close to another week. Still time to work into deals

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Originally Posted by pelafanatic

There’s no world in which Hayes has negative value. At worst it’s neutral. He’s on a 6 million dollar deal and you can just let him walk if he’s bad

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Why isn't that also a reason for the Pelicans to just keep him? Is there legit concern that he's going to become a disruptive malcontent?

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

Why isn't that also a reason for the Pelicans to just keep him? Is there legit concern that he's going to become a disruptive malcontent?

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If they trade him, I would assume they are just trying to get assets for a player they have already decided is not in their future.

I dont think the Pels are against keeping Hayes for a little while. Its not a 'trade him at all costs' type of thing, but both parties know it has no future and that is never the ideal energy to bring into a locker room where everyone else is 100% bought in. Its one thing for a 33 year old to know he is on an expiring for a team, and is a lame duck of sorts. Another for a guy who thinks he is a budding star and has his whole future ahead of him. It goes both ways with Griff's "You are all in or all out" - in that when he knows there isnt a future for a player here, he also wants to do right by them if possible. He could just hold onto them and squeeze them for all they are worth, but ideally he would like to get them somewhere to give them the opportunity they seek. Not if it makes the team worse, obviously, but he wont just bury the kid if he has some solid option out there

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Originally Posted by pelafanatic

None of these deals are finalized, I believe, so they could just make it a three teamer

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Ahhh, I see, thanks. And we've seen Griff expand or jump in on 3 or 4 team trades before, so definitely possible.

I'll bet at that GM level, completing a solid 3 team trade is like an artist finishing a masterpiece, a musician completing a great song/album. The Jonas & Graham mega-deal last offseason was Griff's great piano symphony. Now I need to learn Photoshop to merge D. Griff with Beethoven / Motzart.

I like Hayes and Temple for Olynyk or Noel - where you give Detroit a little bit of cash to just cut Temple, so its basically a 1-for-1 for Detroit. And for us, it gives you a salary that basically lines up with Graham next year, so you have about 22-25 mil in expirings if you want to go big game hunting (yes, I know Graham has a little bit of money on the year after, but it can effectively be an expiring)

Shot making vs Rim Protection is a good debate for this team, as far as what would be more valuable. I would lean towards Noel, and hope EJ can be my small ball 5 shot maker. Gives me a lot of different bigs to play center by committee. Also, if its Noel, now I got about 5 or 6 million before I get to the lux tax and if there is a bargain guy out there that hasnt been scooped up by July 15th and is just getting minimum offers, I can offer him more and get some value. There are always a few guys like that at the end

I also like Hayes and Temple for Plumlee. Again, you open up some breathing room from the tax and can sign a guy who falls through the cracks in FA to give you some value. And if you dont love anyone, just give EJ the deal now

I’m a little confused. Isn’t Nance our small ball 5? I’d actually be curious to see he and Liddell paired in a speed front court line up. Both are long and have pretty good vertical pop, offering decent rim protection. With Zion and Jonas starting and Billy a pretty strong option for mop up duty, I’m not sure a sixth big is the target if we deal Hayes. I’d rather shot making.

OKC looking to use up some cap room to gain picks before the new league year. Would a 2nd and cash be enough to dump Temple there?

Is Hartenstein gettable at a reasonable price if they can create a roster spot?

Hey MM just curious you mentioned some in the FO thought Dieng could a taller Harden if everything hit right, and the FO had Daniels #5 on their board. What's the ceiling they think he could be? Any player comp?

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Originally Posted by new city champ

I?m a little confused. Isn?t Nance our small ball 5? I?d actually be curious to see he and Liddell paired in a speed front court line up. Both are long and have pretty good vertical pop, offering decent rim protection. With Zion and Jonas starting and Billy a pretty strong option for mop up duty, I?m not sure a sixth big is the target if we deal Hayes. I?d rather shot making.

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He can play some small-ball 5, but if you ship out Jax and want to play EJ, you can just as easily use Nance as a backup 4 for when Zion is off, or even as a kind of 'positionless' big wing type in bench lineups.

Last season he played, Zion + 4 bench guys was one of our best lineups; it absolutely shredded other bench units. I'd be curious to try that again, except instead of NAW/Jax/Hart/Kira/Zion, doing something like Dyson/Trey/Nance/Zion/Liddell. I feel like that unit would murder other bench units. Especially if Dyson's shooting comes around and/or Liddell's college shooting improvements hold up.

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Originally Posted by new city champ

I’m a little confused. Isn’t Nance our small ball 5? I’d actually be curious to see he and Liddell paired in a speed front court line up. Both are long and have pretty good vertical pop, offering decent rim protection. With Zion and Jonas starting and Billy a pretty strong option for mop up duty, I’m not sure a sixth big is the target if we deal Hayes. I’d rather shot making.

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Jonas goes down, I dont like starting Nance at the 5. Dont love starting Willy either. I think of centers like middle relievers, where you need all different types. Plumlee or Noel is just a different type of body and skill set to get you through the 82 game slog. Wouldnt see either of them helping in playoffs. And again, you make that deal, you open up the money to go get a value guy on the perimeter who might crack a playoff rotation

My goal honestly isn't to get a good player back. It's to clear a roster spot. If the player is good and can give the Pels minutes, great. I just want manageable salary and flexibility. If the player never plays a minute for the Pels, not an issue for me.

— Shamit Dua (@FearTheBrown) June 29, 2022

Word starting to circle around NBA front offices of a potential increase in the 2022-23 salary cap. Multiple teams have indicated the cap could raise as high as 10%, from a projected $122 million.

— Jake Fischer (@JakeLFischer) June 29, 2022

This is why clearing space this year and for future years never made sense to me. At some point, the cap was bound to rise drastically because of the new TV deal. Looks like the NBA has opted instead for a more subtle year to year approach after seeing the consequences of 2016.

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Originally Posted by Silverfoxx

Hey MM just curious you mentioned some in the FO thought Dieng could a taller Harden if everything hit right, and the FO had Daniels #5 on their board. What's the ceiling they think he could be? Any player comp?

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This is a weird one, but I heard..... Ben Simmons with a jumper and Chris Paul's heart

They arent sure he is done growing yet, and think he could get to 6'8 or 6'9". Also, think the jumper is going to be just fine. But they think he will eventually defend anybody 1-4 and can be amazing in transition, a great secondary play maker, and a good half court connector and finisher. All NBA defense and even a DPOY candidate a la Simmons

Mac, I need you to clear something up for me. Correct me if I'm wrong:

In this scenario they consolidate and give themselves the room under the tax. Pels can sign a player to the full MLE and go right up against the tax line, then sign Dyson Daniels to his rookie deal, thus bringing them into the luxury tax. Then, they would have until a certain date in the regular season to get out of the tax before having to pay it?

Using the MLE hard caps you and doesn’t allow for trickanery. Daniels salary is already factored into my equations. But I don’t think the team wants to use the non taxpayer MLE anyway. A small market team usually has to commit to 3 or 4 years to get that player. The tax payer MLE is a one or two year contract usually. I think it is far more likely they use that (if they use anything) than the Non taxpayer MLE

NEW — The Orlando Magic aren’t expected to tender a qualifying offer to Mo Bamba by the end of Wednesday, which will make him an unrestricted free agent on Thursday, a person with knowledge of the situation @orlandosports: https://t.co/hTddFu3WNW

— Khobi Price (@khobi_price) June 29, 2022

Bamba may well be available - what do you guys think his market is likely to be?

Article also says that Orlando is open to S&T, or even bringing him back potentially if chips fall right.

He looks like he will hav multiple suitors. Would have to commit to him for at least 3-4 years. Money likely in the 10-14 mil a year range. Just to take a gamble on a position where we are already solid. Pass. 2 years/15 mil, fine. 4 for 50 or 60? Nah

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

He looks like he will hav multiple suitors. Would have to commit to him for at least 3-4 years. Money likely in the 10-14 mil a year range. Just to take a gamble on a position where we are already solid. Pass. 2 years/15 mil, fine. 4 for 50 or 60? Nah

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Idk if I buy $10m+ if they're rejecting the QO. Makes me think they believe they can get him back for less, or that he won't get huge offers. If it's $14m a year, I wouldn't want him either but if it's like, sub-MLE money? Especially if you're already considering Jax's time here over? I'd go for it.

I think it will likely be a sign and trade a la Lonzo. They know he doesn’t wanna come back, will work out a S&T with all the teams competing for him. We shall see

Crowder for .... Hayes? Although Hayes RFA with Monty is a similar situation as Ayton.

The Suns have spoken to a handful of teams — including the Knicks, Heat, Cavs & Pelicans regarding a Jae Crowder trade, per league source.

— Ross (@LegionHoopsRoss) June 29, 2022

If we were to trade for Jae Crowder, I’d love to keep the f**k Jae Crowder chant around ironically

I really do not like Crowder at all.

Yea then I remembered all the playoff drama with Crowder, lol. Still, he's a solid vet on an expiring contract. But not sure if it makes much sense, seems more likely he goes to Miami to replace Tucker.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

I think it will likely be a sign and trade a la Lonzo. They know he doesn?t wanna come back, will work out a S&T with all the teams competing for him. We shall see

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Bamba S&T for Hayes makes some sense for them. They get back a more athletic project big on a 1 year try-out deal. Pels could add a 2nd to close that deal and/or take on Temple's contract, too.

People talk about blocking our perimeter guys. To me, I’d rather block Kira and Jose than EJ (if I had to choose one). I just wouldn’t go after Mo, In almost any situation

The Pelicans will regret adding long-term money if they decide to do that. I would hate to be painted into a corner where it's difficult to be able to re-sign, for instance, Herb Jones because you signed Mo Bamba to 4 years.

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Originally Posted by pelafanatic

If we were to trade for Jae Crowder, I’d love to keep the f**k Jae Crowder chant around ironically

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I guess we’d need to add a comma?

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

People talk about blocking our perimeter guys. To me, I’d rather block Kira and Jose than EJ (if I had to choose one). I just wouldn’t go after Mo, In almost any situation

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Does Bamba block EJ? Would he not fill the same role that Noel or Plumlee would? At least he is young and may have a future. He provides rim protection and a little bit of perimeter shooting. I would not touch him at $10 million a year, but at $7-$8 million I may consider it as insurance for JV.

What is the advantage of Orlando not giving him a QO? Are they concerned he may sign it and tie up a roster spot?

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I really do not like Crowder at all.

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Yeah, cannot stand him. I would not want him on this team at all.

I would have Plumlee here for 1 yr and be totally good DNP’ing him if EJ shows he can handle small ball 5

You trade for Mo on a 4 yr, that’s not a viable option.Orlando didn’t offer him a QO because his cap hold is massive if they do

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

I would have Plumlee here for 1 yr and be totally good DNP’ing him if EJ shows he can handle small ball 5

You trade for Mo on a 4 yr, that’s not a viable option.Orlando didn’t offer him a QO because his cap hold is massive if they do

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Same reason we won't tender Jax one (20mil)

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

I would have Plumlee here for 1 yr and be totally good DNP’ing him if EJ shows he can handle small ball 5

You trade for Mo on a 4 yr, that’s not a viable option.Orlando didn’t offer him a QO because his cap hold is massive if they do

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I don't think that's the only reason.

Orlando has emerged as a leading suitor for Clippers free agent big man Isaiah Hartenstein, league sources say.

More NBA from me: https://t.co/A6ycVmnrjq

— Marc Stein (@TheSteinLine) June 29, 2022

Really sounds like they've got eyes elsewhere.

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

Yeah, cannot stand him. I would not want him on this team at all.

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One of the underrated things about this team right now is that, for the most part, the roster and coach are people I find at least superficially likable and therefore I can root for them without feeling conflicted that there's someone on the team I hate. Of course, maybe Ingram is secretly a homophobe or Zion sneers at the homeless, I don't know, but I doubt it. So even if it makes the team better, I'd hate acquiring someone who soured that for me and made me actually resent part of the team. No Crowder please.

The thing is, if JV stays healthy, you want to be running small ball in the non-JV units anyway. The regular season formula for success seems to be a super deep, athletic, switchy team. Most good teams only played one center to take the brunt and the fouls. Otherwise, they ran relatively small. Heat, Bucks, Raptors, Grizzlies, Mavericks, Nuggets just to name a few. I think I'm learning towards just being fine with Willy as the backup 5 who gets DNPs unless JV goes down. If JV goes down for an extended period of time, then you go overpay for a Javale Mcgee or something if you think its necessary

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I don't think that's the only reason.

Orlando has emerged as a leading suitor for Clippers free agent big man Isaiah Hartenstein, league sources say.

More NBA from me: https://t.co/A6ycVmnrjq

— Marc Stein (@TheSteinLine) June 29, 2022

Really sounds like they've got eyes elsewhere.

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And how do you think you sign a Hartenstein if you have Bamba's massive hold on the books? He would have killed all their chances to chase FA's. Now, they could actually sign Hartenstein and Bamba if they wanted to. They wont but they could. You give Bamba the QO and there is no path to Hartenstein, or any real FA for that matter

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Originally Posted by AusPel

Same reason we won't tender Jax one (20mil)

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Wouldnt be the same because we wouldnt have any cap room regardless, so it wouldnt matter what our cap hold would be. Only matters if you are looking to be a cap space team and we wouldnt be that

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Wouldnt be the same because we wouldnt have any cap room regardless, so it wouldnt matter what our cap hold would be. Only matters if you are looking to be a cap space team and we wouldnt be that

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Thanks for that

I thought they were about $40 million under the cap. May they are trying to make a run at a bigger player.

Christian Clark is skeptical a deal with Zion gets done quickly. Who is surprised

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Originally Posted by pelafanatic

Christian Clark is skeptical a deal with Zion gets done quickly. Who is surprised

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Christian Clark has no sources.

Listening to his pod the last couple weeks really makes me wonder what happened between he and the Zion camp. “Some people think Zion’s injury history is worse than Embiid’s was at this point in his career” is just an absurd statement from a guy that covers the team and makes a Pels podcast

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Originally Posted by pelafanatic

Christian Clark is skeptical a deal with Zion gets done quickly. Who is surprised

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Kevin O'Connor says the opposite, as does Woj. So there's that.

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Originally Posted by pelafanatic

Listening to his pod the last couple weeks really makes me wonder what happened between he and the Zion camp. “Some people think Zion’s injury history is worse than Embiid’s was at this point in his career” is just an absurd statement from a guy that covers the team and makes a Pels podcast

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Yea, seems like a case of someone who wanted to make a name by dropping a big inside story scoop (Griff plays piano for Z), and then when that 1 report was refuted and laughed at by those involved - not a great start for a NBA team sports-writing career. And I'm sure any potential 'sources' have frozen him out after that.

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Originally Posted by pelafanatic

“Some people think Zion’s injury history is worse than Embiid’s was at this point in his career” is just an absurd statement from a guy that covers the team and makes a Pels podcast

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Yeah that's insane. Of course Zion's had a ton of injuries to start his career - or rather, a few injuries that have taken ages to recover each time - but Joel had played a total of 31 games at this point in his career (3 seasons in) and was 23 before he played a season with more than 40 games played. Zion's played 85 games total in 3 seasons (more than twice Joel) and played 61 games in his second season, aged 20.

No questioning that Zion's had injury problems early - it's undeniable. But worse than Joel? Come on now.

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Originally Posted by pelafanatic

Christian Clark is skeptical a deal with Zion gets done quickly. Who is surprised

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Christian Clark is the biggest ************bag that covers this team. He is the absolute worst. I wouldn't blame Zion's camp for not liking him after all the bull******** he spews on a regular basis.