October 29th - New Orleans Pelicans vs Sacramento Kings - 1-4

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Originally Posted by As I See It

and....

The starting guards had a whopping 4 assist between them. Ingram is working for everything he gets and still dishes out six assists.

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Agreed.. across the board everyone needs to be better. Including the guards. Maybe NAW just shouldn't be expected to be a facilitator. Just doesn't seem like it's going to be his thing. I don't know enough about Devonte's game to have any expectations outside of him being able to hit open 3's.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Nowhere am I putting the full blame on any individual there. Just listing the reality: we have a bunch of guys who shot real badly tonight, some of them for several nights (NAW) and that's going to lose you a bunch of games.

A big part of it is just everyone having to play more of a role than they should be and it's showing. Ingram is currently averaging 22FGAs a game. There are very few players on very few teams who should ever be taking 22 shots a night consistently, and he's not one of them. NAW is currently taking 16FGAs a game. That's just too much, he shouldn't be taking that many shots a night.

But they have to, because the shots have to come from somewhere and we're obviously missing someone.

Zion should be watching this going on for game after game, where we lose by a winnable margin in a game where everyone is just slightly overextended offensively, and he should be taking it very personally and using it as fuel to come back as soon as possible and to hit as hard as possible upon return. Him being out is forcing everyone else into a position they just don't need to be in.

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Yes, Zion is to blame for all of this, if we gonna put some blame on somebody, but I still think the team has to find a way to win even w/o him.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Nowhere am I putting the full blame on any individual there. Just listing the reality: we have a bunch of guys who shot real badly tonight, some of them for several nights (NAW) and that's going to lose you a bunch of games.

A big part of it is just everyone having to play more of a role than they should be and it's showing. Ingram is currently averaging 22FGAs a game. There are very few players on very few teams who should ever be taking 22 shots a night consistently, and he's not one of them. NAW is currently taking 16FGAs a game. That's just too much, he shouldn't be taking that many shots a night.

But they have to, because the shots have to come from somewhere and we're obviously missing someone.

Zion should be watching this going on for game after game, where we lose by a winnable margin in a game where everyone is just slightly overextended offensively, and he should be taking it very personally and using it as fuel to come back as soon as possible and to hit as hard as possible upon return. Him being out is forcing everyone else into a position they just don't need to be in.

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NAW remains an enigma for me.. We see the highlights and stretches where he looks like a stud with a lot of potential. We also see stretches where he reminds you of a less erratic version of Westbrook. At this point I'm not sure what to make of him. But maybe you're right about Zion putting everyone in their natural positions. Which would elevate their level of play.

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Originally Posted by PELSGIRL

Yes, Zion is to blame for all of this, if we gonna put some blame on somebody, but I still think the team has to find a way to win even w/o him.

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I don't think it's a blame thing, it's not like he broke his foot on purpose. But that shouldn't matter, he should recognise that if he was on the court tonight we likely would have won. And that's also true for other games that we've lost so far this year. And he should take that personally. That doesn't mean taking blame, because what's done is done, but it should inspire his actions with regards to the future. Maximum effort, maximum dedication, maximum everything, please.

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Originally Posted by PELSGIRL

I kinda agree w/ this but some of NAW shots have been wide open and he's just missing them. As far as coaching, yes, Green needs to change it up, starting w/ moving NAW to the bench.

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I like NAW, but it's hard to defend him at present lol.. I can understand your frustration.

That's why I was wondering why everyone wanted NAW to be a starter. We still don't know what we have w/ him b/c he hasn't shown us he can be consistent.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I don't think it's a blame thing, it's not like he broke his foot on purpose. But that shouldn't matter, he should recognise that if he was on the court tonight we likely would have won. And that's also true for other games that we've lost so far this year. And he should take that personally. That doesn't mean taking blame, because what's done is done, but it should inspire his actions with regards to the future. Maximum effort, maximum dedication, maximum everything, please.

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Lol. I understand what you're saying and I hope you're right.

BI isn't taking too many FGs. This would have been an even bigger blowout if he hadn't taken 22 of them. And as I keep saying HE NEEDS TO BE SHOOTING MORE NOT LESS.

Where would this game have been if he hadn't brought the team back in the 3rd? He's doing his part. Going 9 - 22 isn't nearly as bad as going 7 - 30 like some other names people on here seem to love. But of course when BI does it, then it's a problem.

This wasn't a talent loss. Sad to say, Willie Green got outcoached. Sacramento kept running the same action at the key over and over and over and there was never an adjustment. Pelicans bigs just kept dropping and dropping. Jaxson damn near dropped under the rim once.

That's why they lost. And that's something this coaching staff needs to fix.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Zion should be watching this going on for game after game, where we lose by a winnable margin in a game where everyone is just slightly overextended offensively, and he should be taking it very personally and using it as fuel to come back as soon as possible and to hit as hard as possible upon return. Him being out is forcing everyone else into a position they just don't need to be in.

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The only thing he should be taking personally is an interest in his diet.

The biggest ability of Zion that has been on display for the last three years is his continuous unavailability.

Zion doesn't change the result.. There are only so many shots to go around. Especially, the putrid free throw %

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Originally Posted by luckyman

BI isn't taking too many FGs. This would have been an even bigger blowout if he hadn't taken 22 of them. And as I keep saying HE NEEDS TO BE SHOOTING MORE NOT LESS.

Where would this game have been if he hadn't brought the team back in the 3rd? He's doing his part. Going 9 - 22 isn't nearly as bad as going 7 - 30 like some other names people on here seem to love. But of course when BI does it, then it's a problem.

This wasn't a talent loss. Sad to say, Willie Green got outcoached. Sacramento kept running the same action at the key over and over and over and there was never an adjustment. Pelicans bigs just kept dropping and dropping. Jaxson damn near dropped under the rim once.

That's why they lost. And that's something this coaching staff needs to fix.

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:thumbup:

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Originally Posted by Nichols

NAW remains an enigma for me.. We see the highlights and stretches where he looks like a stud with a lot of potential. We also see stretches where he reminds you of a less erratic version of Westbrook. At this point I'm not sure what to make of him. But maybe you're right about Zion putting everyone in their natural positions. Which would elevate their level of play.

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I think about it this way: right now we're taking roughly 90 shots a game. That's about middle of the league in terms of shots per game, so it's not high or low, really.

Assuming Zion comes back and takes roughly the number of shots he took per game last year (17 per game) then all of a sudden, guys like Ingram don't need to take 22 and NAW doesn't need to take 16. They can take 18 and 12 respectively, for example, and that would mean they could be more selective about the shots they take and get to take them with the benefit of a Zion attracting defensive attention in a way that nobody currently active on the roster does. Suddenly the job gets easier, for everyone involved. Obviously these numbers are just speculative, I'm not trying to prescribe how many shots should be taken from whom to allocate to Zion when he returns, it's just to demonstrate the point.

I feel kind of frustrated with NAW for the reasons you've mentioned. When he's at his best, he's driving a lot, being selective with his 3s, playmaking from the paint, and defending well. When he's at his worst, he's going 2/11 from deep, avoiding the paint for some reason, and getting beaten on easy defensive plays and rotations. Which is the real NAW? I hope the former, and maybe he'll be that more consistently with less offensive load, but at some point you'd hope he figure some of it out regardless, right?

I like Willie, but this franchise is in real trouble...absolutely zero positive vibe. It's like a slow death. At some point people will start to talk. And to think we were once THE fun franchise. Can it turn around? I sure hope so but what do I know?

https://render.fineartamerica.com/im...ated-cover.jpg

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Originally Posted by Taker597

Zion doesn't change the result.. There are only so many shots to go around. Especially, the putrid free throw %

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True we have to do better at the free throw line but Zion surely takes away some of the shots NAW is taking.

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Originally Posted by Nichols

He has to be better, but I don't like the idea of expecting him to win games for us in the fourth by having him iso and work his ****** off for a shot every time.

A competent offensive scheme should be in place to facilitate better looks for everyone.

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I mean, to a degree that's what happens at the end of games (particularly playoff games) the opposing team whittles your offense down to your best player, and the best player has to consistently work his matchups and generate looks for himself or others. Now it's tough because even if BI is playing largely isolation ball it's still a 5-5 game and the other players on the team have to react and position themselves to score if their man comes to help the on-ball defender or they rotate off a defensive breakdown, and the also have to be able, to, you know, score in those situations, and it seems like all around everyone is struggling to hit open shots. And then that just makes it harder for BI to generate his own looks because guys are just being played off of and not capitalizing on that.

But even so, I think, sadly, BI just isn't that guy yet. Not aggressive/assertive enough, too many mental lapses, mechanical play style, etc. He's still damn good but we need Zion back, and I'm not saying that to promote an agenda, I'm literally saying we need our best player back to make things easier for our #2 (and everyone else as well). I can't really blame coaching for guys just not making shots or being able to takeover games.

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Originally Posted by luckyman

BI isn't taking too many FGs. This would have been an even bigger blowout if he hadn't taken 22 of them. And as I keep saying HE NEEDS TO BE SHOOTING MORE NOT LESS.

Where would this game have been if he hadn't brought the team back in the 3rd? He's doing his part. Going 9 - 22 isn't nearly as bad as going 7 - 30 like some other names people on here seem to love. But of course when BI does it, then it's a problem.

This wasn't a talent loss. Sad to say, Willie Green got outcoached. Sacramento kept running the same action at the key over and over and over and there was never an adjustment. Pelicans bigs just kept dropping and dropping. Jaxson damn near dropped under the rim once.

That's why they lost. And that's something this coaching staff needs to fix.

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You are right. His value to the team (even in this game) is easily measured. Tonight, when he was on the court, the team was a +6 (the best of all the starters).

No one should question what Ingram means to this team!!!

We need to draft a lead guard or we need to make a trade for one.

as some of yall say...zion will save the season..

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Originally Posted by WildlifeAirGrp

I like Willie, but this franchise is in real trouble...absolutely zero positive vibe. It's like a slow death. At some point people will start to talk. And to think we were once THE fun franchise. Can it turn around? I sure hope so but what do I know?

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The vibe won't change until the team starts winning. You don't do it backwards. There's no positive vibe on any team that's 1-5, fam. The franchise is in trouble? Of what?

I'm rolling with the punches. I'll still be here no matter what.

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Originally Posted by PELSGIRL

We need to draft a lead guard or we need to make a trade for one.

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No, according to most, our lead point is the 320 pounder sitting on the end of the bench at present. When he comes back, he'll walk on water for us and lead us to paradise.

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Originally Posted by Funcrusher

I mean, to a degree that's what happens at the end of games (particularly playoff games) the opposing team whittles your offense down to your best player, and the best player has to consistently work his matchups and generate looks for himself or others. Now it's tough because even if BI is playing largely isolation ball it's still a 5-5 game and the other players on the team have to react and position themselves to score if their man comes to help the on-ball defender or they rotate off a defensive breakdown, and the also have to be able, to, you know, score in those situations, and it seems like all around everyone is struggling to hit open shots. And then that just makes it harder for BI to generate his own looks because guys are just being played off of and not capitalizing on that.

But even so, I think, sadly, BI just isn't that guy yet. Not aggressive/assertive enough, too many mental lapses, mechanical play style, etc. He's still damn good but we need Zion back, and I'm not saying that to promote an agenda, I'm literally saying we need our best player back to make things easier for our #2 (and everyone else as well). I can't really blame coaching for guys just not making shots or being able to takeover games.

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It's hard to place blame on Ingram. The offensive load he's currently playing under is huge, and more than almost anyone else plays under. He's taking tons of shots while also acting as lead guard, while playing some of the largest minutes in the NBA (coming into tonight, he was joint 5th in minutes played so far this season). Hard to blame him for having mental lapses when he's under that much pressure.

I totally agree that we need Zion back, largely because having him back also gives us Ingram back as well. That is, it gives us an Ingram who can afford to pick his spots a bit more selectively, who can concentrate on playing his game, instead of being forced to try and be Bradley Beal.

Positive note though: Herb is awesome, and if he keeps this up I'd consider keeping him in the starting lineup when Zion comes back. Would love for Trey to make his way in there as well

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

It's hard to place blame on Ingram. The offensive load he's currently playing under is huge, and more than almost anyone else plays under. He's taking tons of shots while also acting as lead guard, while playing some of the largest minutes in the NBA (coming into tonight, he was joint 5th in minutes played so far this season). Hard to blame him for having mental lapses when he's under that much pressure.

I totally agree that we need Zion back, largely because having him back also gives us Ingram back as well. That is, it gives us an Ingram who can afford to pick his spots a bit more selectively, who can concentrate on playing his game, instead of being forced to try and be Bradley Beal.

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Faaaaaaaair point. I didn't want to make it seem like I was being to hard on B.I. because I think, as you said, his offensive load atm is incredibly high. But i do think it's clear he's not a #1 (yet). Whcih is totally fine, and asking him to be that this soon (or at all) is probably way unfair

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Originally Posted by Funcrusher

I mean, to a degree that's what happens at the end of games (particularly playoff games) the opposing team whittles your offense down to your best player, and the best player has to consistently work his matchups and generate looks for himself or others. Now it's tough because even if BI is playing largely isolation ball it's still a 5-5 game and the other players on the team have to react and position themselves to score if their man comes to help the on-ball defender or they rotate off a defensive breakdown, and the also have to be able, to, you know, score in those situations, and it seems like all around everyone is struggling to hit open shots. And then that just makes it harder for BI to generate his own looks because guys are just being played off of and not capitalizing on that.

But even so, I think, sadly, BI just isn't that guy yet. Not aggressive/assertive enough, too many mental lapses, mechanical play style, etc. He's still damn good but we need Zion back, and I'm not saying that to promote an agenda, I'm literally saying we need our best player back to make things easier for our #2 (and everyone else as well). I can't really blame coaching for guys just not making shots or being able to takeover games.

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You're right, in the playoffs.. set plays become more difficult to execute. With that being said, with other viable threats on the court, there's more space for whoever is isoing to get a shot off. This isn't the case with BI.. With Zion back, things should be easier though.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

It's hard to place blame on Ingram. The offensive load he's currently playing under is huge, and more than almost anyone else plays under. He's taking tons of shots while also acting as lead guard, while playing some of the largest minutes in the NBA (coming into tonight, he was joint 5th in minutes played so far this season). Hard to blame him for having mental lapses when he's under that much pressure.

I totally agree that we need Zion back, largely because having him back also gives us Ingram back as well. That is, it gives us an Ingram who can afford to pick his spots a bit more selectively, who can concentrate on playing his game, instead of being forced to try and be Bradley Beal.

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as of right now,,zion,,jonas and graham will make ingram life easy.....naw needs to go to the bench and be the spark we need there...

graham,,ingram,,herb,,zion,,jonas...should be the starting lineup when zion get back...

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Originally Posted by Nichols

You're right, in the playoffs.. set plays become more difficult to execute. With that being said, with other viable threats on the court, there's more space for whoever is isoing to get a shot off. This isn't the case with BI.. With Zion back, things should be easier though.

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Agreed. I'm starting to get the feeling we're destined for another mid-lotto record if he doesn't come back soon.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I think about it this way: right now we're taking roughly 90 shots a game. That's about middle of the league in terms of shots per game, so it's not high or low, really.

Assuming Zion comes back and takes roughly the number of shots he took per game last year (17 per game) then all of a sudden, guys like Ingram don't need to take 22 and NAW doesn't need to take 16. They can take 18 and 12 respectively, for example, and that would mean they could be more selective about the shots they take and get to take them with the benefit of a Zion attracting defensive attention in a way that nobody currently active on the roster does. Suddenly the job gets easier, for everyone involved. Obviously these numbers are just speculative, I'm not trying to prescribe how many shots should be taken from whom to allocate to Zion when he returns, it's just to demonstrate the point.

I feel kind of frustrated with NAW for the reasons you've mentioned. When he's at his best, he's driving a lot, being selective with his 3s, playmaking from the paint, and defending well. When he's at his worst, he's going 2/11 from deep, avoiding the paint for some reason, and getting beaten on easy defensive plays and rotations. Which is the real NAW? I hope the former, and maybe he'll be that more consistently with less offensive load, but at some point you'd hope he figure some of it out regardless, right?

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It's the same frustration a lot of us Laker fans had with Ball, Clarkson, Randle, Ingram, and Kuzma. All of those guys figured it out.. outside of Kuzma. lol. I try not to give up on young talented players who show signs of elite play.

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Originally Posted by Funcrusher

Faaaaaaaair point. I didn't want to make it seem like I was being to hard on B.I. because I think, as you said, his offensive load atm is incredibly high. But i do think it's clear he's not a #1 (yet). Whcih is totally fine, and asking him to be that this soon (or at all) is probably way unfair

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It is unfair, and he's doing the best he can and (largely) doing a pretty good job of it, so you have to praise him for that. Doesn't mean it makes us win anymore games though.

Which is why Zion needs to get things on track. Jones fractures usually take about 10-11 weeks on average for an NBA player to return to the court. For Zion, it'll be about 12 weeks this Sunday since Summer League, and we got told he had the surgery before then. So we can assume it's now been at least 12 weeks for his recovery - unless something has gone wrong during the recovery process, he should be able to be back on court within the next few weeks. Even if he can only play 20 or 25 minutes a night for the first dozen games, that will be enough to add some pop to bench lineups and take a bit of the pressure off Ingram at the start of games, which will be huge.

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Originally Posted by Funcrusher

Positive note though: Herb is awesome, and if he keeps this up I'd consider keeping him in the starting lineup when Zion comes back. Would love for Trey to make his way in there as well

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I actually think Herb will be better than Murphy. Already has more to his game. Isn't afraid of getting to the rack

I'm not one to make a big deal about Zion's weight. It's not something I comment on. I know there's debate among a lot of you here as to whether or not it's a issue.

With that being said.. moving forward. Considering he's a high fly act/above the rim player. I'd like to see him trim down a bit to preserve his career, and put less pressure on those ligaments and joints.

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Originally Posted by AusPel

I actually think Herb will be better than Murphy. Already has more to his game. Isn't afraid of getting to the rack

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THIS!!!

Also I'll say Ingram improving offensive metrics is not what's going to bring him to another level either. At this point, it's all about becoming a better and more consistent defensive player. Then also closing out games in the 4th. And his defense has been levels better so far this year.

All his other metrics could take a slight step back and he'd still have climbed a level if he does those other two things.

That being said, at this point, he needs to be given the green light to go for 40 almost every night. That's until the young guys grow up and the new guys get more comfortable running half court sets.


And none of that matters, including getting Zion back, if opposing guards keep coming off screens and into wide open space. That was poor defense at the end and it cost them.

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Originally Posted by PELSGIRL

Yeah, I know it's tough but Willie Green has to do something different now. 1-5 is not a good look.

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Man stop it. If we had our other star we easily would be 4-2 or better. A whole new world of difference with oppennets having to double our low post and having wide open three's.

24/25 to 16/25 in free throws...hell, jonas was 24/24 shooting 100% at the free throw line then miss 3 straight tonight...

this team has alot of fight in them so all is not lost....imo if zion was playing i think we would be 5-1...at the same time, if my grandmother had balls she would be my grand father lol....

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Originally Posted by sterlr

Man stop it. If we had our other star we easily would be 4-2 or better. A whole new world of difference with oppennets having to double our low post and having wide open three's.

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This is easy to say but the truth is we don't have him so we have to get better w/o him right now.

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Originally Posted by 6warddude

24/25 to 16/25 in free throws...hell, jonas was 24/24 shooting 100% at the free throw line then miss 3 straight tonight...

this team has alot of fight in them so all is not lost....imo if zion was playing i think we would be 5-1...at the same time, if my grandmother had balls she would be my grand father lol....

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:hihi:

They are competing and that's generally all I'm asking for while Zion is out. They are improving at a rapid pace but we are seeing some consistency issues of a newly put together roster and coach. It's going to take some time to get to a point where we will put it all together and pull out some more wins... but we are progressing a lot faster than I expected.

So Paul George just dropped 42 and the Clippers still lost by 19.

After the first game, Eric Bledsoe has scored 12,7,6, and 3 points on 25% shooting.

And Paul George was 6 - 20 their last game.

Clips are now 1 - 4.

We aint the only ones going through it.

I never understand this mentality of fans where their team is playing bad or a player is playing bad and then they look to other teams or players and say "they are playing bad too" or "they are playing worse" as a way to make themselves feel better. The goal isn't to not be the worst. It is to be the best. Yes, the Pelicans situation could be worse. They could have Bledsoe instead of Graham. They could have more drama like Nets have with Kyrie or Philly has with Simmons. Their star could be out longer like Clips with Kawhi

Yes, it could be worse. Others are struggling too. But how should that make us feel better? The team is bad and the goal is not to not be the worst.

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Originally Posted by HerbJonesFan

I never understand this mentality of fans where their team is playing bad or a player is playing bad and then they look to other teams or players and say "they are playing bad too" or "they are playing worse" as a way to make themselves feel better. The goal isn't to not be the worst. It is to be the best. Yes, the Pelicans situation could be worse. They could have Bledsoe instead of Graham. They could have more drama like Nets have with Kyrie or Philly has with Simmons. Their star could be out longer like Clips with Kawhi

Yes, it could be worse. Others are struggling too. But how should that make us feel better? The team is bad and the goal is not to not be the worst.

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It's nothing to do with feeling better or worse, it's just acknowledging reality.

We are a basketball team missing our best player. What happens to basketball teams without their best player? They lose a lot. Doesn't matter who they are, or what season it is, the vast vast majority of basketball teams that lose a top 20 player go on to not win very much. If that makes you feel better, then sure you can use it as consolation if you need, but that's not why we point it out.

Clippers this year without Kawhi? 1-5 record.
2020-21 Sixers without Embiid? Sub .500 team
2016 Cavs without Lebron? 1-6 record.
2018-19 Warriors without Curry? Sub .500 team, 5-8 record.
2007-08 Cavs without Lebron? 0-7 record.
2006-7 Suns record without Nash? 2-4.

Doesn't make you feel better, but it's just the truth. What else do you expect to happen? Is it ''trying to make yourself feel better'' to acknowledge that this is just the reality of the situation? If anything, it feels more like self-flagellation, trying to make yourself feel worse on purpose to get all dramatic and upset about it.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

It's nothing to do with feeling better or worse, it's just acknowledging reality.

We are a basketball team missing our best player. What happens to basketball teams without their best player? They lose a lot. Doesn't matter who they are, or what season it is, the vast vast majority of basketball teams that lose a top 20 player go on to not win very much. If that makes you feel better, then sure you can use it as consolation if you need, but that's not why we point it out.

Clippers this year without Kawhi? 1-5 record.
2020-21 Sixers without Embiid? Sub .500 team
2016 Cavs without Lebron? 1-6 record.
2018-19 Warriors without Curry? Sub .500 team, 5-8 record.
2007-08 Cavs without Lebron? 0-7 record.
2006-7 Suns record without Nash? 2-4.

Doesn't make you feel better, but it's just the truth. What else do you expect to happen? Is it ''trying to make yourself feel better'' to acknowledge that this is just the reality of the situation? If anything, it feels more like self-flagellation, trying to make yourself feel worse on purpose to get all dramatic and upset about it.

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Okay, but when Zion comes back, this will still be a middle of the pack team or maybe slightly worse. I actually think him being gone helps you guys because now you get to use him being gone as a reason the losses are piling up, and live in this fantasy world where they would have won all these games if he was here. I am curious what the rhetoric will be when he returns and this team is still nothing special. My guess is it will be the same old "poor coaching" or "refs are against us" fan stuff. But we shall see

You can't fast track a young and inexperienced team with a new coach, new offense, new players, and an injury to your star player in the same breath. The margin for error is extremely low right now. They are going to have to take their lumps and get better over time. The progression has been good. The defense is doing something I didn't think they'd be able to do this early on. We're basically the 2019-2020 Suns right now. It's going to take time before they sort out some of these issues.

I just don't like the idea that when Zion comes back, everyone else will stay the same or get better and you are adding Zion on top of that. Guys will get worse too. I have seen it a ton of times. They put more pressure on themselves or they go from touching it every possession to touching it every 3rd possession and that effects their shot. Basketball is the one sport that is not additive. You don't just add a 30 to a team that is a 65 and have a 95 team. You lose things too. This is a slightly below average team with Zion that is very below average without him. This isn't a 4-2 or 5-1 team that is 1-5 without him. All those guys the poster above listed effect the game on BOTH sides of the ball and/or they create a substantial amount of offense for others. Zion might do that some day, he doesnt do it now. He is more like a big Zach LaVine from last year. Scores a bunch - elite at that. But your team can lose with him or lose without him. Zion wont be the difference maker you guys seem to think he will be until he massively effects both sides of the ball and/or he becomes an elite creator of offense for other people

I think the issue here is that you feel like people think this is a 50 win team with Zion. That's not the case in my eye. This is a transition year for the team with all of these moving parts that need to learn how to work with one another. .500 record is where you want them to be by the end of the year. Anything better would be just gravy. If a .500 record gets you in the play in, it's a successful season.

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Originally Posted by HerbJonesFan

I just don't like the idea that when Zion comes back, everyone else will stay the same or get better and you are adding Zion on top of that. Guys will get worse too. I have seen it a ton of times. They put more pressure on themselves or they go from touching it every possession to touching it every 3rd possession and that effects their shot. Basketball is the one sport that is not additive. You don't just add a 30 to a team that is a 65 and have a 95 team. You lose things too. This is a slightly below average team with Zion that is very below average without him. This isn't a 4-2 or 5-1 team that is 1-5 without him. All those guys the poster above listed effect the game on BOTH sides of the ball and/or they create a substantial amount of offense for others. Zion might do that some day, he doesnt do it now. He is more like a big Zach LaVine from last year. Scores a bunch - elite at that. But your team can lose with him or lose without him. Zion wont be the difference maker you guys seem to think he will be until he massively effects both sides of the ball and/or he becomes an elite creator of offense for other people

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Everyone doesn't think the same as you man. Some of us have different opinions and a different set of expectations for this team - that's ok. No one is saying this team will win the chip with Zion, or achieve some lofty goal (at least by pels fans standards), that is entirely a strawman you've constructed in your own mind. With all due respect, no need to egg people on by pushing your agenda. It would just be boring if everyone thought the same as you and a variety of discussion was simply not had - don't you think?

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Originally Posted by HerbJonesFan

Okay, but when Zion comes back, this will still be a middle of the pack team or maybe slightly worse. I actually think him being gone helps you guys because now you get to use him being gone as a reason the losses are piling up, and live in this fantasy world where they would have won all these games if he was here. I am curious what the rhetoric will be when he returns and this team is still nothing special. My guess is it will be the same old "poor coaching" or "refs are against us" fan stuff. But we shall see

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lol im 100% convinced that you are MM....the name has changed but the writing stays the same....you came on here with that herb jones talk then reverted back to classic MM style with your reply to luckyman and pelicanidae.......bruh,, you could have said all of that under your own name lol.....

hell, i guess you are on other pelicans site as a herb jones fan but your old self come out at some point like it did here toward luckyman and dae......you always come at luckyman like you did in your post under his lol...you just couldnt help yourself huh?....lol.......man you something else....

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Originally Posted by Funcrusher

Everyone doesn't think the same as you man. Some of us have different opinions and a different set of expectations for this team - that's ok. No one is saying this team will win the chip with Zion, or achieve some lofty goal (at least by pels fans standards), that is entirely a strawman you've constructed in your own mind. With all due respect, no need to egg people on by pushing your agenda. It would just be boring if everyone thought the same as you and a variety of discussion was simply not had - don't you think?

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come on man..read the posts....thats your boy MM lol....

Well, this Herb Jones Alabama man fan who has been a Pelicans fan since ::checks notes:: October this year, seems to have this whole NBA thing figured out. Guess there?s no reason to watch anymore.

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Originally Posted by HerbJonesFan

Okay, but when Zion comes back, this will still be a middle of the pack team or maybe slightly worse. I actually think him being gone helps you guys because now you get to use him being gone as a reason the losses are piling up, and live in this fantasy world where they would have won all these games if he was here. I am curious what the rhetoric will be when he returns and this team is still nothing special. My guess is it will be the same old "poor coaching" or "refs are against us" fan stuff. But we shall see

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Why do you continue to follow this team? Is it just to tell their fans "I told you so?"

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

Why do you continue to follow this team? Is it just to tell their fans "I told you so?"

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you do know thats MM,,right?..