MAJOR TRADE: Pelicans / Grizzlies

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Except not really in the same league as a defensive prospect. He's fine on defense, don't get me wrong, and benefits from being pretty huge physically, but he's not the lateral mover Bridges is, and he doesn't read the floor as well on D either.

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Agreed, he reminds me of Tobias Harris

While I think Adams was a good guy, he didn't fit this team, Bled on the other hand... KICK ROCKS LOL

Decent trade. Griff owning up to his mistakes.

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Originally Posted by Impose

Jonas is really underrated. He is the 3 point shooting 5 that everyone believes Zion needs, so we'll see how it goes. Will be interesting to see what the market is for him, bigs are getting cheaper and cheaper, but Jonas is one of the better shooting bigs in the league.

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I get the temptation to think like this but I just want to remind people that although Jonas shot well in terms of percentages over the last two years, and I think could be a reasonable floor spacer on most teams, he also took less than one three point attempt per game and nobody is going to hesitate helping off a guy who shoots 37% on 0.9 attempts a night in order to defend Zion in the paint.

Like, if your man is Jonas Valanciunas and Zion is driving past you, you're helping on Zion. Jonas can have the open 3 opportunity: he's likely not going to take it, and even if he is, the point-per-shot return on a Jonas 3 (1.1ppp) is lower than a Zion layup (1.41ppp), so you'll take it. In order for a centre to provide enough spacing to actually make Zion's life easier, he'd have to shoot like KAT :hihi:

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I get the temptation to think like this but I just want to remind people that although Jonas shot well in terms of percentages over the last two years, and I think could be a reasonable floor spacer on most teams, he also took less than one three point attempt per game and nobody is going to hesitate helping off a guy who shoots 37% on 0.9 attempts a night in order to defend Zion in the paint.

Like, if your man is Jonas Valanciunas and Zion is driving past you, you're helping on Zion. Jonas can have the open 3 opportunity: he's likely not going to take it, and even if he is, the point-per-shot return on a Jonas 3 (1.1ppp) is lower than a Zion layup (1.41ppp), so you'll take it. In order for a centre to provide enough spacing to actually make Zion's life easier, he'd have to shoot like KAT :hihi:

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Going from Adams to JV is still a MAJOR upgrade, not just in spacing the floor for Zion, but in basically every metric. He was the glue that held Memphis together and has always been on winning teams. I think Griff figured out he needs culture setters, but ones that can actually play and fit our roster. He failed his first attempt at this last year, but he's off to a great start this go round.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I get the temptation to think like this but I just want to remind people that although Jonas shot well in terms of percentages over the last two years, and I think could be a reasonable floor spacer on most teams, he also took less than one three point attempt per game and nobody is going to hesitate helping off a guy who shoots 37% on 0.9 attempts a night in order to defend Zion in the paint.

Like, if your man is Jonas Valanciunas and Zion is driving past you, you're helping on Zion. Jonas can have the open 3 opportunity: he's likely not going to take it, and even if he is, the point-per-shot return on a Jonas 3 (1.1ppp) is lower than a Zion layup (1.41ppp), so you'll take it. In order for a centre to provide enough spacing to actually make Zion's life easier, he'd have to shoot like KAT :hihi:

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This is true but he has shown 3pt improvement and also it’s usually a skill that bigs add that get older. I can see him hitting 39ish percent on 2 three point attempts per game

Jonas is also actually a better rebounder than Adam’s, FT shooter, mid range shooter, post game, and is metrically even a better defender

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

Jonas is also actually a better rebounder than Adam’s, FT shooter, mid range shooter, post game, and is metrically even a better defender

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He was very good for the Grizzlies last year. Like very, very good. At times Ja (who we all know is the better player) was 1a and he was 1b. Jonas is seismically better than Adams and it's not just for his ability to hit a three every now and then. Not to mention he's cheaper and an expiring.

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Originally Posted by RUFshreve

Going from Adams to JV is still a MAJOR upgrade, not just in spacing the floor for Zion, but in basically every metric. He was the glue that held Memphis together and has always been on winning teams. I think Griff figured out he needs culture setters, but ones that can actually play and fit our roster. He failed his first attempt at this last year, but he's off to a great start this go round.

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Sure, I'm not negative about the Jonas add at all. In fact, I think on the first page of this thread I said he was a clear upgrade over Adams, including with regards to spacing! Cause he can hit a long range mid shot a little as well.

My point is just that we need to be careful thinking about him as a ''3 point shooting 5'' cause he just isn't, really. At least not thus far: as Hornet Guru said, maybe he ups his volume this year and can stay efficient - obviously that would be cool - but it's not like we can just pencil it in as a given. So far he's not shown anything like the shooting that would be needed to provide any real space. Which is fine, we've seen that Zion can execute absurd scoring on stupid efficiency inside a very crowded lane, he doesn't need oceans of space (even if it would be nice!).

Agree. To date no one would think of JV as a real 3 point threat. But so what. He is a very accomplished post scorer and can take a dump off in the lane and consistently knock down the 8-10 footer. That will really help Zion just like really helped Morant.

What’s this move help us do? We could have a bit of cap space. We sign and trade Lonzo and we can fit a max deal in. But for who? Chris Paul is coming back?

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

What?s this move help us do? We could have a bit of cap space. We sign and trade Lonzo and we can fit a max deal in. But for who? Chris Paul is coming back?

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Media link us to getting Lowry. There other options like Conley, and maybe trading for a point... Like Brogdon, Sexton. If Paul goes on the market... That'd be interesting. I can see him running back, but if he opts out... Phoenix will probably move on instead of paying him for a multi year deal.

Brogdon makes sense, because we still need to fill out depth.

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

What’s this move help us do? We could have a bit of cap space. We sign and trade Lonzo and we can fit a max deal in. But for who? Chris Paul is coming back?

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Mr Lowry, of Toronto fame, exists.

It also gives us cap space to play with offers to people like Duncan Robinson.

And of course, if you're a team like Atlanta who has been rumoured several times to want to ship someone out because you have too many young guys coming up on paydays or extensions - John Collins, Kevin Huerter, DeAndre Hunter - why not give yourself cap to make an offer or, in the case of using the TPE, even do a S&T.

Also, with a sizeable TPE, I can imagine us being a fairly attractive trade partner for teams who want to clear up salary without taking anything back. For example, the Jazz have $134m on the books next season and $123m on the books the season after that. They're going to be over the luxury tax next year and if they resign Ingles, they'll be in the luxury tax the year after as well. Meanwhile, Bojan Bogdanovic slots pretty neatly into the TPE we have. Can the Jazz be persuaded to free up Bojan in exchange for avoiding the repeater tax? No idea, but we're set up to take advantage of situations like that if/when they come up.

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Originally Posted by donato

We could've traded for Dame with only a second round pick and posters on this board would find something to complain about.

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You are right about that. This team hasn't even practiced together, much less played a game together and yet it is the worst trade ever.

I really like this trade ! Go on Griff , don’t stop now…:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by pelafanatic

All the national writers I trust love it. I trust KOC, Jackson Frank, HP more than Pelicansfan10

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That is good to hear.

This trade had me at "Bledsoe to Memphis" the rest is just window dressing.

Don't let up on David Griffin! He still have more moves to make in order for us to compete in the nba.

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Originally Posted by iNolaNightmare

He was very good for the Grizzlies last year. Like very, very good. At times Ja (who we all know is the better player) was 1a and he was 1b. Jonas is seismically better than Adams and it's not just for his ability to hit a three every now and then. Not to mention he's cheaper and an expiring.

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This is why we need a good guard too tho. Good guard play helps players like JV be better.

I have to admit I had a sick feeling when I first heard about the trade but really it just points to my football familiarity. I hear about us giving up a 1st rounder and my jaw drops, forgetting that late NBA first round is more like a football mid round pick. It's even protected should something happen to the Lakers. Also moving from 10 to 17 is huge in the NFL but , at least in this draft, it does not seem as big in the NBA. I'm nervous as hell right now, but it seems like this is the opposite of last offseason.

So I’ve been reading this forum for a couple of years and I’ve really enjoyed y’all’s (yes I’m southern) posts, opinions and sometimes hilarious banter. I’ve finally decided to join and throw in my 2 cents.

I really like this trade and see it like this. The Lakers protected pick is basically the price to rid Bled’s contract and clear up 18 mil. I’m good with the price. I don’t really care about the 2nd round swaps. They are inconsequential. The meat of the trade is Adams and moving down 7 spots for JV. I take this all day and every day for 2 reasons. First, JV is such an upgrade. I’m actually an Adams fan for multiple reasons. One being my favorite media interview. I wish I could approach life like Steven and have a beautiful waterfront NZ farm (wouldn’t you). But when I watched games against the Grizz I would say “Man would JV be such a good fit with our team and Zion. And he’s cheaper than Adams. No brainer IMO.

I think Griff has learned from his mistakes where he loved a player and went after him aggressively. I believe he heard the roar of Camp Zion and his ears perked up like a jackrabbit with a predator bearing down on him. He’s got to know, if he loses Zion, this franchise looses him. At least I hope so.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

I dont think it is a lock Jonas is here this year. I dont think its a lock we keep 17 either. Fun trade to talk about, but I wouldnt draw any definite conclusions yet. First domino to fall, and as always, I think you judge the offseason as a whole

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I didn't think about that. Someone could trade for his expiring contract, to give a three point shooter to the Pelicans.

Just think.

2/5's of our starting lineup were basically inept last year. FORTY PERCENT.

Yes, this was Griffs doing. But at least he is not being stubborn and moving on quickly from it.

I wasn't going to watch any game this year if Bledsoe was playing. Toxic attitude and trash play. And nothing against Adams personally, but he was maybe the worst possible fit for this team. 7 points per game with a 44% FT. Worst 2 starters in the league honestly.

Now we get a chance to really contend. Can't wait to see what's ahead.

If you plan on re-signing JV and he plays well for us, then it?s probably worth it. I?d like to see it in action before I jump for joy. But it could have been much worse.

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Originally Posted by TennMan23

So I’ve been reading this forum for a couple of years and I’ve really enjoyed y’all’s (yes I’m southern) posts, opinions and sometimes hilarious banter. I’ve finally decided to join and throw in my 2 cents.

I really like this trade and see it like this. The Lakers protected pick is basically the price to rid Bled’s contract and clear up 18 mil. I’m good with the price. I don’t really care about the 2nd round swaps. They are inconsequential. The meat of the trade is Adams and moving down 7 spots for JV. I take this all day and every day for 2 reasons. First, JV is such an upgrade. I’m actually an Adams fan for multiple reasons. One being my favorite media interview. I wish I could approach life like Steven and have a beautiful waterfront NZ farm (wouldn’t you). But when I watched games against the Grizz I would say “Man would JV be such a good fit with our team and Zion. And he’s cheaper than Adams. No brainer IMO.

I think Griff has learned from his mistakes where he loved a player and went after him aggressively. I believe he heard the roar of Camp Zion and his ears perked up like a jackrabbit with a predator bearing down on him. He’s got to know, if he loses Zion, this franchise looses him. At least I hope so.

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Welcome finally to the board friend. Please post more. Great post.

Memphis as a team under Taylor Jenkins has been a low volume three point shooting team. They like to attack the paint. Valanciunas passed on a lot of open threes. If given the green light, his volume should go up, possibly significantly. Regardless, even if you take out three point shooting altogether, he's a significant upgrade over Adams.

If there's anything we learned about Zion this year it's that he can play with anyone. The best way we can help Zion is by making his number two as good as possible. Right now, that's BI. Valanciunas will help BI more than anybody. Big body, sets great screens and is always a threat to score off screen actions from anywhere. He should help BI face less bodies and have more options coming off screens.

We still have a long way to go, but this was a step in the right direction.

Ehhhhhh... I think I'll be in the optimistic, but realistic boat on this one. I like the trade, but don't envision him being anything more than a Healthy Adams+. Like a healthy Adams would of been a solid starter. So, Im think probably good 5, but nothing mind blowing. He's praised for his consistency. Which is something we dearly need. He'll probably be 12/9.5 guy here due to looks and guards being tenacious rebound getters.

I think he'll cement himself as a true solution to our 5, but fans will digress when his game is more about consistency than flash. All in all, he doesn't solve Zion being swarmed, but you don't truly solve that with a 5 acquisition. You solve that with guards that can shoot consistently. He's not the most important piece of the puzzle, but his success is kind of dependent on the big piece that hasn’t happened yet.

Now lets trade for Dame and sign all the free agents we need to make a playoff run.

One concern I would have on Jonas is that he has a much higher usage rate than Adams. Jonas's usage rate usually sits around 20-22%. Adams's career average is 15 and it was 11.7 last year playing next to Zion and Ingram.

Zion is at 30 with Ingram at 28 since joining the Pelicans. Something is going to have to give. Maybe Zion and Ingram's usage drops slightly and they then spend more effort on defense.

If JV opens season with Pelicans, I guess JAX's role won't change unless JV plays some 4.

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Originally Posted by As I See It

If JV opens season with Pelicans, I guess JAX's role won't change unless JV plays some 4.

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JV playing some 4 makes pretty good sense to me....

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Originally Posted by Silverfoxx

Welcome finally to the board friend. Please post more. Great post.

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Thanks Silverfoxx, nice to be accepted by a Vet.

The funny thing is that some people are already saying that ?I can?t believe we gave so much for a 1 year rental on JV. Then when Griff gets a reasonable extension everybody will yell ?why did you have to get an extension.? It?s like you just can win in some platforms.

It's the NFL's fault. Growing up watching football as my main sport, it's hard to wrap my brain around the benefits of expiring contracts and trading away players just to free up cap space to sign free agents. I think a lot of people do that, too.

And welcome!

My issue with this trade isn?t who we landed, I am happy to have JV (even if he is older than our ?timeline? indicates). He is a solid talent, and without him Toronto doesn?t win their title (that?s a deep cut), so he is like the reverse Jrue/AD, maybe Karma will swing our way this time.

Work has been busy today, but with these reports off my computer I would like to get down to what I hate about this trade, or more, what is a common trend in all of Griffs trades, which is his view of the assets we have in our war chest. I?ll get into this tomorrow.

The Bucks just won a championship by not shooting a lot of threes. They scored mostly in the paint and had 4 great, if not good defensive players. Not everyone likes to throw up lucky 3s like Portland and Golden State.

Could Jonas Valanciunas's relationship with Kyle Lowry help tip the scales for us in that direction. Griffin said at the very beginning of his run that he thought this was Jrue's team and only over time would it become Zion's - to put it all on a rookie would not be fair. Griffin could trip into a situation mirroring his original story but with Lowry instead of Jrue as a superstar veteran and with the benefit of Zion, BI, Hayes, NAW with more experience.

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Originally Posted by smcgull

The Bucks just won a championship by not shooting a lot of threes. They scored mostly in the paint and had 4 great, if not good defensive players. Not everyone likes to throw up lucky 3s like Portland and Golden State.

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The Bucks are a great example of a team who, rather than following league trends, leans hard into just becoming the best version of themselves.

They leaned had, at their core, Giannis and Khris Middleton. Both are very large, lengthy, defensively excellent players. What did they do? They bulked the team out with more large, lengthy, defensively excellent players. Doubling down on their strengths.

What is the Pelicans identity right now? Outside of Zion's paint dominance and great team rebounding, I don't think there is one yet. I agree that once we find one we should lean into it, but that has to happen first.

It's also worth noting that while the Bucks didn't shoot well in the playoffs and their defense allowed them to stay in games, the post-season and the regular season are a little different. In the regular season, before the game slows down, shooting is still very very important: the Bucks, who ''won a championship by not shooting a lot of threes'' were 8th in the NBA in attempted 3s in the regular season and 5th in 3pt %age. They took 37 a game and shot 39% on them :hihi: These days there is a sort of minimum competence an elite team has to have from outside.

If you look at the top 3 teams in each conference, you find that all of them were in the top 10 in the NBA in 3pt %age in the regular season. The worst of them was the Sixers, who shot 37.4% from 3 as a team on 30.1 a game. By comparison, last year the Pelicans were 26th in the NBA (note: no team in the bottom 8 of 3pt% even made the playoffs) and only shot 34.8% from 3 on almost identical volume, 30.4 per game.

You gotta be at least a solid 3pt shooting team these days, at least in the regular season.

Clutch Points said this about the trade.

New Orleans Pelicans: A+
While the Pelicans gave up draft capital in this deal, they got the ideal center fit alongside star Zion Williamson. Valanciunas is a stretch big that can allow Zion to dominate in the paint while spacing the floor. Although Adams is a good player, he was a terrible fit alongside Zion.

The Pelicans also get off of Bledsoe’s contract, who was another horrendous fit with the Pelicans. When you’re building around a guy like Zion, you need shooters, and that is not Bledsoe’s game whatsoever. This trade also clears $20 million in cap space for the Pelicans, which they can use to add more shooters.


An underrated part of this deal was getting draft picks back from the Grizzlies. Even though it required them to trade down, the Pelicans can still add some rookies that can make an impact. They only had to trade down 7 spots in the first round, 11 spots in the second round, and add one of the picks from the Anthony Davis trade.

The Pelicans nailed this trade and are bound to have a better offense in 2021 because of it.

Short term I think the trade is solid. Jonas is a better fit (at least offensively) for Zion and Brandon. I question who's going to truly be available in free agency. But this trade mostly just feels like we are spinning our wheels. Is Griffin committed to starting Walker and Lewis like the rumors suggest or will he go out a overpay for a vet PG like other rumors suggest?

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

Short term I think the trade is solid. Jonas is a better fit (at least offensively) for Zion and Brandon. I question who's going to truly be available in free agency. But this trade mostly just feels like we are spinning our wheels. Is Griffin committed to starting Walker and Lewis like the rumors suggest or will he go out a overpay for a vet PG like other rumors suggest?

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I dont think its an either/or.

Lewis aint ready and wont be for a few years. You can sign Lowry to hold down the position for a few years and Kira takes it over at 22, 23 years old - a similar age to Davion Mitchell is right now, and younger than Chris Duarte. Or you bring back Lonzo for now and trade him in two years if/when Kira is ready. Either way, I think NAW is a starting guard next season. To round out this offseason, you need two things: 1) The other guard 2) A power wing that can close games against smaller/faster teams

This thread is just blowing me away. The national media is praising our FO for this trade, the Memphis fanbase hates this trade, hell even the other Pels message board loves this trade, but somehow this board is unhappy/unsure about it. Y'all need to remove last off-season's mistakes from your perception of this trade. This is a new off-season. Y'all need to learn how to take a win.

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Originally Posted by RUFshreve

This thread is just blowing me away. The national media is praising our FO for this trade, the Memphis fanbase hates this trade, hell even the other Pels message board loves this trade, but somehow this board is unhappy/unsure about it. Y'all need to remove last off-season's mistakes from your perception of this trade. This is a new off-season. Y'all need to learn how to take a win.

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Agreed. I just really hard to complain much about this trade. I get folks are used to being disappointed, but this ain't one of them times

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Originally Posted by RUFshreve

This thread is just blowing me away. The national media is praising our FO for this trade, the Memphis fanbase hates this trade, hell even the other Pels message board loves this trade, but somehow this board is unhappy/unsure about it. Y'all need to remove last off-season's mistakes from your perception of this trade. This is a new off-season. Y'all need to learn how to take a win.

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To be fair, I dont think anyone should have a firm take on it, since it is the first domino. Lets see what we do with 17. And more importantly, lets see what Griff does with the flexibility. Whoever he gets with that new found space is, in essence, part of this trade and the grade should be graded as such. We should have a firm take on this trade only when we know have a name or two to insert, instead of the cap space we have now

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

To be fair, I dont think anyone should have a firm take on it, since it is the first domino. Lets see what we do with 17. And more importantly, lets see what Griff does with the flexibility. Whoever he gets with that new found space is, in essence, part of this trade and the grade should be graded as such. We should have a firm take on this trade only when we know have a name or two to insert, instead of the cap space we have now

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Any chance we can get FVV from all of this?

i have to say: i also watched the Grizz last year,wishing we had JV rather than Adams. and feeling like he was the difference between the teams making the play in

We have asked for FVV and OG and Masai has them off the table. Lowry makes a lot of sense but only if we can stay above the cap IMO. The key to this whole offseason in my point of view is using Lonzo as part of whatever big move qe make - be it Lowry or Duncan Robinson, whoever - so we can remain above the cap and use the MLE and the TPE we just got

I’m not in love with Lowry enough to want him to be THE move. But he and Val are bound to have prior chemistry from Toronto. I doubt that’s even the third or fourth motivation behind thr trade, but if we are in love with Lowry, it won’t hurt.

Unless Val pulled a Delonte West or something.

In a vaccuum, I can safely say this is probably the best move Griff has done with his time here

I haven't forgotton he wasted 4 picks on Adams either

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Originally Posted by AusPel

In a vaccuum, I can safely say this is probably the best move Griff has done with his time here

I haven't forgotton he wasted 4 picks on Adams either

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Sad, because OKC was looking to offload Adam's 30 million expiring contract and we was the only team dumb enough to give up assets and not give back salary. Particularly Bledsoe.

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Originally Posted by Taker597

Sad, because OKC was looking to offload Adam's 30 million expiring contract and we was the only team dumb enough to give up assets and not give back salary. Particularly Bledsoe.

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Yeah, utter ********ing insanity to pay OKC 3 draft assets to take 30 mil Adams off their hands. Then double down with the extension

It's definitely on a par with 5/60 for Asik

This is a championship winning GM by the way, not some n00b like Dell was

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

We have asked for FVV and OG and Masai has them off the table. Lowry makes a lot of sense but only if we can stay above the cap IMO. The key to this whole offseason in my point of view is using Lonzo as part of whatever big move qe make - be it Lowry or Duncan Robinson, whoever - so we can remain above the cap and use the MLE and the TPE we just got

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Not a huge fan of investing a lot in Lowry (reportedly he is looking for fully guaranteed 3/$90 million). Looking for and getting are two different things, but Pels likely have to overpay to get him over contenders. Not sure I would call Robinson a big move either. While I would like to have a shooter like him on the team, he is pretty one-dimensional and I would expect will cost as much or more than the shooters from last year (i.e. more than 4/$72 million).