February 19th - New Orleans Pelicans VS Phoenix Suns - 12-16

Brutal

Can someone tell me who led out team in turnovers tonight? Thanks!!

We get annihilated by star guard after star guard after star guard. CP3 with 19 assists this game, Lillard had 16 last game. Luka, Dame, CP3, Lavine, Coby White, Donovan Mitchell, De'Aaron Fox: all of them have had monster games on us this year so far, some of them multiple times (Mitchell).

If you don't realise there's a fatal flaw in our defense at the point of attack, particularly when it comes to making opposing guards uncomfortable, then you're not watching the game.

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Originally Posted by DaFranchise80

This is tough to watch. Griff needs to put everyone not named Ingram, Zion, and Kira on the trade block.

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I don't know.. I'd like to see what these other guys do with a coach that can optimize their talents.

Imagine what Zion, Ingram, and Ball would look like under a coach like Pop? Or how dynamic NAW might be under coach Pop.

These guys aren't prepared to close out 4th quarters. That's on the coach.

56% from three for the Suns tonight — just a typical game vs. our defense.
I think Stan’s defensive philosophy may be the exact opposite of what is effective in today’s NBA.

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Originally Posted by Taker597

Ingram needs to be on the block too.

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Na, just needs to be coached. What he does can easily be corrected.

How does that happen...

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Originally Posted by Taker597

Lewis missed 3
Zion missed 2
Turnover
Lewis missed 3
Reddick made 2
Zion Turnover
Hayes Turnover
Ingram missed 2
Ingram Turnover
Hayes Turnover
Reddick made 3
Willy Turnover
Ingram miss 3
Lonzo miss 3
Zion miss 2 FT
Zion makes 2 FT
Ball miss
Ingram miss 3
Team forfeit

A complete collapse. Frankly, I'm tired of these late game collapse and zero leadership at Guard. I know the Sun overpaid the hell for CP3, but I wished we got him.

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Don't understand why we didn't go after him. To give Zion and BI more primacy offensively? Then why pick up Bled and draft NAW/Kira? Why keep Lonzo? None of it makes sense.

This was one of the worst coached games I have seen in a long time. He continues to let JJ get abused and blow leads while leaving the starters on the bench to go ice cold. Their is no written rule in the world that says you can’t play starters when reserves are losing the lead. But it’s like he has to leave the starters on the bench till they are down. I’ll never understand why this team continues to hire bad coaches.

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Originally Posted by SeapeaNOLA

How does that happen...

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Bad coaching, braindead decisions from the players, zero defensive co-ordination or acumen at the guard spots, and Chris Paul.

Welp, movin on up.

www.tankathon.com

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Originally Posted by SeapeaNOLA

How does that happen...

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You don't pressure and grind off ball... You let dudes be comfortable on the perimeter and give them their spots while we overhelp in fear of letting someone defend someone in the paint one on one.

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Originally Posted by Taker597

You don't pressure and grind off ball... You let dudes be comfortable on the perimeter and give them their spots while we overhelp in fear of letting someone defend someone in the paint one on one.

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You put our guards on Chris Paul :hihi: That's what happens.

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Originally Posted by Nichols

Na, just needs to be coached. What he does can easily be corrected.

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I wouldn't respond to this silliness anymore. What else you want him to do? He's not the one getting murdered by guards time after time.

And Zion was particularly bad defensively tonight. Just got lost and turned around multiple times.

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Originally Posted by DaFranchise80

This is tough to watch. Griff needs to put everyone not named Ingram, Zion, and Kira on the trade block.

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Ingram isn't untouchable for me.

His value is 2nd to Zion in my book. But...if some start wants out and that team calls and says "Someone of equal level to KAT for Ingram and picks" I'd stay on the phone and listen.

You guys are a little too hard on the players.. they can play better individually. But meltdowns in the fourth, and not being able to generate quality shots is on the coaching staff.

If it's not Ingram and Zion in picks, they are isoing. That's by design. That's not them deciding they're going to ignore a play call.

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Originally Posted by As I See It

Can someone tell me who led out team in turnovers tonight? Thanks!!

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https://media.tenor.com/images/8d812...8186/tenor.gif

Horrible coaching, bad rotations. There is no reason to ever put zion at the 5 and BI at the 4.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

You put our guards on Chris Paul :hihi: That's what happens.

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That too lol

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

Ingram isn't untouchable for me.

His value is 2nd to Zion in my book. But...if some start wants out and that team calls and says "Someone of equal level to KAT for Ingram and picks" I'd stay on the phone and listen.

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I'm in this boat, currently.

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Originally Posted by Nichols

You guys are a little too hard on the players.. they can play better individually. But meltdowns in the fourth, and not being able to generate quality shots is on the coaching staff.

If it's not Ingram and Zion in picks, they are isoing. That's by design. That's not them deciding they're going to ignore a play call.

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I'm sick of this excuse, frankly. Obviously the coaching should be better, but you yourself were pointing out frustrations with Ingram earlier in the 4th, holding the ball for literally entire possessions without passing it once so that he could take shots: why has that criticism now evaporated into being SVG's fault the moment the game's over?

The reality is that while the coaching is obviously poor, that doesn't change the fact that players can and still do need to play better. Ingram included.

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

Ingram isn't untouchable for me.

His value is 2nd to Zion in my book. But...if some start wants out and that team calls and says "Someone of equal level to KAT for Ingram and picks" I'd stay on the phone and listen.

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This sounds ridiculous to me.. Who on this board is saying he's untouchable????? Who on this board thinks you can get a KAT level player for Ingram????? You guys say the most absurd things, especially after a loss. Of course Ingram is second to Zion in value. Of course you listen to calls from teams for just about 90% of the players in this league. smh lol

The main problem I see is they are asking the bigs to hedge too hard and stay too long. Even after the guard has recovered, they are STILL there.

Bombs the entire defense and creates an instant unbalanced defense.

Then there are the bad rotations. Ball watching and getting killed with backdoors. Leaping on close outs.

This isn't even a physical talent issue to me anymore. Defensively they are deer in headlights.

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Originally Posted by As I See It

Can someone tell me who led out team in turnovers tonight? Thanks!!

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We only had 13 total, Zion had 5.

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Originally Posted by Nichols

This sounds ridiculous to me.. Who on this board is saying he's untouchable????? Who on this board thinks you can get a KAT level player for Ingram????? You guys say the most absurd things, especially after a loss. Of course Ingram is second to Zion in value. Of course you listen to calls from teams for just about 90% of the players in this league. smh lol

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I guess only NOLA where a disgruntled superstar publicly ask for trade and sabotage his value at the same time.

That was quite the meltdown....

I mean, it looks like we contest a reasonable amount of threes but length is length and we're short as ********.

We really just need longer guys. Running 4 guys under 6'4" off the bench with one big isn't good enough.

The most frustrating part is you can see we can hang with good teams but then it's like the second they turn on the intensity we falter. And my god do teams feel good shooting threes against us. It's gotta be a meme around the whole league by now. Just let it fly against the Pels, ball will go in.

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Originally Posted by Taker597

That too lol

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Yeah I mean, I get why people praise Lonzo defensively and he can be good, but he's not some superstar defender lockdown guy, and we all know that even if he was, there's only so much one guard can do.

Jrue wouldn't have allowed this. Hell, Jrue didn't allow this kind of thing: that's what an elite defender can do; even if he can't fix the entire defense, he can at least make opposing guards uncomfortable at the point of attack and pressure them a bit and not allow them free-reign over our entire defense.

We have nobody like that. Bledsoe is a sore disappointment and Jrue was robbed of All D last year, and Lonzo is just flat out not that calibre.

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Originally Posted by luckyman

I wouldn't respond to this silliness anymore. What else you want him to do? He's not the one getting murdered by guards time after time.

And Zion was particularly bad defensively tonight. Just got lost and turned around multiple times.

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Yeah, this game was a regression for him on D. Seemed a step slow on every rotation, closeout, you name it. Still not even the primary problem defensively (our guards)

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I'm sick of this excuse, frankly. Obviously the coaching should be better, but you yourself were pointing out frustrations with Ingram earlier in the 4th, holding the ball for literally entire possessions without passing it once so that he could take shots: why has that criticism now evaporated into being SVG's fault the moment the game's over?

The reality is that while the coaching is obviously poor, that doesn't change the fact that players can and still do need to play better. Ingram included.

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I want you to actually think boss.. Take the blinders off.. Use your brain.. be objective.. and think.. Try to divorce yourself from this thing you have against Ingram..

Yes, Ingram makes poor decisions in the 4th. They wouldn't be as prevalent if there was a system for him to work within. This should be easy for you to understand. There is no framework for him or anyone else to work in. So they wing it. Iso.. or run pick action.

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Originally Posted by Nichols

This sounds ridiculous to me.. Who on this board is saying he's untouchable?????

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You keep asking who is saying he's untouchable

Go back to the last thread and look at the people who were calling him untouchable. Saying it was ''ridiculous'' to ''even entertain the idea'' of trading him. Just because you either missed it or forgot doesn't mean it didn't happen.

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Originally Posted by Nichols

I want you to actually think boss.. Take the blinders off.. Use your brain.. be objective.. and think.. Try to divorce yourself from this thing you have against Ingram..

Yes, Ingram makes poor decisions in the 4th. They wouldn't be as prevalent if there was a system for him to work within. This should be easy for you to understand. There is no framework for him or anyone else to work in. So they wing it. Iso.. or run pick action.

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It's not just Ingram I'm annoyed at.

Take your blinders off and read the entire comment. I said multiple times in that post alone that the coaching is partially to blame. Take the Ingram defense off and answer the question: you yourself found Ingram's play absurd when it was happening and then the minute the game ends suddenly we can't put any blame on him cause of the system. I'm sorry, smart basketball players don't just do this every single game. You think Kawhi would make the same choices Ingram makes even with the same coach? Come on. Take the blinders off. Use your brain.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Yeah I mean, I get why people praise Lonzo defensively and he can be good, but he's not some superstar defender lockdown guy, and we all know that even if he was, there's only so much one guard can do.

Jrue wouldn't have allowed this. Hell, Jrue didn't allow this kind of thing: that's what an elite defender can do; even if he can't fix the entire defense, he can at least make opposing guards uncomfortable at the point of attack and pressure them a bit and not allow them free-reign over our entire defense.

We have nobody like that. Bledsoe is a sore disappointment and Jrue was robbed of All D last year, and Lonzo is just flat out not that calibre.

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Lonzo to me is all playmaking on defense. He starts out hot from pure athleticism but he collapses in the 3rd. Give up backdoor, spacing, makes bad read, giving up obvious lanes., and fouls in the clutch. On top of that, he doesn't know how to play chess on defense in late game moments. He completely gaffs in the 4th a lot.

12 point 4th quarter.

and we have a max player and a number 1 overall pick playing

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Originally Posted by luckyman

The main problem I see is they are asking the bigs to hedge too hard and stay too long. Even after the guard has recovered, they are STILL there.

Bombs the entire defense and creates an instant unbalanced defense.

Then there are the bad rotations. Ball watching and getting killed with backdoors. Leaping on close outs.

This isn't even a physical talent issue to me anymore. Defensively they are deer in headlights.

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I pointed this out a couple of games ago. The bigs hedge for too long, sucks in the help and creates 5 on 4 opportunities for the other team where we're just in constant scramble mode. And we overhelp too, but because we do such a terrible job of properly guarding the PNR we sort of have too.

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Originally Posted by Funcrusher

Im ready to straight up say we shouldn't retain Stan after this year. He was the wrong choice. Griff's not looking good either, he hasn't assembled a great roster point blank.

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"So you buy out the final three years of his contract", says Gail Benson.

He's only improved every defense he's been associated with, but you're probably right...our defense is set, huh?

Are you still ready to start Kira?

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Originally Posted by Taker597

Lonzo to me is all playmaking on defense. He starts out hot from pure athleticism but he collapses in the 3rd. Give up backdoor, spacing, makes bad read, giving up obvious lanes., and fouls in the clutch. On top of that, he doesn't how to play chess on defense in late game moments. He completely gaffs in the 4th a lot.

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Lonzo has a lot of games where he's dynamite in the first half and then just vanishes in the second, on both ends. This was, in a lot of ways, one of those games.

We have no real guard defenders. Kira might be one but he's not one yet, not really. Bledsoe just doesn't care, visibly. Lonzo isn't that guy on D, he's not a 1v1 lockdown menace. Redick .... the less we say about Redick on D the better.

Guards annihilate us because, at least in part, we have zero legitimate guard defenders.

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Originally Posted by RobertM320

We only had 13 total, Zion had 5.

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Thank You!!

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

You keep asking who is saying he's untouchable

Go back to the last thread and look at the people who were calling him untouchable. Saying it was ''ridiculous'' to ''even entertain the idea'' of trading him. Just because you either missed it or forgot doesn't mean it didn't happen.

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I was one of them. And I'll say it again....it is a very stupid, ridiculous, and reactionary idea. There you go.

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Originally Posted by luckyman

I was one of them. And I'll say it again....it is a very stupid, ridiculous, and reactionary idea. There you go.

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There you go Nichols, there's one. Now you can stop asking who is saying it.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

You keep asking who is saying he's untouchable

Go back to the last thread and look at the people who were calling him untouchable. Saying it was ''ridiculous'' to ''even entertain the idea'' of trading him. Just because you either missed it or forgot doesn't mean it didn't happen.

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It is ridiculous because no one is going to give you greater value for Ingram. And equal value doesn't move the needle. So yea it's kinda stupid really to even be talking about it. For those reasons he's virtually untouchable. You aren't going to improve the roster by trading him.

It's stupid.. period.

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Originally Posted by Nichols

It is ridiculous because no one is going to give you greater value for Ingram. And equal value doesn't move the needle. So yea it's kinda stupid really to even be talking about it. For those reasons he's virtually untouchable. You aren't going to improve the roster by trading him.

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You: ''Who's saying he's untouchable, nobody's saying that.''

Also you: ''He's virtually untouchable''

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Okay.

Yeah bro always the coaching. Never the players. It's Monty's, Gentry's and now SVGs fault

— Shamit Dua (@FearTheBrown) February 20, 2021

That's not to say zero blame falls on the coaching at all. Of course some does.

But here in Pelicans land, we've had people blaming the coach for damn near everything for about a decade now, and I know that Lakers fans found plenty of blame for Luke Walton as well.

At some point when the same players have struggled to make any kind of late game decision making of quality under two, three different coaches, you have to accept that maybe at least some of it is on the players as well.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

It's not just Ingram I'm annoyed at.

Take your blinders off and read the entire comment. I said multiple times in that post alone that the coaching is partially to blame. Take the Ingram defense off and answer the question: you yourself found Ingram's play absurd when it was happening and then the minute the game ends suddenly we can't put any blame on him cause of the system. I'm sorry, smart basketball players don't just do this every single game. You think Kawhi would make the same choices Ingram makes even with the same coach? Come on. Take the blinders off. Use your brain.

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You're not thinking..

Read what I said again... I acknowledged then, and now that Ingram makes poor choices in really critical situations. This would be mitigated by an actual system in place, or sets for the squad to run in crunch time. Clearly they don't. Which is why they wing it, iso, or run picks.

This shouldn't be hard to understand. Young players need a structure, or framework to work within. Especially in the 4th. They don't have that. That's on the coaches.

Also @Pelicanidae.. Stop mischaracterizing peoples comments intentionally. You're smart enough to understand what's being said to you. No one is saying it's never the players fault, when clearly people are pointing out where players are making errors.

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Originally Posted by Nichols

This sounds ridiculous to me.. Who on this board is saying he's untouchable????? Who on this board thinks you can get a KAT level player for Ingram????? You guys say the most absurd things, especially after a loss. Of course Ingram is second to Zion in value. Of course you listen to calls from teams for just about 90% of the players in this league. smh lol

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I'm the one saying he's not untouchable. I don't care who said or wasn't saying what before.

My thesis was and will continue to be: I like Ingram a lot. But he's not in the untouchable column. This isn't an insult.

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Originally Posted by Nichols

You're not thinking..

Read what I said again... I acknowledged then, and now that Ingram makes poor choices in really critical situations. This would be mitigated by an actual system in place, or sets for the squad to run in crunch time. Clearly they don't. Which is why they wing it, iso, or run picks.

This shouldn't be hard to understand. Young players need a structure, or framework to work within. Especially in the 4th. They don't have that. That's on the coaches.

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Sure. But when you're making $28m and you're 5 years into your career you get slightly less leeway than you did when you were making 30% of that and were 21.

I will reiterate: the coaching is bad.

But Ingram's a big boy now, and he needs to be better regardless of the coaching.

There are plenty of young players around the league who have had bad coaches and when they've lost close games we've been able to say ''get that man some help!'' cause it's not their fault, they did everything right and played heroically and just ate dirt anyway.

This is not one of those times. The team overall needs to be better, and so does the coaching, but regardless of that, Ingram deserves some real criticism.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

You: ''Who's saying he's untouchable, nobody's saying that.''

Also you: ''He's virtually untouchable''

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Okay.

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You're starting to sound like you have a deficiency in comprehension. Virtually untouchable because of the value it would yield isn't the same thing as saying untouchable. You need to get a grip with your commentary on Ingram.

I think more problems are solved by giving BI and Zion a couple extra minutes per game, Zion can definitely manage an extra minute or so in the 2nd and 4th.

Bledsoe needs some blame I really think he's coasting right now and not being assertive enough. He is supposed to be our 3rd scorer and he's just not creating for himself like he should.

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Originally Posted by Nichols

You're not thinking..

Read what I said again... I acknowledged then, and now that Ingram makes poor choices in really critical situations. This would be mitigated by an actual system in place, or sets for the squad to run in crunch time. Clearly they don't. Which is why they wing it, iso, or run picks.

This shouldn't be hard to understand. Young players need a structure, or framework to work within. Especially in the 4th. They don't have that. That's on the coaches.

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Just stop bothering. Look, here are Celtics fans after a bad loss to the Hawks the other night. Sound familiar?

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Tatum has too many turnovers and plays hero ball way too much. Until that stops, the Celtics are going nowhere.

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I fully agree. It's been a problem for 3 seasons now.

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Somebody Needs to show tatum the pass button.

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And then there are those like us that try and bring some rational thought back to life...even one that sounds like my twin...

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Wow, here comes the hot takes again.

If only we did not have Tatum, we might have lost by 25 tonight instead.

If anything, tonight once again confirmed Tatum is alpha 1 on this team and we need to surround him and Brown with the right parts to win multiple titles.

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Now it's not as bad as this place, but it is the life of a fan board where outlandish stupidity reigns after bad losses. Especially for young players still growing their games.

Of ALL the issues this team has, especially at guard and on defense...Ingram isn't one of them. But carry on.