January 27th - New Orleans Pelicans VS Washington Wizards - 5-10

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I'd basically say that our 2021 pick is off limits, but they can have something like
2022 + Bucks 2024 + Bucks 2026 + Lakers pick of their choice.

Add in Lonzo and Redick, potentially Melli if we need it to match contracts. Obviously Melli sucks but he's not going there for player value he's going there for salary filler and expiring value.

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No chance they trade Beal to us without this years first. If we land him we’re a playoff team easily. They aren’t giving up the leading scorer in the NBA for some late firsts

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

Lol you think they?re giving up Beal for late firsts? No, they?d want this years pick which will be top 5 and a bunch of protected firsts.

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How they gonna know it's late 1st when it's 3-5 years from now....

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Originally Posted by Taker597

How they gonna know it's late 1st when it's 5 years from now....

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Giannis just signed the mega max, the Bucks will still be great in 5 years

They aren’t trading the leading scorer in the nba in his prime for some picks that “might” not end up as late firsts lol

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

Ingram is about 3-4 years from his prime and Zion is about 6-7. Yeah sure we would be a good team but Beal would be exiting his prime right around when Ingram starts his and before Zion even sniffs his. You?d give up this years first which has a good shot of possibly getting the #1 pick and getting Cade and getting to watch those 3 for the next 10 years?

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I guess only the Spurs can win chips before stars hit their prime.

Kind of wild, because It's really only the Spurs to do that.

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Originally Posted by Taker597

I guess only the Spurs can win chips before stars hit their prime.

Kind of wild, because It's really only the Spurs to do that.

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When you have a coach like Pop and absolute studs like Duncan, Tony Parker and Manu you can, us, no.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

This is absurd.

Beal is 27 right now. He probably has at least 5 good strong years left in him: that takes you basically through to the end of Zion's second contract.

He absolutely fits the timeline. We know we aren't a championship contender this year, or next year, but we should absolutely be a consistent playoff team within the next few seasons, and Beal completely fits that. Acting like we're only allowed to look at players 25 or under is ridiculous.

And yeah, you keep your picks, but you can't actually use all of them. No use having 13 first round picks in the next six years, it's not like you're going to turnover your entire roster annually to account for them all. Make sure you have at least one FRP for every draft but feel free to move swaps and duplicates to acquire sure fire talent.

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This!!!

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

Giannis just signed the mega max, the Bucks will still be great in 5 years

They aren’t trading the leading scorer in the nba in his prime for some picks that “might” not end up as late firsts lol

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Super Max is gonna send Bucks into a rebuild sooner than later.

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Originally Posted by Taker597

I guess only the Spurs can win chips before stars hit their prime.

Kind of wild, because It's really only the Spurs to do that.

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No, shut up.

The rule is you have to stink until your stars are 26 and old enough to be annoyed about it, so that they can demand trades. If you're good by the time they're 25 then they might stick around and that's bad for the media who want them in LA and NYC.

God, how could you miss this?

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

No, shut up.

The rule is you have to stink until your stars are 26 and old enough to be annoyed about it, so that they can demand trades. If you're good by the time they're 25 then they might stick around and that's bad for the media who want them in LA and NYC.

God, how could you miss this?

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Lol ok let me get this straight, if you had Beal you would trade him for some future Bucks and Lakers picks?

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

No, shut up.

The rule is you have to stink until your stars are 26 and old enough to be annoyed about it, so that they can demand trades. If you're good by the time they're 25 then they might stick around and that's bad for the media who want them in LA and NYC.

God, how could you miss this?

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When you live in that cycle for 20 years as a fan. It just becomes a way of life.

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Originally Posted by Taker597

Super Max is gonna send Bucks into a rebuild sooner than later.

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I guess so, wonder why David Griffin hasn’t hopped all in on this trade yet.

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

Ingram is about 3-4 years from his prime and Zion is about 6-7. Yeah sure we would be a good team but Beal would be exiting his prime right around when Ingram starts his and before Zion even sniffs his. You?d give up this years first which has a good shot of possibly getting the #1 pick and getting Cade and getting to watch those 3 for the next 10 years?

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oof, hard disagree. We need vets, we need to establish a culture of winning for the young guys, Beal's still young, and we most likely would not be mortgaging our future to get him. Please don't overthink this.

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

Lol ok let me get this straight, if you had Beal you would trade him for some future Bucks and Lakers picks?

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It's call negotiating and a lot of luck to feed them the right bad picks that are out of the lottery. What seems like a good pick now will be different in 5 years.

While we’re at it let’s throw in some 2028 2030 and 2032 first rounders for Luka

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

I guess so, wonder why David Griffin hasn’t hopped all in on this trade yet.

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Exhibit A: Washington Wizard's Front Office

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Originally Posted by Funcrusher

oof, hard disagree. We need vets, we need to establish a culture of winning for the young guys, Beal's still young, and we most likely would not be mortgaging our future to get him. Please don't overthink this.

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Not overthinking it, you make that trade and we’ll be a playoff team for a long time sure, but never win a championship IMO. I swing for the fences, try and get a stud in the draft and have an insane young big 3 core AND take the cash Beal would eat up and spend it on a star and have a big 4

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Originally Posted by Taker597

Exhibit A: Washington Wizard's Front Office

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But it’s such a good deal that even they could see it.

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Originally Posted by Taker597

Super Max is gonna send Bucks into a rebuild sooner than later.

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They have Giannis until 2026 and Middleton until 2024, and will resign Jrue next year, they’re gonna be good for awhile

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

But it’s such a good deal that even they could see it.

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Compare to getting nothing and wasting a prime talent with nothing in return. That's for the Wizard Front office to see.

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

Not overthinking it, you make that trade and we’ll be a playoff team for a long time sure, but never win a championship IMO. I swing for the fences, try and get a stud in the draft and have an insane young big 3 core AND take the cash Beal would eat up and spend it on a star and have a big 4

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You make it sound so simple, I wonder why no other team has simply just done that.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

You make it sound so simple, I wonder why no other team has simply just done that.

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Not simple, but the correct way to build. You still haven’t answered my question, if you had Beal you would trade him for the picks you suggested?

We already have 2 of those 3 pieces in Ingram and Zion

Do I agree we need a good vet? Absolutely, but Beal isn’t a good vet, he’s a superstar and if you don’t think Beal, Ingram and Zion is a good enough trio to win a championship then why do it

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

Not simple, but the correct way to build. You still haven’t answered my question, if you had Beal you would trade him for the picks you suggested?

We already have 2 of those 3 pieces in Ingram and Zion

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''We already have 2 of those 3 pieces in Ingram and Zion''

You described a big 4.

Anyway, you're missing out a ton of context. Would I trade Beal for those pieces if I had a good team where he was giving me value? No, I wouldn't. Would I trade him for 4 first round picks and a young player with name-value if I was the worst team in basketball, arguably for multiple years in a row, with relatively few assets to rebuild and a tortured cap sheet?

The answer to that is very different and could very plausibly be yes. Especially if I have any signs from him that he might be open to leaving.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

''We already have 2 of those 3 pieces in Ingram and Zion''

You described a big 4.

Anyway, you're missing out a ton of context. Would I trade Beal for those pieces if I had a good team where he was giving me value? No, I wouldn't. Would I trade him for 4 first round picks and a young player with name-value if I was the worst team in basketball, arguably for multiple years in a row, with relatively few assets to rebuild and a tortured cap sheet?

The answer to that is very different and could very plausibly be yes. Especially if I have any signs from him that he might be open to leaving.

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Yes, the 3rd piece would be if we lucked out in the draft, and the fourth was just signing someone with the extra cap so highly attainable.

And in the NBA 4 quarters doesn’t equal a dollar. If the warriors offered their 1st this year and the their 2023 first it’s a much better deal for the wizards. What I’m saying is without including our first round pick this year other teams could offer better deals, no way they make the trade. If we do then sure but I probably wouldn’t want to

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

Yes, the 3rd piece would be if we lucked out in the draft, and the fourth was just signing someone with the extra cap so highly attainable.

And in the NBA 4 quarters doesn’t equal a dollar. If the warriors offered their 1st this year and the their 2023 first it’s a much better deal for the wizards. What I’m saying is without including our first round pick this year other teams could offer better deals, no way they make the trade. If we do then sure but I probably wouldn’t want to

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The question is whether or not anyone will or can match that.

Remember, https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/sto...pick-right-now
Most teams can't trade their first rounder this year, so us putting ours off limits wouldn't put us at any disadvantage.

Then you have to think about most of the teams who do have high value firsts: most of them also suck and have very little inclination to trade their firsts because they don't put the same value on Beal that a team which is bordering good does. We know Beal doesn't make a zero a hero, because we've watched him fail to do that in Washington for years, so there's little incentive for a team that is complete garbage and several pieces away to move much to get him.

By contrast, while we're several pieces away defensively, it's easy to see how a shooter and off-ball scorer like Beal could be the perfect key for the lock the Pelicans have felt at times offensively over the last several years, let alone now. The fit is just too obvious, and because we would still have assets even after off-loading to get Beal we would be one of the few teams both able and willing to give up large quantities of material to get him.

Zion and BI turn in their best 1/2 game of the year. One of the best in the entire league. And all the talk is about trading for Beal.

Washington is definitely trying to raise his price playing him like that. Mission accomplished.

:hihi:

We would offer this years pick. It would be protected like top 4 with following year unprotected. I’m surprised guru that your not into trading for Beal in as many trades as you like to do. I think it will take like 5 first rounders so I’m hoping to get those by trading Lonzo, Redick, and Bledsoe. Yes they would all be late picks but look at the Nets and Harden. When a player wants out they usually get moved and a team can sell the fan base 5 picks. They can’t sell fans on if they lose a player for nothing. We got a little lucky with Davis and the lakers (being they got in top 4 of lottery that year). Most trade would look like Jrue to the Nets. If we can get Beal you go for it. If not then we can still go for the Cunningham sweepstakes.

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Originally Posted by tdcreator

We would offer this years pick. It would be protected like top 4 with following year unprotected. I’m surprised guru that your not into trading for Beal in as many trades as you like to do. I think it will take like 5 first rounders so I’m hoping to get those by trading Lonzo, Redick, and Bledsoe. Yes they would all be late picks but look at the Nets and Harden. When a player wants out they usually get moved and a team can sell the fan base 5 picks. They can’t sell fans on if they lose a player for nothing. We got a little lucky with Davis and the lakers (being they got in top 4 of lottery that year). Most trade would look like Jrue to the Nets. If we can get Beal you go for it. If not then we can still go for the Cunningham sweepstakes.

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I'd do the 2021 pick if it was top 6 protected, that might be a bit rich for them though. If I'm giving them access to the 2021 pick, which is a great draft even after the top 6, then they're not getting 5 picks.

I value Beal and I think we should make a push for him, but I don't value him as much as I value, for example, Harden or AD, and you're describing a haul on that level.

Omg.

Reporter: “Are you frustrated?”

Bradley Beal: “Is the sky blue?"

— Fred Katz (@FredKatz) January 28, 2021

Come on man. Trade for this guy. Get him outta there.

If the Pels were lucky enough to convince the Wizards to trade them Beal they would be contenders (maybe not win it all, but come close for the next 5 years or so)
Ingram, Zion, Adams, Beal and a PG can compete with any team. Who is that PG? NAW ? Kira ? Bledsoe ? Ball ? (ok not him ) someone not on the roster? Not sure.
As a small market team, a core of Ingram, Zion, and Beal is just about the best scenario anyone could hope for. If possible you make that happen no matter the cost.
The Pels timeline started ticking when Zion was picked, get a Beal now and maximize the opportunity.

That said, I am sure Beal will be traded to the Lakers for Kuzma and two fake seconds, ESPN demands to see Durant, Kyrie, and Harden vs LeBron, AD, and Beal !!!!!
That is what the people want (not us), Small markets be damned!!!

In my view, BI + Zion + Beal is all the offensive firepower a team needs, in terms of big scoring. All three of them are even good-to-very-good passers.

What you then need is defense and a primary ballhandler. You hope Kira can fill that primary ballhandler slot in time, and also provide shooting.

So really what we then need is defense at every position. Adams at the 5 is fine, but wings wings wings.

So that brings us to the eternal NBA problem: good defensive wings. *sigh*

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

In my view, BI + Zion + Beal is all the offensive firepower a team needs, in terms of big scoring. All three of them are even good-to-very-good passers.

What you then need is defense and a primary ballhandler. You hope Kira can fill that primary ballhandler slot in time, and also provide shooting.

So really what we then need is defense at every position. Adams at the 5 is fine, but wings wings wings.

So that brings us to the eternal NBA problem: good defensive wings. *sigh*

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Funny enough that’s where Lonzo would actually fit this team, not the ball handling part, if I have Beal Ingram and Zion I want the offense being run through one of those 3 every single possession. Lonzo would fit perfectly as a 3 and D with that team, assuming his shooting goes back to how it was last year.

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

Funny enough that’s where Lonzo would actually fit this team, not the ball handling part, if I have Beal Ingram and Zion I want the offense being run through one of those 3 every single possession. Lonzo would fit perfectly as a 3 and D with that team, assuming his shooting goes back to how it was last year.

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Which is a big assumption to make given that last year was the outlier of his career.

It also relies on him accepting and playing that role. Which thus far in his career, he's refused to do the majority of the time.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Which is a big assumption to make given that last year was the outlier of his career.

It also relies on him accepting and playing that role. Which thus far in his career, he's refused to do the majority of the time.

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I agree, I’m not saying those things will happen I’m just saying if they did he would be the perfect fit, nor do I see him accepting that role

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

I agree, I’m not saying those things will happen I’m just saying if they did he would be the perfect fit, nor do I see him accepting that role

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For real. Theoretically, Ball is a good and useful player. The reality doesn't reflect that.

It's why I'm kind of dreading trading him on a really small level. Not enough to make me avoid it, but I just know that once we trade him, in three or four years he'll be playing well and helping a team out in a kind of mini-Iguodala role (not as good as Iggy but that kind of thing) and people will be like ''OH GOD, I CAN'T BELIEVE WE LET HIM GO FOR XYZ, UGH'' and I just cannot be bothered to deal with that lmao

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

For real. Theoretically, Ball is a good and useful player. The reality doesn't reflect that.

It's why I'm kind of dreading trading him on a really small level. Not enough to make me avoid it, but I just know that once we trade him, in three or four years he'll be playing well and helping a team out in a kind of mini-Iguodala role (not as good as Iggy but that kind of thing) and people will be like ''OH GOD, I CAN'T BELIEVE WE LET HIM GO FOR XYZ, UGH'' and I just cannot be bothered to deal with that lmao

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So are you willing to pay him 14MM to keep him? We have three options:

1. Trade him for what we can get now,
2. Pay him that 14MM tender
3. Let him walk at year's end.

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Originally Posted by As I See It

So are you willing to pay him 14MM to keep him? We have three options:

1. Trade him for what we can get now,
2. Pay him that 14MM tender
3. Let him walk at year's end.

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Oh absolutely not, make no confusion: I want him gone. I've been arguing to trade him for over a year lmao

There's just that little bit of me in the back of my head that cannot be bothered to deal with the inevitable Lonzo stans crying about him leaving when, in several years, he figures out how to be a positive.

Here is what Bradley Beal said last night about being Sad Brad meme’d after seemingly every game and how the last two-plus years of losing has affected him:

"I wanna win. This is why I stayed. I wanna win (here). I figure this is the place I can get it done.”

Full quote here: pic.twitter.com/pd7vvtTMCY

— Fred Katz (@FredKatz) January 28, 2021

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Omg.

Reporter: “Are you frustrated?”

Bradley Beal: “Is the sky blue?"

— Fred Katz (@FredKatz) January 28, 2021

Come on man. Trade for this guy. Get him outta there.

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Objectively, why would he want to come here?

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

Objectively, why would he want to come here?

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Objectively, he doesn't get a say in the matter.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Objectively, he doesn't get a say in the matter.

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He absolutely has a say in the matter. Have you not followed the NBA and how stars direct themselves to other teams (latest - AD, Harden)? If the Wizards completely ignored his demands as far as what team he wanted to go to, he also could simply walk out the door after next season leaving the team that traded for him with nothing.

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

He absolutely has a say in the matter. Have you not followed the NBA and how stars direct themselves to other teams (latest - AD, Harden)? If the Wizards completely ignored his demands as far as what team he wanted to go to, he also could simply walk out the door after next season leaving the team that traded for him with nothing.

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I said objectively. There is nothing he can do to prevent the trade happening from an objective standpoint.

When it comes to the personal politics, of course he could object to the trade or announce preferred destinations or sit out games or whatever, but none of that prevents the objective fact that he doesn't have a no trade clause so he goes wherever the Wizards send him.

Besides, have you seen the kind of way he's talked about and pledged himself to the Wizards? He's not going to do an AD and screw them by messing with them that way. If they decide to rebuild, he will work with them in more of a Jrue way imo.

Here's what so many people forget, and the Saints are a perfect example. When you only go to the playoffs once or twice every 5-6 years (Saints pre-2005), fans would be THRILLED to be a "playoff team for a long time", even if they never win a championship. At least its more enjoyable that way. Now, ONCE you've REACHED that level of always being a playoff team, like the Saints have, THEN the fans get more demanding, and rightfully so, but to say if we don't have a shot at a chip, then lets not even worry about the playoffs is crazy. In the end, this is ENTERTAINMENT. And its no fun if you never make the playoffs.

Another local example is Tulane football. They never went to three bowl games in a row in their HISTORY. And yet, some of the fans are pissed that Willie Fritz hasn't won a conference championship in his five years. For a school that had two winning seasons in 15 years before he arrived, isn't that asking a bit much?

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Originally Posted by RobertM320

Here's what so many people forget, and the Saints are a perfect example. When you only go to the playoffs once or twice every 5-6 years (Saints pre-2005), fans would be THRILLED to be a "playoff team for a long time", even if they never win a championship. At least its more enjoyable that way. Now, ONCE you've REACHED that level of always being a playoff team, like the Saints have, THEN the fans get more demanding, and rightfully so, but to say if we don't have a shot at a chip, then lets not even worry about the playoffs is crazy. In the end, this is ENTERTAINMENT. And its no fun if you never make the playoffs.

Another local example is Tulane football. They never went to three bowl games in a row in their HISTORY. And yet, some of the fans are pissed that Willie Fritz hasn't won a conference championship in his five years. For a school that had two winning seasons in 15 years before he arrived, isn't that asking a bit much?

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agree...

im a fan that love if we make the 8th seed every season...my thing is,,once you in the dance then you have a chance......i pay my money to make the playoffs and not for some stupid tanking...

one of my basketball joys were when we made the playoffs and getting to go to jazz fest then rushing to get to the playoff game.....those were the days lol....

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Originally Posted by 6warddude

agree...

im a fan that love if we make the 8th seed every season...my thing is,,once you in the dance then you have a chance......i pay my money to make the playoffs and not for some stupid tanking...

one of my basketball joys were when we made the playoffs and getting to go to jazz fest then rushing to get to the playoff game.....those were the days lol....

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That's really not true. Seeds 5th through 8th are all participation awards.

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Originally Posted by Taker597

That's really not true. Seeds 5th through 8th are all participation awards.

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Kindly remind me what The Heat's seeding was just last year.