Jrue Holliday is everyone's "missing piece"

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Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN

3 team trade:

Warriors: Holiday and Miller
Pels: 2nd pick, Randle, Gibson (team option) and 2021 Minny pick (top 3 protected)
Knicks: Wiggins and pick 13

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I need a N-Med scan because I think you gave me cancer with that trade.

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Originally Posted by Taker597

I need a N-Med scan because I think you gave me cancer with that trade.

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Wasn't my trade.
It popped up on my news feed.

Still think its better than having Wiggins and getting the 2nd pick.

Randle has only one year left, Gibson is a good leader and the 2021 pick is top 3 protected.

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Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN

Wasn't my trade.
It popped up on my news feed.

Still think its better than having Wiggins and getting the 2nd pick.

Randle has only one year left, Gibson is a good leader and the 2021 pick is top 3 protected.

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Randle has one year left and I do not want him on this team, so in my mind it's unlikely that he would be resigned. Gibson is a good leader but he's also 35 and clearly on the decline. Neither of those pieces would be on the team beyond the very short term future and neither of them are particularly valuable.

So you're trading Jrue+13 for, essentially, the #2 pick in a bad draft and a top 3 protected future pick.

Awful trade.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Randle has one year left and I do not want him on this team, so in my mind it's unlikely that he would be resigned. Gibson is a good leader but he's also 35 and clearly on the decline. Neither of those pieces would be on the team beyond the very short term future and neither of them are particularly valuable.

So you're trading Jrue+13 for, essentially, the #2 pick in a bad draft and a top 3 protected future pick.

Awful trade.

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I didn't say it was good.
I said it was better than Wiggins + 2nd for Jrue

I'd prefer to keep Jrue if any of these were the options.

Draymond Green does not seem to have much left and could see him being a malcontent having to go from Warriors to Pelicans. Not sure I would make that trade.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Jamal Murray is a defensive turnstile who has never even hit league average efficiency on the offensive end, and who has yet to demonstrate anything even resembling consistency.

If you consider that more valuable (today, as in, if the Nuggets want to try and win a championship next season, not 6 seasons from now) than probably the best two way guard in the NBA, then you're free to do that but personally I disagree.

Now, of course if the Nuggets don't think that Jrue is what will push them over the edge, then they don't make the trade. That's fine, and neither of us are psychic so we don't know their internal evaluations. But if they do think that he is that guy to pair with Jokic, then they pay up. That's how things work: we don't have to trade Jrue, so we set the price. It's up for other teams to meet it, or not, depending on how desperately they want him.

And they're two unprotected firsts from a team that, in this scenario, think they're going to be title contenders. I cannot tell you how little Denver, who didn't even bother taking a FRP in the 2019 draft and constantly pick in the mid 20s, cares about their FRPs. If you tell them ''you can be in the conversation for a ring in the next few seasons, but it will cost you the 24th pick in 2023'' they will take that deal 90% of the time.

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This isn?t all quite true

And if it was, why would the pelicans even bother making this deal (bad player and bad picks)?

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Originally Posted by NugzFan

This isn?t all quite true

And if it was, why would the pelicans even bother making this deal (bad player and bad picks)?

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Jamal Murray just had an incredible playoff run. Don't let that fool you into thinking that those things were not true when they were written.

I issue one correction. Jamal Murray has had one season where he was above league average in efficiency, his sophomore year.

League Average TS% each year of his career: 55.2%, 55.6%, 56%, 56.5%
Jamal Murray's TS% each year of his career: 51.8%, 57.8%, 53.9%, 55.8%

What else is incorrect? That he's a poor defender? That's true, and is backed by both the eye test and the statistics (he's got a -0.7 DPIPM, for example, has never posted a positive net rating, has had a negative DBPM every year of his career, etc).

As for my point about him not being consistent, that's just basic truth about him.

The reason the Pels might do this trade is that you're betting on a mediocre player (not bad) who has shown signs of having something special. You might lose that bet, but if you think the upside is there (which this playoff run demonstrated it might be) then it's fair to take a swing.

In any case, it's a bit weird to reply to this 6 weeks after the initial post, after Murray's playoffs explosion changes the evaluation a bit.

George Karl: "There is talk of Jrue Holiday landing with the Clippers, Pacers and other contenders. But I told @Adam_Mares recently the Nuggets want this guy next to Jamal Murray! Even if they need to be bold and throw a MPJ into a trade to make it happen!!" 6 hours ago ? via Twitter CoachKarl22



George Karl coached there for nine years not so ago. I'm sure he still has some contacts and insight into the organization. MPJ would be a nice pick up for Holiday and don't forget, until we hear otherwise, Wes Unseld Jr, a current Nugget coach is still under consideration for the Pelican job. I know the two stories are unrelated, but it makes for interesting thought.

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Originally Posted by As I See It

George Karl: "There is talk of Jrue Holiday landing with the Clippers, Pacers and other contenders. But I told @Adam_Mares recently the Nuggets want this guy next to Jamal Murray! Even if they need to be bold and throw a MPJ into a trade to make it happen!!" 6 hours ago ? via Twitter CoachKarl22

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Oh my...

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Originally Posted by DroopyDawg

Oh my...

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Oh wow, even if they were bold and threw in MPJ!

Alongside what other assets? Cause MPJ himself isn't getting the job done. Regardless of his offensive abilities his health is still an enormous issue, his mentality is very blatantly not good, his defensive projection is still poor at least partly due to the health issue, etc. He alone isn't worth a Jrue trade.

So what else? Obviously no Jokic or Murray at this point. Harris? Nah, sorry.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Oh wow, even if they were bold and threw in MPJ!

Alongside what other assets? Cause MPJ himself isn't getting the job done. Regardless of his offensive abilities his health is still an enormous issue, his mentality is very blatantly not good, his defensive projection is still poor at least partly due to the health issue, etc. He alone isn't worth a Jrue trade.

So what else? Obviously no Jokic or Murray at this point. Harris? Nah, sorry.

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I've seen MJP favorably compared to Joe Johnson (All Star), Gordon Haywood (All Star), Danilo Gallinari (16.2 for career / over 10 Year career), and even, Kevin Durant (Top Three Player of our Time). All have had injury problems during their careers.

Now, unless we are assured that Holiday will not opt out next summer, MJP and Harris would be a duo I would be all over (and they fit the time line)

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Originally Posted by As I See It

I've seen MJP favorably compared to Joe Johnson (All Star), Gordon Haywood (All Star), Danilo Gallinari (16.2 for career / over 10 Year career), and even, Kevin Durant (Top Three Player of our Time). All have had injury problems during their careers.

Now, unless we are assured that Holiday will not opt out next summer, MJP and Harris would be a duo I would be all over (and they fit the time line)

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None of them had multiple back surgeries before they were even in the NBA, and none of them come from a family of notably-injury-prone individuals. MPJs brother has wrecked legs and both of his sisters retired from all sports due to continuous injury issues.

In any case, the fact that you've seen him favourably compared to people who are so massively different in quality and play-style as KD, Joe Johnson, and Gallinari should be sparking some questions in your head, not just automatic acceptance. If you're seeing him compared variously to all-time great primary offensive weapon KD and also really good roleplayer and good third option who cannot be the focal point of any offense like Gallinari, maybe that's a sign that people don't generally have a solid consensus view on him outside of ''good at offense'', which I already noted myself, rather than that he's a guaranteed star in the making.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

None of them had multiple back surgeries before they were even in the NBA, and none of them come from a family of notably-injury-prone individuals. MPJs brother has wrecked legs and both of his sisters retired from all sports due to continuous injury issues.

In any case, the fact that you've seen him favourably compared to people who are so massively different in quality and play-style as KD, Joe Johnson, and Gallinari should be sparking some questions in your head, not just automatic acceptance. If you're seeing him compared variously to all-time great primary offensive weapon KD and also really good roleplayer and good third option who cannot be the focal point of any offense like Gallinari, maybe that's a sign that people don't generally have a solid consensus view on him outside of ''good at offense'', which I already noted myself, rather than that he's a guaranteed star in the making.

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If I may ask you...what exactly is Jrue Holiday? We all know about his abilities defensively, but who would you compare him too (current /past)? Is he much more than a third option offensively, if that (never mind how NO has used him)? Absent an extension, is one year of 30 year old Holiday worth more than the gamble on a 22 year old, once regarded as the top prospect in his draft and a fine rotational player, in Gary Harris?

If i were in denver's spot i would be hesitant to trade for a 1 year rental for jrue.... if jrue would accept an extension then that would drive his value up, if he doesn't commit then thats a big risk doing that trade and not sure if he would make them a contender for them to pull that trigger

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Originally Posted by As I See It

If I may ask you...what exactly is Jrue Holiday? We all know about his abilities defensively, but who would you compare him too (current /past)? Is he much more than a third option offensively, if that (never mind how NO has used him)? Absent an extension, is one year of 30 year old Holiday worth more than the gamble on a 22 year old, once regarded as the top prospect in his draft and a fine rotational player, in Gary Harris?

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I don't need to compare Jrue to anyone. The reason you make comparisons is either to project a younger player out into future potential, or to describe their playstyle when someone else hasn't seen them.

Jrue is a 10 year vet with over 700 NBA games under his belt, and I know you've seen him play. So I don't need to give a comparison: you wanna know what Jrue is like as a player? Go watch him again.

As for the rest I've been over my view on MPJ and Gary Harris in this thread and others a hundred times. Not going to reiterate it. Suffice it to say, it's contextually dependent.

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Originally Posted by PaKwAn

If i were in denver's spot i would be hesitant to trade for a 1 year rental for jrue.... if jrue would accept an extension then that would drive his value up, if he doesn't commit then thats a big risk doing that trade and not sure if he would make them a contender for them to pull that trigger

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I don’t think Jrue would turn down an extension. That a lot of money to leave on the table. I doubt he’ll get a contract offer on the open market on a contender that will offer him more than what an extension would give him.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I don't need to compare Jrue to anyone. The reason you make comparisons is either to project a younger player out into future potential, or to describe their playstyle when someone else hasn't seen them.

Jrue is a 10 year vet with over 700 NBA games under his belt, and I know you've seen him play. So I don't need to give a comparison: you wanna know what Jrue is like as a player? Go watch him again.

As for the rest I've been over my view on MPJ and Gary Harris in this thread and others a hundred times. Not going to reiterate it. Suffice it to say, it's contextually dependent.

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You are a pompous, eh, 'sort'. Aren't you?

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Jamal Murray just had an incredible playoff run. Don't let that fool you into thinking that those things were not true when they were written.

I issue one correction. Jamal Murray has had one season where he was above league average in efficiency, his sophomore year.

League Average TS% each year of his career: 55.2%, 55.6%, 56%, 56.5%
Jamal Murray's TS% each year of his career: 51.8%, 57.8%, 53.9%, 55.8%

What else is incorrect? That he's a poor defender? That's true, and is backed by both the eye test and the statistics (he's got a -0.7 DPIPM, for example, has never posted a positive net rating, has had a negative DBPM every year of his career, etc).

As for my point about him not being consistent, that's just basic truth about him.

The reason the Pels might do this trade is that you're betting on a mediocre player (not bad) who has shown signs of having something special. You might lose that bet, but if you think the upside is there (which this playoff run demonstrated it might be) then it's fair to take a swing.

In any case, it's a bit weird to reply to this 6 weeks after the initial post, after Murray's playoffs explosion changes the evaluation a bit.

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ah I didnt see the post date...my bad. didnt realize those were from 6 weeks ago.

but now things have changed and clearly denver wouldnt trade murray for jrue.

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Originally Posted by As I See It

I've seen MJP favorably compared to Joe Johnson (All Star), Gordon Haywood (All Star), Danilo Gallinari (16.2 for career / over 10 Year career), and even, Kevin Durant (Top Three Player of our Time). All have had injury problems during their careers.

Now, unless we are assured that Holiday will not opt out next summer, MJP and Harris would be a duo I would be all over (and they fit the time line)

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pretty sure denver wont trade those two for jrue either.

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Originally Posted by NugzFan

pretty sure denver wont trade those two for jrue either.

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Just Responding to another poster. Absent a LTC, I wouldn't make that trade either.

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Originally Posted by As I See It

Just Responding to another poster. Absent a LTC, I wouldn't make that trade either.

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can you even negotiate a LTC into a trade?

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Originally Posted by NugzFan

can you even negotiate a LTC into a trade?

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No, but teams get assurances from a player before a trade. That is why the Hornets lost out on Curry in a CP3 trade because CP3 would not give GS any assurances that he would re-sign with them.

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

No, but teams get assurances from a player before a trade. That is why the Hornets lost out on Curry in a CP3 trade because CP3 would not give GS any assurances that he would re-sign with them.

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oh makes sense.

I dont think I would trade mpj+ for jrue even with a LTC assurance though.

if the pelicans want to trade jrue, do you guys think they want more youth and picks or veteran players?

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Originally Posted by As I See It

You are a pompous, eh, 'sort'. Aren't you?

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:rolleyes:

What about sending Jrue to GSW?

GSW receive: Jrue Holiday and Darius Miller and a future 2022 1st rounder.

PELS receive: Andrew Wiggins, Marquese Chriss and the 2nd pick of the draft.

Draft Lamelo Ball and with the 13th pick get Vernon Carey the center from Duke.

lineup:

PG: Lonzo Ball, Lamelo Ball
SG: Ingram, Reddick, NAW
SF: Wiggins, Hart
PF: Zion, Melli
C: Hayes, Chriss, Carey

You could also try Lamelo at pg and Lonzo at SG

What do y?all think?


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Originally Posted by pelicanchamp

What about sending Jrue to GSW?

GSW receive: Jrue Holiday and Darius Miller and a future 2022 1st rounder.

PELS receive: Andrew Wiggins, Marquese Chriss and the 2nd pick of the draft.

Draft Lamelo Ball and with the 13th pick get Vernon Carey the center from Duke.

lineup:

PG: Lonzo Ball, Lamelo Ball
SG: Ingram, Reddick, NAW
SF: Wiggins, Hart
PF: Zion, Melli
C: Hayes, Chriss, Carey

You could also try Lamelo at pg and Lonzo at SG

What do y?all think?


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Absolutely not.

Firstly, Lamelo is generally predicted to go #1, so if you're trading up to #2 with the hopes of getting Lamelo you have to recognise that that is far from a likely outcome. Secondly, I wouldn't be drafting Lamelo top 3 anyway, I don't rate his top end outcomes highly enough and I think his bust potential is higher than many are willing to admit. Not saying he could never be a star, he does have some ridiculous outlier skills, but I don't rate it probable enough to justify this trade or drafting him at that spot.

Next up, Wiggins sucks.

In this situation, we're moving the best player and the best pick (2022 is looking to be a pretty good draft whereas this one is notably poor, therefore acquiring higher picks in it is not a great value play in general) and getting nothing of even close to fair value in return.

And Vernon Carey isn't a first round pick.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Absolutely not.

Firstly, Lamelo is generally predicted to go #1, so if you're trading up to #2 with the hopes of getting Lamelo you have to recognise that that is far from a likely outcome. Secondly, I wouldn't be drafting Lamelo top 3 anyway, I don't rate his top end outcomes highly enough and I think his bust potential is higher than many are willing to admit. Not saying he could never be a star, he does have some ridiculous outlier skills, but I don't rate it probable enough to justify this trade or drafting him at that spot.

Next up, Wiggins sucks.

In this situation, we're moving the best player and the best pick (2022 is looking to be a pretty good draft whereas this one is notably poor, therefore acquiring higher picks in it is not a great value play in general) and getting nothing of even close to fair value in return.

And Vernon Carey isn't a first round pick.

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Would you move Jrue to NETS for Spencer Dinwiddie and Jarret Allen?

Or Jrue, Miller, and Okafor and 2023 1st to GSW for Draymond Green? They probably wouldn?t do that though.

Or Jrue, Melli, and Miller to Denver for Barton, MPG and Denver?s 2020 1st round pick?

Or Jrue to Clippers for Paul George?


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Originally Posted by pelicanchamp

Would you move Jrue to NETS for Spencer Dinwiddie and Jarret Allen?

Or Jrue, Miller, and Okafor and 2023 1st to GSW for Draymond Green? They probably wouldn?t do that though.

Or Jrue, Melli, and Miller to Denver for Barton, MPG and Denver?s 2020 1st round pick?

Or Jrue to Clippers for Paul George?


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Probably not honestly.

1) Dinwiddie is basically Jrue's age and is due a huge payday.

2) Draymond is older than Jrue I think, and is also on a big contract, and also why would I add a first?

3) Will Barton is good but not that good, my feelings on MPJ are detailed in this thread, Denver's picks are very late.

4) Don't trust PG13 as far as I can throw him. Playoff P.

I feel like if I'm trading Jrue, I want someone back that I can imagine actually being on the roster in a few years and who is a solid player. I'm not particularly looking for a big because we have Jax, and while Zion isn't a ''big'' he plays the PF position anyway. My preference would be for a guard because we're losing Jrue and he's our only guy who can actually run offense in the half-court, although a pick or two can loosen that requirement somewhat because then you can try and draft a guard.

This is, of course, assuming that we move Jrue which I don't think is necessarily something we should do anyway.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Probably not honestly.

1) Dinwiddie is basically Jrue's age and is due a huge payday.

2) Draymond is older than Jrue I think, and is also on a big contract, and also why would I add a first?

3) Will Barton is good but not that good, my feelings on MPJ are detailed in this thread, Denver's picks are very late.

4) Don't trust PG13 as far as I can throw him. Playoff P.

I feel like if I'm trading Jrue, I want someone back that I can imagine actually being on the roster in a few years and who is a solid player. I'm not particularly looking for a big because we have Jax, and while Zion isn't a ''big'' he plays the PF position anyway. My preference would be for a guard because we're losing Jrue and he's our only guy who can actually run offense in the half-court, although a pick or two can loosen that requirement somewhat because then you can try and draft a guard.

This is, of course, assuming that we move Jrue which I don't think is necessarily something we should do anyway.

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What about a trade to the pacers for victor olidipo


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Originally Posted by pelicanchamp

What about a trade to the pacers for victor olidipo


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Holiday and Redick for Oladipo (on an expiring 1 year deal) and Turner all day.

Absolutely zero interest in Oladipo.

Again, not much younger than Jrue, but also has been awful for several years. The reason for this is largely that his body has been periodically exploding over the last few seasons. He's barely played and when he has he's looked bad.

I'm not betting that he returns to a high level, and even if he does, do I want him to be taking 18 shots a game and being the primary ballhandler on this team? No I don't. I'm not looking to acquire a first or second option that is going to stunt Zion's development by taking all the ball-handling reps.

Buddy Hield wants out of Sac...

https://sports.yahoo.com/sacramento-...005134015.html


27yrs old, 19.2 pts/game, 4.6 reb, 3 asst, .394 from three on 9.6 attempts per game...

Buddy is an incredible, all time level shooter.

That is literally all he is. Mediocre passer, poor defender, does really get to the basket at all, doesn't really have a developed in between game, doesn't really playmake for others, doesn't get to the line.

He's a good roleplayer, and his shooting really is elite and very valuable. It's not $24m next year valuable.

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Originally Posted by SoCal4Pels

Buddy Hield wants out of Sac...

https://sports.yahoo.com/sacramento-...005134015.html


27yrs old, 19.2 pts/game, 4.6 reb, 3 asst, .394 from three on 9.6 attempts per game...

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Throw in your number one and we can talk.

Then we could trade 12 / 13 to get a top five pick (LeMelo, Avdija, or Hayes)

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Absolutely not.

Firstly, Lamelo is generally predicted to go #1, so if you're trading up to #2 with the hopes of getting Lamelo you have to recognise that that is far from a likely outcome. Secondly, I wouldn't be drafting Lamelo top 3 anyway, I don't rate his top end outcomes highly enough and I think his bust potential is higher than many are willing to admit. Not saying he could never be a star, he does have some ridiculous outlier skills, but I don't rate it probable enough to justify this trade or drafting him at that spot.

Next up, Wiggins sucks.

In this situation, we're moving the best player and the best pick (2022 is looking to be a pretty good draft whereas this one is notably poor, therefore acquiring higher picks in it is not a great value play in general) and getting nothing of even close to fair value in return.

And Vernon Carey isn't a first round pick.

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Yeah but I feel like you're overlooking the addition of Chriss in this trade.

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Originally Posted by ml wave

Yeah but I feel like you're overlooking the addition of Chriss in this trade.

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Chriss is not a deal-making calibre player.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Chriss is not a deal-making calibre player.

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Which, based on the rest of your analysis, would make him the centerpiece of this proposed trade!

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Originally Posted by ml wave

Which, based on the rest of your analysis, would make him the centerpiece of this proposed trade!

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...what?

This trade idea is a modification of several shown on web. Would you do it? If not, what then?

Heat gets: JRUE HOLIDAY

Pelicans get: DUNCAN ROBINSON, KENDRICK NUNN, KELLY OLYNYK, and MIA's 2020 first round pick.

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Originally Posted by Silver Nail

This trade idea is a modification of several shown on web. Would you do it? If not, what then?

Heat gets: JRUE HOLIDAY

Pelicans get: DUNCAN ROBINSON, KENDRICK NUNN, KELLY OLYNYK, and MIA's 2020 first round pick.

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I dont think Griff does that one, but I would if we can send Nunn off for something of value. Like, can I send he and JJ to Milwaukee for Bledsoe?

Lonzo-Bledsoe-Ingram-Zion-Olynyk

Hart, Melli and Robinson as main bench guys. Still got my MLE. Hope a young guy or two can be solid rotation guy (between Frank, NAW, and Hayes). Got picks 13, 20, 39, 42, and 60 to move around with. Can be competitive this year. Have lots of expirings and/or deals with 2 years left if right guy comes available.

I would do that deal. If you trade Jrue, you are trading JJ

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

I dont think Griff does that one, but I would if we can send Nunn off for something of value. Like, can I send he and JJ to Milwaukee for Bledsoe?

Lonzo-Bledsoe-Ingram-Zion-Olynyk

Hart, Melli and Robinson as main bench guys. Still got my MLE. Hope a young guy or two can be solid rotation guy (between Frank, NAW, and Hayes). Got picks 13, 20, 39, 42, and 60 to move around with. Can be competitive this year. Have lots of expirings and/or deals with 2 years left if right guy comes available.

I would do that deal. If you trade Jrue, you are trading JJ

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Getting Robinson and Olynyk 3pt shooting make JJ redundant anyway. And the Bledsoe deal would be okay but I hope Griff has the chips necessary for the VanVleet BID

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Originally Posted by Silver Nail

Getting Robinson and Olynyk 3pt shooting make JJ redundant anyway. And the Bledsoe deal would be okay but I hope Griff has the chips necessary for the VanVleet BID

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I don't think Vanvleet is going to have success outside of TO. If you don't enjoy the art of green lighting horrible shots and making them. Then, Vanvleet will be incredibly frustrating to watch on a bad team.

Are we going to re-sign Favors? What do we do with Okafor, Frank Jackson, Moore, Kenny, ???


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I say we get the right coach for Ball, Ingram and Zion. Focus heavily on Ball attacking the basket. No more finesse bs. Get angry and attack the basket. Lonzo is very athletic. He needs to eat more and put on 10-15 lbs of muscle. He really should weigh 210. If he could put on more muscle I think he could go to the basket without fear. If he solves that one problem he could be a perennial All Star. Improve FT shooting to 70 percent and ATTACK the rim so we can run the pnr in half court. If Lonzo can?t improve a lot in this area we need to move him. His improvement will change this team so much.


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Originally Posted by pelicanchamp

I say we get the right coach for Ball, Ingram and Zion. Focus heavily on Ball attacking the basket. No more finesse bs. Get angry and attack the basket. Lonzo is very athletic. He needs to eat more and put on 10-15 lbs of muscle. He really should weigh 210. If he could put on more muscle I think he could go to the basket without fear. If he solves that one problem he could be a perennial All Star. Improve FT shooting to 70 percent and ATTACK the rim so we can run the pnr in half court. If Lonzo can?t improve a lot in this area we need to move him. His improvement will change this team so much.


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You make it sound so easy, but when you break it down it's astounding how significant those changes actually are.

1) Put on quite a lot of good quality muscle.
2) Improve at essentially all half-court offense, from driving to general pick and roll skills
3) Improve FT shooting by 20% or more

Like, that's a lot. That's something that makes you look at an 18 year old entering the draft with some side-eyes.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

You make it sound so easy, but when you break it down it's astounding how significant those changes actually are.

1) Put on quite a lot of good quality muscle.
2) Improve at essentially all half-court offense, from driving to general pick and roll skills
3) Improve FT shooting by 20% or more

Like, that's a lot. That's something that makes you look at an 18 year old entering the draft with some side-eyes.

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It?s not easy. And it?s not likely. But, it?s not good to have a pg who can?t drive to the basket. Something has to change.


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Originally Posted by pelicanchamp

It?s not easy. And it?s not likely. But, it?s not good to have a pg who can?t drive to the basket. Something has to change.


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Well absolutely, the ability to drive is fundamental for a lead ball handler in today's NBA. But I'd rather just move Lonzo than cross my fingers and hope he figures out multiple major, gaping holes in his game within the next year or so.

Unfortunately with Lonzo, as I have posted a few times, his issues are primarily mental. Talent can override this if you are a specialist or role-player, but not the starting PG/floor general. If management is smart, they will see this as well, and hopefully get value for him before the rest of the league takes too much notice.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

...what?

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Just a joke man...you (correctly) trashed every other part of this deal.

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Originally Posted by ml wave

Just a joke man...you (correctly) trashed every other part of this deal.

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*shrug* not my fault the deal's bad