1st August - New Orleans Pelicans vs LA Clippers - 0-1 (28-37) - Bubble Game 2

I'm not even caring about victory anymore, we've lot. It would be an absolute miracle the likes of which I have never seen for us to win this.

But I will get a little respect back if they can play this second half like they care and cut the lead down from 30+ to half that.

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

And I'm gonna say it. Zion is way, way, way too heavy. He's looking like Robert Traylor (RIP) out there. The dude needs to slim, way, way, way, way down. It's not because of injury. It's because of fatigue. It's because I'd rather Zion be quick, and light. Than strong and lumbering.

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With all due respect.

We have no idea what he weighs. Three weeks ago pictures of him came out where he looked easily 20lbs lighter than he had been in season. I don't think he's gained that 20lbs plus some back in less than a month.

Does he weigh 260lbs? 270lbs? 285 still? No clue. None of us know; only the med and training staff do.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I'm not even caring about victory anymore, we've lot. It would be an absolute miracle the likes of which I have never seen for us to win this.

But I will get a little respect back if they can play this second half like they care and cut the lead down from 30+ to half that.

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Doc Rivers is pretty classy. So, I wouldn't be surprised they call off the dogs soon.

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Originally Posted by Taker597

Doc Rivers is pretty classy. So, I wouldn't be surprised they call off the dogs soon.

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Then it doesn't count.

No points for cutting the lead if the other team isn't even trying to maintain it :hihi:

Clippers are legit going to set a new NBA record for 3s in a game lol.

They have 20 in 32 minutes. I think the record is 24 in a game? May be 25.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

With all due respect.

We have no idea what he weighs. Three weeks ago pictures of him came out where he looked easily 20lbs lighter than he had been in season. I don't think he's gained that 20lbs plus some back in less than a month.

Does he weigh 260lbs? 270lbs? 285 still? No clue. None of us know; only the med and training staff do.

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Dude. With all due respect. The guy is clearly overweight rn. It's palpable in every close-up rn. He's fat, and if he isn't serious about getting his weight down, he'll have a short career. Have to face reality here.

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Originally Posted by Funcrusher

Dude. With all due respect. The guy is clearly overweight rn. It's palpable in every close-up rn. He's fat, and if he isn't serious about getting his weight down, he'll have a short career. Have to face reality here.

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Thank you Doctor Funcrusher.

Another note, just to add.

Right now Clippers have 24 FTAs; we have 15.

Last game, Jazz had 28, we had 18.

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Originally Posted by Funcrusher

Dude. With all due respect. The guy is clearly overweight rn. It's palpable in every close-up rn. He's fat, and if he isn't serious about getting his weight down, he'll have a short career. Have to face reality here.

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No, dude. No.

It's not about his health. I think he can have a long career at any size...but I want him quick. I want him more dominant. It's hard for him to maintain a high level of stamina the way he's looking out there. Don't talk about some his knees or his ankles and his hops or whatever. That's not the problem. I care about his efficacy and being agile enough to matter on defense.

Also, there's Moore.

So Gentry's played his 11 men.

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

And I'm gonna say it. Zion is way, way, way too heavy. He's looking like Robert Traylor (RIP) out there. The dude needs to slim, way, way, way, way down. It's not because of injury. It's because of fatigue. It's because I'd rather Zion be quick, and light. Than strong and lumbering.

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Let's please please please not start this nonsense. If you didnt say this when he was dropping 23 ppg, then dont start now.

If you don't want to trust your eyes on this one, so be it. This is a forum; we're fans. Logical speculation is natural and part of the deal. You have to be able to connect the dots at this point. He's a 20 year old who's being played 15, 20 minutes a game. The reasoning given from Griff and the medical team is, "reconditioning." He's not 260 lbs, lol, not even close.

i said the nets should call it in and go home.....now im thinking we should just go home lol....

Losing by 40. Are you kidding me?

Is it the coaching? The defense?

I've been half ****** watching this on my Ipad as i build a ladder for my kids trampoline. WTF is going on?

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Originally Posted by Funcrusher

If you don't want to trust your eyes on this one, so be it. This is a forum; we're fans. Logical speculation is natural and part of the deal. You have to be able to connect the dots at this point. He's a 20 year old who's being played 15, 20 minutes a game. The reasoning given from Griff and the medical team is, "reconditioning." He's not 260 lbs, lol, not even close.

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Wanna give us your informed opinion on his weight? I mean, I know they have a medical staff who can actually measure him and determine if his weight is an issue and if so, how much by, but why would I trust that when I could rely on you eyeballin' it on your TV screen?

Let me guess, he's 300lbs minimum, 35% body fat?

Alright. One more quarter to go. We've got them right where we want them. Just like Chelsea did, today. We have to nurse this game. No let downs like two nights ago.

Motto for the year: Won't Bow Down. Guess they forgot to tell them the motto includes "Won't Bow Out" either. SMH

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Originally Posted by luckyman

Let's please please please not start this nonsense. If you didnt say this when he was dropping 23 ppg, then dont start now.

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Man... I wish never had to do this restart. Zion and Lonzo was on fire in March.

I'm not talking about his knees. I'm saying he has literally no stamina rn and it's palpable at the end of every "burst." I'm not talking about his knees, though we can't just handwave that concern either. I'm talking about him being exhausted in 3-4 minute spurts, conserving energy on d to the point of getting match hunted on nearly every possession. Fatigue is the most natural avenue to injury, no?

Okay so the record for most made 3s in a game is 27, right now, held by the Rockets.

Clippers are on 21 with a quarter to go.

Right now they have made 7 3s per quarter. If they make that average this quarter, that's a new record with 28 total.

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Originally Posted by Funcrusher

I'm not. I'm saying he has literally no stamina rn and it's palpable at the end of every "burst." I'm not talking about his knees, though we can't just handwave that concern either. I'm talking about him being exhausted in 3-4 minute spurts, conserving energy on d to the point of getting match hunted on nearly every possession. Fatigue is the most natural avenue to injury, no?

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Everyone is already frustrated by this game. Just let it go

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

And I'm gonna say it. Zion is way, way, way too heavy. He's looking like Robert Traylor (RIP) out there. The dude needs to slim, way, way, way, way down. It's not because of injury. It's because of fatigue. It's because I'd rather Zion be quick, and light. Than strong and lumbering.

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His knees rather he be quick and lite.

The current NBA favors perimeter players and that's what we should be developing Zion as. Trying to make him a small ball 5 or even a 4 to me is doing him a great disservice. And of course that's what we did this season.

For what it's worth...

Billy Donovan is my choice. He's a .600 coach winning with and without George and MVP Russel Wesbrook. And making the Playoffs every year in the tough West (5 for 5)

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Wanna give us your informed opinion on his weight? I mean, I know they have a medical staff who can actually measure him and determine if his weight is an issue and if so, how much by, but why would I trust that when I could rely on you eyeballin' it on your TV screen?

Let me guess, he's 300lbs minimum, 35% body fat?

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no need to get snarky. You automatically thinking my mentality is on the opposite end of the spectrum is ridiculous. To answer your question, he's definitely over 285 rn. Is he over 300? I dunno. I don't care, i just want to see him leaner, i don't see how that's unreasonable considering he is literally not being allowed to play more than 20 mins atm.

One of the worst things about a bad loss is how people let it immediately go right to their heads and they feel the need to just radically change everything.

Bad loss?

Fire Gentry, get Zion down to 210lbs, trade Lonzo, turn BI into a centre, start Frank Jackson at power forward, refuse to shoot 3s ever on religious grounds, etc etc.

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Originally Posted by As I See It

For what it's worth...

Billy Donovan is my choice. He's a .600 coach winning with and without George and MVP Russel Wesbrook. And making the Playoffs every year in the tough West (5 for 5)

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They need an energetic disciplinarian that might even micro manage.

They need structure and identity on both ends of the court.

Firing Gentry is nothing new, chap.

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Originally Posted by luckyman

Let's please please please not start this nonsense. If you didnt say this when he was dropping 23 ppg, then dont start now.

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He could still drop 23 even now. He looked heavy and moved heavily when he was during the season.

We never saw the same level of hustle as when he was at Duke. Not even close.

Edit: This is not a new take from me just because we're losing.

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

Once he's gotten a bit more svelte and trim, he's going to have the ability to tap into his physical gifts for longer in the game.

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Originally Posted by luckyman

They need an energetic disciplinarian that might even micro manage.

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That was Tom Thibodaux.

I'm interested to see how the Pels writers handle this actually.

Whenever anything goes wrong people blame Gentry. Sometimes they're super wrong to do that (I've seen people do it after good games where rotations were good and plays were good and we just happened to miss a lot, nobody's fault) but sometimes they have a good point. We all know Gentry's rotations are shaky at best, we all know he has a stylistic preference for 3s over anything else, we all know he's slow to make adjustments against diverse teams, etc.

Yet whenever someone says ''man we need to fire Gentry, he always does this awful stuff'', someone will come out to argue that actually this is just an unfair hate train and try to play damage control.

Now, is it Gentry's fault that we turned it over a lot tonight? No. Is it his fault that the Clippers made a ton of 3s? Also no.

Is it his fault that our rotations suck regularly? That our lineups often go 4 guards with no ball handler for minutes on end? That Zion gets half his minutes with 4-man bench lineups? That we go 11 men deep basically every night?

Yeah that's his fault. Wonder how blame is gonna get deflected this time.

It's reasonable to believe Zion might be a bit heavy.. He clearly would benefit from lightening up and improving his stamina.

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Originally Posted by As I See It

That was Tom Thibodaux.

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You only hire Thibodeau if you want someone to run 2012 era defensive schemes and play everyone 39 minutes a game while failing to run a good offense.

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Originally Posted by Nichols

It's reasonable to believe Zion might be a bit heavy.. He clearly would benefit from lightening up and improving his stamina.

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I think there's a difference between saying ''I don't know how much Zion weighs but he might benefit from losing a bit of a weight'', and going ''we gotta FACE FACTS, he is FAT, his career is DYING cause he's FAT'', etc etc.

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Originally Posted by As I See It

Firing Gentry is nothing new, chap.

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Never said it was. Just saying it always comes up after the bad games.

Which it does.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I'm interested to see how the Pels writers handle this actually.

Whenever anything goes wrong people blame Gentry. Sometimes they're super wrong to do that (I've seen people do it after good games where rotations were good and plays were good and we just happened to miss a lot, nobody's fault) but sometimes they have a good point. We all know Gentry's rotations are shaky at best, we all know he has a stylistic preference for 3s over anything else, we all know he's slow to make adjustments against diverse teams, etc.

Yet whenever someone says ''man we need to fire Gentry, he always does this awful stuff'', someone will come out to argue that actually this is just an unfair hate train and try to play damage control.

Now, is it Gentry's fault that we turned it over a lot tonight? No. Is it his fault that the Clippers made a ton of 3s? Also no.

Is it his fault that our rotations suck regularly? That our lineups often go 4 guards with no ball handler for minutes on end? That Zion gets half his minutes with 4-man bench lineups? That we go 11 men deep basically every night?

Yeah that's his fault. Wonder how blame is gonna get deflected this time.

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Then, when, sir, after five years of garbage play will Alvin be held to account?

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

One of the worst things about a bad loss is how people let it immediately go right to their heads and they feel the need to just radically change everything.

Bad loss?

Fire Gentry, get Zion down to 210lbs, trade Lonzo, turn BI into a centre, start Frank Jackson at power forward, refuse to shoot 3s ever on religious grounds, etc etc.

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no, no, and no. Im not saying the guy should lose 50lbs, jesus christ. this is a legitime concern i've had for a while and i refuse to let my point be straw-maned. He's out of shape, that's why he's on a minutes restriction. You really are just gonna hang onto "Well, the medical staff hasn't given an official weight yet, so we should all just assume he's in the best condition in his life?" Seriously? He doesn't need to lose a lot of weight, he needs to get back to where he was at Duke, or even back to where he was in the preseason. He's absolutely massive now.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I think there's a difference between saying ''I don't know how much Zion weighs but he might benefit from losing a bit of a weight'', and going ''we gotta FACE FACTS, he is FAT, his career is DYING cause he's FAT'', etc etc.

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I'll give you that.. So we can all agree that he needs to tighten it up, to what extent I guess is up for debate. It will definitely prolong his career. The heavy explosive types don't usually have long productive careers.

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Originally Posted by Funcrusher

no, no, and no. Im not saying the guy should lose 50lbs, jesus christ. this is a legitime concern i've had for a while and i refuse to let my point be straw-maned. He's out of shape, that's why he's on a minutes restriction. You really are just gonna hang onto "Well, the medical staff hasn't given an official weight yet, so we should all just assume he's in the best condition in his life?" Seriously? He doesn't need to lose a lot of weight, he needs to get back to where he was at Duke, or even back to where he was in the preseason. He's absolutely massive now.

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I used that number for 2 reasons.

1) Before the season, Gilbert Arenas said Zion should be 210, maybe 220lbs and play SG, so it was a reference to that.
2) Each statement in the list became more ridiculous on purpose, for the reasons of comedic escalated impact. Nobody has said we should put Frank at PF either, it was clearly exaggerated for a joke.

My point is that you do not know how much he weighs now, or at Duke. People were calling him fat at Duke too, but now you're saying he needs to get back to that. Since people have called him fat basically at whatever weight he's been for the last 3 years, I just don't think it's worth discussing anymore. The medical staff that actually knows what they're doing and have his actual records will do what they can, and we just have to accept that.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I'm interested to see how the Pels writers handle this actually.

Whenever anything goes wrong people blame Gentry. Sometimes they're super wrong to do that (I've seen people do it after good games where rotations were good and plays were good and we just happened to miss a lot, nobody's fault) but sometimes they have a good point. We all know Gentry's rotations are shaky at best, we all know he has a stylistic preference for 3s over anything else, we all know he's slow to make adjustments against diverse teams, etc.

Yet whenever someone says ''man we need to fire Gentry, he always does this awful stuff'', someone will come out to argue that actually this is just an unfair hate train and try to play damage control.

Now, is it Gentry's fault that we turned it over a lot tonight? No. Is it his fault that the Clippers made a ton of 3s? Also no.

Is it his fault that our rotations suck regularly? That our lineups often go 4 guards with no ball handler for minutes on end? That Zion gets half his minutes with 4-man bench lineups? That we go 11 men deep basically every night?

Yeah that's his fault. Wonder how blame is gonna get deflected this time.

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You blame Gentry for this team losing by 40+ under these desperate circumstances. This isn't some random back to back game in January missing starters.

Way too much talent for this to ever happen. Inexcusable.

1. His awful rotations
2. Steadfast attitude to play as many players as he can get away with
3. Lack of offensive structure
4. Leaving multiple reserves in too long
5. Inability to adapt to the opposition are most of the issues.

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Originally Posted by As I See It

Then, when, sir, after five years of garbage play will Alvin be held to account?

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No idea.

Personally I wanted him fired and replaced with Hammon before this season, but hey, nobody asks what I want :hihi:

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Originally Posted by luckyman

You blame Gentry for this team losing by 40+ under these desperate circumstances. This isn't some random back to back game in January missing starters.

Way too much talent for this to ever happen. Inexcusable.

His awful rotations, steadfast attitude to play as many players as he can get away with, lack of offensive structure, and leaving multiple reserves in too long, and inability to adapt to the opposition are most of the issues.

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Yeah, I'm not defending Gentry lol

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I used that number for 2 reasons.

1) Before the season, Gilbert Arenas said Zion should be 210, maybe 220lbs and play SG, so it was a reference to that.
2) Each statement in the list became more ridiculous on purpose, for the reasons of comedic escalated impact. Nobody has said we should put Frank at PF either, it was clearly exaggerated for a joke.

My point is that you do not know how much he weighs now, or at Duke. People were calling him fat at Duke too, but now you're saying he needs to get back to that. Since people have called him fat basically at whatever weight he's been for the last 3 years, I just don't think it's worth discussing anymore. The medical staff that actually knows what they're doing and have his actual records will do what they can, and we just have to accept that.

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ok, fair enough. tbc, i never considered him fat at duke, and regardless, i was seeing a different level of activity between then and now. Im sure part of that is being a rookie and Gentry being Gentry, but i think him gaining weight has contributed as well, though i suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree here.

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Originally Posted by Funcrusher

ok, fair enough. tbc, i never considered him fat at duke, and regardless, i was seeing a different level of activity between then and now. Im sure part of that is being a rookie and Gentry being Gentry, but i think him gaining weight has contributed as well, though i suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree here.

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His activity is definitely down. Not sure whether to call that rookie teething problems (he's one of the youngest players in his class, and he missed half the year), the awful coaching and team situation, the injury aftermath, the weight fluctuations, or a little bit of everything.

NAW is the team's leading scorer (15).

Leaving aside all the potential health ramifications and other very serious and grave real world issues. Biggest thing COVID cost the Pelicans is a full offseason with total access to the facility and direct contact with training staff. Unfortunately, we won't get that proper offseason until NEXT year at this rate. Assuming a vaccine is produced and deemed effective by then.

Questions I have here, would appreciate answers from anyone:

Basically everyone on this board wants Gentry gone at this point. There might be one or two people who don't, and some others maybe aren't desperate for it, but we all agree that Alvin Gentry is not the coach of the future for this franchise.

So

1) In looking for a new coach, what do you prioritise? Knowing that all coaches with really good strong coaching records are pretty much employed, so you can't just say ''I want to prioritise a coach with rings'' or something lol.

2) For that new coach, what would be an acceptable time period for you before you start judging them ''seriously'' again? Do they get a half-season to adjust, or do calls for firings begin if we start 0-3 with the new coach next year?

3) Do you support keeping Alvin on in some capacity, such as moving him to the front office?

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Questions I have here, would appreciate answers from anyone:

Basically everyone on this board wants Gentry gone at this point. There might be one or two people who don't, and some others maybe aren't desperate for it, but we all agree that Alvin Gentry is not the coach of the future for this franchise.

So

1) In looking for a new coach, what do you prioritise? Knowing that all coaches with really good strong coaching records are pretty much employed, so you can't just say ''I want to prioritise a coach with rings'' or something lol.

2) For that new coach, what would be an acceptable time period for you before you start judging them ''seriously'' again? Do they get a half-season to adjust, or do calls for firings begin if we start 0-3 with the new coach next year?

3) Do you support keeping Alvin on in some capacity, such as moving him to the front office?

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Edit: and of course feel free to give suggestions for your pick for replacement. Note that if you say Jeff Van Gundy or Mark Jackson I am ignoring you

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Questions I have here, would appreciate answers from anyone:

Basically everyone on this board wants Gentry gone at this point. There might be one or two people who don't, and some others maybe aren't desperate for it, but we all agree that Alvin Gentry is not the coach of the future for this franchise.

So

1) In looking for a new coach, what do you prioritise? Knowing that all coaches with really good strong coaching records are pretty much employed, so you can't just say ''I want to prioritise a coach with rings'' or something lol.

2) For that new coach, what would be an acceptable time period for you before you start judging them ''seriously'' again? Do they get a half-season to adjust, or do calls for firings begin if we start 0-3 with the new coach next year?

3) Do you support keeping Alvin on in some capacity, such as moving him to the front office?

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The biggest thing is finding a coach that is known for developing young players.

As far as a time frame it depends on the coach. If it's a young inexperienced coach they get a larger window.

Gentry says he doesn't believe effort was an issue tonight. It was more about his team's poor decision-making and the Clippers having a great shooting night.

— Will Guillory (@WillGuillory) August 2, 2020

Gentry doesn't believe effort was an issue.

Okay.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

The biggest thing is finding a coach that is known for developing young players.

As far as a time frame it depends on the coach. If it's a young inexperienced coach they get a larger window.

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Kenny Atkinson?