October 28th - New Orleans Pelicans VS Golden State Warriors - 0-3

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Originally Posted by PineBeltPelican

As frustrating as this is right now I believe this team is going to be fun to watch over the next several seasons. I hope I’m right anyway!

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I hope Gentry is part of the team when we become a winning team, are they hiring janitors?

It’s amazing to me how this team struggles to score in the paint all season but once Hayes comes into the game, we start abusing the paint with Hayes and suddenly the lane opens up for the guards. I don’t understand why Hayes can’t buy any minutes at all especially considering how bad this frontcourt is without Zion.

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Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25

This loss tonight was simply bad shooting and defense early on. This wasn’t Gentry or some other crap people wanna say. Plain and simple bad shooting which makes for bad defense.

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And the 11 other times we lose to the GSW since Gentry been here.

It's like outshooting GSW and pushing the pace into their favor is a bad idea, but it's always the players fault. Not this system.

Also let’s chill out. We are in a win win situation this season. It’s all about development and seeing players show their value. Yes we want everything to click on all cylinders which will come when we are healthy in a few weeks. Again a win win.. We make a run at the playoffs them great! We have a crap record because then we have another lottery pick.. everyone knew to expect this so I don’t see the fuss

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Originally Posted by Snarly

It’s amazing to me how this team struggles to score in the paint all season but once Hayes comes into the game, we start abusing the paint with Hayes and suddenly the lane opens up for the guards. I don’t understand why Hayes can’t buy any minutes at all especially considering how bad this frontcourt is without Zion.

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This is how Gentry treat rookies. Remember Hield? Dog him on the bench instead of letting him play like he afraid to lose games. It's not like he's gonna win them at this point of the season.

Zion was a real monkey wrench to our season

Win win situation... lol

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Originally Posted by Taker597

And the 11 other times we lose to the GSW since Gentry been here.

It's like outshooting GSW and pushing the pace into their favor is a bad idea, but it's always the players fault. Not this system.

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Just like damn near every team in the NBA has for the past how many years? LoL we lost to a still solid GS team that is playoff caliber.

Ha! Before this game people were saying that the Warriors were trash. Now here we are sleeping in a dumpster.

So I’ll just throw this out there now.. maybe a couple more times over the years.. I was right on Ingram!! LoL

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Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25

So I’ll just throw this out there now.. maybe a couple more times over the years.. I was right on Ingram!! LoL

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I don’t know what you said, but if you said he would be a franchise player, then you were spot on.

It's whatever. Par for the course.

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Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25

So I’ll just throw this out there now.. maybe a couple more times over the years.. I was right on Ingram!! LoL

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Like I said over and over again.. Anyone that actually watched the kid play and wasn't bias would have known this was coming. It was obvious.

Also worth mentioning, he has been playing PG, Shooting Guard, Small Forward, throughout his young career. And now he's playing PF for the first time and doing it well.

What an odd year this will be. Started 4-0 last year, now 0-4 this year.

I do not like that Gentry said he wants 40 threes per game. You see the outcome of that stupid **** so far.

They dont even know how to run plays to get clean looks at the rim. It's all a struggle until somebody jacks a 3 or beats their man one-on-one.

And the defense....woof!

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Originally Posted by Snarly

It’s amazing to me how this team struggles to score in the paint all season but once Hayes comes into the game, we start abusing the paint with Hayes and suddenly the lane opens up for the guards. I don’t understand why Hayes can’t buy any minutes at all especially considering how bad this frontcourt is without Zion.

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IIRC, he really started imposing his will as Curry and Green shut it down. They say this is a stars' league for a reason. Ours are on the bench.

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Originally Posted by luckyman

What an odd year this will be. Started 4-0 last year, now 0-4 this year.

I do not like that Gentry said he wants 40 threes per game. You see the outcome of that stupid **** so far.

They dont even know how to run plays to get clean looks at the rim. It's all a struggle until somebody jacks a 3 or beats their man one-on-one.

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You got so much new personnel. You figured Gentry would like to start season a little safe, but nope. It's all out of control chaos. I never believe their logic behind players get injured regardless if it fast or slow. I firmly believe that Gentry starts the season too fast and we always get bodied by injuries.

I'm not asking for Monty pace, but tone it down a bit. Let the player gel and play safe. Get your defense sound and then up the pace in a few weeks.

So was cutting Wood for Kenny H still the right call?

TERRIBLE first 3 quarters and very good 4. We still have a lot to learn. #WorkInProgress

First loss of the season I've been unhappy about. What a terrible game. We went in there against a team that's equally as short handed as we are, with fewer actual NBA Players on it, and got buried. Ugly stuff.

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Originally Posted by Nichols

Like I said over and over again.. Anyone that actually watched the kid play and wasn't bias would have known this was coming. It was obvious.

Also worth mentioning, he has been playing PG, Shooting Guard, Small Forward, throughout his young career. And now he's playing PF for the first time and doing it well.

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Yea majority of my arguments were with people that literally admitted to seeing a handful of games. No joke I was an idiot just for claiming Ingram and Ball could be very good NBA players. Never been a Lakers fan but I have watched I would say 90% of Ingram and Zos games the last 2 seasons. Watched really close last season along with some Boston/Knicks as those were my 3 favorite teams to trade with. Lakers were my clear favorite before Zion. Then factoring in fits and compliments the Lakers became the front runner for me hands down. I just can’t wait to see these 2 with Zion. Ingram and Zion as our wings is so dangerous and is going to be one hell of a duo. I think Lonzo might be the biggest benefactor of Zion. Just excited to watch our young talent this season while every develops. The record this season means very little for me.

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Originally Posted by AusPel

So was cutting Wood for Kenny H still the right call?

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Was paying JJ $26M the right move? Time will tell.

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Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25

Yea majority of my arguments were with people that literally admitted to seeing a handful of games. No joke I was an idiot just for claiming Ingram and Ball could be very good NBA players.

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Lonzo will be a mediocre, replaceable player at best until he learns how to attack the paint. One reason for the struggles (when the outside shot isnt falling) is Ingram is the only player that can consistently collapse a defense.

If Curry's 6'3", unathletic self can break down a defense repeatedly, Lonzo has no excuse. Even JJ Berea gets into the paint more than Lonzo.

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Originally Posted by AusPel

So was cutting Wood for Kenny H still the right call?

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Absolutely and you know I was a huge Wood fan. Wood had a very solid game tonight it looks. This team has a much bigger need for wings then it does PF imo. Zion/Hayes/Okafor/Ingram/Melli is the future of our PF/C position so I don’t see where the minutes would come for Wood outside of injuries. Kenny is a great end of the bench player to have and right now a huge need being a wing.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

First loss of the season I've been unhappy about. What a terrible game. We went in there against a team that's equally as short handed as we are, with fewer actual NBA Players on it, and got buried. Ugly stuff.

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In your opinion what would you attribute this loss to?

I'm of the mindset that this team looks a lot different with Jrue and Zion on the floor. With that being said, the defensive rotations were really bad. I think that falls on the coaching staff not having the player personnel prepared.

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Originally Posted by luckyman

Lonzo will be a mediocre, replaceable player at best until he learns how to attack the paint. One reason for the struggles (when the outside shot isnt falling) is Ingram is the only player that can consistently collapse a defense.

If Curry's 6'3", unathletic self can break down a defense repeatedly, Lonzo has no excuse. Even JJ Berea gets into the paint more than Lonzo.

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Don’t agree with this at all. He is 21 years old! I still don’t know what people don’t get about that huge giant factor. Lonzo is already one of the better PGs at passing, rebounding, and defending in the NBA.. His weaknesses were his 3pt and FT shot along with attacking the paint. He has just made huge improvements in his 3 point shooting and in his FT from what it looks like so far. Yes he needs to be better at attacking the paint which I fully believe he will. A big reason he has stayed away from this was his inability to shoot FTs and as he improves there I think we see more aggression and success in this area. Again he is just 21 and if you change that name on the jersey his upside and potential would be talked about a little differently. He has done nothing but improve every area of his game and I don’t see why at 21 we should all the sudden think he is now near maxed out.

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Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25

Yea majority of my arguments were with people that literally admitted to seeing a handful of games. No joke I was an idiot just for claiming Ingram and Ball could be very good NBA players. Never been a Lakers fan but I have watched I would say 90% of Ingram and Zos games the last 2 seasons. Watched really close last season along with some Boston/Knicks as those were my 3 favorite teams to trade with. Lakers were my clear favorite before Zion. Then factoring in fits and compliments the Lakers became the front runner for me hands down. I just can’t wait to see these 2 with Zion. Ingram and Zion as our wings is so dangerous and is going to be one hell of a duo. I think Lonzo might be the biggest benefactor of Zion. Just excited to watch our young talent this season while every develops. The record this season means very little for me.

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Couldn't agree more, Zo is basically a quarterback. If he doesn't have receivers it limits him. Also affects his level of aggression.

@Luckyman I wan't to disagree with you but you're right. Until Zo learns to drive and finish he's going to be wildly inconsistent as far as production is concerned.

I just find it funny how bad people over react. Last year 4-0 and this season 0-4.. We could so easily be 3-1 and just say 2-2 with 1 play going differently. This is without Zion arguably our best player and Jrue now missing his 2nd game. A few points of difference and this board would be talking how we might be the #3 seed with a chance at the Finals once Zion returns and blah blah.. Yet now the earth has caved in over our record.

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Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25

I just find it funny how bad people over react. Last year 4-0 and this season 0-4.. We could so easily be 3-1 and just say 2-2 with 1 play going differently. This is without Zion arguably our best player and Jrue now missing his 2nd game. A few points of difference and this board would be talking how we might be the #3 seed with a chance at the Finals once Zion returns and blah blah.. Yet now the earth has caved in over our record.

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Mid-season.. watch out for NAW, and Jaxson. Those two are going to be big for us if they get the minutes. Couple that with Jrue, and Zion, I still expect this team to be able to possibly get a playoff spot. All depends on how soon we can get Jrue and Zion back.

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Originally Posted by Nichols

Couldn't agree more, Zo is basically a quarterback. If he doesn't have receivers it limits him. Also affects his level of aggression.

@Luckyman I wan't to disagree with you but you're right. Until Zo learns to drive and finish he's going to be wildly inconsistent as far as production is concerned.

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I completely agree he will be inconsistent and not as good until he improves here which is obvious. This process developing his ability to attack the rim is multiple things. His ability to pull up a mid range shot and hit his FTs.. These were big areas of his off season work to improve and that part of his game just isn’t where he wants it to be yet obviously. Even if he just becomes average attacking the rim his overall game is much more then just a mediocre player. Much of our rim attacking has been lost with Zion and Jrue..

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Originally Posted by Nichols

Mid-season.. watch out for NAW, and Jaxson. Those two are going to be big for us if they get the minutes. Couple that with Jrue, and Zion, I still expect this team to be able to possibly get a playoff spot. All depends on how soon we can get Jrue and Zion back.

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Yes this isn’t over by any means. As much as I would love to make the playoffs that really is one of our last worries on this season. NAW and JAX are here for the next decade so no rush to have them carry a team as rookies. JAX and NAW are both going to be stars but JAX is a rare talent. I feel like we lost nothing with AD other then ADs prime years when I see what we have with JAX. He has everything AD had and looks that good but I think he will actually be an even better compliment to Zion. We don’t need to worry taking touches away from Zion feeding JAX 20 shots a game when his buckets just come with the flow of the game. Just like AD he impacts the game without touching the ball.

I feel you, main thing is I just want them to get minutes. I think Jax is proving he deserves them.

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Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25

Don’t agree with this at all. He is 21 years old! I still don’t know what people don’t get about that huge giant factor. Lonzo is already one of the better PGs at passing, rebounding, and defending in the NBA.. His weaknesses were his 3pt and FT shot along with attacking the paint. He has just made huge improvements in his 3 point shooting and in his FT from what it looks like so far. Yes he needs to be better at attacking the paint which I fully believe he will. A big reason he has stayed away from this was his inability to shoot FTs and as he improves there I think we see more aggression and success in this area. Again he is just 21 and if you change that name on the jersey his upside and potential would be talked about a little differently. He has done nothing but improve every area of his game and I don’t see why at 21 we should all the sudden think he is now near maxed out.

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His age is not excuse for having no drive skills. Thats usually the first thing good young guards can do best.

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Originally Posted by UNO Gracias

Was paying JJ $26M the right move? Time will tell.

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Depends what Pels get for him in a trade.

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Originally Posted by luckyman

His age is not excuse for having no drive skills. Thats usually the first thing good young guards can do best.

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Exactly. If you can't drive well by age 22 then you're never going to be able to. His ceiling is really limited because of this

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Originally Posted by luckyman

His age is not excuse for having no drive skills. Thats usually the first thing good young guards can do best.

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Also: he's not 21.

Sounds petty, but it's just a factual inaccuracy. He's not 21.

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Originally Posted by Nichols

In your opinion what would you attribute this loss to?

I'm of the mindset that this team looks a lot different with Jrue and Zion on the floor. With that being said, the defensive rotations were really bad. I think that falls on the coaching staff not having the player personnel prepared.

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Yeah, part of it is just missing guys. We were, essentially, missing three starters tonight. I know that Zion hasn't actually played a game yet, but he's a starter the minute he comes back, so he counts imo.

That's no reason for the lack of defensive effort. The team as a whole looked like it just couldn't really be bothered for most of the game, and that's not really acceptable at any point in the year but especially right at the beginning, at home, when you're fighting for your first win against a very beatable team. That's when you should be scratching and clawing for every possession, because you need it.

Offense... well, other people have said it here and on twitter. We don't look like we know how to get JJ good looks. Part of that is missing guys with real gravity like Jrue, and Zion, so I'm not too concerned about that at this junction. But yeah, as much as some people might not want to admit it, Lonzo is having real trouble breaking down a defense. This inability to really drive, get to the hoop, draw defense and warp passing angles is something I criticised him for before we traded for him, since it actually limits his playmaking from ''creating'' shots, to simply being exceptional at ''finding'' shots. That's still a useful skill to have, but it isn't enough on it's own.

In fact, here's Lonzo's shot chart from tonight.

Lonzo Ball shot chart: 28th vs Golden State pic.twitter.com/YnxuWQ5HU2

— Pelicanidae (@Pelicanidae1) October 29, 2019

Lonzo took more shots from 25 feet or further than he did at the rim. That's just really not good. He took a 19 foot pull up when his primary defender was Damion Lee. That's just... really not good enough, frankly.

That's just one example of a player who really just wasn't good enough tonight.

In fact, here's Lonzo's shot chart through all of the first 4 games combined:

Lonzo Ball shot chart games 1-4 pic.twitter.com/Zi4QhDKc2V

— Pelicanidae (@Pelicanidae1) October 29, 2019

8 total shots within 10 feet of the basket, in 4 games. So he's averaging 2 shots within 10 feet of the rim per game.

By contrast, he has taken 25 shots from at least 25 feet. 6 a game, on average.

Lonzo Ball is currently shooting 3x more shots from 25 feet than at the rim.

That's bad.

I wonder if we undervalued Favors' defensive presence in the first three games.

Yea I agree for the most part. I think Ball is just going to be one of those players that needs thoroughbreds around him. He's like high octane fuel for a race engine.

Is E'Twaun Moore hurt too or has he just disappeared?

Ja Morant is impressive so far.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Also: he's not 21.

Sounds petty, but it's just a factual inaccuracy. He's not 21.

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LoL about as petty and dumb as your prediction of Ingram being trash and below average lol.. Sorry forgot Lonzo had his birthday 2 days ago.. He’s 22 guys..

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Originally Posted by luckyman

His age is not excuse for having no drive skills. Thats usually the first thing good young guards can do best.

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He does have the skills to drive.. I pointed out reasons why he doesn’t in which people in his camp have even talked about. I just find it funny he can’t even be mediocre player do to not being a good driver to the basket. Yet Patrick Beverly can be a starting PG and big piece to a championship contending team.. Why? Or because he can drive and this guy does half the stuff Lonzo does.. Again it’s less about Lonzos ability and potential around the rim but more about not having that in his current arsenal as a comfort. He has been working on his mid range game just as hard as the 3pt which in turn will make it easier for him at the rim as well.

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Originally Posted by AusPel

Exactly. If you can't drive well by age 22 then you're never going to be able to. His ceiling is really limited because of this

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I can literally give you player after player making this simply untrue. It’s absolutely something a 22 year old guard can improve on entering just year 3 in the NBA after being a 1 and done. Do people follow basketball and all of the players in the NBA and see where they actually progressed from? Or just see them at their peak and pretended it has been since day 1? But yea I’ll take that advice that 22 year old guards don’t improve improve around the rim.

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Originally Posted by Nichols

Yea I agree for the most part. I think Ball is just going to be one of those players that needs thoroughbreds around him. He's like high octane fuel for a race engine.

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Yes I agree and there is nothing wrong with that. This team needs a player like him. We don’t need some 20+ ppg superstar PG that is great in every area of his game. It’s one nitpick after the other. First it was if he only improves his shooting which he has done this offseason and will continue to get better. Look at who we are surrounding this kid with.. We need him to do what he does which is he an elite defender, rebound, push the pace, hit open 3s, and make his FTs while being the very gifted passer he is. We have maybe one of the best st getting to the rim ever in Zion, Ingram can take anyone at anytime, and we have another young guard in NAW to take Jrues place eventually who is great at attacking the rim. Lonzo can be our better version of a Rondo or Beverly that every team needs and I’m fine with that. If he was doing all the things people are asking off a 22 year old kid he would be one of the best PGs in the NBA haha.

Jaxson Hayes shot chart: 28th vs Warriors pic.twitter.com/vY98aCz605

— Pelicanidae (@Pelicanidae1) October 29, 2019

Just wanna give Jax a shoutout too here. Obviously we were playing a team that wasn't exactly packed with size and quality defensive bigs, but for someone to come out in their debut and miss only 1 real shot (his other miss was the 60 foot hail Mary at the halftime buzzer) for 19 points is pretty cool.

Obviously he has a way to go in terms of rebounding and defense in space, but still, promising signs.

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Originally Posted by msusousaphone

I wonder if we undervalued Favors' defensive presence in the first three games.

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Favors is solid and his on ball defense is good.He's not much of a rim protector and neither is Okafor but this kid Hayes definitely is.I would actually put Hayes above Okafor in the rotation he has a real presence on both sides of the court.He's a perfect pick&roll lob guy.Very similar to Javale McGee and Clint Capella Favors and Okafor just don't have the athleticism to do it.Play the kid and let him develop.

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Originally Posted by Wecandothis

Favors is solid and his on ball defense is good.He's not much of a rim protector and neither is Okafor but this kid Hayes definitely is.I would actually put Hayes above Okafor in the rotation he has a real presence on both sides of the court.He's a perfect pick&roll lob guy.Very similar to Javale McGee and Clint Capella Favors and Okafor just don't have the athleticism to do it.Play the kid and let him develop.

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:thumbup:

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Originally Posted by Wecandothis

Favors is solid and his on ball defense is good.He's not much of a rim protector and neither is Okafor but this kid Hayes definitely is.I would actually put Hayes above Okafor in the rotation he has a real presence on both sides of the court.He's a perfect pick&roll lob guy.Very similar to Javale McGee and Clint Capella Favors and Okafor just don't have the athleticism to do it.Play the kid and let him develop.

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Favors has debatably been a top 5 rim protector in the NBA for the last 3 or 4 years lol

Not just that, but we were getting absolutely annihilated by cuts and not rotating.....or just falling asleep. Yes, Zion and Jrue would have stymied that a bit but I think we're also underrating Favors there, too, as well as his rim protection.

Even missing as much as they are, the Warriors were the absolute worst matchup we could have drawn missing those pieces of our D. Their play style perfectly aligned against what we were lacking. Add on top of that the extra PEDs they were juiced up on after being embarrassed the game ebfore and it was a hindsight recipe for disaster.

Regarding Ball. The narrative before the season was "he sucks, he can't shoot" over and over and over, again, ad nauseam. The kid who is only 21 years and 367 days old (that's a statistical fact) works hard on his shot and it is noticeably improved. So the narrative changes to "he can't drive". That's just to fit an agenda. It's also a bit wrong. He has the skills to drive...he drives and dishes out extremely well. We want him to learn to drive and score. That is teachable. The foundation is there with the driving skills he just needs to accommodate that knowledge into layups.....but holy cow...let the kid grow. He worked on shooting this offseason, he can work on driving and scoring later.

Because even though he is only 21 years and 367 days old, we can all admit that something ia extremely wrong with the development at the Lakers. We can all agree on that. So development-wise he should be considered 21.