Best case lottery scenario (outside of Pels winning #1)...
Lakers #1
Knicks #2
Kings #3 (would convey to Boston)
Hawks #4
That gives the Pels the maximum leverage to get absolutely everything they could want.
Well since we have objections to Ingram & Tatum(Boston players) what other team could
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03-05-2019, 02:32 PMNMThreeMVP
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03-05-2019, 02:45 PMEman5805Agreed. I really, really like Mitchell Robinson too. And not just because of nepotism.Quote:
Originally Posted by da ThRONe
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03-05-2019, 02:51 PMPelicanidaeEveryone aboard the Mitchell Robinson train!Quote:
Originally Posted by Eman5805
I agree. Seen some people compare his upside to being Rudy Gobert, and while I see that, he's also much more of an athlete than Gobert. -
03-05-2019, 02:55 PMEman5805Not sure what's best case scenario about the Lakers getting Zion. From that standpoint, they can just keep what they have and present a bigger challenge to our own team's hopeful ascension.Quote:
Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP
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03-05-2019, 02:57 PMPelicans78But he's not nearly as skilled or good. Gobert is an elite center.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
Robinson can't stay on the floor because he fouls too much. Still I like him as a prospect and someone who can build into a very competent defensive center. -
03-05-2019, 02:57 PMMythrolDon't you understand? While the Knicks would hardly be willing to trade AD for Zion, the Lakers would. This logic is fun...Quote:
Originally Posted by Eman5805
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03-05-2019, 02:57 PMPelicanidae
Yeah, don't really see why you'd want LA getting the #1 pick at all.
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03-05-2019, 03:05 PMPelicanidaeRemember that Gobert didn't even enter the league until he was 21. Robinson won't even be 21 for another 5 weeks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelicans78
Gobert also fouls a lot too, by the way. Not nearly as much as Robinson, god no, but he does. He averages 2.9 fouls per game, which is third most among C/Fs who have played at least 1500 minutes this season. He's also 7th in total fouls by C/Fs this season too. And he used to be worse at it, tying for 6th most fouls in the league, among all players, during the 2016-17 season.
I agree that Gobert is better than Robinson, sure. He is more physically limited, but he has focus and discipline, and he plays his role to perfection, while Robinson can still be a little jumpy and play outside of himself at times. But Gobert is 26 years old, and has been under a really good coach for multiple seasons now. Robinson is 20, plays for the Knicks, and went 36th in the draft. He has time to reach Gobert's level. -
03-05-2019, 03:35 PMNMThreeMVPQuote:
Originally Posted by Eman5805
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
I honestly hate yall. Seriously. I love ya. But I hate you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mythrol
The reason I posted an entire top 4 order, is because it's the order that creates the leverage. And each team's situation is unique.
Lebron has already demonstrated he will trade away a #1 overall pick to win now. He's older than both Durant and Kyrie. And he's likely more desperate than both to add to his legacy after this year. The Championship pressure is combustible in Los Angeles right now. New York will be thrilled to get KD and Kyrie, and host playoff games again. They are entirely different circumstances.
With the Lakers able to offer Zion/Ingram/Ball/Kuz ...everyone else has to go elevate their offers. And with NYK, BOS, ATL right behind the Lakers in the draft order, it would be hard for them to not include Zion. Don't want to inlude Zion --- we'll do a deal with Knicks or Celtics and happily take Ja Morant or RJ.
Celtics have to offer Tatum, Brown, and all the picks if they still want to play. And the Pels would still walk away with one of the top tier guys in the draft.
Knicks - more likely to offer the 2nd pick that the 1st, IMO - would have to offer all their young guys, future NYK picks, and those Dallas picks.
Hawks, if they were interested, would have to offer Collins, Young, Prince and #4 to beat those offers. They couldn't pull anything off the table and be competitive with the teams ahead of them.
The Kings pick doesn't convey if it lands at #1.
The Clippers are likely making the Playoffs, so they can't win the lottery
I think the Hawks wouldn't consider a trade of the pick if it lands at #1. They would just continue their youth movement.
...the only argument I'll accept for a non Pelicans team winning the lottery that might create more leverage for the Pels than what I proposed is the Heat. But that's just a shot in the dark and a hope that Riley would trade it for AD and add two more max guys in 2020. -
03-05-2019, 03:44 PMGuardianAngel25Yea I completely agree. The Lakers really can become the clear front runner for me depending on where their draft pick lands. The Knicks trade isn’t really a consideration for me unless it’s a top 2 pick where we can grab Zion or RJ. With Ingram he will have one season here but I think he has he time last year and this year to show the player he can become. If the way he is playing since the all star break is any indication then that is a star player no doubt. This isn’t the first time he has put together games like this either. The same people against this stretch are the same that credit one player for a little playoff stretch while the other never had the chance. Again Ingram at age 20-21 years old has put together seasons that no SF in the NBA has not named Lebron/Durant..Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelicans78
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03-05-2019, 03:45 PMPelicanidaeI'm sorry, this just seems like nonsense to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP
Maybe I'm just giving Magic Johnson more credit than he deserves, but there is no way, if I'm the Lakers GM, that I trade away Zion + Ingram + Ball + Kuzma for AD. Not a chance, at all. Just Zion? Maybe. But then NY can offer more with a Zion + DSJ + Robinson package, making it preferable for them to get the pick. Just Ingram/Ball/Kuzma? Sure, that would be debatable. Zion + Those guys? Not a hope in hell.
The fact that Lebron is older than Kyrie and KD is precisely why I wouldn't make that trade. Based on what he's shown this season, I don't have any reason to suspect that he can carry a team in the West into the playoffs, and there's no reason to think his game will get better from here on out. Selling out what could easily be a complete rebuild, combined with the hype-job that Zion would bring, and the ability to use Lebron as a 'mentor' (a role he would be forced into because he signed long term) would be pretty much a pre-packaged bombshell of a rebuild.
Lebron has already proved that he'll trade away a number one pick, sure, but firstly: He's not the Lakers GM, so what he would do isn't actually the most important thing, and secondly: he would trade away Andrew Wiggins. The difference between Andrew Wiggins and Zion Williamson is HUGE. One was good, the other has league-history making potential.
Now, I'm not saying it's IMPOSSIBLE for you to be right. Maybe you're right, and Magic is a bigger idiot than I think and he's willing to throw literally unlimited assets at AD.
But if I'm Magic, getting Zion and being 90% sure that I only need to wait one year for AD to come on over? I'm pulling all my offers and just sitting tight. Yes, it wastes a year of Lebron, and I'm not willing to waste that year if all I get out of it is AD+Ingram staying. But if It's AD+Ingram staying + Zion? Then I can sit and wait. I can be patient for that. -
03-05-2019, 03:50 PMGuardianAngel25I was really upset when we didn’t draft him. Did not understand that at all. Watching the kid just workout became clear he was worth taking a flyer on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eman5805
Funny a case is being made for Robinson because he I just 20 and is on a bad team like the Knicks. Yet Ingram in the same scenario putting numbers only seen by the 2 best players in the NBA is discredited.. hmm.. -
03-05-2019, 03:56 PMEman5805
I get that their impetus is to win now and not wait on Zion. But I also feel the temptation to not offer Zion is higher now. Just feels like the Lakers MO would be to offer what they had before and try to put AD with Zion and LeBron.
My assumption is for people to behave in according to their own interests in this situation. I can buy that Ainge would trade Tatum to us because he figures AD for anyone is worth it. But if the Celtics had Zion, I doubt Zion is seen as a moveable asset on that particular squad.
I only see hte Knicks doing a Zion trade because it's an avenue to getting Kyrie and Durant to come too. A fair trade from that perspective. -
03-05-2019, 03:58 PMPelicanidaeIf Mitchell Robinson was the centrepiece of the Knicks trade, I'd be saying he's not good enough too. Totally different.Quote:
Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25
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03-05-2019, 04:00 PMGuardianAngel25LoL arguing with this is just trying to win some prize. I absolutely think the Lakers would package Zion in a second and really have no choice with Lebrons window. We have all of the leverage here especially with the Lakers not being the only show in town. They know how competitive the offers are and to get AD the will have to come up with just that. Zion and Ingram is the starting point for AD. Does anybody really think they will then be hung up on over Kuz as AD gets sent to the Knicks or Celtics? I don’t know if they attach a bunch of 1st round picks on top of that but Zion, Ingram, and Kuz is what it will take if that’s where their pick lands. I will bet they are praying for that 1st pick knowing it makes them the front runner in a mega deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP
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03-05-2019, 04:03 PMGuardianAngel25Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
Ok so who is the centerpiece? The draft pick? It’s not totally different either. It’s you talking up Mitchell Robinson as someone who can be an all star caliber big man because of his age, talent, and crap situation he’s put in. Which I agree and think he can be a more offensive Deandre Jordan. While ignoring the same exact things for another player who happens to be producing at a level only 2 HOFs have played better then this early on. -
03-05-2019, 04:06 PM6warddude
lebron missing the playoffs this season and the lakers missing the playoffs 6 in a row........the lakers would ship zion and half the team to us for AD to have him in 2019....
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03-05-2019, 04:12 PMPelicanidaeI cannot believe I have to explain this.Quote:
Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25
The centrepiece of the proposed Knicks trade is their pick. The Knicks trade is only the most desirable one if they get the #1 pick. The #2 pick still has them in the discussion, but they are not the clear favourites without the #1 pick. The #1 pick means Zion Williamson. Zion Williamson is therefore the centrepiece of the Knicks trade that has been proposed and is the one that is in the minds of most people talking about the Knicks. Zion Williamson has not played in the NBA, so there is obviously a factor of risk: maybe he will bust, maybe he will not. But that risk is a personal evaluation: you must decide whether you think it's worth it or not. I think it is, maybe you disagree. Mitchell Robinson is only an extra, a side-dish, a tag-along who sweetens the deal. In that scenario, he doesn't have to be fantastic, because he is not the primary centrepiece of the trade, he is just a bonus.
Brandon Ingram is the centrepiece of the potential Laker's trade (outside of the very, very, very, very unlikely potential that they jump up into high draft position). Therefore he gets criticised more than Robinson, because if Robinson sucks in the long run then it doesn't matter: how good he turns out to be is incidental, not instrumental to the quality of the trade. He is a bonus if he works out, and if he doesn't it's not a huge deal. Ingram, on the other hand, is required to work out on a very high level in order for the trade to be a good one. That is why he has to live up to a higher standard: he plays a higher position in the trade, and will require more money to keep long term.
That is why Mitchell Robinson gets some minor critique, but is largely just a potentially good player, whereas Ingram gets large critique despite also having potential (which I have admitted about 40 times but you don't seem to ever read those parts, weirdly enough). The scale is completely different. -
03-05-2019, 04:12 PMGuardianAngel25They really wouldn’t have a choice. Not to mention Lebron and Zion are not the best fit.Quote:
Originally Posted by 6warddude
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03-05-2019, 04:18 PMGuardianAngel25
LoL that makes no sense. Because Robinson isn’t the centerpiece his game gets critiqued less while the same positives pointed out for Robinson is ignored for Ingram. When did I ever say you didn’t think Ingram had potential? You claim he is trash now and will be trash later. I can pull up multiple post of him being ripped by you and not mentioning anything of potential. Again doesn’t make any sense to not critique Robinson the same as anyone else because the Knicks might get Zion..
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03-05-2019, 04:30 PMPelicanidaeWhen the Warriors lose a game, who is the first person you look at and criticise? I'm willing to bet it's Curry, maybe Durant, possibly Klay. It's never going to be Damian Jones or Kevon Looney. Why? Because you know that those guys, while they can have a good game or a bad game, are not the make-or-break players for that team.Quote:
Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25
That is why when discussion players as trade material, Ingram gets more critique than Robinson. Robinson is not a make-or-break part of the trade with NY. Ingram is a make-or-break piece for LA. This is like, basically priority right here.
As for the idea that I've never once mentioned anything to do with potential for Ingram:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
There's two from conversations I had with you personally.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
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03-05-2019, 04:41 PMGuardianAngel25
LoL you are pulling up 2 very recent posts after I basically proved your whole argument against Ingram absurd. Which then resulted in me being an idiot becuse I simply liked Ingram as much as I did Tatum. I don’t really see anywhere you talk about his potential outside of saying he could do this or that to then take a subtle shot. If you are really trying to know act like you never said anything then that’s just ridiculous. Literally paragraph after paragraph. I see you are already back tracking as you know time is not on your side in this argument. Go read some of the conversation we had just a day ago.. I’ll resurface your comments regarding Ingram when the time is right..
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03-05-2019, 04:47 PMGuardianAngel25
Can anybody find me a SF going forward for our team that is better then Ingram and not older then 27 y/o? Not named Tatum. Giannis who is a PF doesn’t count and if he does is that it?
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03-05-2019, 04:49 PMPelicanidaeYou're absolutely insufferable.Quote:
Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25
You literally said I don't mention ANYTHING of potential. Then I pull up two quotes, from this very thread, in direct response to you, which prove that you're talking out of nothing because they show me, mentioning potential. You couldn't have missed it, because they're from this thread (which we know you've been in) and have been said in response to you, and we know you read them, because you replied to them.
So either you're lying, or you messed up. Rather than admit to making a mistake, you've decided those examples don't actually count, because what about the OTHER thread?
''I'll resurface your comments regarding Ingram when the time is right...'' lol, okay Lex Luthor. -
03-05-2019, 04:56 PMTinmanYou must like swatting flies buzzing around your face !Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
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03-05-2019, 05:36 PMAUSSIE_PELICAN
It's so nice to see that Pelicanidae and GuardianAngel25 are in love.
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03-05-2019, 05:42 PMPelicanidaeNormally, I'd just take that as funny, but given that it's GA25, I feel compelled to tell you that we're sworn enemies now.Quote:
Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN
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03-05-2019, 05:54 PMTinman:eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN
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03-05-2019, 06:16 PMNMThreeMVPLuka Doncic... but we can't get him.Quote:
Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25
Tobias is techincally 26 and a free agent.
I like OG Anunoby, but he's not better than Ingram. -
03-05-2019, 06:22 PMPelicanidaeI think there's a good argument that Pascal Siakam has been better than Ingram overall for this year, but there is room for debate in that one. If you count Ben Simmons as a forward (I do) then he's better than Ingram.Quote:
Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP
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03-05-2019, 06:24 PMTinmanNo debate for me. Siakam.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
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03-05-2019, 06:29 PM13 - 3
GuardianAngel has some really good points. Not everyone sees his views but they are good points.
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03-05-2019, 06:36 PMPelicanidaeSiakam is older, though, in fairness. But just from this season, he does look a lot better. Here's the player comparison for 2018-19:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinman
Ingram: 33.8mpg, 18.3pts, 5.1rbds, 3.0 assists, 0.5stls, 0.6blks, 2.5TOs, 2.9 PFs, 49.7% fg, 33.0% 3pt%, 67.5% FT%, -8 Net RTG, 13.6 PER, 2.1 WS, 0.057 WS/48, -0.4 VORP
Siakam: 31.9mpg, 16.3pts, 7rbds, 2.9asts, 1.0stls, 0.7blks, 1.8TOs, 3.0 PFs, 55% fg, 36.9% 3pt%, 78% FT%, +14 Net RTG, 7.2 WS, 0.173 WS/48, 2.8 VORP
Yep, it's pretty clear who's had the better season, individually. -
03-05-2019, 06:45 PMAUSSIE_PELICANSiakam is technically a PF or tweener.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
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03-05-2019, 06:50 PMPelicanidaeI just looked up what position he spents most of his time at, and you're right. He does play more PF than SF, although he does play in a lot of positionless lineups.Quote:
Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN
As a side note, looking at the Raptor's list of lineups, it reminds me of Kawhi Leonard. He's 27 exactly, so does he count? :hihi: -
03-05-2019, 06:57 PMMythrol
I don't think anyone would argue that SF is the absolute thinnest position in the entire league. That's the entire reason Solomon Hill got paid what he did. It doesn't shock me that an extremely short list to begin with, when limited with even more stipulations like age would create a single digit list.
Exactly what is the point of trying to name specific SFs better than Ingram under the age of 27? -
03-05-2019, 07:00 PMTinmanI had no idea that Ingram's FT shooting was such tripe. Wow. For an ISO guy, that's NOT good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
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03-05-2019, 07:03 PMPelicanidaeBecause if you set up the requirements to be extremely tailored, then you can create an artificial impression.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mythrol
If I wanted to argue, for example, that Jrue Holiday was the best guard in the league, it would be a real challenge. But if I say best two way, pass first guard in the league under the age of 30, suddenly he's the name that's right on top.
If you cut off the age at 27, that's not just some random age. That's high enough that it looks kinda reasonable at first, but then you check and realise it's JUST young enough that Kawhi Leonard, Paul George, and Jimmy Butler are disqualified.
That's not to mention that he's just randomly decided Giannis doesn't count either. -
03-05-2019, 07:03 PMPelicanidaeYeah he's not a good FT shooter at all. Rancid from the stripe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinman
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03-05-2019, 11:28 PMGuardianAngel25Luca is a SG. He plays SF at times but he’s not a SF. Yea Tobias is a good one and I like him a lot. He was a tweener early on but has really turned himself into a very good SF.Quote:
Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP
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03-05-2019, 11:30 PMGuardianAngel25Uhh Siakam is not a SF. He’s a 24 year old PF who is finally putting together a good season. Ingram at age 20 outperformed him as well just didn’t benefit by being on one of the best teams in the NBA. How is Simmons a SF in your eyes when he literally never plays the position. He’s been a PG since he came into the NBA. Height does not make someone a SF. I guess Magic Johnson was a SF as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
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03-05-2019, 11:38 PMGuardianAngel25I specifically mentioned Giannis counts if you consider him a SF which he is not. Giannis is a PF who plays the PG position offensively. So he’s not as good as the best player in the NBA my bad. LoL reaching big time trying to compare this in any way with that Holiday analogy. Jrue is arguably the best 2 way guard under 30 and that’s pretty awesome. Still a terrible comparison. Pretty simple the point I am making is Ingram is showing he is the best young SF in the NBA right now and that isn’t changing anytime soon. You can’t prove me wrong after all of the ridiculous arguments against him you made so now you have to figure out a way to be right as usual. I know it hurts you can’t come up with anything so you have to start pulling from other positions lol. Even taking all of those SFs over 27 years old you can’t find one not named Lebron or Durant who played as well as Ingram at age 20-21 y/o not even Giannis. Don’t know how you can even argue that which really you can’t other then trying to dismiss it. Fine with me! Lex Luther will return with a vengeance next season!Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
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03-05-2019, 11:46 PMPelicanidaeUhhh, we've already been over Siakam. Well done for arriving late to the thread, not reading any of it, and just assuming you knew the pace of the conversation by instinct. Takes a lot of self-confidence to do that, congrats.Quote:
Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25
Simmons is a SF in my eyes because his three most commonly played-in lineups include two other guards, and he guards other forwards.
You see, part of the problem is that you have a VERY rigid definition of positions here, in a league which is increasingly becoming positionless.
Take Giannis for example. You say Giannis is a PF who sometimes plays PG offensively. He's played PF for 40% of his career minutes, so that makes some sense, but he's played SF for 30% of his career minutes too, and SG for 17% of them. How come 40% of his career minutes is enough for you to say he's a PF, but 30% isn't even worth mentioning?
Well, that's cause in today's NBA, players shift positions a LOT. So you could easily argue that Simmons plays PG on offense but SF on defense, which I would agree with probably. That's why in all-star slots, and all-nba slots, nobody is the first team all-nba Small Forward. There's guards, and there's forwards. And I guess sometimes there's centers, but in the all-star that isn't even there formally anymore either. -
03-05-2019, 11:47 PMGuardianAngel25Finally an actual legit argument against him. I’m sure it not fathomable for you that a 21 year old kid can improve from the FT line. Or maybe not fathomable for just Ingram in this case. He’s not a finished product obviously. Has a lot of room to improve in this area and if he doesn’t then that’s a problem but not some indication of the player he is or will be as it isn’t with someone like Ben Simmons. Lebron hasn’t been much better in his career either and that’s the best SF in NBA history. I’ll put up $ he’s at 75% from the line next season.. any real takers?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinman
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03-05-2019, 11:55 PMGuardianAngel25LoL so by replying to you statement ok Sikam that you were wrong the only defense is that I was late and assuming the pace of the convo!? Lmao it’s ok to be wrong sometimes.. So the NBA is positionless yet you are sitting here arguing position? Jimmy Butler is a SF, Tobias Harris is a SF, James Ennis a SF, Jonathan Simmons a SF.. So please tell me where Simmons has time at the SF position. He simply doesn’t play it and similar to Giannis he runs the point offensively while mostly guarding PFs and at times the PG. If you ever watched him maybe you would know this and not need to go look some stat up and vaguely say he guards forwards.. yes most of the time that is PF. Sure Giannis doesn’t strictly guard PFs and is often matched up on guards because of that’s where he plays. Middleton and Snell are the SFs on that team and they play it offensively and defensively. The league is not positionless by the way so yes these guys absolutely have positions. Just cause it doesn’t match up with your argument means nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
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03-06-2019, 12:04 AMPelicanidaeDude, I can't argue you with you if you still think the NBA has strict positions, all the time, in 2019. You might as well be arguing about phlogiston, miasma theories of disease, the eternal ether, and the static universe.Quote:
Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25
Edit: deleted the extra stuff because honestly, it will jsut make you more likely to respond and I cannot be bothered with someone who argues in such bad faith all the time. It's like you're arguing to win, rather than arguing to find the truth, and frankly it's just pathetic. -
03-06-2019, 12:14 AMGuardianAngel25Never said the NBA has “strict” positions all the time. More twisting from you as usual to fit your argument lol. I’m saying the NBA isn’t positionless which you are arguing and that’s a little ridiculous. Because some players have the ability to play across the board is the exception not the rule. The NBA has positions and always will be. This is such a poor argument to try and bring in its positionless because it doesn’t happen to fit your argument. Since you can’t find a SF it now becomes positionless. LoL I’m arguing in bad faith!? What are you talking about? You are literally coming up with the most ridiculous stuff to be right while I have simply argued Ingram is a good player. You have reached for anything and everything just to argue and be right. I’m giving an opinion not speaking like everything I say is scripture and anyone who disagrees is an idiot. Get over yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
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03-06-2019, 12:20 AMPelicanidaeExcept I didn't say the NBA ''is'' positionless, did I? At all, anywhere. I said the league is ''increasingly becoming'' more positionless. Which is true, and nobody can argue that.Quote:
Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25
There are MULTIPLE people, listed at the SF, who are better than Ingram this season. Several of them have been named. When they were listed, you turned it around so that you weren't looking for players better than Ingram, no, now you want players who were better than Ingram when they were 20. Which is obviously a completely different question: a different question that conveniently allows you to ignore all of the people who have named people who met the first question, and proved you wrong.
And no, I didn't say that it's positionless because I can't find a SF. Again: multiple Small Forwards better than Ingram have been listed over the last page and a half of this thread, but multiple different people. I said it's INCREASINGLY BECOMING positionless, and that therefore it is hard to find many players at all who play exclusively SF because usually players shift between positions, and therefore some players that play SF on one side of the ball may not play it on the other, or they do split-duties, or they start SF but move to other positions etc, so if you are asking for someone who is a pure small forward, you won't find one, because not even INGRAM is a pure small forward! -
03-06-2019, 12:27 AMGuardianAngel25
This guy is exhausting. Not even reading more of the same nonsense over and over. Some people don’t take being wrong very well..
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03-06-2019, 12:31 AMPelicanidae:hihi: Well done for actually making me laugh out loud.Quote:
Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25