Pelicans underwhelmed by Lakers' initial offers for Anthony Davis

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

To be fair... those young guys have been playing for a dumpster fire franchise and have been a part of trade speculation for 2 year. Not quite an ideal situation. Ingram and Ball are talented and need to be in better situations. Zubac has flashed potential.

Kuzma and Hart are the two who Lakers fans have grossly inflated perceptions of! Those dudes aren't any more useful than Frank and Kenrich.

But it's really the Lakers picks that deflate the value of their trade package. Those picks aren't as valuable as BOS/NYK

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Are you suggesting that our young guys have not had just as much if not more adversity as these Laker boys?

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

To be fair... those young guys have been playing for a dumpster fire franchise and have been a part of trade speculation for 2 year. Not quite an ideal situation. Ingram and Ball are talented and need to be in better situations. Zubac has flashed potential.

Kuzma and Hart are the two who Lakers fans have grossly inflated perceptions of! Those dudes aren't any more useful than Frank and Kenrich.

But it's really the Lakers picks that deflate the value of their trade package. Those picks aren't as valuable as BOS/NYK

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With all due respect, I then posted their stats in comparison to our young guys.

Diallo isn't an NBA player, flat out. Okafor has been blackballed from the NBA for two years and has been shipped around like leftovers. Kenrich Williams is a 2 way contract rookie, and Frank Jackson is like 35 games back from breaking his foot and not playing in a year.

The ''not quite an ideal situation'' thing doesn't really work when you're underperforming in comparison to Jahlil Okafor, Kenrich Williams, Frank Jackson, and Cheick Diallo.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

With all due respect, I then posted their stats in comparison to our young guys.

Diallo isn't an NBA player, flat out. Okafor has been blackballed from the NBA for two years and has been shipped around like leftovers. Kenrich Williams is a 2 way contract rookie, and Frank Jackson is like 35 games back from breaking his foot and not playing in a year.

The ''not quite an ideal situation'' thing doesn't really work when you're underperforming in comparison to Jahlil Okafor, Kenrich Williams, Frank Jackson, and Cheick Diallo.

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Dude, you threw out a 1 game comparison!

huh?

Ingram is averaging 17/5 and has shown he's capable of going for 30+ in big games. If you watched Jayson Kidd play, Ball still looks like Jason Kidd with a better shot than Jason had at this age.

Kuzma and Hart are no better than Frank and Kenrich, but certainly you can't really make the case in such small sample sizes that Frank and Kenrich are better. I was making the case that it's at best a wash, yet Lakers fans would have you think Kuzma/Hart are future studs, and Pels fans are starting to sound just as crazy about Frank and Kenrich. Don't get me wrong, I'm thrilled about Frank and Kenrich, but it's small sample size stuff at this point. None of those 4 are the kind of player you should expect in a credible package for Anthony Davis is the only point I was trying to make.

But Ingram and Ball are real players.

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

Dude, you threw out a 1 game comparison!

huh?

Ingram is averaging 17/5 and has shown he's capable of going for 30+ in big games. If you watched Jayson Kidd play, Ball still looks like Jason Kidd with a better shot than Jason had at this age.

Kuzma and Hart are no better than Frank and Kenrich, but certainly you can't really make the case in such small sample sizes that Frank and Kenrich are better. I was making the case that it's at best a wash, yet Lakers fans would have you think Kuzma/Hart are future studs, and Pels fans are starting to sound just as crazy about Frank and Kenrich. Don't get me wrong, I'm thrilled about Frank and Kenrich, but it's small sample size stuff at this point. None of those 4 are the kind of player you should expect in a credible package for Anthony Davis is the only point I was trying to make.

But Ingram and Ball are real players.

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I made the one game comparison, partly for humorous effect. You're the one who came out afterwards like, ''HEY!THEY'VE HAD A LESS THAN IDEAL SITUATION!''

Like, if you're going to miss the point that hard and make such a myopic comment, people are allowed to tell you that your comment makes no sense, even in the limited context it was given.

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

Dude, you threw out a 1 game comparison!

huh?

Ingram is averaging 17/5 and has shown he's capable of going for 30+ in big games. If you watched Jayson Kidd play, Ball still looks like Jason Kidd with a better shot than Jason had at this age.

Kuzma and Hart are no better than Frank and Kenrich, but certainly you can't really make the case in such small sample sizes that Frank and Kenrich are better. I was making the case that it's at best a wash, yet Lakers fans would have you think Kuzma/Hart are future studs, and Pels fans are starting to sound just as crazy about Frank and Kenrich. Don't get me wrong, I'm thrilled about Frank and Kenrich, but it's small sample size stuff at this point. None of those 4 are the kind of player you should expect in a credible package for Anthony Davis is the only point I was trying to make.

But Ingram and Ball are real players.

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I don't agree on Ball, Kidd was a much better player at the same stage. Maybe not shooting wise but everywhere else.

I just don't see him being anything better than a starter on a good team, which is fine but not worth it for AD.

It just comes down to if you value the Lakers young guys more than Boston's. I like think Tatum will be the best out of them but Ingram absolutely has the potential to be the best. To me Brown has the potential to be an all star as well and is currently better than any of the Lakers players. Kuzma has a ton of potential also. I haven't seen much of Hart play so I can't speak on him.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I made the one game comparison, partly for humorous effect. You're the one who came out afterwards like, ''HEY!THEY'VE HAD A LESS THAN IDEAL SITUATION!''

Like, if you're going to miss the point that hard and make such a myopic comment, people are allowed to tell you that your comment makes no sense, even in the limited context it was given.

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Technically... I posted my comment before you edited yours to add the Pelicans stats and make it a comparison.... so... you can't really expect me to get the point when you go back and make it after the fact, right? Was I supposed to anticipate the point you were going to make before you edited your post to make it?!

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

Technically... I posted my comment before you edited yours to add the Pelicans stats and make it a comparison.... so... you can't really expect me to get the point when you go back and make it after the fact, right? Was I supposed to anticipate the point you were going to make before you edited your post to make it?!

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Not really because the original post was STILL a blatantly obvious joke, complete with the penny-drop tail end "Amazing." Separated from the main text to indicate a degree of humorous befuddlement.

But even if you were to take it seriously, you yourself made a comparison between Frank and Kenrich and some of their guys. So actually yes, you should have realised that your own comparison was redundant because of your own comment.

Let's try it this way. Let's ignore all draft positions, ignore all names, ignore everything from college, let's just look at the players that played in each game tonight.

How many people based off what they SAW would pick any of the Lakers young core over Frank or Kendrich? I'm not talking about some mythical "potential". I'm talking based off what we SAW and have seen from these players so far in the NBA.

Personally, I don't know if LAL offered Ingram and Ball for Frank and Kendrich if I'd take it. Big names are nice but at some point you have to put up or shut up.

Heck, if Ball doesn't turn a huge corner I'm not sure if they even pick up his 5th year.

↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

Personally, I don't know if LAL offered Ingram and Ball for Frank and Kendrich if I'd take it. Big names are nice but at some point you have to put up or shut up.

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That's a bit off. Ball does play excellent defense and it a facilitator. He has no offense. Ingram is a decent shooter and athletic. I would certainly take Ingram and Ball over Jackson and Williams.

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Originally Posted by P_B_&_G

I don't agree on Ball, Kidd was a much better player at the same stage. Maybe not shooting wise but everywhere else.

I just don't see him being anything better than a starter on a good team, which is fine but not worth it for AD.

It just comes down to if you value the Lakers young guys more than Boston's. I like think Tatum will be the best out of them but Ingram absolutely has the potential to be the best. To me Brown has the potential to be an all star as well and is currently better than any of the Lakers players. Kuzma has a ton of potential also. I haven't seen much of Hart play so I can't speak on him.

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Kidd was definitely a better player, but Lonzo is a year younger than Kidd was in his 2nd season, and in a much better situation to do the things that he did well. They're both good rebounders. Lonzo's shooting numbers are better. But I definitely take Kidd's situation and supporting cast over Lonzo's. Kidd got to be his best self and set up Jim Jackson and Mash as a 22 year old. Lonzo has had to learn how to play off ball (not the ideal spot for him at all) with LeBron, while being in and out of the lineup due to injuries. The situations just aren't really comparable at all, but I stand by their games being very similar.

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

That's a bit off. Ball does play excellent defense and it a facilitator. He has no offense. Ingram is a decent shooter and athletic. I would certainly take Ingram and Ball over Jackson and Williams.

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Ingram shoots 30% from 3 and averages 32% from three for his career.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

Let's try it this way. Let's ignore all draft positions, ignore all names, ignore everything from college, let's just look at the players that played in each game tonight.

How many people based off what they SAW would pick any of the Lakers young core over Frank or Kendrich? I'm not talking about some mythical "potential". I'm talking based off what we SAW and have seen from these players so far in the NBA.

Personally, I don't know if LAL offered Ingram and Ball for Frank and Kendrich if I'd take it. Big names are nice but at some point you have to put up or shut up.

Heck, if Ball doesn't turn a huge corner I'm not sure if they even pick up his 5th year.

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This is dumb.

If you watched Tatum and Brown play against the Knicks Friday night, and Frank and Kenrich play tonight, and didn't know any better... you would prefer Frank and Kenrich. That's a stupid way to evaluate talent.

There is no GM in the league, not a single one, that would prefer Kenrich and Frank to Ingram and Ball.

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

That's a bit off. Ball does play excellent defense and it a facilitator. He has no offense. Ingram is a decent shooter and athletic. I would certainly take Ingram and Ball over Jackson and Williams.

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That's why I said if Ball doesn't turn a corner he might not have his 5th year picked up. He sounds alot like Elfrid Payton to me, except worse offensively, and he didn't have his 5th year picked up.


You're still factoring in name and draft position if you'd without a doubt take Ingram and Ball over Frank and Kendrich. Nothing they've actually shown indicates they are superior especially to the extent that it'd be an easy choice.

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

This is dumb.

If you watched Tatum and Brown play against the Knicks Friday night, and Frank and Kenrich play tonight, and didn't know any better... you would prefer Frank and Kenrich. That's a stupid way to evaluate talent.

There is no GM in the league, not a single one, that would prefer Kenrich and Frank to Ingram and Ball.

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That's because you have to evaluate based off of other factora than just on the court. In a few years when their draft positions will matter less I can promise you what GMs would pick would be different than today. Anthony Bennett was trash his entire time he was in the league and he Still got 4 years because of how high he was drafted.

We aren't GMs though so we don't have to factor in all that stuff. We can JUST look at play and evaluate from there.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

As uncertainty surrounds Lakers into deadline week, several veterans -- including Michael Beasley -- had an emotionally-charged verbal exchange with head coach Luke Walton postgame tonight, league sources tell @TheAthleticNBA @WatchStadium. It stopped short of turning physical.

— Shams Charania (@ShamsCharania) February 3, 2019

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Originally Posted by kinglio21093

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

As uncertainty surrounds Lakers into deadline week, several veterans -- including Michael Beasley -- had an emotionally-charged verbal exchange with head coach Luke Walton postgame tonight, league sources tell @TheAthleticNBA @WatchStadium. It stopped short of turning physical.

— Shams Charania (@ShamsCharania) February 3, 2019

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This has been nothing short of an amazing season so far! That team is in total disarray and I love it.

Be careful what you wish for AD

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Originally Posted by P_B_&_G

This has been nothing short of an amazing season so far! That team is in total disarray and I love it.

Be careful what you wish for AD

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Wouldn't be great if the LAL franchise just totally imploded by not getting AD. Why trade him to any Western Conf. team?

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Originally Posted by WildlifeAirGrp

Wouldn't be great if the LAL franchise just totally imploded by not getting AD. Why trade him to any Western Conf. team?

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Precisely,with two eastern teams highly interested and with arguably better assets,what incentive is there to trade him within your own conference and make your own path to the finals more difficult for the next 10 years.

To use the overused phrase, its the difference between playing chase when everyone else is playing checkers. That's another reason Pops sent Kawhi to the East, he plays the long game and thinks ahead.

It's totally cool to think the LAL trade is bad compensation. Completely plausible to prefer a package from the Knicks, Celtics, and even Sixers. But once we start ranking William's and Frank above Ball and Ingram.....it's time to take a step back and see that our stance against the Lakers have made us start to throw out hyperbole.

Even if all 3 teams had the same assets I would not trade AD to the Lakers because:

1. They are in the West.
2. **** the Lakers.
3. **** LeBron.

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Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN

Even if all 3 teams had the same assets I would not trade AD to the Lakers because:

1. They are in the West.
2. **** the Lakers.
3. **** LeBron.

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:2thumb2::2thumb2::2thumb2::2thumb2:

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Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN

Even if all 3 teams had the same assets I would not trade AD to the Lakers because:

1. They are in the West.
2. **** the Lakers.
3. **** LeBron.

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What if they offer Ball, Kuzma, Hart, Ingram, Zubac (sp?), and two firsts for AD and Solo?

I don’t see why everyone is so down on a deal with the he Lakers involving Lonzo, Ingram, Kuzma, Zubac, and a 1st round pick. I don’t think the Celtics, Bulls, or Knicks have a stronger offer. The Knicks are the only ones I would consider and that all hinges on where they pick in the draft. Without the possibility of Porzingis they have a weak offer imo.

Lonzo if we can get to commit here is a better 3 point shot away from being one of the best 2 way PGs in the NBA. This kid is already a lockdown defender and can be a force offensively with natural progression and experience. Lonzo and Jrue would compliment each other so well and be an absolute terror defensively as the best defensive backcourt duo in the NBA hands down. Hate Lonzo all you want but he is a PG version of Simmons but has actually shown he is developing a 3 while being a better defender. Switch their dads along with the teams and the perspectice on Lonzo is much different. At worse he becomes a 6’6 version of Eric Bledsoe but a much more gifted passer. Ingram just absolutely torched Jimmy Butler the other night shooting 16-20. This kid is better than Tatum and no doubt in my mind has the ability to be as good as a PG13/Butler caliber SF. He is just scratching his potential at 21 years old and is someone the Lakers don’t want to give up for a reason. He is on pace to be an all star SF in a year or 2 by just adding a little bit of strength and consistency. I’ll bet on a 21 year old kid to improve in the areas he needs to a 100/100 times. He is such a gifted playmaker that Coach K has even stated can be a PG in the NBA. Kuzma imo is an ideal stretch 4 in today’s NBA. He has a ton of potential as well at just 23 years old. He has completely transformed his body and added more athleticism to his game. Being able to shadow Lebron along with getting personally trained by Kobe is priceless for this kid. He is continuing to develop his 3 point shot which is absolutely electric at times. IMO he becomes the PF version of Klay Thompson and can be a crucial core piece to a championship team. I think Lonzo and Ingram are both better players when Lebron is not on the court as they have showed. IMO he has stunted their growth as they are relegated to being spot up shooters. I do believe his presence and tutelage is priceless as well and will only help them become better players somewhere else. Zubac is a very solid developing big man to have around. No telling how good this kid becomes as he has flashed very nicely at times. At worse he is a very good bench center. Then we get the 1st round pick along with our 1st to improve our roster. With these 2 picks I target BolBol even if it cost me both to move up and grab him. This kid is going to be the next star big man and would complete our lineup.

Ball/Holiday/Ingram/Kuzma/BolBol is a group that will still be around when most of the good teams are old and likely not together anymore. I really believe this group can win an NBA championship. Adding a tripe double 2 way PG along with two 20+ ppg forwards to go with Holiday and the rest of our team can be a serious threat in a couple of years. If Holiday isn’t in our time frame then he becomes a highly valuable asset as well the add even more fire power to our team. Again these are just kids all younger then 23 who have already shown they can be stars in the league. We hit on our draft pick and our trade haul just naturally improves and develops to their projections.. You are looking at your next NBA dynasty right here in NOLA.

This would be a fun group to watch. Obviously our bench would be a little different but I just threw in what we had. These players along with Randle who we have killed it at the end of last season. You throw in our bench which is much better along with Jrue and BolBol!? Watch our!!
PG- Ball/Payton
SG- Holiday/Jackson/Moore
SF- Ingram/Miller
PF- Kuzma/Mirotic/Randle
C- BolBol/Okafor/Zubac

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

This is dumb.

If you watched Tatum and Brown play against the Knicks Friday night, and Frank and Kenrich play tonight, and didn't know any better... you would prefer Frank and Kenrich. That's a stupid way to evaluate talent.

There is no GM in the league, not a single one, that would prefer Kenrich and Frank to Ingram and Ball.

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Yea probably the most idiotic thing I have seen. LoL yea Ingram and Ball haven’t shown to be superior to Frank and Kenrich.. Ingram just went off for 36 points on 16-20 shooting against the Sixers facing Butler and Simmons all night but let’s hang out to 1 ok game from Kenrich on a night Ingram was average.. makes a ton of sense doesn’t it?! Credibility on this topic is gone as the bias to those names is not coming from us. Ball is in his 2nd year that he has barely played in and people are acting like his 5th year might not be picked up? Lol! Like I said in another post put him in Simmons place while changing their dads and there would be no issue with this kid other then people raving over his potential and how good he can be.

Kenrich is on a full contract

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Originally Posted by P_B_&_G

What if they offer Ball, Kuzma, Hart, Ingram, Zubac (sp?), and two firsts for AD and Solo?

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Are they going to add some good.players to that, at all?

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Originally Posted by msusousaphone

It's totally cool to think the LAL trade is bad compensation. Completely plausible to prefer a package from the Knicks, Celtics, and even Sixers. But once we start ranking William's and Frank above Ball and Ingram.....it's time to take a step back and see that our stance against the Lakers have made us start to throw out hyperbole.

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I think the reason some people, including me, value Frank and Kenrich about Ball and Ingram is simple.

We have a very small sample size of Frank and Kenrich, in which they have been quite good and very promising.
We have a massive sample size of Ball and Ingram, in which they have been very poor and disappointing.

Take Kenrich and Ingram, for example. Kenrich averages only 3.5 points and 2.8 rebounds per game, but he's also only been allowed to play in 17 games, only 11 minutes a game, with very little consistency. He's been in and out of the lineup whenever it suits Gentry, and has been far from a priority.
Ingram, in comparison, has been in 42 games this year, started all of them, and is averaging 34 minutes per game with regularity. So if you want to make any kind of practical comparison, you can only really do so in the eye test, and in the advanced stats which adjust for minutes and possessions.

I'm going to do a fun little game, and list two player's stats per 100 possessions, plus their advanced stats:

Player A: 24pts, 6.8 rebounds, 4.2 assists. 48% from the floor and 32% from three. Net rating of -9, usage rating of 23%, 0.048 win shares per 48 minutes, -2.7 OBPM, -0.3 DBPM, -0.3 VORP.

Player B: 15 points, 11.7 rebounds, 2.5 assists, 49% from the floor and 40% from three. Net rating of -5, usage rating of 13.4%, 0.056 win shares per 48 minutes, -2.3 OBPM, -1.5DBPM, -0.1 VORP.

Now it's actually not very clear who's the better player. Like, player A averages more points and assists, sure, but he's way less efficient and has a much higher usage rating. Player B has the worse defensive box plus minus, but the better net rating and his value over replacement player is higher. There are arguments to be made for both, based on stats when adjusted to take the volume of play out of the equation.

Player A is Ingram, player B is Kenrich. It's actually not clear, when you totally remove name-recognition and adjust for minutes which player is better. And I would go further to say that actually, because of his fractured minutes and irregular opportunities, this measure is still somewhat unkind to Kenrich, as he's had games where he's come in and tallied 0 points in 1 minute and 30 seconds or whatever, which adds games to his total but no real statistical benefit.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Are they going to add some good.players to that, at all?

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I mentioned it because there are new reports that claim "sauces" say the Pels are going to counter the Lakers offers with all of their young guys, except Hart wasn't mentioned, plus 2 firsts and they would have to take back another player which I assume would be Solo. But another team would need to be involved for it to work since the Lakers can't take back all of that salary.

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Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25

I don’t see why everyone is so down on a deal with the he Lakers involving Lonzo, Ingram, Kuzma, Zubac, and a 1st round pick. I don’t think the Celtics, Bulls, or Knicks have a stronger offer. The Knicks are the only ones I would consider and that all hinges on where they pick in the draft. Without the possibility of Porzingis they have a weak offer imo.

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The Knicks offer actually gets better without Porzingis. Porzingis is a big risk because of his injury, whereas DSJ + Dallas picks is actually money in the bank

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Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25

Lonzo if we can get to commit here is a better 3 point shot away from being one of the best 2 way PGs in the NBA. This kid is already a lockdown defender and can be a force offensively with natural progression and experience. Lonzo and Jrue would compliment each other so well and be an absolute terror defensively as the best defensive backcourt duo in the NBA hands down. Hate Lonzo all you want but he is a PG version of Simmons but has actually shown he is developing a 3 while being a better defender. Switch their dads along with the teams and the perspectice on Lonzo is much different. At worse he becomes a 6’6 version of Eric Bledsoe but a much more gifted passer.

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Big ''if'' there, to start off your point. Anyway, sure, if Lonzo develops a shot then perspectives change, but his shot right now is absolutely broken. He's shooting 32% from three, and that's being considered a bright spot for him. That's a real worry, especially when a lot of his value coming out of college was based on the fact that ''it looks weird, but it goes in''. Well, it doesn't go in. Maybe one day it will go on, but you can't base an Anthony Davis trade around the hopes that maybe one day, one of the players involved will learn how to play the other half of basketball. He's a solid defender with a lot of promise on that end, but ''lockdown'' is going a little bit far. I agree he would learn from Jrue on that end pretty well.

He's not the PG version of simmons. Simmons is the PG version of Simmons, and is a better player by a factor of about 10.

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Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25

Ingram just absolutely torched Jimmy Butler the other night shooting 16-20. This kid is better than Tatum and no doubt in my mind has the ability to be as good as a PG13/Butler caliber SF. He is just scratching his potential at 21 years old and is someone the Lakers don’t want to give up for a reason. He is on pace to be an all star SF in a year or 2 by just adding a little bit of strength and consistency. I’ll bet on a 21 year old kid to improve in the areas he needs to a 100/100 times. He is such a gifted playmaker that Coach K has even stated can be a PG in the NBA.

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I thought we weren't doing the 1 game comparison thing? The fact is, we have over 140 Ingram games to look at at an NBA level. Sure, he's young, but so are a lot of other rookies and young players who are just blatantly better. Ingram could improve, sure, but just assuming that one day he'll be a PG13 level player requires so much assumption that it's bordering on the absurd. This is a player who has been a net negative on the court all three years of his career, is lauded as a potential shooter but shoots 32% from three on his career, can't and won't defend anyone unlike those two players you listed, and appears to have very little IQ.

He is not on pace to be an allstar, at all. Not even close. If he continues to ''improve'' at this rate, in two years he'll be averaging 19 points a game and shooting sub -30% from three yet again (he's already done that once in his career and is on pace to do so again this year).

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Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25

Kuzma imo is an ideal stretch 4 in today’s NBA. He has a ton of potential as well at just 23 years old. He has completely transformed his body and added more athleticism to his game. Being able to shadow Lebron along with getting personally trained by Kobe is priceless for this kid. He is continuing to develop his 3 point shot which is absolutely electric at times. IMO he becomes the PF version of Klay Thompson and can be a crucial core piece to a championship team.

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Such an ideal stretch 4 that he's shooting 30% from three as well. Also, not sure if you've noticed this, but Kuzma is strictly a one way player. He cannot defend anyone, hasn't showed much interest in defending anyone, doesn't play team defense either. Klay Thompson is an electric shooter, but a large amount of his value comes from the fact that he is willing, and very able, to defend anyone from 6'9 and downwards. He's a very talented two way player, with a huge amount of value. Kuzma might end up being that good, sure, but he's about to turn 24 so he doesn't have the youth excuse that someone like Ingram does. If he doesn't care about defense today, and didn't care for his last 126 games, I don't see why we're supposed to hang an AD trade on the idea that maybe one day he will.

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Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25

With these 2 picks I target BolBol even if it cost me both to move up and grab him. This kid is going to be the next star big man and would complete our lineup.

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There is one thing we can agree on though: Bol Bol is the future. We can still be friends because of that.

Any way we can pry Phoenix's first from them in a three way? Maybe send them Ball, Ingram and Solo? They would be dumb to do it but hey, you never know. AD to the Lakers and maybe filler from the Suns. Kuzma, Hart, Zubac, and the Lakers first plus the Phoenix first to the Pels.

It doesn't really make sense for the Suns unless they covet one of the Lakers players.

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Originally Posted by P_B_&_G

Any way we can pry Phoenix's first from them in a three way? Maybe send them Ball, Ingram and Solo? They would be dumb to do it but hey, you never know. AD to the Lakers and maybe filler from the Suns. Kuzma, Hart, Zubac, and the Lakers first plus the Phoenix first to the Pels.

It doesn't really make sense for the Suns unless they covet one of the Lakers players.

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I love that. The Lakers players are so whatever that in order to deal with them, we've have to get a third team to supply the most attractive part of the deal, and still somehow that third team is supposed to want those same players we aren't willing to take on their own.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I love that. The Lakers players are so whatever that in order to deal with them, we've have to get a third team to supply the most attractive part of the deal, and still somehow that third team is supposed to want those same players we aren't willing to take on their own.

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What about Phoenix's 1st and Booker for AD? Again, doubtful they would do it because it would certainly be a rental. But again, you never know. I'm not sure if its enough for AD with what other teams are possibly offering.

I think unless you get back an all star level player it either needs to be a sure fire top 3 pick and some young talent or young talent and multiple firsts. That's why I like the Knicks and Celts assets more than the Lakers.

What other teams might have some talent to throw in with a possible top 3 pick?

Chicago for their pick and Markkanen, and Levine

Cleveland doesn't have anything but the pick

The best option surely is to wait and see where the picks fall.

Zion and some other youngsters would be sweet!

See that's the thing. All the people talking about Ingram and Bell over Frank and Kendrich have to back it up with, "If this happens then this player is superior."

Yes if the guy shooting 40% from the FT becomes a 40% 3pt shooter instead he's better.

The entire point of it was let's look at specifically with what we see ON THE COURT and take names and all that stuff out of it. None of our young guys were getting run while we were trying to compete but now we can actually see them with extended minutes.

A lot of people are unable to pull the name away from the players and just evaluate what they see. The point of the exercise was to show a lot of the value of these Laker players are wrapped up in a name because they've failed so drastically that a 2nd round pick and an undrafted guy can even be CLOSE to them in conversation.

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Originally Posted by P_B_&_G

What if they offer Ball, Kuzma, Hart, Ingram, Zubac (sp?), and two firsts for AD and Solo?

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I’d take that today , I like the young guys that organization has been in turmoil since they got there in a big market with all the pressure on them and they’re young if you think that those players won’t improve then you don’t know basketball . Look we’re not going to get equal value for AD it’s about building a solid team and depth and get rid of some of these G league scrubs we got on this roster not everything you do is going be based on getting all stars .


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You know, Dell Demps may not be the ideal GM, but seeing the kinds of trades people propose, the kinds of moves they prefer, the speed with which they're willing to cave to subpar offers, he looks better and better every day.

the lakers need to offer ball,,ingram,,hart,,kuzma,,zubac,,,a third or 4th team involved,,a 1st...for AD and hill right now......as much as i like the lakers players over boston,,,i still would wait until after the top 6 free agents sign to teams to trade AD...

it has gone so deep to where posters are saying frank and williams are better than ball and ingram lol.......frank has caved under the pressure in both games against GS....i dont think ball or ingram caved against them...before he got hurt,,ball played good defense against curry because of his length......ingram has length to guard SF...both can be good 2 way players...

You make the Lakers trade and then you have a ton of Eric Gordons again.

Lonzo has already stated he wants no part of us. Why in GODS NAME do we want to go through that again?

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Originally Posted by kinglio21093

You make the Lakers trade and then you have a ton of Eric Gordons again.

Lonzo has already stated he wants no part of us. Why in GODS NAME do we want to go through that again?

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People keep forgetting this. We’ll have to trade him off and teams will lowball the crap out of us because he hasn’t set the world alight at all. I said it before, it was his comments that hurt the Lakers the most from the getgo

Hahahaha. No, fellas. You guys have just been on the anti-Lakers stance so long you are starting to see mirages.

Again, I'd still go Boston or NY over the Laker trade. I'd probably even prefer a mystery team over the LAL deal. I don't think anyone prefers the Lakers trade as tops. We're just pointing out how ridiculous and radical people are getting against it.

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Originally Posted by kinglio21093

You make the Lakers trade and then you have a ton of Eric Gordons again.

Lonzo has already stated he wants no part of us. Why in GODS NAME do we want to go through that again?

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EXACTLY!

No trading for Lonzo. In fact, have Jrue suffocate Lonzo next time we play just to make a point.


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Originally Posted by msusousaphone

Hahahaha. No, fellas. You guys have just been on the anti-Lakers stance so long you are starting to see mirages.

Again, I'd still go Boston or NY over the Laker trade. I'd probably even prefer a mystery team over the LAL deal. I don't think anyone prefers the Lakers trade as tops. We're just pointing out how ridiculous and radical people are getting against it.

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Don’t be like that. Did you forget how hard everyone was pushing the narrative that we had to trade to the Lakers before the deadline? No need to be contrarian for the sake of it.

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Originally Posted by pelicanchamp

EXACTLY!

No trading for Lonzo. In fact, have Jrue suffocate Lonzo next time we play just to make a point.


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From Lonzo's track record, the best way to suffocate him is just to let him shoot uncontested threes. He'll go 3 of 11 and people will call him the next Magic Johnson some more.

I don't think some of you actually watch other teams play. I know it's hard to do, but there is no way you could actually watch other teams play and walk away with the same impression of all these players. I concede that if I had to chose today, I'd take Tatum, but only because he seems safer. It's actually close between him and Ingram. Ingram's ceiling is higher, but Tatum seems steadier. Ball is a better PG than Smart or Rozier, and actually a perfect fit next to Jrue.

You all seem to dismiss how much Brad Stevens and his coaching and system impacts what we think we're seeing with the Celtics players. Jae Crowder looked like a great player while he was in Boston, but he didn't really look that before, and hasn't looked like that since. Be forewarned on Celtics players. What you think you see could be a byproduct of Brad.

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

I don't think some of you actually watch other teams play. I know it's hard to do, but there is no way you could actually watch other teams play and walk away with the same impression of all these players. I concede that if I had to chose today, I'd take Tatum, but only because he seems safer. It's actually close between him and Ingram. Ingram's ceiling is higher, but Tatum seems steadier. Ball is a better PG than Smart or Rozier, and actually a perfect fit next to Jrue.

You all seem to dismiss how much Brad Stevens and his coaching and system impacts what we think we're seeing with the Celtics players. Jae Crowder looked like a great player while he was in Boston, but he didn't really look that before, and hasn't looked like that since. Be forewarned on Celtics players. What you think you see could be a byproduct of Brad.

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You are not taking into account the picks mate. The Memphis one could be very valuable down the line. The Lakers don’t have any picks worth our consideration.

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Originally Posted by kinglio21093

You make the Lakers trade and then you have a ton of Eric Gordons again.

Lonzo has already stated he wants no part of us. Why in GODS NAME do we want to go through that again?

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This is how phony some of you are.

AD's dad said he doesn't want any part of Boston. Very publicly and clearly on the record. Yet we say that shouldn't impact Boston, AD didn't say it himself, and Ainge will still give up that farm even if AD's people continue to loudly say he won't resign in Boston.

Lonzo's dad said he would prefer to be rerouted to another team where there isn't an established PG. And we flip out thinking that should have some impact on whether or not Dell/Loomis consider a trade with the Lakers! A trade where Ingram, who hasn't said anything, would be the primary player piece coming back - not even Lonzo!

Attachment 6386

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Originally Posted by JJackisangry

You are not taking into account the picks mate. The Memphis one could be very valuable down the line. The Lakers don’t have any picks worth our consideration.

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If Memphis doesn't trade Conley and/or Gasol and wins more games than Orlando/Washington/Pelicans/Detroit down the stretch (and all these teams are trying to tank), good chance the Memphis pick conveys this year. It's top 8 protected. It could also convey next year, when it's top 6 protected. Best case scenario is you wouldn't get that pick until 2021, when it's unprotected, but a lot can happen in that time, and Memphis will be trying to win games if that's the case in 2021. It'll be similar to Kings scenario this year where everyone assumed that pick would be great, and it's then projected to be the last pick in lottery.

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

This is how phony some of you are.

AD's dad said he doesn't want any part of Boston. Very publicly and clearly on the record. Yet we say that shouldn't impact Boston, AD didn't say it himself, and Ainge will still give up that farm even if AD's people continue to loudly say he won't resign in Boston.

Lonzo's dad said he would prefer to be rerouted to another team where there isn't an established PG. And we flip out thinking that should have some impact on whether or not Dell/Loomis consider a trade with the Lakers! A trade where Ingram, who hasn't said anything, would be the primary player piece coming back - not even Lonzo!

Attachment 6386

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I’ll admit that the Lonzo comments don’t really amass to much as he probably will be the starting PG if we go that route, but I am absolutely not sold on him whatsoever. I’d rather some picks, Tatum and Brown. You can toot the “super fan” horn all you want, but you won’t sway many minds that way.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

You're still factoring in name and draft position if you'd without a doubt take Ingram and Ball over Frank and Kendrich. Nothing they've actually shown indicates they are superior especially to the extent that it'd be an easy choice.

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I think you are factoring in that Frank and Kendrich play for the Pelicans. If you watch all of them play, it is clear that Ball and Ingram are superior, at this point. Now, that could change as Frank and Kendrich get more playing time and look more comfortable.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

AD's dad said he doesn't want any part of Boston. Very publicly and clearly on the record. Yet we say that shouldn't impact Boston, AD didn't say it himself, and Ainge will still give up that farm even if AD's people continue to loudly say he won't resign in Boston.
Attachment 6386

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So, it is does not raise a flag to you that the "text" went from AD's dad to Ramona Shelbourne (LA reporter)? Why not Woj or Shams? Could it be that she is shilling for Lebron/Klutch. Ainge is no newbie. He can see through that crap. It is all for the media.