Boogie is gone

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Originally Posted by soggymoss

That means Gayle is willing to go into taxpayer territory if needed,which if we re-sign Boogie we are already in taxpayer territory... Once we get into taxpayer money, our MLe drops to 5.4 million we can offer a single player (one would assume Rondo)

The warriors were actually below the cap when they signed Durant, they didnt exceed it until they started re-signing their own players (after the Durant contract)..

We could technically do the same, however we only have about 680,000 before we hit the 101 million cap threshold, so that's not feasible for us to do..

NBA cap is quite confusing sometimes

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Great. So that comment in the Demps transcript is a bunch of nothing? Go into the tax and...do the same sort of stuff we were doing before? When the luxury tax was more like a hard cap because we were never allowed to go into it.

We should all as least agree that we won't be letting Boogie walk.

Wherever he goes....it'll be more of a shuffle or still rolling.

In summary; the NBA cap is stupid and makes no sense. It's set up in such a way that teams like the Warriors can have seemingly infinite cash to resign their stars and just take tax as punishment; as if they care. It's set up in such a way as to make it possible for teams like Lebron's to just keep on spending and keep in paying off the tax to get seemingly whoever they like. Meanwhile, teams like us are sat wondering if we can scrape up the cash to resign our own free agents.

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

Great. So that comment in the Demps transcript is a bunch of nothing? Go into the tax and...do the same sort of stuff we were doing before? When the luxury tax was more like a hard cap because we were never allowed to go into it.

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Pretty much, however if we re-sign Boogie and Rondo, all we have to really address is the SF position, and being we will be over the cap it would have to be either by a minimum contract guy, or a trade.

If we let Boogie walk, then we have to find a 5 on top of a SF, and we just dont have the trade assets to do both..

Theres no way we allow Boogie to walk IMO, even if we have to offer him a full 5 year max.

Then we will ship off a combo of Hill,Moore,Ajinca,Diallo,Jackson along with draft picks to get a competent SF

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

In summary; the NBA cap is stupid and makes no sense. It's set up in such a way that teams like the Warriors can have seemingly infinite cash to resign their stars and just take tax as punishment; as if they care. It's set up in such a way as to make it possible for teams like Lebron's to just keep on spending and keep in paying off the tax to get seemingly whoever they like. Meanwhile, teams like us are sat wondering if we can scrape up the cash to resign our own free agents.

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While I agree a NFL style of hardcap would be much easier to make sense of the Warriors had a very unique situation happen that allowed them to get to this position.

First they hit on 4 draft picks including the absolute steal that was Green in the 2nd round. Also, Curry had an injury history that meant he took a below market deal. Just last year Curry was still making only 12m. Second is all 3 of their Star drafted core came up for free agency before the giant cap spike. This meant that when the giant spike happened their core was already locked up for multiple years at a realitively cheap price and they could flip their 4th draft hit (Barnes) to clear what bad contracts they did have on their roster because other teams had a ton of space.

So while the way the NBA does their cap might have been partially to blame for the Warriors really what happened was a perfect storm of an injury prone player becoming extremely healthy, hitting on multiple draft picks, and a monster cap spike over 1 free agency period. This allowed them to build their crazy core while not needing to touch the tax until Curry's new deal.


As far as the Cavs go, really look at their team. They got extremely lucky with multiple 1 overall picks but due to not hitting on them all still are in a pretty poor place without Lebron. They owe a lot of players, a lot of money who arent terribly good. The Kyrie trade netted them a good pick but they are on the hook for a big hunk of money with Clarkson and Nance Jr has 1 more cheap year before he's a RFA and will get paid. Lebron has basically covered over a lot of their roster weaknesses due to him being the best player in the world but even he is starting to seem like not enough to overcome that roster.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

While I agree a NFL style of hardcap would be much easier to make sense of the Warriors had a very unique situation happen that allowed them to get to this position.

First they hit on 4 draft picks including the absolute steal that was Green in the 2nd round. Also, Curry had an injury history that meant he took a below market deal. Just last year Curry was still making only 12m. Second is all 3 of their Star drafted core came up for free agency before the giant cap spike. This meant that when the giant spike happened their core was already locked up for multiple years at a realitively cheap price and they could flip their 4th draft hit (Barnes) to clear what bad contracts they did have on their roster because other teams had a ton of space.

So while the way the NBA does their cap might have been partially to blame for the Warriors really what happened was a perfect storm of an injury prone player becoming extremely healthy, hitting on multiple draft picks, and a monster cap spike over 1 free agency period. This allowed them to build their crazy core while not needing to touch the tax until Curry's new deal.


As far as the Cavs go, really look at their team. They got extremely lucky with multiple 1 overall picks but due to not hitting on them all still are in a pretty poor place without Lebron. They owe a lot of players, a lot of money who arent terribly good. The Kyrie trade netted them a good pick but they are on the hook for a big hunk of money with Clarkson and Nance Jr has 1 more cheap year before he's a RFA and will get paid. Lebron has basically covered over a lot of their roster weaknesses due to him being the best player in the world but even he is starting to seem like not enough to overcome that roster.

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I am aware of the warriors situation. They are still astronomically over tax. Where IS the hard cap, for them? Does it never come? I saw a tweet that said the combined cost of this Warriors team, plus he tax, over the next five years is $1.2 BILLION. How the HELL can that be allowed when other teams will be headbutting $100m and be incapable of exceeding it? Regardless of where it came from we're approaching pay to win.

As for the Cavs, that's partially due to Kyrie's trade demand. Last year, they were demolishing the East, getting to the finals, and we're still insanely over tax. It's easily to look at them now and say that they suck, which they do, but they were exceeding the tax last year for a good team that won the East easily. That's not fair.

I know I sound like a petulant child, but it's just so dumb. It's like in football where the best team is the team willing to spend £60m per year on a single player. It's frustrating and ruins all sense of balance. It stops being a game and starts being the stock exchange.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I am aware of the warriors situation. They are still astronomically over tax. Where IS the hard cap, for them? Does it never come? I saw a tweet that said the combined cost of this Warriors team, plus he tax, over the next five years is $1.2 BILLION. How the HELL can that be allowed when other teams will be headbutting $100m and be incapable of exceeding it? Regardless of where it came from we're approaching pay to win.

As for the Cavs, that's partially due to Kyrie's trade demand. Last year, they were demolishing the East, getting to the finals, and we're still insanely over tax. It's easily to look at them now and say that they suck, which they do, but they were exceeding the tax last year for a good team that won the East easily. That's not fair.

I know I sound like a petulant child, but it's just so dumb. It's like in football where the best team is the team willing to spend £60m per year on a single player. It's frustrating and ruins all sense of balance. It stops being a game and starts being the stock exchange.

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Exactly.. The NBA would benefit from a set cap like the NFL, with ways to get out of contracts (or at least not have a HORRIBLE contract absolutely destroy your team for years)...

The luxury tax is a good idea, but these big market teams will just keep paying it over and over.. If they would do something along the lines of a team can only be a taxpayer for no more than 2-3 years and cant enter the tax for 5 years after, that would restore some kind of balance and allow the smaller market teams to compete

Luxury tax is a farce. It is a way to pay off the owners of the smaller market teams to be the punching bags that allow the larger market teams to buy championships. There needs to be a hard cap so that all teams are on the same playing field.

Say the Lakers get Lebron and PG13, but want boogie too...They can't sign him with cap space...Would anyone do this S&T with them?

Ingram and Randle(S&T) to Pels
Cousins to Lakers?

I would love Kuzma, but do not think they are giving him up. Ingram would start at SF and Randle would be a decent big off the bench?

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Originally Posted by msw2024

Say the Lakers get Lebron and PG13, but want boogie too...They can't sign him with cap space...Would anyone do this S&T with them?

Ingram and Randle(S&T) to Pels
Cousins to Lakers?

I would love Kuzma, but do not think they are giving him up. Ingram would start at SF and Randle would be a decent big off the bench?

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Randle would be the same as Mirotic.. We would need to acquire someone to play the 5 ro take Boogies place

With a hard cap teams like the Warriors would cease to exist unless high priced players were willing take below market value pay cut
for a chance to win a title. I don't see that happening. I read somewhere that Curry will be making $42 million in the last year of his current contract.
That is just crazy.

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Originally Posted by stormcenter

With a hard cap teams like the Warriors would cease to exist unless high priced players were willing take below market value pay cut
for a chance to win a title. I don't see that happening. I read somewhere that Curry will be making $42 million in the last year of his current contract.
That is just crazy.

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More than that. The final year of Curry's contract is 2021-22, in which he will be paid $45.7m

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I am aware of the warriors situation. They are still astronomically over tax. Where IS the hard cap, for them? Does it never come? I saw a tweet that said the combined cost of this Warriors team, plus he tax, over the next five years is $1.2 BILLION. How the HELL can that be allowed when other teams will be headbutting $100m and be incapable of exceeding it? Regardless of where it came from we're approaching pay to win.

As for the Cavs, that's partially due to Kyrie's trade demand. Last year, they were demolishing the East, getting to the finals, and we're still insanely over tax. It's easily to look at them now and say that they suck, which they do, but they were exceeding the tax last year for a good team that won the East easily. That's not fair.

I know I sound like a petulant child, but it's just so dumb. It's like in football where the best team is the team willing to spend £60m per year on a single player. It's frustrating and ruins all sense of balance. It stops being a game and starts being the stock exchange.

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Because the Warriors did not activate the hard cap. I realize this is one of the quirks of the NBA cap but basically if you don't use an exception to sign a player you are not hardcapped during the season. You still have to worry about the apron but that is another matter.

I went into it in a little more depth in this thread I did months ago:

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url...1&share_type=t

I don't however breakdown the details of the apron in depth and suggest looking into that if you have more confusion.

To sum up, the Pelicans can be just like the Warriors, as long as they don't use an exception to sign a player. That however becomes harder for us because players are willing to sign with the Warriors on a minimum deal because of being able to get a ring.

My apologies if this has been answered elsewhere. Can someone tell me how much cap room we'll have if.Boogie just walks? This is minus all current free agents we have restricted and unrestricted.

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Originally Posted by Imnos 2

My apologies if this has been answered elsewhere. Can someone tell me how much cap room we'll have if.Boogie just walks? This is minus all current free agents we have restricted and unrestricted.

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We currently sit at around 680,000 of cap space available.. we can re-sign Boogie because we have his bird rights and can exceed the cap to sign him

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

Because the Warriors did not activate the hard cap. I realize this is one of the quirks of the NBA cap but basically if you don't use an exception to sign a player you are not hardcapped during the season. You still have to worry about the apron but that is another matter.

I went into it in a little more depth in this thread I did months ago:

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url...1&share_type=t

I don't however breakdown the details of the apron in depth and suggest looking into that if you have more confusion.

To sum up, the Pelicans can be just like the Warriors, as long as they don't use an exception to sign a player. That however becomes harder for us because players are willing to sign with the Warriors on a minimum deal because of being able to get a ring.

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I am aware. My point isn't that the NBA is somehow just allowing the Warriors to do something against the rules, they're not. The Warriors are within the bounds of the rules.

My point is that the rules are set up in such a way as to be easily exploited, and that this exploitation leads to insane levels of unbalance in the league, and there is no limit to it once it stops. Once it's up, and you've got the bird rights on all your guys, you can keep resigning them as long as you want to, as long as you're willing to pay taxes, and as you said, once you've done that you get players willing to come in for the minimum which means you never need to use exceptions again which means once you're in, you're in, and you don't ever have to leave. You can just spend spend spend.


At this point just let the Warriors all buy a ring from the league in pre-season, and we can all play an actual season for second place. It's pathetic.

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Originally Posted by soggymoss

We currently sit at around 680,000 of cap space available.. we can re-sign Boogie because we have his bird rights and can exceed the cap to sign him

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Thanks!

Then aren't we screwed if he leaves. There is no way to replace that talent if he leaves other than trades.....

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Originally Posted by Imnos 2

Thanks!

Then aren't we screwed if he leaves. There is no way to replace that talent if he leaves other than trades.....

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Pretty much yes.. If he does leave we could hopefully do a sign and trade with him (if not we really are screwed)..

As of now, if Boogie leaves we will have to fill the 5 and the SF position with trades and we dont have the assets for that...

Re-sign Boogie and use the MLE on Rondo, and all we have to fill is the SF position, which we could throw draft picks and Hill,Moore to aquire

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Originally Posted by Tinman

Golly,I hope thats sarcasm!
So, lets see-> If my statement was "Boogie has Zero Leverage"- this would axiomatically mean that ASIK could NOT have any less leverage than Boogie. But, I truly dont see any correlation at all between the two situations.But,if you wanna know who was in a better position-> it was definitely ASIK. He was Garbage, UNDER CONTRACT for 10,000,000 per year for 2017-18 & 18-19 ! NO matter what, he was getting paid.Boogie,on the other hand is receiving ZERO $$$ until he is signed. Pre-Injury,Boogie had some leverage. Post injury there is NOBODY going to pay him Max yr/Money contract. So, as far as the Pelicans go- PELS have all the leverage.

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I figured it was understood that I meant Asik heading into his free agency in 2015, but apparently not. Let's set the scene for you:

Asik: team coming off of an inspired stretch/playoff run that ended in a convincing defeat to the Warriors. Asik was acquired via trade before the season, had an up-and-down year and was virtually unplayable in the playoffs due to both the opponent and his own limitations. Was not highly sought after in free agency (SB nation had him ranked as the 47th best free agent, behind the likes of Al-Farouq Aminu) or, to my knowledge, rumored to be linked with any other teams. The success of the Warriors that season (their first title) and, in particular, their "death lineup", was a clear signal to the entire league that small ball was the way of the immediate future. Somehow still managed a 5 year, $60MM deal.

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Originally Posted by soggymoss

Pretty much yes.. If he does leave we could hopefully do a sign and trade with him (if not we really are screwed)..

As of now, if Boogie leaves we will have to fill the 5 and the SF position with trades and we dont have the assets for that...

Re-sign Boogie and use the MLE on Rondo, and all we have to fill is the SF position, which we could throw draft picks and Hill,Moore to aquire

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So all this talk of we got leverage ain't true. Because if we low ball him he can get pissed and bounce. At that point he will take less out of a lack of loyalty. There is no question we need to give him the max. But he has to give us an out. Team option at some point.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I am aware. My point isn't that the NBA is somehow just allowing the Warriors to do something against the rules, they're not. The Warriors are within the bounds of the rules.

My point is that the rules are set up in such a way as to be easily exploited, and that this exploitation leads to insane levels of unbalance in the league, and there is no limit to it once it stops. Once it's up, and you've got the bird rights on all your guys, you can keep resigning them as long as you want to, as long as you're willing to pay taxes, and as you said, once you've done that you get players willing to come in for the minimum which means you never need to use exceptions again which means once you're in, you're in, and you don't ever have to leave. You can just spend spend spend.


At this point just let the Warriors all buy a ring from the league in pre-season, and we can all play an actual season for second place. It's pathetic.

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Your entire 1st paragraph was asking how the Warriors are able to go over the hard cap so it wasn't clear at all that you were aware of why they were able to.

I guess I'm not mad because the Pelicans can do the same thing this summer and set themselves up for the future. Yes a hard cap that every team has to stay under would be best because just look at how many different teams make the playoffs in the NFL.

However due to the players association in the NBA I don't believe we will ever get something like that. They like it exactly how it is.

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Originally Posted by Imnos 2

So all this talk of we got leverage ain't true. Because if we low ball him he can get pissed and bounce. At that point he will take less out of a lack of loyalty. There is no question we need to give him the max. But he has to give us an out. Team option at some point.

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I dont see how anyone can say we have all the leverage and Boogie has none... Someone will throw a max at him in FA quick, the only questions should be if we give him a 5 year max or will he accept a 3 year max... The money shouldnt even be a question, he will get max money, the years should be the only negotiating...

If we lose Boogie, we are pretty much screwed, unless we go into next season with Hill as our SF and make a trade for another 5... AD wont play the 5 all season, or at least he wont be happy about it

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

Your entire 1st paragraph was asking how the Warriors are able to go over the hard cap so it wasn't clear at all that you were aware of why they were able to.

I guess I'm not mad because the Pelicans can do the same thing this summer and set themselves up for the future. Yes a hard cap that every team has to stay under would be best because just look at how many different teams make the playoffs in the NFL.

However due to the players association in the NBA I don't believe we will ever get something like that. They like it exactly how it is.

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My ''How the HELL is this allowed' was less of a real question and more of a rhetoric ''By what logic is this systematic arrangement considered in any way sane'' way.

You're right though, the players association would never allow it.

Within that original Instagram post... where the chick asks why he unfollowed and he said... cos I’m grown... there’s a whole series of replies and someone just writes ‘OFF’ which omri caspi ‘likes’ ... so I’m guessing he’s off and caspi knows about it =|

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Originally Posted by England_Hornet

Within that original Instagram post... where the chick asks why he unfollowed and he said... cos I’m grown... there’s a whole series of replies and someone just writes ‘OFF’ which omri caspi ‘likes’ ... so I’m guessing he’s off and caspi knows about it =|

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I don't even know what off means in that context.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

I don't even know what off means in that context.

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I read it as ...he’s off.

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Originally Posted by England_Hornet

I read it as ...he’s off.

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He's off what? He's off... Ended? He's off to a new team? He's off the rocker?

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Originally Posted by ml wave

I figured it was understood that I meant Asik heading into his free agency in 2015, but apparently not. Let's set the scene for you:

Asik: team coming off of an inspired stretch/playoff run that ended in a convincing defeat to the Warriors. Asik was acquired via trade before the season, had an up-and-down year and was virtually unplayable in the playoffs due to both the opponent and his own limitations. Was not highly sought after in free agency (SB nation had him ranked as the 47th best free agent, behind the likes of Al-Farouq Aminu) or, to my knowledge, rumored to be linked with any other teams. The success of the Warriors that season (their first title) and, in particular, their "death lineup", was a clear signal to the entire league that small ball was the way of the immediate future. Somehow still managed a 5 year, $60MM deal.

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Let me set the scene for you- it wasn't 12 million per, first of all. 2) on the market at that time was ZERO Centers that you could get for 10,500,000 per year. 3) He did NOT have a catastrophic injury & 4) Pels had a completely different identity at that time. Different offense, new coaching staff etc. Asik was a proven defensive & rebounding commodity. Once again, your logic is specious comparing the 2. Absolutely NOTHING in common. So, let me set the scene for you again- I've been sitting in that arena watching crappy teams since Dan Dickau & I would be VERY reluctant to give 1/3 of my salary cap to a guy that can't drive because he can't put his foot on a gas pedal right now. I am a HUGE Boogie fan. Doesn't correlate to giving him that money, hoping he comes back. Riddle me this - Pay Boogie 30 million, he doesn't come back until January & we miss the playoffs by a couple of games? You call that a Step Forward ?

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Originally Posted by Tinman

Let me set the scene for you- it wasn't 12 million per, first of all. 2) on the market at that time was ZERO Centers that you could get for 10,500,000 per year. 3) He did NOT have a catastrophic injury & 4) Pels had a completely different identity at that time. Different offense, new coaching staff etc. Asik was a proven defensive & rebounding commodity. Once again, your logic is specious comparing the 2. Absolutely NOTHING in common. So, let me set the scene for you again- I've been sitting in that arena watching crappy teams since Dan Dickau & I would be VERY reluctant to give 1/3 of my salary cap to a guy that can't drive because he can't put his foot on a gas pedal right now. I am a HUGE Boogie fan. Doesn't correlate to giving him that money, hoping he comes back. Riddle me this - Pay Boogie 30 million, he doesn't come back until January & we miss the playoffs by a couple of games? You call that a Step Forward ?

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Riddle me this..

We dont pay Boogie, we lose him, AD is forced into playing the 5 which he doesn't want to play, AD gets mad and demands a trade, we trade him and we fall to Suns/Kings status...

Is that a step forward?

I guess we’ll just have to wait till July 1st. Either he stays or goes I think it’s a sign and trade unless he goes to Dallas or Phoenix. I personally think he stays. Jrue did the same postering last year. If it’s up to me I’d give 100 million over 3 years with a team out for year 3 but if he really pushed I’d give the player option.

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Originally Posted by soggymoss

Riddle me this..

We dont pay Boogie, we lose him, AD is forced into playing the 5 which he doesn't want to play, AD gets mad and demands a trade, we trade him and we fall to Suns/Kings status...

Is that a step forward?

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Yeah,if boogie leave ,,I see gentry riding Niko and ad at the 4 and 5....yeah demps will sign a center but gentry will try to ride his small ball into another contract.....I also see ad leaving if we force this on him....

My thing is resign boogie...I'm banking on boogie playing after the all-star break.......trade Niko at the deadline and hope we can get a SF...be ready to make the big run in the 19-20 season with a healthy boogie,,,a solid SF and a new coach that will keep ad at the 4 and use the bigs to their advantage.....

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Originally Posted by 6warddude

Yeah,if boogie leave ,,I see gentry riding Niko and ad at the 4 and 5....yeah demps will sign a center but gentry will try to ride his small ball into another contract.....I also see ad leaving if we force this on him....

My thing is resign boogie...I'm banking on boogie playing after the all-star break.......trade Niko at the deadline and hope we can get a SF...be ready to make the big run in the 19-20 season with a healthy boogie,,,a solid SF and a new coach that will keep ad at the 4 and use the bigs to their advantage.....

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Boogie will miss a little time, but he should be good to play fully in August/September... Recovery time for an Achilles tear is usually 6 months when they can return to full activity..

I think we need to keep Niko, trade a combo of Moore, Hill, Ajinca and future 1sts to get our SF...

The more I think about it, I wonder if Boston would be willing to part with someone (we all know they love draft picks).. with Hayward coming back next year they maybe willing to part with Brown

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Originally Posted by soggymoss

Riddle me this..

We dont pay Boogie, we lose him, AD is forced into playing the 5 which he doesn't want to play, AD gets mad and demands a trade, we trade him and we fall to Suns/Kings status...

Is that a step forward?

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Well, I'm gonna kill 2 birds w/ 1 stone. 1) 6 months is 100% WRONG. The shortest duration of any player in NBA coming back from an Achilles Tendon Tear is 246 days . That's Wesley Mathews. 265 days for Rudy Gay. Both guys much smaller that Boogie. Don't have to be a Math major to discover that 246 days is NOT 6 months. So, I guess we have yet to find an actual sports medicine grad on this website. Thus, the rest of your analogy need not be addressed because it is dependent upon your eronious healing time table. Thus, your credibility is shot.

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Originally Posted by Tinman

Well, I'm gonna kill 2 birds w/ 1 stone. 1) 6 months is 100% WRONG. The shortest duration of any player in NBA coming back from an Achilles Tendon Tear is 246 days . That's Wesley Mathews. 265 days for Rudy Gay. Both guys much smaller that Boogie. Don't have to be a Math major to discover that 246 days is NOT 6 months. So, I guess we have yet to find an actual sports medicine grad on this website. Thus, the rest of your analogy need not be addressed because it is dependent upon your eronious healing time table. Thus, your credibility is shot.

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Tinman,

I've stated your exact sentiments in previous posts, but I was called crazy. You're exactly right! Boogie might as well call this upcoming season a wrap due to his injury happening basically at the beginning of February. It takes athletes a full year to recover from this type of injury. Not 6-8 months. I don't care how much he posts on IG or his Twitter of his progress. It's great that he's doing so, but the reality of it is he will miss next season. Now, would you pay a player the full max-deal knowing this.

Also, I studied sports medicine at the University of Alabama at Birmingham (UAB).

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Originally Posted by TPDG22

Tinman,

I've stated your exact sentiments in previous posts, but I was called crazy. You're exactly right! Boogie might as well call this upcoming season a wrap due to his injury happening basically at the beginning of February. It takes athletes a full year to recover from this type of injury. Not 6-8 months. I don't care how much he posts on IG or his Twitter of his progress. It's great that he's doing so, but the reality of it is he will miss next season. Now, would you pay a player the full max-deal knowing this.

Also, I studied sports medicine at the University of Alabama at Birmingham (UAB).

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I think the Pels are secretly hoping that someone offers Boogie an outlandish amount. Mathews & Gay are exceptions at 8 1/2 months. Best case scenario for a bigun like a boogie is probably 10-11 months. That's being generous. That puts Boogie at January of 19 there abouts. Looka - these folks act as though I am pulling for failure. I'm not. I am a HUGE Boogie fan, but I am not keen on giving him 34 million per to sit take up a roster spot for 2-3 months & then minutes restriction & no back to backs for 1 month.
Others on this forum feel differently & that's fine. They aren't wrong, I just disagree. I don't wanna give 1/3 of my salary cap to pine sitter for more than half the year.

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Originally Posted by England_Hornet

Within that original Instagram post... where the chick asks why he unfollowed and he said... cos I’m grown... there’s a whole series of replies and someone just writes ‘OFF’ which omri caspi ‘likes’ ... so I’m guessing he’s off and caspi knows about it =|

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Dang. That's actually not good.

Edit: Oh wait. I read that like Boogie put OFF and Casspi liked it.....just some rando writing it is not much.

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Originally Posted by TPDG22

Tinman,

I've stated your exact sentiments in previous posts, but I was called crazy. You're exactly right! Boogie might as well call this upcoming season a wrap due to his injury happening basically at the beginning of February. It takes athletes a full year to recover from this type of injury. Not 6-8 months. I don't care how much he posts on IG or his Twitter of his progress. It's great that he's doing so, but the reality of it is he will miss next season. Now, would you pay a player the full max-deal knowing this.

Also, I studied sports medicine at the University of Alabama at Birmingham (UAB).

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Again. Even if he missed an entire year (worst case scenario), he'd be back right around All Star break. Without a setback there is no possible way he misses the entirety of next season.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

Again. Even if he missed an entire year (worst case scenario), he'd be back right around All Star break. Without a setback there is no possible way he misses the entirety of next season.

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Even if he came back in January, I wouldn't pay him 34 million. That's 30 ish games w/out 34 mill available. But, as I said- It doesn't make your POV wrong, I just disagree.

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Originally Posted by Tinman

Even if he came back in January, I wouldn't pay him 34 million. That's 30 ish games w/out 34 mill available. But, as I said- It doesn't make your POV wrong, I just disagree.

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Are you sure his deal is 34m next year? It's been awhile since I checked but I thought his 1st year of his max would start around 30m. I could be wrong though. Sleep has not been very forthcoming recently.

My take is far more long term. I don't really care if he misses half the season or only plays in 30ish games or so next season. We still aren't winning title next year and baring some insane injury Golden State will still cake walk everyone. My focus is on long term team success and I see Cousins as being key long term if we want to compete for titles.

If we don’t re sign him... we don’t suddenly get a load of cap space back. I’d rather we sign him and he comes back at 80% for half a season than have tiny cap space to fill the roster with .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

Are you sure his deal is 34m next year? It's been awhile since I checked but I thought his 1st year of his max would start around 30m. I could be wrong though. Sleep has not been very forthcoming recently.

My take is far more long term. I don't really care if he misses half the season or only plays in 30ish games or so next season. We still aren't winning title next year and baring some insane injury Golden State will still cake walk everyone. My focus is on long term team success and I see Cousins as being key long term if we want to compete for titles.

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DeMarcus Cousins 27 C $27,095,775
Rajon Rondo 32 PG $3,960,000
Ian Clark 27 SG $1,544,951

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/new-orlea...cans/cap/2018/

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Originally Posted by Tinman

Well, I'm gonna kill 2 birds w/ 1 stone. 1) 6 months is 100% WRONG. The shortest duration of any player in NBA coming back from an Achilles Tendon Tear is 246 days . That's Wesley Mathews. 265 days for Rudy Gay. Both guys much smaller that Boogie. Don't have to be a Math major to discover that 246 days is NOT 6 months. So, I guess we have yet to find an actual sports medicine grad on this website. Thus, the rest of your analogy need not be addressed because it is dependent upon your eronious healing time table. Thus, your credibility is shot.

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Did I say 6 months to game shape? I dont think so, its 6 months to full activity...

August/September would be 7-8 months (around 240 days), so it's not out the realm of possibility he can start returning in that time frame to restricted minutes...

2) As I've told you earlier in this thread, if we dont re-sign Cousins we dont gain any cap space, we only have enough space to sign minimum contract guys, and yes we can trade guys but we still have to receive back salaries, so we are still in the same boat salary cap wise

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Originally Posted by soggymoss

Did I say 6 months to game shape? I dont think so, its 6 months to full activity...

August/September would be 7-8 months (around 240 days), so it's not out the realm of possibility he can start returning in that time frame to restricted minutes...

2) As I've told you earlier in this thread, if we dont re-sign Cousins we dont gain any cap space, we only have enough space to sign minimum contract guys, and yes we can trade guys but we still have to receive back salaries, so we are still in the same boat salary cap wise

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You keep digging with that shovel. "By August/Sept Boogie should be fully ready to go" was your atatement. That is NOT gonna happen. Nice word salad, but what good does his "full activity date" do for the Pels. Also, 8 months is NOT the normal time. Matthews & Gay are exceptions & much smaller guys. FULLY ready to go means --> he's ready to play. It's been 109 days and he can do NOTHING yet. So, he has , by your specious logic 135 days to completely heal & ready for play. Huh. Your 240 day # is the END of Sept. And 240 has never been done. You seem to like to stretch your numbers a bit. Boogie will NOT be on the court in October or November. But - You seem to know a LOT about EVERYTHING . Salary Cap, possible trade restrictions, Achilles Tendon tear heal time . You are out of this world smart, I gotta tell ya. Where were you before Nov. of 2017? If you would've been here the prior 5yrs, WOW, the folks on this board would've been so much wiser. Meh !

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

Are you sure his deal is 34m next year? It's been awhile since I checked but I thought his 1st year of his max would start around 30m. I could be wrong though. Sleep has not been very forthcoming recently.

My take is far more long term. I don't really care if he misses half the season or only plays in 30ish games or so next season. We still aren't winning title next year and baring some insane injury Golden State will still cake walk everyone. My focus is on long term team success and I see Cousins as being key long term if we want to compete for titles.

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Yeah, you could be right. I think it is just above 30.

Hey, Myth ! Per NBC sports - Max offer would be 5yr 176 million. So, we were both incorrect. I had NO idea it was North of 35 million. Whew. BTW- is soggymoss your doppelgänger? Lol.

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Originally Posted by Tinman

You keep digging with that shovel. "By August/Sept Boogie should be fully ready to go" was your atatement. That is NOT gonna happen. Nice word salad, but what good does his "full activity date" do for the Pels. Also, 8 months is NOT the normal time. Matthews & Gay are exceptions & much smaller guys. FULLY ready to go means --> he's ready to play. It's been 109 days and he can do NOTHING yet. So, he has , by your specious logic 135 days to completely heal & ready for play. Huh. Your 240 day # is the END of Sept. And 240 has never been done. You seem to like to stretch your numbers a bit. Boogie will NOT be on the court in October or November. But - You seem to know a LOT about EVERYTHING . Salary Cap, possible trade restrictions, Achilles Tendon tear heal time . You are out of this world smart, I gotta tell ya. Where were you before Nov. of 2017? If you would've been here the prior 5yrs, WOW, the folks on this board would've been so much wiser. Meh !

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He cant do anything yet?

The boot is gone, hes walking on it, and he just posted a picture in IG 2 days ago of him taking shots in a gym..

Wouldn't call that doing nothing:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by soggymoss

He cant do anything yet?

The boot is gone, hes walking on it, and he just posted a picture in IG 2 days ago of him taking shots in a gym..

Wouldn't call that doing nothing:rolleyes:

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C'mon man, enough with the shenanigans. He's standing at the foul line shooting a basketball. Having the boot off doesn't correlate with being able to do anything. Keep pressing forward, Soggy, you'll get there. The guy is literally JUST STANDING there with a BBall in hand & your analysis is "He is now doing something" O Lordy B. It's been well over 3 months & the boot came off- yeaaaaaaaaa ! Which means there is been ZERO "Resistance rehab" to this point. Yep, he'll be ready in Sept.

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Originally Posted by Tinman

Let me set the scene for you- it wasn't 12 million per, first of all. 2) on the market at that time was ZERO Centers that you could get for 10,500,000 per year. 3) He did NOT have a catastrophic injury & 4) Pels had a completely different identity at that time. Different offense, new coaching staff etc. Asik was a proven defensive & rebounding commodity. Once again, your logic is specious comparing the 2. Absolutely NOTHING in common. So, let me set the scene for you again- I've been sitting in that arena watching crappy teams since Dan Dickau & I would be VERY reluctant to give 1/3 of my salary cap to a guy that can't drive because he can't put his foot on a gas pedal right now. I am a HUGE Boogie fan. Doesn't correlate to giving him that money, hoping he comes back. Riddle me this - Pay Boogie 30 million, he doesn't come back until January & we miss the playoffs by a couple of games? You call that a Step Forward ?

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Fine, 5 years, $57,977,525...point to you there. I'm not really talking about how many games Boogie will miss in the beginning of the first year of a multi-year contract, or whether we'll take a step forward or miss the playoffs or not...the conversation was about leverage. You say Boogie has no leverage, despite other teams actually wanting him and being one of the top 5 or so free agents available...Asik got $57,977,525 without any of those things. Heck, Jrue got ~$125MM. I think Dell has a very difficult decision to make here and I don't envy him, but to say Boogie has no leverage is kinda crazy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by soggymoss

Boogie will miss a little time, but he should be good to play fully in August/September... Recovery time for an Achilles tear is usually 6 months when they can return to full activity..

I think we need to keep Niko, trade a combo of Moore, Hill, Ajinca and future 1sts to get our SF...

The more I think about it, I wonder if Boston would be willing to part with someone (we all know they love draft picks).. with Hayward coming back next year they maybe willing to part with Brown

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Somehow I doubt they're in a hurry to trade Brown for all of our assorted flotsam. I do wonder what they're going to do with Kyrie and Hayward though, especially if they make the Finals. Going to be hard for Brown and Tatum to continue to develop if they both come back. They can probably buy another year, but at some point they'll have some decisions to make, and trading the more expensive guy who also happens to have chronic knee problems seems like it should be on the table.

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Originally Posted by ml wave

Fine, 5 years, $57,977,525...point to you there. I'm not really talking about how many games Boogie will miss in the beginning of the first year of a multi-year contract, or whether we'll take a step forward or miss the playoffs or not...the conversation was about leverage. You say Boogie has no leverage, despite other teams actually wanting him and being one of the top 5 or so free agents available...Asik got $57,977,525 without any of those things. Heck, Jrue got ~$125MM. I think Dell has a very difficult decision to make here and I don't envy him, but to say Boogie has no leverage is kinda crazy.

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Again, Jrue and Asik weren't crippled. Pels have the leverage because we can offer him a substantial amount $ juxtaposed to other teams. We can offer him 35+ per yr. no other team can offer him over 30. So, that's a 5,000,000 dollar leverage point for the Pels. Also, no other team is going to offer Boogie THEIR max, unless it's a crappy team in total rebuild (doubt Boogie would want to go to a loser again). That's a second leverage point for the Pels. 3) If contender offers Boogie a contract, I'm hypothesizing 25-28 million, then Dell can weigh his options - AT that Inflection point. NOT at 35 million. So,IMHO, Boogie has NO CARDS (can still try and Bluff)! BUT- if no other team makes a legitimate offer, then Boogie can't even bluff. He has to fold.