Mirotic deal done ✅

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

You keep saying this as of Mirotic isn't signed for next year as well. There are two options that will happen...

1) We keep him and we have the best 3 man big rotation in the entire league.

2) We trade him (in the summer or during the season) and recoup a large portion of the value we spent or get more players that fit and help us.

We've already won no matter what happens.

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An expiring Mirotic will not net a mid first. We are paying the Bulls both for eating an extra half season of Asik's contract and giving us an extra half season of Niko. That's value lost by this offseason.

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Originally Posted by N.O.Bronco

I'd still be ok firing Demps tomorrow. Cousins and Mirotic are not elite GM moves. They are pretty much standard fare any non-incompetent GM should be able to pull off. Cousins was simply because we picked Buddy. Bulls wanted a first for Mirotic, they got it. They are below the salary floor so they are in a position to take on salary like Asik. I guess good on him bringing in a second rounder though.

That doesn't automatically make this a bad trade though. Its actually a very good deal IMO.

I would move on from Demps because I have little faith in him threading the knot that is coming up with Cousins contract. Thats where a great GM would make his money. Take this move to leverage Cousins, who shares an agency with Niko, to make things favorable for all parties, knowing the risk of a 270 pound guy, who likely will not garner a max from any team, coming back from a serious achilles injury. Done in order to maximize the roster's potential.

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All my history with Demps has led me to believe that he will full max Cousins.

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Originally Posted by Pelifan

yea I said Rivers was bad, everyone else told me he was a good pick. Back in 2012

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So now you are talking in circles. By your description above, he is an example of a long-term asset that we should not want to trade for a veteran. The chances of hitting on a player in the teens to twenties is slim (although possible). It is a risk and if it were a top 10 pick, I would be agreeing. However, I am pretty comfortable that pick will not be top 10.

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Originally Posted by Pelifan

An expiring Mirotic will not net a mid first. We are paying the Bulls both for eating an extra half season of Asik's contract and giving us an extra half season of Niko. That's value lost by this offseason.

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Mirotic didn't net a mid 1st from us. We got a 2nd round pick back and dumped Asik's contract. There is value in those things as well.

I knew today would be an awesome day.

If we get Monroe....I really like our chances to make a top 5 seed. We will actually have some depth on the bench and rebounding.

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

So now you are talking in circles. By your description above, he is an example of a long-term asset that we should not want to trade for a veteran. The chances of hitting on a player in the teens to twenties is slim (although possible). It is a risk and if it were a top 10 pick, I would be agreeing. However, I am pretty comfortable that pick will not be top 10.

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No Demps inability to draft is on himself. There have been plenty of good players available in the teens over the years. I'm not even saying you keep the 2018 first. But you make a deal in the 2018 offseason from a position of strength rather than a position of weakness. It would be nice if we'd kept all our picks and used our capspace differently and we'd be in a better shape than we are now. But we can't. All we can do is make the right decisions for the longterm health of the franchise and this was not one of them.

If you think that NO pick without Niko would have ended up in the 20s you're delusional. It more than likely still won't.

Good teams build through the draft. Or accumulate assets/flexibility to make big moves. We have done none of those things. This team is capped out and is still short of contention.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

Mirotic didn't net a mid 1st from us. We got a 2nd round pick back and dumped Asik's contract. There is value in those things as well.

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But Asik becomes barely worse than an expiring in a couple of months. A 2nd round pick is mostly nothing. In a few months the Bulls would be begging us to swap Mirotic for Asik and a first and offer to throw in Holiday or Portis too when Asik's contract becomes more palatable and Niko becomes an expiring.

Dont believe me? ask Utah how those Favors offers are going.

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Originally Posted by Pelifan

But Asik becomes barely worse than an expiring in a couple of months. A 2nd round pick is mostly nothing. In a few months the Bulls would be begging us to swap Mirotic for Asik and a first and offer to throw in Holiday or Portis too when Asik's contract becomes more palatable and Niko becomes an expiring.

Dont believe me? ask Utah how those Favors offers are going.

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Asik isn't an expiring in a couple of months. His value comes in the summer of 2019. He is still a negative this summer.

And why the heck would we want to take Portis? He is the entire reason Mirotic demanded to be traded.

We dumped 3 players, got back Mirotic and a 2nd, created enough cap space to sign Monroe and another player all for the cost of a 1st which has higher odds of busting than playing meaningful minutes.

I didn't think anyone could be upset with this trade, but yet again the internet one ups itself.

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Originally Posted by Pelifan

Good teams build through the draft. Or accumulate assets/flexibility to make big moves. We have done none of those things. This team is capped out and is still short of contention.

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We made our big move last season in trading for Cousins. As soon as that trade was made we were all in. Everything since then has been with that in mind.

Every team outside of Golden State is short of contention. That doesn't mean you throw up your hands and give up.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

We made our big move last season in trading for Cousins. As soon as that trade was made we were all in. Everything since then has been with that in mind.

Every team outside of Golden State is short of contention. That doesn't mean you throw up your hands and give up.

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Agree 100%... this move puts us in great position for next year.

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Originally Posted by Pelifan

No Demps inability to draft is on himself. There have been plenty of good players available in the teens over the years. I'm not even saying you keep the 2018 first. But you make a deal in the 2018 offseason from a position of strength rather than a position of weakness. It would be nice if we'd kept all our picks and used our capspace differently and we'd be in a better shape than we are now. But we can't. All we can do is make the right decisions for the longterm health of the franchise and this was not one of them.

If you think that NO pick without Niko would have ended up in the 20s you're delusional. It more than likely still won't.

Good teams build through the draft. Or accumulate assets/flexibility to make big moves. We have done none of those things. This team is capped out and is still short of contention.

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Good players in the teens... maybe like 2-3 at best every year.

Great move by the Pelicans. Mirotic is in the Western Conference, now. Versatile player who is only 26. He’s having his best year despite missing a big chunk of the season. If needed, he can play the 3. Greg Monroe come on down! 2018-19 is looking good if Cousins re-signs.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

Asik isn't an expiring in a couple of months. His value comes in the summer of 2019. He is still a negative this summer.

And why the heck would we want to take Portis? He is the entire reason Mirotic demanded to be traded.

We dumped 3 players, got back Mirotic and a 2nd, created enough cap space to sign Monroe and another player all for the cost of a 1st which has higher odds of busting than playing meaningful minutes.

I didn't think anyone could be upset with this trade, but yet again the internet one ups itself.

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yea I'm sure you thought the same thing about the Asik trade. And I was in the minority against that too.

I will say at least I'm excited to watch the new look Pelicans. I like Monroe and Mirotic an awful lot. But when Kemba and others start flying around to new teams this offseason and you're thinking to yourself we could have had this guy or that guy if we had more assets, I'll be there. Reminding you of this deal.

Something else I really like diving into Mirotic is his consistency. He has had 1, just 1 single digit scoring game this season when he plays at least 25 minutes.

That is David West style consistency.

Only one game where he didn't make a three. Often at least two and rarely dipping below 33% on them.

he currently averages 25 minutes in 17-6.5, 47%, 43% from three. I know its a risky, often throwaway state, but per 46 he would be a 24 and 9 player. That is pretty impressive of a haul for a late first rounder. And quite the insurance for Cousins.

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Originally Posted by N.O.Bronco

Something else I really like diving into Mirotic is his consistency. He has had 1, just 1 single digit scoring game this season when he plays at least 25 minutes.

That is David West style consistency.

Only one game where he didn't make a three. Often at least two and rarely dipping below 33% on them.

he currently averages 25 minutes in 17-6.5, 47%, 43% from three. I know its a risky, often throwaway state, but per 46 he would be a 24 and 9 player. That is pretty impressive of a haul for a late first rounder. And quite the insurance for Cousins.

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I like Mirotic but his consistency over 25 games does not outweigh the inconsistency over his career. I hope he's figured it out as he's always been a talented player but before this season he was about as inconsistent as they come.

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Originally Posted by Pelifan

yea I'm sure you thought the same thing about the Asik trade. And I was in the minority against that too.

I will say at least I'm excited to watch the new look Pelicans. I like Monroe and Mirotic an awful lot. But when Kemba and others start flying around to new teams this offseason and you're thinking to yourself we could have had this guy or that guy if we had more assets, I'll be there. Reminding you of this deal.

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Free agency is after the draft. We will still be able to make moves in the off season and we will own all of our future picks moving forward. If we wanted Kemba this summer, we could get him.

Hell, Mirotic could probably be used in that trade to get him easier.

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Originally Posted by N.O.Bronco

Something else I really like diving into Mirotic is his consistency. He has had 1, just 1 single digit scoring game this season when he plays at least 25 minutes.

That is David West style consistency.

Only one game where he didn't make a three. Often at least two and rarely dipping below 33% on them.

he currently averages 25 minutes in 17-6.5, 47%, 43% from three. I know its a risky, often throwaway state, but per 46 he would be a 24 and 9 player. That is pretty impressive of a haul for a late first rounder. And quite the insurance for Cousins.

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I think he’s our latest Ryno which isn’t a bad deal for a mid-late first. Plus, dumping Asik in the process ain’t bad either.

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Originally Posted by Pelifan

I like Mirotic but his consistency over 25 games does not outweigh the inconsistency over his career. I hope he's figured it out as he's always been a talented player but before this season he was about as inconsistent as they come.

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I think it is fair to judge him based on the 25 games this season. He obviously made some improvements and added some weight over the last off-season. He could thrive even more on this pels roster, especially when boogie comes back. We need to keep everyone healthy throughout next year. If we can get/stay healthy, we will be hard to beat.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

Free agency is after the draft. We will still be able to make moves in the off season and we will own all of our future picks moving forward. If we wanted Kemba this summer, we could get him.

Hell, Mirotic could probably be used in that trade to get him easier.

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a rebuilding team would rather Asik and a first (plus whatever other kind of assets). Also I know FA is after the draft, Im talking about in trades. I know a lot about the NBA, but I'm not going to be condescending about it. So please, dont do that. Youre doing that a lot. Please assume I know what I'm talking about aka don't MM me.

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Originally Posted by Topdawg26

I think he’s our latest Ryno which isn’t a bad deal for a mid-late first. Plus, dumping Asik in the process ain’t bad either.

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Ugh I hope he plays much better than Anderson. We really need him to be.

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Originally Posted by Pelifan

yea I said Rivers was bad, everyone else told me he was a good pick. Back in 2012

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This kind of hurts he entire case you are trying to make.. Rivers and majority of the draft behind him is a perfect example of why we shouldn't hold to much value in a mid 1st round pick at best.. we have a couple of young potential contributors on the team in Jackson and Diallo while still being able to add more in the upcoming draft. We don't need much more young talent then that when it would only hurt us with what we are trying to do.

LoL how can you seriously say Asik and his expiring contract along with the 1st would be worth more in the off season then someone like Mirotic who is expiring as well but can actually be a missing piece for another team if we decide to go that route. We can easily flip him for a 1st rounder at the least for a desperate team. He is someone you can eat a very good deal in return with him as one of the main assets in a deal. You throw someone like Moore in with him and a future pick is a very good package in return giving us the potential to land a stud. Or we keep him and make a deep run next season while either extending him or using that expiring $ on something else. There are so many options Mirotic offers us creating a lot of flexibility.

Well I hope this means he’s gonna take the 12.5 option next year cause losing a 1st for a half year rental isn’t any good. Now we just got sign up Greg Monroe. If we make those moves who starts? AD at center or Monroe? Mirotic comes off the bench? Adding those two would have to make up for what we will miss from losing Cousins.

C: Monroe, Ajinca
PF: AD, Mirotic, Diallo
SF: Miller, Hill, DC
SG: Moore, Clark, Cooke
PG: Jrue, Rondo, James

Or small ball:

C: AD, Monroe, Ajinca
PF: Mirotic, DC, Diallo
SF: Moore, Miller, Hill
SG: Jrue, Clark, Cooke
PG: Rondo, James

Well, ignoring all of the contentious opinions being thrown around in this thread, I like the move a lot.

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Originally Posted by DaPelFromHell

Well I hope this means he’s gonna take the 12.5 option next year cause losing a 1st for a half year rental isn’t any good. Now we just got sign up Greg Monroe. If we make those moves who starts? AD at center or Monroe? Mirotic comes off the bench? Adding those two would have to make up for what we will miss from losing Cousins.

C: Monroe, Ajinca
PF: AD, Mirotic, Diallo
SF: Miller, Hill, DC
SG: Moore, Clark, Cooke
PG: Jrue, Rondo, James

Or small ball:

C: AD, Monroe, Ajinca
PF: Mirotic, DC, Diallo
SF: Moore, Miller, Hill
SG: Jrue, Clark, Cooke
PG: Rondo, James

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His option being picked up for next year was a condition of the trade. He will be here next season.

Anyone who thinks we can turn around and move Mirotic for more value this offseason is wearing rose colored glasses. Mirotic loses value as he approaches the end of his contract. We also cant afford to resign Mirotic longterm so someone tell me what the realistic best case longterm scenario is?

Doesn't this also give us frontcourt insurance in the event Boogie heads elsewhere this offseason. It shouldn't be a foregone conclusion he's resigning here.

I'm very eh on this trade, because if Asik in a year is actually an asset, then I'd rather wait it out + keep that 1st rounder.

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Originally Posted by Primetime

Doesn't this also give us frontcourt insurance in the event Boogie heads elsewhere this offseason. It shouldn't be a foregone conclusion he's resigning here.

I'm very eh on this trade, because if Asik in a year is actually an asset, then I'd rather wait it out + keep that 1st rounder.

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He wouldnt be an asset, but he also wouldnt be as big of a negative and would probably net a better return attached to a first.

Yeah. I feel like I was one of the staunchest proponents of "not messing up the future to save this season" and I dig this trade. Guess some people just can't be pleased. Monroe would be so good. Digging this. Was kind of in a depressive state where I missed a game or two after the Boogie Pop but this has me back.

Now that we have Mirotic, what would be the odds of Dell pulling off another trade?

Something like Ajinca and the 2nd rounder (with a future 2nd) for Elfrid Payton?

We could still sign Monroe and Liggins

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Originally Posted by soggymoss

Now that we have Mirotic, what would be the odds of Dell pulling off another trade?

Something like Ajinca and the 2nd rounder (with a future 2nd) for Elfrid Payton?

We could still sign Monroe and Liggins

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I was just thinking, the ability to make another deal is surely possible. Don't think Lou Williams is attainable anymore, but who knows? Payton would be great. I also wouldn't be opposed to parting with the 2nd for a guy like Demarre Carroll.

If Dell manages to get rid of Asik AND Ajinca in a week's time, I will never tweet #FireDempsToo again.

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Originally Posted by kinglio21093

I was just thinking, the ability to make another deal is surely possible. Don't think Lou Williams is attainable anymore, but who knows? Payton would be great. I also wouldn't be opposed to parting with the 2nd for a guy like Demarre Carroll.

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Carroll would be way to expensive at 14.8 this year, and 15.4 next year.. Pretty much no way to make that happen anymore now that we have Mirotic

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Originally Posted by soggymoss

Carroll would be way to expensive at 14.8 this year, and 15.4 next year.. Pretty much no way to make that happen anymore now that we have Mirotic

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Yea Carroll is off the board with this Mirotic trade. He would have been okay, but I like Mirotic's fit better, he's actually a lot more versatile than Ry-And, and just as good a shooter, even better this year.

Payton would be a good option fa sho, not sure just a 2nd with Ajinca gets him, though. Maybe Diallo added, too.

Didn't realize Carroll is making that much money. Holy cow.

AD was very happy with this move that’s all I need to hear for me to know this was the right move . AD and Cousins opinion is what matters the most keeping those guys happy not some 1st round pick that won’t contribute for years .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Pelifan

a rebuilding team would rather Asik and a first (plus whatever other kind of assets). Also I know FA is after the draft, Im talking about in trades. I know a lot about the NBA, but I'm not going to be condescending about it. So please, dont do that. Youre doing that a lot. Please assume I know what I'm talking about aka don't MM me.

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Where have I been anything but cordial in my discussions? We disagree on opinion but are having a back and forth. Let's not attempt to derail the conversation we are having by trying to throw ulterior motives around.

As far as your points go, the teams cannot have Asik and our 2018 1st in the summer in a trade. They can only have Asik plus whatever player we drafted who the other team may have little to no interest in. Mirotic is an expiring next year, his value in any trade that would be possible this summer is far higher than what Asik's would be. Any pick we could bundle with Asik this summer can still be bundled with Mirotic this summer.

This trade doesn't hurt our summer trade abilities at all. It gives us a valuable asset that if we decide we don't want to keep we can easily include in any deal.

My argument would be a mid 1st rounder after they are drafted and before they have played a single game has less value or equal value to Mirotic on an expiring contract that allows the team to keep his Birds Rights.

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Originally Posted by Rheem654

Yea Carroll is off the board with this Mirotic trade. He would have been okay, but I like Mirotic's fit better, he's actually a lot more versatile than Ry-And, and just as good a shooter, even better this year.

Payton would be a good option fa sho, not sure just a 2nd with Ajinca gets him, though. Maybe Diallo added, too.

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I'd throw in another 2nd to keep Diallo, or give an option for 1st round pick swap (doubt they would go for that)

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Originally Posted by Pelifan

Anyone who thinks we can turn around and move Mirotic for more value this offseason is wearing rose colored glasses. Mirotic loses value as he approaches the end of his contract. We also cant afford to resign Mirotic longterm so someone tell me what the realistic best case longterm scenario is?

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I'm with you I just don't see the long term benefits. One more year obviously is better than an expiring deal, but Cousins will likely miss time next year even if we can retain him and not likely to be back to 100%(if ever) for 18months. Why are we making win now moves?

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

I'm with you I just don't see the long term benefits. One more year obviously is better than an expiring deal, but Cousins will likely miss time next year even if we can retain him and not likely to be back to 100%(if ever) for 18months. Why are we making win now moves?

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Recent history says Cousins can be back to 100% long before 18 months. You're talking August of 2019. Where are you getting that from?

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Originally Posted by luckyman

Recent history says Cousins can be back to 100% long before 18 months. You're talking August of 2019. Where are you getting that from?

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From all I've heard about achilles injuies it takes about 18months before athletes feel 100%. That's not to say he won't be able to play and/or in no risk of farther injury. Just that guys don't get full athleticism back.

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Originally Posted by Rel11

If Dell manages to get rid of Asik AND Ajinca in a week's time, I will never tweet #FireDempsToo again.

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Love the AVI

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Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN

You can have all the first rounders when Davis leaves.
Why keep them now?
You need to show Davis we are serious about contending.
You can't do this with 18 to 20 year old kids.

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This.

Did I also see that Mirotic is also 26? Even with the little basketball knowledge I have, we sign Monroe and that is an impressive group of players. If Mirotic plays like he played against us the other night, this is a huge gain.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

I'm with you I just don't see the long term benefits. One more year obviously is better than an expiring deal, but Cousins will likely miss time next year even if we can retain him and not likely to be back to 100%(if ever) for 18months. Why are we making win now moves?

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Even more reason to like the mirotic trade. It allows us to stay competitive next year instead of just resigning to giving up on this year AND next.

AD wants to win. Could you imagine trying to tell him, "we are committed to winning we just need you to wait 2 more seasons."

Good luck with that.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

Even more reason to like the mirotic trade. It allows us to stay competitive next year instead of just resigning to giving up on this year AND next.

AD wants to win. Could you imagine trying to tell him, "we are committed to winning we just need you to wait 2 more seasons."

Good luck with that.

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Fair enough. But what qualifies as winning? A 1st round exit from the playoffs?

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Originally Posted by Primetime

Fair enough. But what qualifies as winning? A 1st round exit from the playoffs?

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I can tell you what isn't winning, Trying to tank for that "1 more player".

AD wants the playoffs. Getting him there is the only possible path forward to keeping him.

People, get this through your head, we are not winning anything of significance as long as the Warriors are in their prime. Let’s just enjoy a Memphis or CP3 Clippers type of playoff run until the salary cap catches up to Golden State, whenever that will be.

Rodney Hood would be a great get too.

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Originally Posted by kinglio21093

Rodney Hood would be a great get too.

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I would love that but that’s highly unlikely now.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

Even more reason to like the mirotic trade. It allows us to stay competitive next year instead of just resigning to giving up on this year AND next.

AD wants to win. Could you imagine trying to tell him, "we are committed to winning we just need you to wait 2 more seasons."

Good luck with that.

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I’m I the only one who thought we were built as a more athletic and better shooting version of Memphis when they should have beaten Golden State. I think we could give them a run for their money next year when Boogie resigns.