SICK OF WATCHING RIVERS

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Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25

Yes I agree with exactly what you said on Rivers but with his youth and the inprovement he has made leaves me with no doubt he will become a starting caliber guard on a championship team. If not starting then one of the more deadly players off the bench in the league. Look at guys like Danny Green and what he has done. Patty Mills and just about everyone on the Spurs including Belinelli. Players can improve and a lot as Leonard into a semi superstar talent. Am I saying Rivers is the next Leonard or Paul George? No but he has potential just as they did to make huge leaps like he has already. Our lineup with Evans at SF with 3 capable guys handling the ball at an elite level will give teams problems just like they give us. Evans is as tall and long as Leonard and Iguodala who both play the 3 at an elite defensive level. I think Evans under Monty can turn into a very good if not great defender by buying in and hard work. He has the heigh and length. You can't use 1 player in Durant on why he can't do it because beating them involves a team playing D together.

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I want a larger sample size before I crown Rivers. He has shown improvement, yes, but he still is shooting 50% at the line and still has a ways to go in development.

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Originally Posted by N.O.Bronco

I want a larger sample size before I crown Rivers. He has shown improvement, yes, but he still is shooting 50% at the line and still has a ways to go in development.

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I hear u. But rivers definitely looks much better.


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I think both sides go too far with Rivers.

After a bad game, he is the worst player ever.

After a good game, "the sky is the limit."

Neither is true IMO. What is undeniable, however, is that he is an NBA caliber player. Whether he is a 7th guy on a good team or a 9th or 10th guy, the fact is that he is good enough to be a rotation player right now in the NBA and that deserves respect. Now, he can get better than that, but the sky is not the limit. Maybe an office building is the limit, or a mini sky scraper. But not the sky. There is clearly a limit for this guy - be it fringe starter like Avery Bradley or a little less like Jerryd Bayless. But either way, he is a legit NBA player.

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Originally Posted by Perth_Hornet

*cums*

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Hmmm

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Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25

I got that information from the same place you got that Rivers was just going to leave. If we have a very good season Monty and Dell are going nowhere. we didn't draft Rivers with the 10th pick to just say bye when his contract comes up. They perfectly knew he needed to be developed and maybe more than what they expected but he is doing everything they could possibly ask of him.

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From that TP article where Rivers said its a business, and he was going to make them regret not extending him? I guess different readers get different messages from the same piece, like The Jungle, Alice in Wonderland, or Mein Kampf.

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Originally Posted by bojangles837

Hmmm

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http://cdn.ksk.uproxx.com/wp-content...adybutters.gif

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Originally Posted by NOLa.

http://cdn.ksk.uproxx.com/wp-content...adybutters.gif

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:hihi:

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Originally Posted by NOLa.

http://cdn.ksk.uproxx.com/wp-content...adybutters.gif

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:hihi:

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Originally Posted by SaintPelican225

16 points 9 assist 0 turnovers.....Damn what else you want

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Less ill advised shots.

If those 16 points come on 50 shots...

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Originally Posted by Perth_Hornet

Less ill advised shots.

If those 16 points come on 50 shots...

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But they came on 11 shots....

Rivers had a good game for us. I'd like to see him play more with the starters than Gordon but whatever do your thing Monty. If he can provide what he did last night game after game we couldn't ask for much more out of our 7th man.

Rivers has been playing really well so far this season.

Rivers works hard and has improved every season, why would u not pick up his option, especially with a rumored increase salary cap? doh!

even though we declined his option is it still possible to give him a contract extension?

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

even though we declined his option is it still possible to give him a contract extension?

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I'll let you re read your question and see if the answer isn't also in the question. . .

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

Rivers works hard and has improved every season, why would u not pick up his option, especially with a rumored increase salary cap? doh!

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Because his level of play over his first 1 seasons didn't warrant his 3-4mil salary he would have got next year.

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

even though we declined his option is it still possible to give him a contract extension?

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Absolutely.

The only restriction is that the dollar amount of the 1st year of that extension cannot be higher than the dollar amount of the year we declined.

We opted out so we wouldn't have to keep paying him like a lottery pick.

I think we'll lock him up for a few years at a much cheaper price, with a team option. (good contract for unproven talent)

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Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar

Absolutely.

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We cannot give him a contract extension because at the end of this season we will have no contract with him. He will be an UFA this offseason.

We can negotiate with him and offer him a new contract but we cannot go higher than what his QO amount was, so other teams could theoretically offer him more. We can offer him the same amount of years as other teams however.

Basically if Rivers has a good year we can easily be outbid on him. If he has an average year we should be able to bring him back. If he has an awful year he is off our books.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

We cannot give him a contract extension because at the end of this season we will have no contract with him. He will be an UFA this offseason.

We can negotiate with him and offer him a new contract but we cannot go higher than what his QO amount was, so other teams could theoretically offer him more. We can offer him the same amount of years as other teams however.

Basically if Rivers has a good year we can easily be outbid on him. If he has an average year we should be able to bring him back. If he has an awful year he is off our books.

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Guru didn't say at the end of the year. He just asked if we could give him a contract extension. The answer as I explained it yes, and by extension you know he means just a contract.

http://midlevelexceptional.com/2014/...cale-contract/

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Let’s use Thomas Robinson as an example. Portland had a team option for the 2015-16 season that would have paid T-Rob about $4.66 million. Declining it means that Robinson will be an Unrestricted Free Agent this summer free to sign with anyone he likes without matching or compensation. While he can sign with any of the other 29 teams for whatever amount he likes from his minimum to his maximum, Robinson cannot come to any agreement with Portland that would have his first-year salary higher than that approximately $4.66 million amount.

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So as long as the 1st year of the hypothetical contract dollar amount is less than the year we declined we could offer him a deal. But I have a feeling we will let him play out his contract and test free agency.

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Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar

Guru didn't say at the end of the year. He just asked if we could give him a contract extension. The answer as I explained it yes, and by extension you know he means just a contract.

http://midlevelexceptional.com/2014/...cale-contract/



So as long as the 1st year of the hypothetical contract dollar amount is less than the year we declined we could offer him a deal. But I have a feeling we will let him play out his contract and test free agency.

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I honestly don't know what Guru meant, he says lots of things that are wrong, so I took his question at face value and answered it.

It's not going to happen before year's end. There is absolutely ZERO incentive for Rivers to sign any type of extension. I laid out exactly what will happen.

We will have to negotiate a new contract with him. If he plays good, we get out bid, average we will be able to bring him back, bad he is off the books.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

I honestly don't know what Guru meant, he says lots of things that are wrong, so I took his question at face value and answered it.

It's not going to happen before year's end. There is absolutely ZERO incentive for Rivers to sign any type of extension. I laid out exactly what will happen.

We will have to negotiate a new contract with him. If he plays good, we get out bid, average we will be able to bring him back, bad he is off the books.

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I don't think anything will happen before the end of the year, so I agree with you there. But you know that he was just asking if there was a way we could keep him on the team even though we declined his option. That's all he meant, not going to give him a hard time because the wording may not have been 1000% correct.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B1sCvJPIcAASHol.jpg

Austin Rivers and Sam Cassell. 7 years apart, tied together forever.

Wait so if rivers plays out of his mind and is offered 4 year 40 million. We couldn't offer him more even with bird rights?

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Originally Posted by HoustonPelicans

Wait so if rivers plays out of his mind and is offered 4 year 40 million. We couldn't offer him more even with bird rights?

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No. Our first year can only be what we declined, so if another team offers something higher we cannot match. Bird rights is irrelevant in that regard.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

No. Our first year can only be what we declined, so if another team offers something higher we cannot match. Bird rights is irrelevant in that regard.

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Wow Demps is an absolute idiot for declining that option.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

No. Our first year can only be what we declined, so if another team offers something higher we cannot match. Bird rights is irrelevant in that regard.

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Wow Demps is an absolute idiot for declining that option.

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Originally Posted by HoustonPelicans

Wow Demps is an absolute idiot for declining that option.

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Fans call Demps and idiot for drafting Rivers, now after 1 good game he's an idiot for declining his option. If Rivers played his first 2 seasons like he was worth it his option wouldn't have been declined.

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Originally Posted by HoustonPelicans

Wait so if rivers plays out of his mind and is offered 4 year 40 million. We couldn't offer him more even with bird rights?

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That would never happen.

4 games in, give him the max!

Weird, we said the same thing about Aminu when we declined him and he had a great first game against the spurs 2 seasons back

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Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar

Because his level of play over his first 1 seasons didn't warrant his 3-4mil salary he would have got next year.



Absolutely.

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thanks

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

I honestly don't know what Guru meant, he says lots of things that are wrong, so I took his question at face value and answered it.

It's not going to happen before year's end. There is absolutely ZERO incentive for Rivers to sign any type of extension. I laid out exactly what will happen.

We will have to negotiate a new contract with him. If he plays good, we get out bid, average we will be able to bring him back, bad he is off the books.

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Funny how raisingthebar knew exactly what I was asking, because all he had to do was read what I asked.

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Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar

I don't think anything will happen before the end of the year, so I agree with you there. But you know that he was just asking if there was a way we could keep him on the team even though we declined his option. That's all he meant, not going to give him a hard time because the wording may not have been 1000% correct.

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Thank you, I am gonna have to start treating this forum like it's a freaking harvard english class from now on.

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

Funny how raisingthebar knew exactly what I was asking, because all he had to do was read what I asked.

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Don't be upset. You DO say lots of wrong things and I DID read what you asked, we can't extend his contract. We can offer him a new one but we can't extend anything.

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Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar

Fans call Demps and idiot for drafting Rivers, now after 1 good game he's an idiot for declining his option. If Rivers played his first 2 seasons like he was worth it his option wouldn't have been declined.

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He's an idiot because the risk of declining the option was higher than the reward. This is about more than one game. It's one game and the last 30 games of last season. Give me one good reason he had for declining the option? Because to my understanding it doesn't even create more cap space.

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Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar

Fans call Demps and idiot for drafting Rivers, now after 1 good game he's an idiot for declining his option. If Rivers played his first 2 seasons like he was worth it his option wouldn't have been declined.

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He's an idiot because the risk of declining the option was higher than the reward. This is about more than one game. It's one game and the last 30 games of last season. Give me one good reason he had for declining the option? Because to my understanding it doesn't even create more cap space.

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Originally Posted by HoustonPelicans

He's an idiot because the risk of declining the option was higher than the reward. This is about more than one game. It's one game and the last 30 games of last season. Give me one good reason he had for declining the option? Because to my understanding it doesn't even create more cap space.

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You really cannot possibly believe what you are saying.

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Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar

You really cannot possibly believe what you are saying.

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What wouldn't i believe? What's a good reason to decline the option?

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Originally Posted by HoustonPelicans

What wouldn't i believe? What's a good reason to decline the option?

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I've said it at least 3 times in this thread...Rivers' play first 2 seasons did not warrant his 3-4mil a year price tag next year. That is unarguable.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

I think both sides go too far with Rivers.

After a bad game, he is the worst player ever.

After a good game, "the sky is the limit."

Neither is true IMO. What is undeniable, however, is that he is an NBA caliber player. Whether he is a 7th guy on a good team or a 9th or 10th guy, the fact is that he is good enough to be a rotation player right now in the NBA and that deserves respect. Now, he can get better than that, but the sky is not the limit. Maybe an office building is the limit, or a mini sky scraper. But not the sky. There is clearly a limit for this guy - be it fringe starter like Avery Bradley or a little less like Jerryd Bayless. But either way, he is a legit NBA player.

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I was saying this before Rivers had this game and actually had it recording on DVR so knew nothing about it. Yes you are correct on people going nuts either way he does something but no matter what I have always taken the stance wether it's a great game or horrible give him time to actually develop. No do not believe he will be Lebron or Durant but the sky absolutely is the limit for this kid. He could still be in college but instead left before his body was developed. Now his body is catching up and he still has room fornimproeent on his strength, speed, quickness, etc.. He has all the tools and ability you see in a great pg/sg. He has the ability hands down t be a star in this league not saying a super star but definitely a star. To say otherwise is just being ignorant. He also has the ability to go absolutely nowheree from what he is now and being a 7th guy or starter on terrible teams. Leonard and George both went from guys who weren't stats to superstars over the course of a season. Rivers has the ability to atleast hit start level with development over the next few years no doubt. He can get to the basket with the best of them and has an elite skill at that. He is not an elite finisher around the rim but has become much better and I believe he will get better. His confidence and shot has been what has held him back from really tearing it up which he is getting back. Rivers was hampered by injuries and other bad breaks to keep him off the court. Hard to come in with limited minutes and prove anything but with the playong time he has done so as of lately and end of last season. In a way he reminds me a lot of Mark Ingram. I respect everyone's view on him wether they think he will be garbage or great. I have seen you many times say how it isn't fair we don't let people develop anymore like the old days and they are done after one bad season in the fans eyes. You have also stated being on good teams can be drastic in how a player turns out and develops. I think we are building something special and guys will teach their potential.

Avery Bradley is a very good player - far better than Rivers has ever been. Saying that is his ceiling is not an insult. A pretty big compliment IMO

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Avery Bradley is a very good player - far better than Rivers has ever been. Saying that is his ceiling is not an insult. A pretty big compliment IMO

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Avery Bradley does not have near the skill set or ability that Rivers has offensively. Rivers from day 1 was better at getting to the rim than Bradley will ever be. He has a much higher ceiling and potential than Bradley has. He's is also 3 inches taller with a good bit of weight and now strength turning into his favor. Bradley is a great defender for the guard position and Rivers has the ability to be as good or better on that side of the ball. Bradley has nowhere near the ability Rivers has on offense. Bradley can not play the pg position to save his life and has to be an undersized 2 guard who makes a name for himself with effort, defense, and a decent 3 point shot. Rivers has the ability to play both guard spots and even at times cover the 3. Rivers can create for his teammates which Bradley doesn't have in his skill set. Rivers will make a huge jump year 3 and change a lot of people's view on him and I'm willing to put $ on it.

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Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25

I was saying this before Rivers had this game and actually had it recording on DVR so knew nothing about it. Yes you are correct on people going nuts either way he does something but no matter what I have always taken the stance wether it's a great game or horrible give him time to actually develop. No do not believe he will be Lebron or Durant but the sky absolutely is the limit for this kid. He could still be in college but instead left before his body was developed. Now his body is catching up and he still has room fornimproeent on his strength, speed, quickness, etc.. He has all the tools and ability you see in a great pg/sg. He has the ability hands down t be a star in this league not saying a super star but definitely a star. To say otherwise is just being ignorant. He also has the ability to go absolutely nowheree from what he is now and being a 7th guy or starter on terrible teams. Leonard and George both went from guys who weren't stats to superstars over the course of a season. Rivers has the ability to atleast hit start level with development over the next few years no doubt. He can get to the basket with the best of them and has an elite skill at that. He is not an elite finisher around the rim but has become much better and I believe he will get better. His confidence and shot has been what has held him back from really tearing it up which he is getting back. Rivers was hampered by injuries and other bad breaks to keep him off the court. Hard to come in with limited minutes and prove anything but with the playong time he has done so as of lately and end of last season. In a way he reminds me a lot of Mark Ingram. I respect everyone's view on him wether they think he will be garbage or great. I have seen you many times say how it isn't fair we don't let people develop anymore like the old days and they are done after one bad season in the fans eyes. You have also stated being on good teams can be drastic in how a player turns out and develops. I think we are building something special and guys will teach their potential.

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I'll tell you this much. IF..... IF a team is going to take a "one-and-done" type of kid from college, they need to be able to get him ample time and opportunity for the original skills they liked in him to take over. We don't have many guys ever playing down a level. It sucked watching Julian Wright digress as a Hornet. Losing Brandon Bass for nothing is only one reason of many reasons I hate Byron Scott. ECSPECIALLY after he said how he's never seen someone go in practice so hard, then fold in games? (Cause he would get yanked when he took a bad shot and all)

I'd like to see Russ Smith a little more

Saying Rivers ceiling is Avery Bradley is in no way a compliment and as insulting as it gets. I don't understand that ceiling comparison at all.

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Originally Posted by fullcourtpress

I'll tell you this much. IF..... IF a team is going to take a "one-and-done" type of kid from college, they need to be able to get him ample time and opportunity for the original skills they liked in him to take over. We don't have many guys ever playing down a level. It sucked watching Julian Wright digress as a Hornet. Losing Brandon Bass for nothing is only one reason of many reasons I hate Byron Scott. ECSPECIALLY after he said how he's never seen someone go in practice so hard, then fold in games? (Cause he would get yanked when he took a bad shot and all)

I'd like to see Russ Smith a little more

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Byron Scott mite arguably be the worst coach in NBA history for a rookie to learn, develop, and get the time he needs to learn the game. I think Rivers just wasn't ready physically along with some mechanics. He got thrown in the fire a little to early because of injuries instead of being able to develop his skills. In a way it was good for him but was also bad. I think injuries slowed down a lot of his progress also from having to rehab instead of get better. He just needs time like many other very good players needed and it is showing in his play late last season and early this season. Rivers needed to earn his play and he has. Russ Smith is someone I would like to see play more also but just like Rivers I want to see him earn it and have the time to develop without people judging him as a rookie or in his 2nd season on what he will be. Not fair to expect these players to be maxed out immediately. For all we know AD is maxed out but none of us believe so. Davis needed time also and it's showing what it is doing for him to allow and give him the fair chance to develop. He has arguably become the most coveted player in the league if you could go and draft every single player in a pool.

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Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar

I've said it at least 3 times in this thread...Rivers' play first 2 seasons did not warrant his 3-4mil a year price tag next year. That is unarguable.

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Okay I see what you're saying. Sorry, I was being irrational. But the last 1/3rd of last season Rivers played well enough for a 21 year old to earn his option imo. You can't keep looking back at his rookie season when considering his future. If GMs stayed in the past no way do Ariza get his contract this summer.

If you are offended by Avery Bradley as Rivers ceiling, then I have a feeling you will be very disappointed by how his career plays out. Not everyone can be great. Being one of the top 100 players in the world (which Bradley is) is an amazing accomplishment. Does Rivers handle better? Sure. Bradley has other skill sets than Rivers won't touch. But role wise - great defensive guard who can knock down shots and score in bunches from time to time, I think that is his ceiling, and that is a compliment in my eyes.

and looking at their 3rd year cumulative stats, they sit pretty spot on, couple of minor differences here or there, but overall on the money.