Andre Iguodala opts out

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

$15 million a year for an aging Iguodala? What? Hell no! I like him as a player but not at more than $10 million. I am not sure what winning culture he brings as he played mainly for losing teams most of his career.

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That's not true, He's been in the playoffs 6 out of his 9 seasons.

Just want to throw it out there that Iggy suffered a little in Denver because they had him at sg. He plays a lot better at sf. There's stats out there that back this up but I'm too lazy to find them

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Denver's defense with Iggy on the court allows as many points per 100 possessions as the 7th best defensive team in the NBA. When he's off, they allow more than the 30th best team in the league!

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http://www.denverstiffs.com/2013/2/2...ive-specialist

Enough said. Credit goes to THRILLHO.

If we draft Dario Saric or even Alex Len, then I would go after Iggy for sure. I am also tired of rooting for losses at the end of seasons, lol. I would rather be rooting for wins in playoff games that we may or may not have chances in. Say we draft Saric and he wants to stay in Croatia, we better go after a decent small forward in free agency. Saric staying over seas for another year or two wouldn't be that bad of a scenario. If we were to land Iggy and Gordon stays healthy, this team could easily challenge for a playoff spot IMO. Anthony Davis will be better for sure and could maybe even challenge for an All Star spot if he plays like I think he will. Austin Rivers will be better IMO and can not get any worse lol. Now the only problem with signing Iggy, is we will not be able to afford too much else. Maybe we can sign Anthony Morrow, but he made a lot more than I thought at 4 million last year. That is crazy. If we could get a bargain at shooting guard like a deal Martell Webster had last year would be ideal at 1.6 million.

Can you imagine running a set with Gordon handling the ball running the pick and roll with Davis, while on the other side Ryno is setting a pick and pop with Iggy. Then Gordon having an option of hitting a shot, throwing an oop to either Davis or Iggy, hitting Ryno for an open 3, or hitting Rivers or Vasquez in the corner for 3 as well. Magnificent lol!

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Originally Posted by Nola Hornet

http://www.denverstiffs.com/2013/2/2...ive-specialist

Enough said. Credit goes to THRILLHO.

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:hihi: I stole it from someone else in this thread and posted it on TD.

Iguodala/Davis/Len has the potential to be by far the best defensive frontcourt in the entire NBA.

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Originally Posted by THRILLHOUSE

:hihi: I stole it from someone else in this thread and posted it on TD.

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:(

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

But that addition of David West sure seemed to help out their young guys didn't it? And don't you think playing with him for these couple of years will help George and Hibbert, etc. long after he is gone?

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i agreed with you...my point is there is nothing wrong with becoming a middling team next year as long as there is still some internal room for improvement(which there is)...becoming a championship contender is a series of steps..nothing wrong with making a huge step next year even if it means we won't have a top 5 pick

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Originally Posted by Bee-Fense

Iguodala/Davis/Len has the potential to be by far the best defensive frontcourt in the entire NBA.

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Still not interested.

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Originally Posted by Nola Hornet

You keep harping on those stats like I was implying that he's going to average that. He has put up those type of numbers out side of the percentages plenty of times throughout his entire career on any given night. You act like he's offensively challenged.

If you knew how winshares were calculated then why would you dismiss DWS if it is used to calculate winshares? Makes no sense to me.

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I did not dismiss DWS
you did

and you didn't answer my question
Is he worth a 4 yr max?

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Originally Posted by cgrand

I did not dismiss DWS
you did

and you didn't answer my question
Is he worth a 4 yr max?

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Irrelevant. He's not getting a max contract. He's going to get somewhere in the 12-15 ballpark which is what a player like him commands.

The only thing I care about is whether or not be can be beneficial to the team. And the answer is yes. Only Demps and Williams can tell you what he's worth to this team.

Nice to see you taking what I say out of context. You clearly don't understand winshares and why it hurts a player like Iggy.

It would be strange if the # of millions of $ he makes would be greater than the # of points he averaged last year.

15 > 13

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Originally Posted by jsl05

It would be strange if the # of millions of $ he makes would be greater than the # of points he averaged last year.

15 > 13

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But he would also average more millions than points he allowed his opponent to score as well. How rare do you think that is? Remember, defense is 50% of the game.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

But he would also average more millions than points he allowed his opponent to score as well. How rare do you think that is? Remember, defense is 50% of the game.

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That's true, but a below-average Harrison Barnes played better against Iggy.

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Originally Posted by Nola Hornet

Irrelevant. He's not getting a max contract. He's going to get somewhere in the 12-15 ballpark which is what a player like him commands.

The only thing I care about is whether or not be can be beneficial to the team. And the answer is yes. Only Demps and Williams can tell you what he's worth to this team.

Nice to see you taking what I say out of context. You clearly don't understand winshares and why it hurts a player like Iggy.

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what is the context that you feel I have ignored?
I will bet you a cold abita that he gets either 5 yrs from Denver or a 4 yr max from someone else

I love his game and would love for him to be on our team
But this will be his last big contract and he will be in high demand, for all the reasons you and others have listed
There is no way he signs here unless its for the max
If you have reasons why that's not true, I would love to hear them

by the way I say if he leaves that 5th yr on the table he signs with cleveland

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Originally Posted by Kurgan

A player who is pretty much a non-factor on offense, who relies almost only on his athleticism on everything else and is hitting 30? Giving the MAX to iguodala? Good lord i certainly hope not. I'd like to have him but for far, far less

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You don't last this long in the league, get chosen for team USA, max contracts, All-star games and such merely relying on athleticism. He is a stat sheet stuffer meaning he has keen basketball knowledge. Very good passer. People who keep saying he relies on athleticism really haven't seen him play much.

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Originally Posted by jsl05

That's true, but a below-average Harrison Barnes played better against Iggy.

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Barnes played the 4 that series.

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Originally Posted by MonsterMash

Barnes played the 4 that series.

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my bad only watched game 1 and sinfully looked at the box score

Only thing that I don't want from Iggy is a huge contract number. Otherwise, it's just what the doctor ordered.

And the Posey comparison couldn't be more wrong. Posey was never half the player Iggy is right now.

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Originally Posted by Nola Hornet

That's not true, He's been in the playoffs 6 out of his 9 seasons.

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How many teams were over 500? I think only 3 or 4 and only last year was he actually on a "good" team (over a few games over 500).

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

Only thing that I don't want from Iggy is a huge contract number. Otherwise, it's just what the doctor ordered.

And the Posey comparison couldn't be more wrong. Posey was never half the player Iggy is right now.

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Yeah, but Posey's contract was only a third annually of what is proposed here ;)

If Andre Iguodala can play small forward at 6'6" 207, why can't Tyreke Evans play the position at 6'6" 220?

Iggy: age 29, 6'11" wingspan & 8'9.25" reach
Career stats: 15.1 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 4.9 apg, 1.8 spg

Tyreke: age 23, 6'11.25" wingspan & 8'8" reach
Career stats: 17.5 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 4.8 apg, 1.4 spg

I think they look pretty similar stat wise with Tyreke scoring more and Iggy rebounding more. Tyreke mostly played guard, so by moving to small forward his rebounding numbers would likely increase. I would rather add the younger player with room to improve instead of an older player that will not improve much if at all.

Harrison is not below-average

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Yeah, I think guys like Wiggins will succeed wherever they go, but the chances of getting him are slim to none. Most guys, though, will only be as good as the situation they are put in. I am in the camp that believes Rondo or Parker wouldn't be half the players they are now if they were drafted by some garbage team with a culture of losing.

The Spurs have gotten stars at 28 and 57 in the draft. Another budding star at 15. The Pacers whole team was drafted 10 or later.

You bring young guys into a culture like that and they might start out a little less talented than guys taken in the top 5 by garbage teams, but over time they will succeed more.

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Solid post MM. :clap:

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Originally Posted by jsl05

Why not? He could help out the young guys and fill in at small forward until we get the right guy. He's looked good so far and is an excellent passer. I'd rather him for $1 million than Iguodala for $15 million.

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LOL. I'm speechless. This isn't 2005. Since when has he get been a veteran leader? Dude had never even been out if the 1st round of the playoffs until this year with the Spurs. No thanks.

Im with Mac on this if it came down to it and he was gonna get paid that much $ for us to get him I say do it. I don't see us getting anybody better in the years on his contract and to think he is old is so stupid. If anything he is only going to get better and better by learning from the best in team USA. Iggy might turn the corner and be a dominant scorer with a great shot for remainder of his career. What I saw in the playoffs was potential to be a 20 ppg a night scorer easily while shooting 40%.

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Originally Posted by cgrand

what does then?
you have to quantify his "impact" in some manner

the easy way is wins...
denver got better, philly got worse
but...was it iggy?

now here's a didyaknow:
iguodala's WS and WS/48 last year were career lows, by far

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Could b age, or it could b he was playing out of position (he played the 2 alot last season) and on a fast pace team for the first time in his career?

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Originally Posted by GeauxPelicans

LOL. I'm speechless. This isn't 2005. Since when has he get been a veteran leader? Dude had never even been out if the 1st round of the playoffs until this year with the Spurs. No thanks.

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We should pick up Adam Morrison then. He won a title with the Lakers.

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

We should pick up Adam Morrison then. He won a title with the Lakers.

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:hihi:

We maybe competing with Dallas for Iggy if Dallas loses the CPME/Dhoward sweepstakes.

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Originally Posted by tyler

Harrison is not below-average

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Yes that was a dumb statement. He is going to be good. Could see it at end of playoffs.

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Originally Posted by Shelbywmccarty

Yes that was a dumb statement. He is going to be good. Could see it at end of playoffs.

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He wasn't good until the playoffs.

Average means like the 15th best small forward. I don't think he's better than 15th best.

Lol..I would never get any of you guys as my GM if you wouldn't pick up Iggy when he's needed on this team. With him we are a playoff team. This guy will help us get to the playoffs while our young group grow, guys like Rivers, Ad and whatever rookie being brought in. That's how guys like Duncan, Parker and rondo succeeded. If we keep on losing we will stay with high picks, leading to raw rookies drafted with them high picks and keep waiting for them to develop and pushing our break out season back. Why can't we make that jump now with Iggy? Perfect fit, I just hope it gets done so some can just deal with it. ;)

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

I would give Iggy the contract to help build the culture and show AD we are serious about building a winner. Our real window will be in AD's second contract, but we gotta get him to sign it first

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YES.
plus it helps fill the seats and build up the fan base.
And the winning - even though no championships are won - helps bring in better free agents in phase 2 of the AD era.

Building for the long term means realizing that players come and go.

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Originally Posted by PrimeTimeWhoDat

If Andre Iguodala can play small forward at 6'6" 207, why can't Tyreke Evans play the position at 6'6" 220?

Iggy: age 29, 6'11" wingspan & 8'9.25" reach
Career stats: 15.1 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 4.9 apg, 1.8 spg

Tyreke: age 23, 6'11.25" wingspan & 8'8" reach
Career stats: 17.5 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 4.8 apg, 1.4 spg

I think they look pretty similar stat wise with Tyreke scoring more and Iggy rebounding more. Tyreke mostly played guard, so by moving to small forward his rebounding numbers would likely increase. I would rather add the younger player with room to improve instead of an older player that will not improve much if at all.

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You make an interesting (and compelling) proposition, but I don't know enough about basketball to give reasons why it wouldn't work. But I will say this; Monty seems to be enamored with length. He had a 6'6" PG and a 6'9" SF starting for him last season. Not that they were great players and they seemed to be the best options given the other players on the roster. On the other hand, GV did play some at the 3 at the end of the season, so maybe you're onto something.

After the season Iggy had last year, he's not worth a huge contract. He was average last season outside of the playoff series against the Warriors. Didn't shoot well from the arc, awful FT shooter and overall his defense wasn't up to his usual standards. Now he's gonna be 30 when the season starts and he deserves a big time contract of 11+ million? I don't think so, especially when athleticism is a huge part of his success and that's not getting any better. If he can regain his form from the previous season then he is worth a big contract, but he won't put the team over the top. If Gordon isn't healthy, then signing someone like Iggy is useless.

I'd rather Martell Webster honestly.

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Originally Posted by AD23forMVP

I'd rather Martell Webster honestly.

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Me too. Cheaper, younger, can flat out shoot and a good fit.

To get max out of Ryno, the SF and SG need to be able to hit 3's as well. Having a SF who can't shoot makes it easy to cheat on Ryno from beyond the arc.

If we are trying to win as many games as possible as soon as possible signing Iggy makes sense. I prefer to take more time plus I think Iggy will be far too expensive.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

If we are trying to win as many games as possible as soon as possible signing Iggy makes sense. I prefer to take more time plus I think Iggy will be far too expensive.

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Iggy will help us win games in the short term, but long-term doesn't do anything for me.

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Originally Posted by jsl05

He wasn't good until the playoffs.

Average means like the 15th best small forward. I don't think he's better than 15th best.

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The dude is nice... maybe a lil stiff but is still nice

To win championships we can't be cheap... And if we can't get Iggy who else do you think would want to play here

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Originally Posted by Pelicans78

Iggy will help us win games in the short term, but long-term doesn't do anything for me.

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I agree. I don't want quick minimal success I want big time sustainable success. To me that comes with long term patience and planning.

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Originally Posted by tyler

To win championships we can't be cheap... And if we can't get Iggy who else do you think would want to play here

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Any decent SF who wants start in the NBA. Not hard to upgrade that position on this team. Quit being self-defeating.

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Originally Posted by tyler

To win championships we can't be cheap... And if we can't get Iggy who else do you think would want to play here

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And as a small market we can't be frivolously either.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

And as a small market we can't be frivolously either.

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I agree. We should have learned our lesson at the Peja signing. He filled a big need at the time but at what cost? I wouldn't mind signing Iggy to 8-9 million a season, but that's it. We still don't have an established core yet. Davis is developing and Gordon is unreliable right now.

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Originally Posted by Pelicans78

I agree. We should have learned our lesson at the Peja signing. He filled a big need at the time but at what cost? I wouldn't mind signing Iggy to 8-9 million a season, but that's it. We still don't have an established core yet. Davis is developing and Gordon is unreliable right now.

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I think this is the main thing I see people seem to ignore about this team. Outside of Davis you have any consistency about our core. Honestly we still don't know what Davis will or won't be. The next guy I see spoken about as part of our core is Anderson and I've seen several fans (me included) that for the right trade would deal Anderson.

I agree if we can get Iguodala for around that price I'm all in but an 8 figure a year deal just seems too much for a team with so many question marks.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

I think this is the main thing I see people seem to ignore about this team. Outside of Davis you have any consistency about our core. Honestly we still don't know what Davis will or won't be. The next guy I see spoken about as part of our core is Anderson and I've seen several fans (me included) that for the right trade would deal Anderson.

I agree if we can get Iguodala for around that price I'm all in but an 8 figure a year deal just seems too much for a team with so many question marks.

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Iguodala will make everyone of the young guys better and help establish a winning culture.

The OKC model for building a team was luck. The Miami model requires a beach, Cubans, and an established star.

You have to believe the Spurs model is what we're following, and Duncan benefitted a ton from vets and the establishment of a winning culture early in his career. Winning is something you learn how to do from winners.

How does this young team develop that if they don't bring in the right vets that can lead and give them a realist playoff goal to compete for every year?

Tis is my biggest problem with Gordon (other than injuries). At $15m a year he's not a leader and doesn't establish culture.

I'd give Iggy whatever it takes. Iggy, Gordon, and Ryno will all create cap space when they expire for us to build around AD and the other young guys when the championship window really opens up. But over the next 3 years, the young guys need to learn what it means to play meaningful spring basketball, competing for a spot in the playoffs.

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Originally Posted by Pelicans78

I agree. We should have learned our lesson at the Peja signing. He filled a big need at the time but at what cost? I wouldn't mind signing Iggy to 8-9 million a season, but that's it. We still don't have an established core yet. Davis is developing and Gordon is unreliable right now.

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??? Peja <<<< Iggy ... This is no comparison, Peja was nothing be a good jump shooter who definitely received to much money for his skills. Iggy is an all around guy who does everything. C'mon man it would be great to sign him for 8-9 million but that's unrealistic, it'll be a surprise if he accepts an offer that cheap.