Pelican draft workouts

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Originally Posted by NSFW

Burke's combine numbers were pretty much the same as Vasquez. Do we really want another point guard that can't guard opposing guards?

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Have you seen Blake Griffin vert numbers?

Miles Plumlee killed the combine before Zellers.

Burke killed Derrick Rose in agility test. So is Vasquez on par with Rose?

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Originally Posted by All Metro

So lets draft Saric, and wait 9 years for him to hit his prime.

:hihi:

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Yeah im sure Dallas is regretting all those seasons with Dirk hitting above 20 ppg 9 rebounds before he hit his prime in 05. Who wants to wait for that?

http://www.bourbonstreetshots.com/20...t-dario-saric/

Please read this. It clears up so much. I know that practically none of us have watched a game of his, so we're scared. That's normal. I have no doubt in my mind we are taking him. Monty's and Dell's comments have all come together. Don't be upset when we take Saric.

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Originally Posted by saintsinNO

Absolutely flawed. No argument there. My simple point is a lot of people get carried away. Paul wasn't 'Paul' at this point either...I mean Marvin Williams and Bogut went before him and really almost Felton. Just saying at this point I believe he is as good a prospect as Paul was and I feel because he isn't 'Paul' right now some lose sight of that, but I see what you are saying.

The other thing that drives me nuts is when people really say he can't be much better that GV. To me that's insane. GV is a lot of empty numbers, Burke is a winner ala CP. I really like the kid, but all these guys are flawed.

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Edit, misunderstood orginal post; apology.

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Originally Posted by saintsinNO

Absolutely flawed. No argument there. My simple point is a lot of people get carried away. Paul wasn't 'Paul' at this point either...I mean Marvin Williams and Bogut went before him and really almost Felton. Just saying at this point I believe he is as good a prospect as Paul was and I feel because he isn't 'Paul' right now some lose sight of that, but I see what you are saying.

The other thing that drives me nuts is when people really say he can't be much better that GV. To me that's insane. GV is a lot of empty numbers, Burke is a winner ala CP. I really like the kid, but all these guys are flawed.

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The huge difference between Chris Paul and Trey Burke is their speed. It's clear Trey Burke is not fast or quick for a PG prospect. It doesn't matter if he has a killer instinct or can knock down shots if he can't guard any other top guards. The main knock against GV isn't his offense, it's his defense. GV doesn't have the speed or lateral quickness to guard other guards. If GV had speed and lateral quickness then we wouldn't be talking about getting another PG because he's way above average on the offensive side of the ball.

Listen to Dell and Monty about how much defense matters.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

Saying two guys are comparable in skill and play style isn't saying one is as good as the other. However a lot of people are trying to make the case that this skill level and style won't pan out in the league when the best player at the position plays it the same way.

Like I've said before the spacing in college is different because there's no 3 sec rule and most college bigs can't shoot. So beating your man rarely leads to open lane to the basket. I don't think anybody is calling Burke a clone of Paul(although IMO he's the closest I've seen since) or that he has Wall, Rose, Westbrook, Lawson type quickness, but with his combo of his physical ability(which seem to be vastly underrated), skill, and IQ he has the potential to be special.

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I think we're saying pretty much the same thing.

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Originally Posted by BallSoHard

I've seen you argue with 42 and have never seen you concede any point ever. So i'm going to end this with an agree to disagree because if you think what i said was "aboslutely flawed" then i'm not sure we can get to a back to a point where we can agree to anything. Paul had flaws (and still does) and people forget this. So does Burke.

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The part where I said "absolutely flawed," as you indicated, and also said "no argument there" would be conceding a point. You're arguing with yourself, I was agreeing with you.

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Originally Posted by NSFW

The huge difference between Chris Paul and Trey Burke is their speed. It's clear Trey Burke is not fast or quick for a PG prospect. It doesn't matter if he has a killer instinct or can knock down shots if he can't guard any other top guards. The main knock against GV isn't his offense, it's his defense. GV doesn't have the speed or lateral quickness to guard other guards. If GV had speed and lateral quickness then we wouldn't be talking about getting another PG because he's way above average on the offensive side of the ball.

Listen to Dell and Monty about how much defense matters.

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...this is exactly my point. From what?!

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Originally Posted by saintsinNO

The part where I said "absolutely flawed," as you indicated, and also said "no argument there" would be conceding a point. You're arguing with yourself, I was agreeing with you.

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I must have misunderstood. You have my apology I'll go back and edit.

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Originally Posted by NSFW

The huge difference between Chris Paul and Trey Burke is their speed. It's clear Trey Burke is not fast or quick for a PG prospect. It doesn't matter if he has a killer instinct or can knock down shots if he can't guard any other top guards. The main knock against GV isn't his offense, it's his defense. GV doesn't have the speed or lateral quickness to guard other guards. If GV had speed and lateral quickness then we wouldn't be talking about getting another PG because he's way above average on the offensive side of the ball.

Listen to Dell and Monty about how much defense matters.

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I've always said that Burke was faster than Paul. Lateral I agree Paul has a slight edge but straight line speed I think Trey is faster. This is assuming he can't guard anybody when he held Michael Carter-Williams, Peyton Siva, and Russ Smith all very fast and quick guards. The defense thing is over blown. It's based more on effort and technique. You would rather have him do it on every position a la Oladipo or Craft, but neither of those guys had to carry the offensive load like Burke. Few players did in one of if not the top conference.

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Originally Posted by BallSoHard

I think we're saying pretty much the same thing.

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Yeah I'm coming to that understanding as well.:hihi:

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Originally Posted by BallSoHard

I must have misunderstood. You have my apology I'll go back and edit.

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No need or worries. I see what you are saying and I mostly agree with you, as well.

There is nearly no chance we take Burke. No point to argue about him.

Dell and Monty don't hate him because of his defense like I thought; we're bringing him in for a workout. It's just that Saric is #1 on their big board and he will be available.

I think you and Dathrone see a little higher upside than I do but the general evaluation of his college skills are the same.

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Originally Posted by jsl05

There is nearly no chance we take Burke. No point to argue about him.

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What proof do you have?

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Originally Posted by BallSoHard

I think you and Dathrone see a little higher upside than I do but the general evaluation of his college skills are the same.

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Agreed. Either way, I personally would very much like Burke on our team with #6. Really I am warming up to just about any of the top guys except MCW, but I would pass on Saric at #6 as well.

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Originally Posted by BallSoHard

What proof do you have?

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The fact that we are in love with Saric. Go back and listen to Monty and Dell and Chad Ford. Everything makes sense now.

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Originally Posted by jsl05

There is nearly no chance we take Burke. No point to argue about him.

Dell and Monty don't hate him because of his defense like I thought; we're bringing him in for a workout. It's just that Saric is #1 on their big board and he will be available.

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Where did you get this from?

For this of you that don't like Saric despite the fact that you know barely anything about him, this is a must read. It's not a piece that is meant to sway your opinion of him; it's an in-depth FAQ.

http://www.bourbonstreetshots.com/20...t-dario-saric/

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Originally Posted by jsl05

The fact that we are in love with Saric. Go back and listen to Monty and Dell and Chad Ford. Everything makes sense now.

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And you don't believe they could just be evaluating talent that may fall to them ? To say there's no chance is not very good wording. If they have 5 guys they're interested in you better believe they're going to get a close look at all 5.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

Where did you get this from?

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I had started gathering after reading Chad Ford's, Chris Miles's, and McNamara's tweets. It just makes total sense based on what I've heard Dell and Monty say. Please read the link.

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Originally Posted by BallSoHard

And you don't believe they could just be evaluating talent that may fall to them ? To say there's no chance is not very good wording. If they have 5 guys they're interested in you better believe they're going to get a close look at all 5.

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They are, but I don't think Burke is in their top 5.

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Originally Posted by jsl05

For this of you that don't like Saric despite the fact that you know barely anything about him, this is a must read. It's not a piece that is meant to sway your opinion of him; it's an in-depth FAQ.

http://www.bourbonstreetshots.com/20...t-dario-saric/

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I wouldnt say he is a sure thing yet (great article btw). I think they would like to have both, but they will have to decide between the two come draft time. Ive been more skeptical of Burke than most, but i see him and Saric as 1a 1b.

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Originally Posted by JJackisangry

I wouldnt say he is a sure thing yet (great article btw). I think they would like to have both, but they will have to decide between the two come draft time. Ive been more skeptical of Burke than most, but i see him and Saric as 1a 1b.

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Ok. I'll take that. I'm going too far with the "no way they take Burke."

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Originally Posted by jsl05

There is nearly no chance we take Burke. No point to argue about him.

Dell and Monty don't hate him because of his defense like I thought; we're bringing him in for a workout. It's just that Saric is #1 on their big board and he will be available.

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And you know all of this how?

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Originally Posted by jsl05

I had started gathering after reading Chad Ford's, Chris Miles's, and McNamara's tweets. It just makes total sense based on what I've heard Dell and Monty say. Please read the link.

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So you are basing this "fact" on Ford answering a chat question that they "could" pick him and Miles (extension of Fletcher who jumps on every international player in every draft in an attempt to look smart) and MM who may or may not have inside information on whether the team will pick him?

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

So you are basing this "fact" on Ford answering a chat question that they "could" pick him and Miles (extension of Fletcher who jumps on every international player in every draft in an attempt to look smart) and MM who may or may not have inside information on whether the team will pick him?

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If you read later in the thread, He concedes the point on his wording.

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

And you know all of this how?

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I don't. I just have an extremely strong feeling about it.

Chad Ford has said that "scouts who REALLY know Europe don't see much difference between Saric and Porter." Dell would qualify; heck, he played for the team Saric played for. Ford has said that the Pelicans are one of the 2-3 strongest suitors for Saric. Look, that's not all, just a small sample size. Read the link.

From everything I have objectively gathered, I am fairly certain Saric will be the pick.

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Originally Posted by jsl05

http://www.bourbonstreetshots.com/20...t-dario-saric/

Please read this. It clears up so much. I know that practically none of us have watched a game of his, so we're scared. That's normal. I have no doubt in my mind we are taking him. Monty's and Dell's comments have all come together. Don't be upset when we take Saric.

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I really enjoyed that article, thanks.

looks like the only way we don't take Saric is if otto porter, oladipo or mclemore fall, which they won't, we will most likely take saric, allowing us to have 2 combo guards at PG and SG since saric is such a great passer, i expect to see a rivers/gordon or tyreke/gordon or rivers/tyreke backcourt combo with Saric at SF, looks like now all we have to do is package GV and Lopez for a starting center.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

http://youtu.be/Hs8hjC3mkiI

This is the best video I've seen that shows off Burke's quicks.

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A pity he'll only be as good as Jameer Nelson.

At best.

Because that's what a ceiling means. At BEST...

My God, what a funky bunch of comparisons. I've seen Burke called another Vasquez, another Travis Best, and now a poor man's Jameer Nelson.

Edit: I mean, look at what he does at 2:30 to get open, create space. That's an NBA move right there. It's almost exactly like the move Kemba Walker did versus Pittsburgh a couple years ago. And his quickness was never challenged.

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

A pity he'll only be as good as Jameer Nelson.

At best.

Because that's what a ceiling means. At BEST...

My God, what a funky bunch of comparisons. I've seen Burke called another Vasquez, another Travis Best, and now a poor man's Jameer Nelson.

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Agreed. I don't see how anyone who has watched the kid play can say these things. Not quicker or faster than GV??? If GV were Burke's size he couldn't play in the NBDL. Burke is a baller.

GV was guarded by Kendrick Perkins and was contained....PERKINS...KENDRICK PERKINS...and could not beat him.

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Originally Posted by jsl05

I don't. I just have an extremely strong feeling about it.

Chad Ford has said that "scouts who REALLY know Europe don't see much difference between Saric and Porter." Dell would qualify; heck, he played for the team Saric played for. Ford has said that the Pelicans are one of the 2-3 strongest suitors for Saric. Look, that's not all, just a small sample size. Read the link.

From everything I have objectively gathered, I am fairly certain Saric will be the pick.

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Dell played for that team for one season 15 years ago. I think it is a weak argument in the article that he may still have a great relationship with the team.

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

Dell played for that team for one season 15 years ago. I think it is a weak argument in the article that he may still have a great relationship with the team.

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That's not the point. The point is that he knows that league and actually knows a little about the team.

I see this thread has turned into another "this is my favorite prospect we should take him and yours stinks" thread. Anyone who claims to know who we will take on draft night is wrong. You can be 99% sure, but I can't say for 100% sure that we won't take Jeff Withey with the 6th.

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

A pity he'll only be as good as Jameer Nelson.

At best.

Because that's what a ceiling means. At BEST...

My God, what a funky bunch of comparisons. I've seen Burke called another Vasquez, another Travis Best, and now a poor man's Jameer Nelson.

Edit: I mean, look at what he does at 2:30 to get open, create space. That's an NBA move right there. It's almost exactly like the move Kemba Walker did versus Pittsburgh a couple years ago. And his quickness was never challenged.

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Hey now! I gave you Mark Price... and nobody thinks Kemba Walker is the answer to anything, but people here think Trey Burke is, hence the higher level of scrutiny.

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Originally Posted by Mr. West

I see this thread has turned into another "this is my favorite prospect we should take him and yours stinks" thread. Anyone who claims to know who we will take on draft night is wrong. You can be 99% sure, but I can't say for 100% sure that we won't take Jeff Withey with the 6th.

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I don't think it's so much that, but I would hope everyone could agree that to say Burke's quickness and speed is on par with GV is utterly absurd.

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Originally Posted by jsl05

http://www.bourbonstreetshots.com/20...t-dario-saric/

Please read this. It clears up so much. I know that practically none of us have watched a game of his, so we're scared. That's normal. I have no doubt in my mind we are taking him. Monty's and Dell's comments have all come together. Don't be upset when we take Saric.

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Thanks for this, great piece.

This

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The biggest red flag offensively across all leagues is his three point shooting. Whether it is in tournaments, in national competition, or in regional leagues, Saric hovers between 30 and 34 percent from deep. He takes about two per game and his form looks fine, he is just very inconsistent. And of course, the biggest worry is how will he perform against NBA caliber athletes on the defensive end? There is no real data available to predict that, but I will say that I have seen a lot of readers give the benefit of the doubt to prospects or free agent targets that they like, saying that they believe in Monty’s ability to teach defense and improve their capabilities within a team concept. I noticed far fewer people giving this kid that benefit of the doubt, and I’ve got to say that it feels like there is a lot of Euro bias.

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scares he heck out of me though. :hihi:

I'm so susceptible. I read that article on BSS and now I want Saric.

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Originally Posted by DefensiveMind

Hey now! I gave you Mark Price... and nobody thinks Kemba Walker is the answer to anything, but people here think Trey Burke is, hence the higher level of scrutiny.

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I think Burke could be special for reasons that have nothing to do with something you can measure or find a stat for.

Saric impresses me most with his rebounding and passing while Burke impresses me with his scoring ability. I've really warmed up to both of these guys.

KCP will be the pick, unless McLemore or Porter fall.

The pels are blowing smoke and the rest of the league believes they'll stick with rivers as their future PG. I dont buy it....Demps is trying to create a bidding war for any of the available players at 6. But If no bites, then I expect the team to pick BPA...even if its another PG.

Really warmed up to KCP lately. Like his stroke and how he can pull up from deep. Surprisingly quick and fast for his size. Likes to board. Good defensive potential.

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Originally Posted by The JNR

I'm so susceptible. I read that article on BSS and now I want Saric.

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Things like this make me warm a bit to him:

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Perhaps more important, Saric has the drive to get better. “He’s a workaholic,” a scout said. “He lives in the gym. With his basketball IQ, you’re talking about a kid with All-Star potential.”

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Hearing Croatia's Dario Saric leaning toward withdrawing from the NBA Draft. Has until Jun 17 to make it official.

— Chad Ford (@chadfordinsider) June 6, 2013

Saric is projected as a lottery pick by most teams.But wants to get another year of experience in Europe.

— Chad Ford (@chadfordinsider) June 6, 2013

I don't think for everything we say has to be supported by a quote from Dell or Monty. This is a forumn to discuss your opinions. I don't think they will draft Burke at least not at 6. I totally believe that if one of the big three ain't there (McLemore, Porter, Olidipo) we will trade out of that spot.

My reasoning for no Burke is because Rivers is going to be given a chance to win the spot and I think they would want a veteran to back him up.

I could see them grabbing Saric at 6 if Dell really likes the guy and can't trade down a few to gather more picks or players.

I don't want either Burke or Saric, I want KCP and I'd be willing to pick him at 6. I'd like to trade down a few spots and get him but if that's the player you want and can't make a trade down to their range that you think they should go, then do like the NFL and get him.

But to clarify, if we did select either player or any player (cause I don't care for Len either). I will proudly root for them. Go Pelicans!!

Well if Saric withdraws, the talent pool just shrunk again (between he and Marcus Smart). If they're as lukewarm on Burke as some seem to think, then 6 looks like a rough spot to be picking.

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Originally Posted by tdcreator

I don't think for everything we say has to be supported by a quote from Dell or Monty. This is a forumn to discuss your opinions. I don't think they will draft Burke at least not at 6. I totally believe that if one of the big three ain't there (McLemore, Porter, Olidipo) we will trade out of that spot.

My reasoning for no Burke is because Rivers is going to be given a chance to win the spot and I think they would want a veteran to back him up.

I could see them grabbing Saric at 6 if Dell really likes the guy and can't trade down a few to gather more picks or players.

I don't want either Burke or Saric, I want KCP and I'd be willing to pick him at 6. I'd like to trade down a few spots and get him but if that's the player you want and can't make a trade down to their range that you think they should go, then do like the NFL and get him.

But to clarify, if we did select either player or any player (cause I don't care for Len either). I will proudly root for them. Go Pelicans!!

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u want KCP for SG correct? what would u do with gordon? trade?

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Originally Posted by tdcreator

I don't think for everything we say has to be supported by a quote from Dell or Monty. This is a forumn to discuss your opinions. I don't think they will draft Burke at least not at 6. I totally believe that if one of the big three ain't there (McLemore, Porter, Olidipo) we will trade out of that spot.

My reasoning for no Burke is because Rivers is going to be given a chance to win the spot and I think they would want a veteran to back him up.

I could see them grabbing Saric at 6 if Dell really likes the guy and can't trade down a few to gather more picks or players.

I don't want either Burke or Saric, I want KCP and I'd be willing to pick him at 6. I'd like to trade down a few spots and get him but if that's the player you want and can't make a trade down to their range that you think they should go, then do like the NFL and get him.

But to clarify, if we did select either player or any player (cause I don't care for Len either). I will proudly root for them. Go Pelicans!!

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So really what you mean is, "so Rivers would be given a better chance to win the starting spot", right? :hihi: