So essentially you're a fan boy as this is an emotional argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nola Hornet
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So essentially you're a fan boy as this is an emotional argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nola Hornet
That is soooo 20 hours agoQuote:
Originally Posted by WhyHornetsWhy
Sure, they aren't presently constructed to win the title. I agree there, but only there. First, you're projecting Collison as an All-Star. There are a lot of players standing in front of him for that. The primary thing standing in front of him for that are his turnovers. Second, who would expect that they would stay the same, whether they trade Paul or not. They can get better by trading expiring deals, Okafor, even Collison himself. The equation isn't "keep Paul = suck". It's more like "maximize assets + minimized liabilities = wins". Unfortunately, some fail to understand the difference between a legit starting PG and a future HOF PG.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hornets78
1. Chris Paul's trade value plummets if we keep him for another year and finish out of the playoffs. Everybody will know that he's going to leave us at that point and we will get Speedy Claxton in return.Quote:
Originally Posted by chubbs91
2. We can't do anything in the next year that would change Chris Paul's mind.
3. If we keep Chris Paul we're done. He's leaving and we'll get peanuts for him. If we trade Chris Paul we can get a quality, cheap big and be a lean mean fighting machine in 2 or 3 seasons.
I think if you got offered something like this it would be a hard package to turn down as it brings in so much young talent. We clear the worst of our contracts (I know Posey is still there) and bring in Expirings with the potential to add so much youth in this up coming draft.
Nets trade - #3 #27 Williams Harris Yi
Recieve Paul & Okafor.
Pacers trade - Murphy #10
Recieve - Harris
Hornets trade - Paul Okafor
Recieve - #3 #10 #27 Williams Yi Murphy
Quote:
Originally Posted by thefuture
5 hours and 37 minutes ago...and counting.
oh so you have spoken to chris paul about his future? thats pretty coolQuote:
Originally Posted by Oysterman
Some also fail to realize that being left with nothing in 2013 is not better than possibly aquiring two all stars and another role player.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saints Fan in A
We'll be a lottery team for years to come if we keep Paul.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nola Hornet
If we trade him for young big/s and pick/s we could make the playoffs next season.
NIH is 100% right about Lopez being exactly what we need. I'm not sure we'd be able to pry him away from the Nets along with the 3rd pick though.
That's sodomy of the first order. You have to let the Nets keep #10 and probably Yi too. Not only for fair value, but when he was drafted his handlers supposedly made a big deal about him going to a team with a large local Chinese population, not Vietnamese.Quote:
Originally Posted by ryan2709
You really think Paul wants to stay in a small market where he's had a whopping two playoff appearances in five seasons? Possibly six with next season. Why would a player want to waste some of his best years in a no win situation when you see the mistake a player like Garnett made?Quote:
Originally Posted by chubbs91
what 2 allstars are we acquiring?Quote:
Originally Posted by NIH
Continue to live with doomsday assumptions. If CP3 didn't want to be here, he didn't have to re-sign to begin with. Whoa is us, said the collective Hornets fan...Quote:
Originally Posted by NIH
Fire up that Crystal Ball. What else do we have in store?Quote:
Originally Posted by NIH
Anybody that has a brain can see the writing on the wall. CJ Paul was griping as early as the 2008/2009 season.Quote:
Originally Posted by chubbs91
Plus I trust that Harvey is correct with his beliefs that CP3 will be gone.
You do realize that our front office has the ability to ASK CP3 how he feels as well, right? Chris may have already let it be known that he would prefer to be moved to a larger market since we're so hamstrung.
He re-signed at the absolute pinnacle of this franchise's success in New Orleans.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saints Fan in A
We've fallen further than any team in the NBA since then.
Our sitation in summer 2008=/=now. He also signed a short deal like his peers did to keep his options open in the future.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saints Fan in A
Lopez + a top 3 pickQuote:
Originally Posted by chubbs91
I also said possibly.
my thing is why is everyone so confident he is leaving. is it because of speculation that has been talked about endless of times for a year on this board that some people now take as fact? or was it chris paul's clown of a brother who thinks he is bigger then he really is and likes to run his mouth?Quote:
Originally Posted by NIH
I wont argue that he is upset and I wont argue that he has said things that make people feel that way, but still no one truly knows.
CJ Paul ha that dude is a joke. Who would he be if Chris Paul wasnt his brother? that dude is lucky he has an ounce of relevance. He loves to run his mouth.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oysterman
Why are you so confident that the moron who created this mess can get us out?Quote:
Originally Posted by chubbs91
Translation = speculation, what ifs, could be's and who knows...Quote:
Originally Posted by Oysterman
But he also could have told them he likes it here. Too many assume that they can see the future 2-3 years from now and as New Orleans' fans, it has to be doomsday. Plain and simple - NO ONE give away superstars. Unless we get a huge package, it would be suicide to trade the face of the franchise.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oysterman
How about, wasn't offered?Quote:
Originally Posted by NIH
Yet, you want to trust him to orchestrate a trade to unload our franchise player for building blocks for the future?Quote:
Originally Posted by NIH
all he has to do is pull the trigger on a great package, we're in control here, for now of course.Quote:
Originally Posted by HORNETSFAN
I know. But as the Russian grows desperate to make a splash they could very well make Lopez available.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saints Fan in A
If we ride Paul out and he doesn't resign with us we are looking at a 4 win team that following season. If Nets come out and finally add Lopez to this deal and another good player (Lee, Yi, CDR, Williams) 3rd pick, I don't see how anybody could say we can't have a competitive team. if you have a foundation at the 2 most important positions 1: Collision 5: Lopez, you are set up nicely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nola Hornet
PG: Collison
SG: Williams or Lee + Thornton
SF: George or Babbit (11th pick)
PF: West / Favors
C: Lopez
That is a good young team that in a few years could be dangerous if the draft picks live up to the hype. it's just a matter of finding a way to make the salaries match to get a deal like that. which means Prob have to add in Harris to the deal, but if it gets us all those other players it might be worth it.
I not so confident but i try and be an optimist. I wished the hornets would have cleaned house and replaced all front office positions. I hope that is Chouest does ever buy the team he will replace some of the positions.Quote:
Originally Posted by NIH
I will say there is a 75% chance Paul will walk in 2 years. This time next summer, then entire league will know that, thus Paul trade value will rapidly decline.
This roster is a mess. We have a 2nd year PG who is more than capable of running the show and being a legit point gaurd in this league. Trade Chris Paul, get Lopez + Harris/Lee/Williams, get rid of Okafor and get the #3 pick in this draft?!? There is no way we don't pull the trigger.
If Bower would pass up on a deal like that somebody should Slap him. We are basically giving up Paul/Okafor, for a legit Starting Center, solid back up pg or sg, and a top 3 pick. Not to mention our #11 of pick the we still have. Chris Paul is not worth more than that!
Getting more than fair value for Paul is contingent on 2 things. The new owner of the Nets having slightly different motivations than the average owner, and being able to use LeBron to up Paul's trade value. Without that there is no potential that they call us back and up the offer from Harris to Lopez. I don't see why people are so reluctant to see that there are packages >= Paul besides another top 5 player.Quote:
Originally Posted by NIH
Assuming Bower stays on through the season, what can Chouest's new guy really do? He'll be walking into a lockout and then will have one year to right years worth of mistakes made by Bower.Quote:
Originally Posted by chubbs91
The current roster as it is right now is a 30-35 win team.
The roster with the propose trade with the Nets that we have been throwing around is an 45-50 win team THIS UPCOMING SEASON with a foundation with unlimited potential to grow.
I highly doubt the Nets would even consider throwing in Lopez, Lee, and the #3 in the deal. It's going to be an either the #3 or lopez at best if they consider Lopez in the deal. Even then, That lineup lacks a player who could take you to the next level. West will be gone once his deal is up and that looks like a lottery lineup to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by crazed2apoint
All these definitive statements that people base their opinions on when none of it is in fact, fact. The "lockout" as if it is a certainty. CP leaving, as if it is a certainty. Why am I still debating this?
Ok, here's the deal. I just saw CP on ESPN, and now I have a different mindset. Dudes a top 3 player in the world. Keep him here unless we get Lebron or DWade back for him. If he wants to walk in two years or whatever, let him walk. But keep him here for atleast those 2 years.
I just dont see how we could trade CP3 without getting Lopez.
You ask the Nets whether they would rather CP3/Lebron/Okafor or Harris/Lopez/#3.
Its easy move fo them in my mind. Lopez is good but not worth not getting CP3 and Lebron from their point-of-view, which is why we need to press them for everything they got.
The Nets already offered Harris and the 3rd pick, they could easily swap Lopez in there for Harris. Lopez + the 3rd pick is still great value along with our 11th pick. West will probably not opt out in a lockout year either, as someone said in another thread he will probably extend. He's a 30 + yr old PF who's slowly leaving his prime. He won't be getting major value in FA.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nola Hornet
The bottom line is this
Collison
MT5
11th pick
West/Cousins or Favors
Lopez
>>>>
Paul
MT5
11th Pick
West
Okafor
you have to win some before you can be considered a top 3 player. one playoff series win in 5 years isn't impressive. players like LeBron are harassed for not winning titles let alone advancing to the 2nd round once in five years.Quote:
Originally Posted by CP3forMVP
Easily? A young All-Star center can easily be swapped in place of a guy they are trying to replace?
Well if that is your opinion of the players that is fine. i feel that in a 1 or 2 years it would be a dangerous team. And you're right about them not giving away that much. I should have said Lopez, Harris (who is a big contract they most likely don't want, hints the reason he was the player they offered) and the 3rd & 27th picks is the only way i do this deal. Lopez & 3rd pick being the key parts. the rest is optional to a point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nola Hornet
Sure, as the clock ticks towards July 1st the Nets will feel more pressure to make a deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saints Fan in A
A jump shooting big will always have value.
And you think that posterchild for incompetence could identify a great package? Really?Quote:
Originally Posted by NIH
So which is it, you think Paul is too valuable to ever to be traded or you think Lopez is too valuable to be thrown into a deal for him?
Sure thing. To get Lebron, they are going to trade the one chip they have in Lopez for a primary ball handler when Lebron is already a primary ball handler?Quote:
Originally Posted by NIH
I think it doesn't make sense for either team.Quote:
Originally Posted by NIH
Quote:
Originally Posted by HORNETSFAN
it doesn't take a genius to realize what a great package is in terms of what we have been discussing. like i said, the hornets are in control in terms of this trade. they're not the desperate ones like with the TC trades or the BD trade in 2005.
Neither. I don't see any team including the Nets breaking the bank to bring in Paul regardless of the pressure.Quote:
Originally Posted by NIH
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saints Fan in A
Primary ball handler or not LeBron would much rather play with a fellow superstar than Lopez. The reports about World Wide Wes weren't put out for fun.